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I'm not exactly sure who the others are, actually. However, those names were included as alterate names which have been applied to groups of this kind in the source I used. John Carter ( talk) 13:13, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
This sentence makes no sense and seems out of context with the article topic. If any editor can make it relevant and provide a source it can be placed back in the article.
Hi John, I am a little bit confuse about this article. The term is defined as one coined by John Heelas and the definition of the term is sourced to Chrysiddes. But when I go to Google books and search both of their books for the term Self Religion, there appears to be no such term. Also, when I do a general Google search for the term Self Relgion, there are no search results for that phrase. So I'm a little confused. Are you able to cite some sources where this exact term is used and defined? I see you are an administrator and an experienced Wiki editor and I look forward to working with you, if I can be of some help on this article. Thanks, -- — Kbob • Talk • 02:19, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
This article seems to be built on a weak foundation as Google search yields zero results. I am therefore a bit skeptical about the citations in the article. For this reason I have removed the Chryssides citations because the book is not available for viewing on Google Books or Amazon. It also has a retail cost of $125 and is not available at my library. Because it is relatively un-verifiable I have temporarily removed the citations. If someone has the book and can provide some quotes than we can put the citations back in and include the quotes so editors can feel comfortable that the text has reliable and verifiable sources. Thanks for you help. All the best,-- — Kbob • Talk • 01:56, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
I removed the text below as it is sorely lacking in citations and the few citations given don't appear to mention the subject of the article ie Self Religion.
Several of the groups characterized by whom? as self religions derive (directly or indirectly) from Mind Dynamics (1968-1973), which itself developed from Silva Mind Control. Such derivative groups include: [1]
Hi John, I am a little bit confuse about this article. The term is defined as one coined by John Heelas and the definition of the term is sourced to Chrysiddes. But when I go to Google books and search both of their books for the term Self Religion, there appears to be no such term. Also, when I do a general Google search for the term Self Relgion, there are no search results for that phrase. So I'm a little confused. Are you able to cite some sources where this exact term is used and defined? I see you are an administrator and an experienced Wiki editor and I look forward to working with you, if I can be of some help on this article. Thanks, -- — Kbob • Talk • 02:19, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
This article seems to be built on a weak foundation as Google search yields zero results. I am therefore a bit skeptical about the citations in the article. For this reason I have removed the Chryssides citations because the book is not available for viewing on Google Books or Amazon. It also has a retail cost of $125 and is not available at my library. Because it is relatively un-verifiable I have temporarily removed the citations. If someone has the book and can provide some quotes than we can put the citations back in and include the quotes so editors can feel comfortable that the text has reliable and verifiable sources. Thanks for you help. All the best,-- — Kbob • Talk • 01:56, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
It comes up as zero hits on a general Google search so I'm a bit skeptical that this an OR or coatrack subject even with the sources you have cited above. But I'll put my skepticism in lay away for a while and see if you or any other editors are able to build the article into something notable and in accordance with Wiki guidelines.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 14:47, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Furthermore, and perhaps more significantly, est has served as an important model for other Self-movements. est graduates, together with those otherwise involved with Erhard, have moved on to develop their own seminars.
John Hanley - who had previously worked with Erhard as a trainer for Mind Dynamics and had been an est trainer - helped found Lifespring in 1974. The following year, Stewart Emery, together with Carol Augustus, founded Actualizations. In 1977, est graduate Robert D'Aubigny founded Exegesis in Britain. Then there are other est-influenced movements, including Walter Bellin's Self Transformation (established in Australia in 1979), John Roger's Insight (founded in 1978 with the help of Russell Bishop who had previously worked with Lifespring), Jim Quinn's Lifestream Seminars, the Samuri (mid-1980s), Relationships, and numerous others. It is also likely that yet more trainings have been influenced by Erhard, including Thomas Gregory's the Living Game; Ole Larson's isa; Life Dynamics [...]; and Pat Grove's i am.
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Life Spring and est can, in turn, be traced back to Mind Dynamics, developed by Alexander Everett.
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We describe a contemporary experience [...] provided by [...] Landmark Educational Corporation. Its introductory program [is] called The Landmark Forum [...]. [...] [Bartley's] work includes much of the philosophy that informed the est training, the program that preceded and is precursor to the Forum.
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This whole article seems to be in one way or another based on Heelas. Most of the other references if they talk about the concept of Self-Religion are quoting Heelas. It leaves me wondering "Is self-religion actually a thing?" or is it the supposition of one academic that has been at least in part turned into an article to bolster POV about cults/NRMs etc. Elmmapleoakpine ( talk) 22:07, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
This whole article seems to be in one way or another based on Heelas. Most of the other references if they talk about the concept of Self-Religion are quoting Heelas. It leaves me wondering "Is self-religion actually a thing?" or is it the supposition of one academic that has been at least in part turned into an article to bolster POV about cults/NRMs etc. For example many of the examples given for this are companies and organizations presenting seminars, est, exegesis, lifespring, landmark insight etc. all have a similar purpose related self awarenss, but if you read their articles none claim to be religious or spritual. If there are no rituals, devotional activities or worship, and no claims of being spiritual or religious, how then can one person making a such assertions justify having an article like this Elmmapleoakpine ( talk) 22:21, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
This article was nominated for deletion on 31 August 2017. The result of the discussion was no consensus. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||
|
I'm not exactly sure who the others are, actually. However, those names were included as alterate names which have been applied to groups of this kind in the source I used. John Carter ( talk) 13:13, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
This sentence makes no sense and seems out of context with the article topic. If any editor can make it relevant and provide a source it can be placed back in the article.
Hi John, I am a little bit confuse about this article. The term is defined as one coined by John Heelas and the definition of the term is sourced to Chrysiddes. But when I go to Google books and search both of their books for the term Self Religion, there appears to be no such term. Also, when I do a general Google search for the term Self Relgion, there are no search results for that phrase. So I'm a little confused. Are you able to cite some sources where this exact term is used and defined? I see you are an administrator and an experienced Wiki editor and I look forward to working with you, if I can be of some help on this article. Thanks, -- — Kbob • Talk • 02:19, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
This article seems to be built on a weak foundation as Google search yields zero results. I am therefore a bit skeptical about the citations in the article. For this reason I have removed the Chryssides citations because the book is not available for viewing on Google Books or Amazon. It also has a retail cost of $125 and is not available at my library. Because it is relatively un-verifiable I have temporarily removed the citations. If someone has the book and can provide some quotes than we can put the citations back in and include the quotes so editors can feel comfortable that the text has reliable and verifiable sources. Thanks for you help. All the best,-- — Kbob • Talk • 01:56, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
I removed the text below as it is sorely lacking in citations and the few citations given don't appear to mention the subject of the article ie Self Religion.
Several of the groups characterized by whom? as self religions derive (directly or indirectly) from Mind Dynamics (1968-1973), which itself developed from Silva Mind Control. Such derivative groups include: [1]
Hi John, I am a little bit confuse about this article. The term is defined as one coined by John Heelas and the definition of the term is sourced to Chrysiddes. But when I go to Google books and search both of their books for the term Self Religion, there appears to be no such term. Also, when I do a general Google search for the term Self Relgion, there are no search results for that phrase. So I'm a little confused. Are you able to cite some sources where this exact term is used and defined? I see you are an administrator and an experienced Wiki editor and I look forward to working with you, if I can be of some help on this article. Thanks, -- — Kbob • Talk • 02:19, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
This article seems to be built on a weak foundation as Google search yields zero results. I am therefore a bit skeptical about the citations in the article. For this reason I have removed the Chryssides citations because the book is not available for viewing on Google Books or Amazon. It also has a retail cost of $125 and is not available at my library. Because it is relatively un-verifiable I have temporarily removed the citations. If someone has the book and can provide some quotes than we can put the citations back in and include the quotes so editors can feel comfortable that the text has reliable and verifiable sources. Thanks for you help. All the best,-- — Kbob • Talk • 01:56, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
It comes up as zero hits on a general Google search so I'm a bit skeptical that this an OR or coatrack subject even with the sources you have cited above. But I'll put my skepticism in lay away for a while and see if you or any other editors are able to build the article into something notable and in accordance with Wiki guidelines.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 14:47, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Furthermore, and perhaps more significantly, est has served as an important model for other Self-movements. est graduates, together with those otherwise involved with Erhard, have moved on to develop their own seminars.
John Hanley - who had previously worked with Erhard as a trainer for Mind Dynamics and had been an est trainer - helped found Lifespring in 1974. The following year, Stewart Emery, together with Carol Augustus, founded Actualizations. In 1977, est graduate Robert D'Aubigny founded Exegesis in Britain. Then there are other est-influenced movements, including Walter Bellin's Self Transformation (established in Australia in 1979), John Roger's Insight (founded in 1978 with the help of Russell Bishop who had previously worked with Lifespring), Jim Quinn's Lifestream Seminars, the Samuri (mid-1980s), Relationships, and numerous others. It is also likely that yet more trainings have been influenced by Erhard, including Thomas Gregory's the Living Game; Ole Larson's isa; Life Dynamics [...]; and Pat Grove's i am.
{{
cite book}}
: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |month=
(
help)
Life Spring and est can, in turn, be traced back to Mind Dynamics, developed by Alexander Everett.
{{
cite journal}}
: More than one of |pages=
and |page=
specified (
help)
We describe a contemporary experience [...] provided by [...] Landmark Educational Corporation. Its introductory program [is] called The Landmark Forum [...]. [...] [Bartley's] work includes much of the philosophy that informed the est training, the program that preceded and is precursor to the Forum.
{{
citation}}
: Check |issn=
value (
help); Check date values in: |publication-date=
(
help); More than one of |pages=
and |page=
specified (
help)
This whole article seems to be in one way or another based on Heelas. Most of the other references if they talk about the concept of Self-Religion are quoting Heelas. It leaves me wondering "Is self-religion actually a thing?" or is it the supposition of one academic that has been at least in part turned into an article to bolster POV about cults/NRMs etc. Elmmapleoakpine ( talk) 22:07, 1 August 2017 (UTC)
This whole article seems to be in one way or another based on Heelas. Most of the other references if they talk about the concept of Self-Religion are quoting Heelas. It leaves me wondering "Is self-religion actually a thing?" or is it the supposition of one academic that has been at least in part turned into an article to bolster POV about cults/NRMs etc. For example many of the examples given for this are companies and organizations presenting seminars, est, exegesis, lifespring, landmark insight etc. all have a similar purpose related self awarenss, but if you read their articles none claim to be religious or spritual. If there are no rituals, devotional activities or worship, and no claims of being spiritual or religious, how then can one person making a such assertions justify having an article like this Elmmapleoakpine ( talk) 22:21, 1 August 2017 (UTC)