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Hlo sir please read about Indian history. You are spreading false information on Indian history. Your edits are inappropriate please verify them before editing — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aradhyasharma ( talk • contribs) 02:21, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
According to Dictionary of Battles and Sieges: A-E, ed. Tony Jaques, page 49, "Imperial troops were repulsed in northern Punjab at Basoli and Anandpur, and Emperor Aurangzeb sent Generals Wazir Khan and Zaberdast Khan to besiege Sikh Guru Gobind Singh in his stronghold at Anandpur, northeast of Ludhiana. Facing starvation, the Guru capitulated in return for safe passage, but the Sikhs were treacherously attacked at the Sarsa(20 May - 20 December 1704)".
Seeing how the Sikhs capitulated, then the Mughals won this siege. I would suggest Aradhyasharma stop edit warring and bring his concerns here. --
Kansas Bear (
talk)
02:40, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
Sir the battle took place at Anandpur in 1701 .Jagatullah gujar leader was killed see in the source. Please take prompt action. Shah439 ( talk) 05:48, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
I changed the article myself sir no it is your responsibility to secure it Shah439 ( talk) 08:23, 23 April 2015 (UTC) Shah439 ( talk) 08:23, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
I changed the article myself sir no it is your responsibility to secure it Shah439 ( talk) 08:23, 23 April 2015 (UTC) Shah439 ( talk) 08:23, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Shah439 is there any reason why you have resorted to a claim that is not supported by any academic source that I have researched? Are you willing to provide legitimate sources? What you are doing seems to amount to vandalism. Xtremedood ( talk) 05:22, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Sir i have some sources of the battle which claim that it was a Sikh victory. 106.192.155.216 ( talk) 01:50, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
1) [1] 2) [2] 106.192.155.216 ( talk) 02:00, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
References
Sir article has been mismatched with the reference of the battle. It was the battle between Sikhs and Hilly rajas there is no reference of Siege.this was not a siege .See other references also ghumand Chand , jagatullah Chand is not shown in your reference no. 1 which claims the mughals Victory. Change the date if the article also . I m posting some references of the battle also go through them also don't rely on single article Australianammu ( talk) 09:36, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
This article is completely misleading as no such battle took place at all in history. It is widely known that Battle of Anadpur took place (wikipedia page already renamed from first battle of Anandpur) and then the next battle that took place was battle of Nirmohgarh and then battle of Chamkaur took place where respected Guruji wrote Zafarnama and declared victory over Mughal forces. The user Shah439 along with his duplicate accounts have already been blocked for spreading misinformation. I'm marking this page for speedy deletion. Sohcb8 ( talk)
[1] [2] Ghumand leader, jagatullah. Please change the name of the battle It should be the battle of Anandpur 1701... Necessary action to be taken Ama975193 ( talk) 17:37, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
References
According to Dictionary of Battles and Sieges: A-E, ed. Tony Jaques, page 49, "Imperial troops were repulsed in northern Punjab at Basoli and Anandpur, and Emperor Aurangzeb sent Generals Wazir Khan and Zaberdast Khan to besiege Sikh Guru Gobind Singh in his stronghold at Anandpur, northeast of Ludhiana. Facing starvation, the Guru capitulated in return for safe passage, but the Sikhs were treacherously attacked at the Sarsa(20 May - 20 December 1704)". Seeing how the Sikhs capitulated, then the Mughals won this siege.
Also, according to Tony Jaques, there were two battles at Anandpur in 1704 [1], which one does the article reflect?
There was a battle of Anandpur in 1700(Jaques,p.48);
There was another battle of Anandpur in 1701(Jaques,p.48-49);
And this, Bhagat Lakshman Singh, (1995). Short Sketch of the Life and Work of Guru Govind Singh, The Tenth and Last Guru, does not appear to be a reliable source.
I would say this article needs to be re-written, since it is largely unreferenced or referenced by an unreliable source. Oh, and Jagatullah was killed in 1701, so I seriously doubt he was fighting a battle in 1704! --
Kansas Bear (
talk)
22:01, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
The sources do not state that it was Mughal victory nor that there was any surrender. There was an agreement which was broken by the Mughals and then the later battle ensued in a different location after all the civilians and survivors left Anandpur. 134.195.198.201 ( talk) 16:52, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 05:08, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
User: CanadianSingh1469 please provide the link for Grewal's book page 166, this figure is more than likely a figurative/metaphorical figure of speech and not a literal number. I'm not inclined to take this at face value. Southasianhistorian8 ( talk) 00:00, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
Reliable
sources |
Sources | Notes |
---|---|---|
Tony Jacques | ||
Indubhusan Banerjee | ||
J.S Grewal | ||
Louis Fenech | ||
Anshu Malhotra, Farina Mir | ||
Harbans Kaur Sagoo | Reliable, though it should be noted that none of them have published any peer reviewed academic books and I was unable to find readily available information about Gandhi's educational background, apart that he is a historian by profession (generally reliable, though not preeminent authorities). | |
Madanjit Kaur | ||
Surjit Singh Gandhi | ||
Unreliable sources | D.S Saggu | Self published source (Notion Press) |
Max Arthur Macauliffe | Quite old- (all the books he authored were published in 1909, though by Oxford University). Though we do use other works by Hari Ram Gupta and Ganda Singh extensively in other Wikipedia articles, some of their earliest works were published in the mid 1930s, but I would consider them to be RS given their academic stature. | |
Khazan Singh | Quite old- dismal information available on author (major works on history appear to be published in 1914) | |
Dalip Singh | Self published/unreliable publisher (Singh Bros) | |
Guru Gobind Singh | Primary source | |
Amardeep Dahiya | See https://www.singhbrothers.com/en/amardeep-s-dahiya | |
Pritpal Singh Bindra | Unreliable publisher (Unreliable publisher of Singh Bros + based on the supposed recovering and republishing of a Bhatt Vahi [medieval bard's] book; Original work precedes 1868 at the latest-written in 1790 according to CS1469) | |
Surinder Singh Johar | Hagiography/no apparent background in history |
We need to rewrite this article based off reliable sources, I excluded Surjit Singh Gandhi for now as he may be a point of contention which may need more input from other users.
Southasianhistorian8 (
talk)
10:42, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
3O Response: If more input is needed on the reliability of particular sources, checking the archives of the reliable sources noticeboard to see if these sources have been discussed there, and opening a discussion about them there if not, will get much better input than a single third opinion. I would very much recommend that instead. Seraphimblade Talk to me 00:08, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
The page has been fully protected for 4 days due to edit warring. Rather than edit warring, please discuss these changes, develop consensus, and seek help resolving the dispute if needed. Getting a third opinion may be helpful. Daniel Quinlan ( talk) 00:58, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
Information in the infobox should not be "controversial". Refer the reader to an appropriate section in the article or leave the parameter blank rather than make an unsubstantiated or doubtful claim.
3O Response: I concur that the strength figure isn't reliable. Both sides appear to agree that Saggu is unreliable, and the other two sources appear to be either figurative (the first one says 1:100 which isn't exact enough to say 1 million which assumes the defenders have the upper bound estimate) or doubt it (the Oxford quote encases the figure in quotes). Aaron Liu ( talk) 02:29, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
Paragraph from book Guru Gobind Singh by History professor Shiv Gajrani.I have the book handy and can upload the picture of the page if needed but please give instruction on how to do so.
The news of the campaign against the Guru spread throughout the land. Consequently, bands of Sikh disciples started arriving in Anandpur from different directions. Before any fight took place Guru Gobind Singh had about 10,000 men. However, they were not well equipped. On the other hand, the Mughal army was consisted of over a hundred thousand well-equipped men. Moreover, they were accustomed to fighting and could face the troubles and hardships of war. But there was a divided house. They were, though nominally, under two or three commanders but they looked to their respective leader for taking the initiative. In this respect, the Guru and his men were at an advantage. [1] 2601:547:B05:23AA:9920:68A2:362F:68F4 ( talk) 13:41, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
uoloaded picture of page 71 and 72 from book Guru Gobind Singh by history professor Shiv Gajrani.
Example.jpg|Caption1 Example.jpg|Caption2 </gallery>
References
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to
India,
Pakistan, and
Afghanistan, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Hlo sir please read about Indian history. You are spreading false information on Indian history. Your edits are inappropriate please verify them before editing — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aradhyasharma ( talk • contribs) 02:21, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
According to Dictionary of Battles and Sieges: A-E, ed. Tony Jaques, page 49, "Imperial troops were repulsed in northern Punjab at Basoli and Anandpur, and Emperor Aurangzeb sent Generals Wazir Khan and Zaberdast Khan to besiege Sikh Guru Gobind Singh in his stronghold at Anandpur, northeast of Ludhiana. Facing starvation, the Guru capitulated in return for safe passage, but the Sikhs were treacherously attacked at the Sarsa(20 May - 20 December 1704)".
Seeing how the Sikhs capitulated, then the Mughals won this siege. I would suggest Aradhyasharma stop edit warring and bring his concerns here. --
Kansas Bear (
talk)
02:40, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
Sir the battle took place at Anandpur in 1701 .Jagatullah gujar leader was killed see in the source. Please take prompt action. Shah439 ( talk) 05:48, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
I changed the article myself sir no it is your responsibility to secure it Shah439 ( talk) 08:23, 23 April 2015 (UTC) Shah439 ( talk) 08:23, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
I changed the article myself sir no it is your responsibility to secure it Shah439 ( talk) 08:23, 23 April 2015 (UTC) Shah439 ( talk) 08:23, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Shah439 is there any reason why you have resorted to a claim that is not supported by any academic source that I have researched? Are you willing to provide legitimate sources? What you are doing seems to amount to vandalism. Xtremedood ( talk) 05:22, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Sir i have some sources of the battle which claim that it was a Sikh victory. 106.192.155.216 ( talk) 01:50, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
1) [1] 2) [2] 106.192.155.216 ( talk) 02:00, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
References
Sir article has been mismatched with the reference of the battle. It was the battle between Sikhs and Hilly rajas there is no reference of Siege.this was not a siege .See other references also ghumand Chand , jagatullah Chand is not shown in your reference no. 1 which claims the mughals Victory. Change the date if the article also . I m posting some references of the battle also go through them also don't rely on single article Australianammu ( talk) 09:36, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
This article is completely misleading as no such battle took place at all in history. It is widely known that Battle of Anadpur took place (wikipedia page already renamed from first battle of Anandpur) and then the next battle that took place was battle of Nirmohgarh and then battle of Chamkaur took place where respected Guruji wrote Zafarnama and declared victory over Mughal forces. The user Shah439 along with his duplicate accounts have already been blocked for spreading misinformation. I'm marking this page for speedy deletion. Sohcb8 ( talk)
[1] [2] Ghumand leader, jagatullah. Please change the name of the battle It should be the battle of Anandpur 1701... Necessary action to be taken Ama975193 ( talk) 17:37, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
References
According to Dictionary of Battles and Sieges: A-E, ed. Tony Jaques, page 49, "Imperial troops were repulsed in northern Punjab at Basoli and Anandpur, and Emperor Aurangzeb sent Generals Wazir Khan and Zaberdast Khan to besiege Sikh Guru Gobind Singh in his stronghold at Anandpur, northeast of Ludhiana. Facing starvation, the Guru capitulated in return for safe passage, but the Sikhs were treacherously attacked at the Sarsa(20 May - 20 December 1704)". Seeing how the Sikhs capitulated, then the Mughals won this siege.
Also, according to Tony Jaques, there were two battles at Anandpur in 1704 [1], which one does the article reflect?
There was a battle of Anandpur in 1700(Jaques,p.48);
There was another battle of Anandpur in 1701(Jaques,p.48-49);
And this, Bhagat Lakshman Singh, (1995). Short Sketch of the Life and Work of Guru Govind Singh, The Tenth and Last Guru, does not appear to be a reliable source.
I would say this article needs to be re-written, since it is largely unreferenced or referenced by an unreliable source. Oh, and Jagatullah was killed in 1701, so I seriously doubt he was fighting a battle in 1704! --
Kansas Bear (
talk)
22:01, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
The sources do not state that it was Mughal victory nor that there was any surrender. There was an agreement which was broken by the Mughals and then the later battle ensued in a different location after all the civilians and survivors left Anandpur. 134.195.198.201 ( talk) 16:52, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 05:08, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
User: CanadianSingh1469 please provide the link for Grewal's book page 166, this figure is more than likely a figurative/metaphorical figure of speech and not a literal number. I'm not inclined to take this at face value. Southasianhistorian8 ( talk) 00:00, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
Reliable
sources |
Sources | Notes |
---|---|---|
Tony Jacques | ||
Indubhusan Banerjee | ||
J.S Grewal | ||
Louis Fenech | ||
Anshu Malhotra, Farina Mir | ||
Harbans Kaur Sagoo | Reliable, though it should be noted that none of them have published any peer reviewed academic books and I was unable to find readily available information about Gandhi's educational background, apart that he is a historian by profession (generally reliable, though not preeminent authorities). | |
Madanjit Kaur | ||
Surjit Singh Gandhi | ||
Unreliable sources | D.S Saggu | Self published source (Notion Press) |
Max Arthur Macauliffe | Quite old- (all the books he authored were published in 1909, though by Oxford University). Though we do use other works by Hari Ram Gupta and Ganda Singh extensively in other Wikipedia articles, some of their earliest works were published in the mid 1930s, but I would consider them to be RS given their academic stature. | |
Khazan Singh | Quite old- dismal information available on author (major works on history appear to be published in 1914) | |
Dalip Singh | Self published/unreliable publisher (Singh Bros) | |
Guru Gobind Singh | Primary source | |
Amardeep Dahiya | See https://www.singhbrothers.com/en/amardeep-s-dahiya | |
Pritpal Singh Bindra | Unreliable publisher (Unreliable publisher of Singh Bros + based on the supposed recovering and republishing of a Bhatt Vahi [medieval bard's] book; Original work precedes 1868 at the latest-written in 1790 according to CS1469) | |
Surinder Singh Johar | Hagiography/no apparent background in history |
We need to rewrite this article based off reliable sources, I excluded Surjit Singh Gandhi for now as he may be a point of contention which may need more input from other users.
Southasianhistorian8 (
talk)
10:42, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
3O Response: If more input is needed on the reliability of particular sources, checking the archives of the reliable sources noticeboard to see if these sources have been discussed there, and opening a discussion about them there if not, will get much better input than a single third opinion. I would very much recommend that instead. Seraphimblade Talk to me 00:08, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
The page has been fully protected for 4 days due to edit warring. Rather than edit warring, please discuss these changes, develop consensus, and seek help resolving the dispute if needed. Getting a third opinion may be helpful. Daniel Quinlan ( talk) 00:58, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
Information in the infobox should not be "controversial". Refer the reader to an appropriate section in the article or leave the parameter blank rather than make an unsubstantiated or doubtful claim.
3O Response: I concur that the strength figure isn't reliable. Both sides appear to agree that Saggu is unreliable, and the other two sources appear to be either figurative (the first one says 1:100 which isn't exact enough to say 1 million which assumes the defenders have the upper bound estimate) or doubt it (the Oxford quote encases the figure in quotes). Aaron Liu ( talk) 02:29, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
Paragraph from book Guru Gobind Singh by History professor Shiv Gajrani.I have the book handy and can upload the picture of the page if needed but please give instruction on how to do so.
The news of the campaign against the Guru spread throughout the land. Consequently, bands of Sikh disciples started arriving in Anandpur from different directions. Before any fight took place Guru Gobind Singh had about 10,000 men. However, they were not well equipped. On the other hand, the Mughal army was consisted of over a hundred thousand well-equipped men. Moreover, they were accustomed to fighting and could face the troubles and hardships of war. But there was a divided house. They were, though nominally, under two or three commanders but they looked to their respective leader for taking the initiative. In this respect, the Guru and his men were at an advantage. [1] 2601:547:B05:23AA:9920:68A2:362F:68F4 ( talk) 13:41, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
uoloaded picture of page 71 and 72 from book Guru Gobind Singh by history professor Shiv Gajrani.
Example.jpg|Caption1 Example.jpg|Caption2 </gallery>
References