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Aylan2: you have recently made a number of changes to the article, and when they were reverted, you have reinstated them, instead of discussing them first. Please set out your reasons for making the proposed changes here, and provide the sources that you would use to support them, so that other editors can consider them. Thank you. Girth Summit (blether) 14:47, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
@
Gog the Mild:
WP:CITEHOW indicates date of publication of the edition
(my emphasis). It then provides information about citing a reprint with the reprint year but only in terms of with corrections XXXX or similar
(internal quotation marks removed). The edition of CAH2 8 is 1989, not 2006. That is why I changed it to 1989; there is no reason to mislead readers about a source's novelty when there were no actual changes. I ask you therefore to self-revert your revert of my change.
Ifly6 (
talk)
14:55, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
year that the particular edition became available, which in our case is 1989. It also makes a distinction between reprints and editions: CAH2 8 is a single edition with multiple printing runs that all have the same ISBN. The wording in the comments that follow discusses corrected reprints being treated as separate editions; the reprinting of CAH2 8 in 2006 was not such a reprint. I did request clarification at the time on the MOS talk – most commenters took the view of using the earlier date – and made a proposal to clarify existing policies, at Wikipedia talk:Citing sources#Identical reprints. Ifly6 ( talk) 20:29, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
@
Gog the Mild: Also, I'd recommend using {{
harvc}} for the many-times repeated chapters in Companion to the Punic wars. Right now, the tail end of the citation – Wiley, Chichester, West Sussex
, and the ISBN are repeated 10 different times. I would also specify that you're using the paperback edition with the |edition=
parameter.
Ifly6 (
talk)
22:25, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
The current infobox is extremely vague in most parameters, it does not mention the indemnities and restrictions placed on Carthage as part of the consequences of the war - and the commanders section is utterly lacking. It has a few famous commanders from the period, but omits many other significant leaders - like Marcus Marcellus, and Hasdrubal Gisco - who was in charge of defending the Iberian peninsula and then Carthage itself against the initial Roman invasion, and the two Numidian kings who's defections effected a significant change of fortunes towards both sides. I elected to edit the infobox to add many commanders to each side, and would gladly solicit any other opinions on it. My last edit was the penultimate one, revision 1153985595, for reference. Sormando ( talk) 22:12, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
As per MOS:LEAD:
"It gives the basics in a nutshell and cultivates interest in reading on...............the emphasis given to material in the lead should roughly reflect its importance to the topic, according to reliable, published sources. Apart from basic facts, significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article."
Needs some restructuring. Rjdeadly ( talk) 09:48, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
This section is completely devoid of important events of this period particularly around Locri, and also Kroton, which is why I proposed some text. Rjdeadly ( talk) 14:21, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
We should add something about the peace negotiations; they evidently dragged (or the ratification thereof did) into 201 BC. The article abruptly ends with Zama right now. Ifly6 ( talk) 02:55, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Second Punic War article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1,
2,
3Auto-archiving period: 180 days
![]() |
![]() | Second Punic War is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||
![]() | Second Punic War is part of the Punic Wars series, a featured topic. This is identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||
![]() | This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on October 15, 2022. | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Aylan2: you have recently made a number of changes to the article, and when they were reverted, you have reinstated them, instead of discussing them first. Please set out your reasons for making the proposed changes here, and provide the sources that you would use to support them, so that other editors can consider them. Thank you. Girth Summit (blether) 14:47, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
@
Gog the Mild:
WP:CITEHOW indicates date of publication of the edition
(my emphasis). It then provides information about citing a reprint with the reprint year but only in terms of with corrections XXXX or similar
(internal quotation marks removed). The edition of CAH2 8 is 1989, not 2006. That is why I changed it to 1989; there is no reason to mislead readers about a source's novelty when there were no actual changes. I ask you therefore to self-revert your revert of my change.
Ifly6 (
talk)
14:55, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
year that the particular edition became available, which in our case is 1989. It also makes a distinction between reprints and editions: CAH2 8 is a single edition with multiple printing runs that all have the same ISBN. The wording in the comments that follow discusses corrected reprints being treated as separate editions; the reprinting of CAH2 8 in 2006 was not such a reprint. I did request clarification at the time on the MOS talk – most commenters took the view of using the earlier date – and made a proposal to clarify existing policies, at Wikipedia talk:Citing sources#Identical reprints. Ifly6 ( talk) 20:29, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
@
Gog the Mild: Also, I'd recommend using {{
harvc}} for the many-times repeated chapters in Companion to the Punic wars. Right now, the tail end of the citation – Wiley, Chichester, West Sussex
, and the ISBN are repeated 10 different times. I would also specify that you're using the paperback edition with the |edition=
parameter.
Ifly6 (
talk)
22:25, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
The current infobox is extremely vague in most parameters, it does not mention the indemnities and restrictions placed on Carthage as part of the consequences of the war - and the commanders section is utterly lacking. It has a few famous commanders from the period, but omits many other significant leaders - like Marcus Marcellus, and Hasdrubal Gisco - who was in charge of defending the Iberian peninsula and then Carthage itself against the initial Roman invasion, and the two Numidian kings who's defections effected a significant change of fortunes towards both sides. I elected to edit the infobox to add many commanders to each side, and would gladly solicit any other opinions on it. My last edit was the penultimate one, revision 1153985595, for reference. Sormando ( talk) 22:12, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
As per MOS:LEAD:
"It gives the basics in a nutshell and cultivates interest in reading on...............the emphasis given to material in the lead should roughly reflect its importance to the topic, according to reliable, published sources. Apart from basic facts, significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article."
Needs some restructuring. Rjdeadly ( talk) 09:48, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
This section is completely devoid of important events of this period particularly around Locri, and also Kroton, which is why I proposed some text. Rjdeadly ( talk) 14:21, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
We should add something about the peace negotiations; they evidently dragged (or the ratification thereof did) into 201 BC. The article abruptly ends with Zama right now. Ifly6 ( talk) 02:55, 30 December 2023 (UTC)