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"A bizarre incident" sounds like a joke or an urban legend. Do we have any references to it ? Bogdan | Talk 11:19, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Moved here: Bogdan | Talk 22:19, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
The "Downfall" part seems to have been more like vandalized than manipulated. The story about the parrot is referred to on the article about Nicu Ceausescu and linked to this article. So, I guess you should leave it in the article, and make a note that it's most likely an urban legend. Or at least edit the article on Nicu.
The best translation from the Romanian Securitate is Security and the best translation for Siguranţa statului is Safety of the State. The terms are similar, but we should keep the separate in English as they are in Romanian. If for no other reason, to distinguish the Communist secret police for the previous secret police. MihaiC 07:55, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
As Romania got rid of their dictator it was rumoured that many of the personnel in the Securitate Troops came from orphanages, hand picked, trained and indoctrinated into obedient behaviour toward their new "father". In retrospect one could see this as a tragic "blessing" considering the state did not allow abortions and so many children was transformed into psychotic and mentally retarded individuals overpopulating the orphanages in many cities of the country. These children/orphans were later the object of many childless aims for abortion, just to get them out of the life in squalor in these "homes". Lindus 18:19, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
"The Securitate was, in proportion to Romania's population, the largest secret police force in the Eastern bloc." Can we get some numbers to validate this claim? I thought the distinction belonged to the Stasi. 158.143.162.119 12:33, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
This item comes from the log of a radio program: http://www.theworld.org/?q=node/4694
I imagine there is info somewhere online on who has access to what and how one gets it. We should probably mention and link something (not this radio piece, I think, or I'd have done it myself). - Jmabel | Talk 22:39, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
He was born in imperial Russia in a Jewish family and then he got Soviet citizenship. Given all these facts why mention him in this context: "who was actually a Romanian born in Bessarabia"? Even if he got Romanian citizenship (I'm actually not aware of that) or even if by some laws he was considered Romanian even though he was a Jew born in Russia I fail to see why that is even worthy to be mentioned. -- AdrianTM 01:54, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
Btw, ever heard of 3RR? You just broke it. Dahn 02:32, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I've cut two items that need work:
1. (this was added by a banned user):
The remenants of the Securitate nowadays
Many former Securitate members have remained active after the revolution and have shaped many Romanian events in their favor. It is so that they managed not only to evade prosecution for the crimes. Their role in shaping Romanian politics after 1989 has been documented by historian Marius Oprea.
2. (an image caption): The former "Directia 5 securitate of Ceausescu ruin" and now a symbol of the New Romania
What's this supposed to mean? Biruitorul 03:48, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
Here we have a person of Ukrajnean or Russian ethnicity, born in the Russian Empire. Later the person becomes a NKVD general and trusted Soviet agent, sent into an occupied country to organize the feared Securitate. He did not speak Romanian at all when settled in that country. Then we have an user (Dahn) who wants to call this person "Romanian from Bessarabia". Stalin himself would be proud of the confusion. Ridiculous as it is, it wears down all the other users and it ends up Dahn's way. This is how history is written. Dahn plays the same game for Vladimir Tismaneanu's father, incidentally also born in Bessarabia before WWI and trusted member of the PCUS. This one became "Romanian party activist". In matters as serios as the former Soviet Union's colonization attempt of Eastern European countries, the primary citizenship/allegiance is quite relevant and Dahn's sophistry of poor taste. It is irrelevant that these foreigners were eventually awarded local citizenship by the puppet occupation governments.( Icar 15:34, 19 February 2007 (UTC))
It seems to me that the article is quite good down to the discussion of the different branches of the organisation, at which point there is a lot of assertion and no citation or reference. Could we try to add some supporting evidence? I have no doubt that the Securitate were guilty of the things mentioned, but let's do things properly and display the evidence of their wrong-doing. Iain1917 06:34, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
How many people were actually in the Securitate? I've heard estimates as high as 14% of the Romanian population in the 1980s... -- Stlemur 19:50, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
The chapter about subdivisions / organisation of D.S.S. is not accurate and misleading. According to the Decree 130/1972 at 9th of April 1972 the Council of State Security (the coordinating political entity of D.S.S.) has been re-integrated into the Ministry of the Interior (previously became separate as of 1968-04-04) and the D.S.S. (Securitate) has been organised in 6 (six) Directorates (noted with Roman digits - to be precise), as follows:
The Security Troops were not specifically a directorate, but organised as military units (Romanian abbrv. - UM). A particular unit was UM-0640, located in northern Bucharest's suburb of Baneasa, better known as U.S.L.A. (Rom. abbrv. approx. for Unit Specialised in Counter Terrorist Warfare). This unit was charged with counter terrorist activities in the main airports (Otopeni and Baneasa in Bucharest), as well as protection for Embassies and foreign diplomats in Bucharest. In the text, the number given for security troops is a guess at best - the exact numbers are of course highly classified info and are not supposed to be available to the public, even today. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ervantc ( talk • contribs) 15:03, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
Did Securitate had an official logo or emblem, like MFS DDR or KGB? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.190.194.119 ( talk) 13:57, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
I think the number of Stasi-informants (IMs) is scientifically very disputed. (Because the criterias to count the inofficial employers are, to count somebody as an "informant" or unofficial employer...) But all in all in average I don't believe that 1 (unofficial or official) spy per 6 or 7 people is realistic.
I think, German Wikipedia has more realistic numbers: For example at the end of the regime German Wikipedia says, they were approximately 100.000 official and 200.000-250.000 unofficial employers for a population of 16 Million people. This would be approximately one per 40 people. And this seams very much comparable to the number of agents in Romania... Maybe Romania had with 500.000 informants for only 22 Million people even more... And i think, the sources of German Wikipedia (I guess, Federal Commissioner for the Stasi Records or historians employed working for that agency, and so on...) are more scientific and reliable than New York Times. -- Impulsiv. ( talk) 20:54, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
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"A bizarre incident" sounds like a joke or an urban legend. Do we have any references to it ? Bogdan | Talk 11:19, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Moved here: Bogdan | Talk 22:19, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
The "Downfall" part seems to have been more like vandalized than manipulated. The story about the parrot is referred to on the article about Nicu Ceausescu and linked to this article. So, I guess you should leave it in the article, and make a note that it's most likely an urban legend. Or at least edit the article on Nicu.
The best translation from the Romanian Securitate is Security and the best translation for Siguranţa statului is Safety of the State. The terms are similar, but we should keep the separate in English as they are in Romanian. If for no other reason, to distinguish the Communist secret police for the previous secret police. MihaiC 07:55, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
As Romania got rid of their dictator it was rumoured that many of the personnel in the Securitate Troops came from orphanages, hand picked, trained and indoctrinated into obedient behaviour toward their new "father". In retrospect one could see this as a tragic "blessing" considering the state did not allow abortions and so many children was transformed into psychotic and mentally retarded individuals overpopulating the orphanages in many cities of the country. These children/orphans were later the object of many childless aims for abortion, just to get them out of the life in squalor in these "homes". Lindus 18:19, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
"The Securitate was, in proportion to Romania's population, the largest secret police force in the Eastern bloc." Can we get some numbers to validate this claim? I thought the distinction belonged to the Stasi. 158.143.162.119 12:33, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
This item comes from the log of a radio program: http://www.theworld.org/?q=node/4694
I imagine there is info somewhere online on who has access to what and how one gets it. We should probably mention and link something (not this radio piece, I think, or I'd have done it myself). - Jmabel | Talk 22:39, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
He was born in imperial Russia in a Jewish family and then he got Soviet citizenship. Given all these facts why mention him in this context: "who was actually a Romanian born in Bessarabia"? Even if he got Romanian citizenship (I'm actually not aware of that) or even if by some laws he was considered Romanian even though he was a Jew born in Russia I fail to see why that is even worthy to be mentioned. -- AdrianTM 01:54, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
Btw, ever heard of 3RR? You just broke it. Dahn 02:32, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
I've cut two items that need work:
1. (this was added by a banned user):
The remenants of the Securitate nowadays
Many former Securitate members have remained active after the revolution and have shaped many Romanian events in their favor. It is so that they managed not only to evade prosecution for the crimes. Their role in shaping Romanian politics after 1989 has been documented by historian Marius Oprea.
2. (an image caption): The former "Directia 5 securitate of Ceausescu ruin" and now a symbol of the New Romania
What's this supposed to mean? Biruitorul 03:48, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
Here we have a person of Ukrajnean or Russian ethnicity, born in the Russian Empire. Later the person becomes a NKVD general and trusted Soviet agent, sent into an occupied country to organize the feared Securitate. He did not speak Romanian at all when settled in that country. Then we have an user (Dahn) who wants to call this person "Romanian from Bessarabia". Stalin himself would be proud of the confusion. Ridiculous as it is, it wears down all the other users and it ends up Dahn's way. This is how history is written. Dahn plays the same game for Vladimir Tismaneanu's father, incidentally also born in Bessarabia before WWI and trusted member of the PCUS. This one became "Romanian party activist". In matters as serios as the former Soviet Union's colonization attempt of Eastern European countries, the primary citizenship/allegiance is quite relevant and Dahn's sophistry of poor taste. It is irrelevant that these foreigners were eventually awarded local citizenship by the puppet occupation governments.( Icar 15:34, 19 February 2007 (UTC))
It seems to me that the article is quite good down to the discussion of the different branches of the organisation, at which point there is a lot of assertion and no citation or reference. Could we try to add some supporting evidence? I have no doubt that the Securitate were guilty of the things mentioned, but let's do things properly and display the evidence of their wrong-doing. Iain1917 06:34, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
How many people were actually in the Securitate? I've heard estimates as high as 14% of the Romanian population in the 1980s... -- Stlemur 19:50, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
The chapter about subdivisions / organisation of D.S.S. is not accurate and misleading. According to the Decree 130/1972 at 9th of April 1972 the Council of State Security (the coordinating political entity of D.S.S.) has been re-integrated into the Ministry of the Interior (previously became separate as of 1968-04-04) and the D.S.S. (Securitate) has been organised in 6 (six) Directorates (noted with Roman digits - to be precise), as follows:
The Security Troops were not specifically a directorate, but organised as military units (Romanian abbrv. - UM). A particular unit was UM-0640, located in northern Bucharest's suburb of Baneasa, better known as U.S.L.A. (Rom. abbrv. approx. for Unit Specialised in Counter Terrorist Warfare). This unit was charged with counter terrorist activities in the main airports (Otopeni and Baneasa in Bucharest), as well as protection for Embassies and foreign diplomats in Bucharest. In the text, the number given for security troops is a guess at best - the exact numbers are of course highly classified info and are not supposed to be available to the public, even today. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ervantc ( talk • contribs) 15:03, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
Did Securitate had an official logo or emblem, like MFS DDR or KGB? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.190.194.119 ( talk) 13:57, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
I think the number of Stasi-informants (IMs) is scientifically very disputed. (Because the criterias to count the inofficial employers are, to count somebody as an "informant" or unofficial employer...) But all in all in average I don't believe that 1 (unofficial or official) spy per 6 or 7 people is realistic.
I think, German Wikipedia has more realistic numbers: For example at the end of the regime German Wikipedia says, they were approximately 100.000 official and 200.000-250.000 unofficial employers for a population of 16 Million people. This would be approximately one per 40 people. And this seams very much comparable to the number of agents in Romania... Maybe Romania had with 500.000 informants for only 22 Million people even more... And i think, the sources of German Wikipedia (I guess, Federal Commissioner for the Stasi Records or historians employed working for that agency, and so on...) are more scientific and reliable than New York Times. -- Impulsiv. ( talk) 20:54, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Securitate. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 06:48, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 06:22, 9 May 2020 (UTC)