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i suggest to (re)ad the phrase
" In addition, recent studies of University of Vermont psychologist Kelly Rohan showed that cognitive therapy can relieve the symptoms of SAD. [17]"
this is important because people give only biological reasons and think they are stuck with their brain. it is often overlooked that sad patients profite from psychological help! (and there are studies that prove that)
I have suffered with SAD since my teenage years. I had no idea what the problem was but I did note that soon after autumnal equinox I would seem to have the sensation of a "sigh" stuck in my chest. It does not matter whether it happens to be a sunny day or cloudy day, it seems to be related to the suns angle in the sky, especially in the afternoon. My doctor started me on Zoloft and it made a HUGE difference. A little later I changed health plans and had to switch to Lexapro and that particular SSRI works even better than Zoloft. I don't care what anyone says about SSRI's, to me, they are simply a miracle drug. I am also a very good guitar player and singer who used to perform live. I haven't been able to play and sing in front of anyone for over 20 years but now I am very confident. Thank God for SSRI medications. The Vitamin D dificiency is an interesting Idea because I hate the taste of milk and NEVER drink it.
Surely is this caused by vitamin D deficiency? Crusadeonilliteracy 15:22, 11 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Greyweather 20:24, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I personally suffer from SAD and I honestly don't care what causes it. It runs in my family and although light therapy works a little it didn't have enough effect for me. I found something that works well for me, and that's medication. I am now on Lexapro, a SSRI, and it works wonders for me. I've found that Celexia also works but has more side-effects than lexapro. -- 11-12-2004
Quite a different story way up here in Montana. During the worst of winter the sun sets at around 5:45 and it's below zero a lot. I don't care how many layers you wear or how much you're outside in the sun, there is no way you can suffer from SAD and live here without much effect. There is truly nothing like a warm spring breeze and a sunny day after a very long, cold winter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.14.233.152 ( talk) 02:27, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
"Musician Rick Strom has credited his most creative periods to SAD" I understand that this is just his opinion of which he is entitled to. However the statement does suggest the accompaniment of mania to this form of depression. Is it possible that during the summer months SAD suffers experience episodes of mania? Can anyone “shed some light” on this one for me?
Likewise living in Australia in the driest state SA in the driest continent in the world can also drive a person "round the bend" just as much as British Winter time does to someone from the Northern Hemispere,imagine you where stuck with nothing but intolerable heat for 4 months Its ugly.
I become very depressed in the autumn and have for some time wondered if I suffer from this disorder also. However, I also seem to become quite depressed during spring. Can anyone advise if this is a feature of the disorder. Veronica
Hi Veronica,(15 02 07)
I am diagnosed with SAD which is my only qualification to be able to talk about the subject. It is common for SAD symptoms to present from August through to May. Indeed if the condition is not diagnosed it's fair to say that the worse time for SAD's is usually between January and May. However, diagnosis of SAD is difficult. My advice would be to speak with your GP and keep an open mind. One of the best books you can read on this subject is Winter Blues by Norman Rosenthal. It really is a must read if you suffer with SAD.
Hope that helps Darrell Tw 16:27, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
I see SSRIs being promoted as a cure-all, and I note that wikipedia now claims that they are helpful in controlling SAD. I know quite a number of people who suffer from SAD and all of them say that SSRIs were less than helpful. Now, anecdotes do not make data, but is there any convincing, independant studies to show that SSRIs have anything more than placebo effect on SAD? (perhaps placebo is the wrong word, I should say, "any more effective than taking a random brain scrambling compound")
Personally my experience with SSRIs was scary and ineffective and I wouldn't like someone to consider them unless none of the simpler and more believable techniques sufficed. njh 08:25, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
"Doctors estimate that about 20% of all Swedes are affected, and it seems to be hereditary." - I'd like a reference for that. I mean, I'm Swedish, and sure, many are depressed, but 20%?? Well. Anyway, I'd like a reference, please. / skagedal ... 01:46, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
This sounds easy to be used as an excuse for people that simply like summers better. Until 18-24 years of age most people relate summer with "total freedom" and gaming because most schools shut down, let alone most workers get their longest vacation in summers. So, I'm concerned SAD may be used to hide other reasons of depression without a certain diagnosis. -- 161.76.99.106 14:56, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
--Is Diabetes just an excuse to get out of eating foods you don't like? Cancer an excuse to go for that bald look (through chemotherapy) you've always wanted without your friends making fun of you? I suppose mental retardation is just an excuse to get out of Calculus class, as well. Your argument, while I can see where you might get this idea from, is not valid. (Unsigned comment by 72.128.76.97, 27 December 2006.)
--I don't think it's mutually exclusive. Sure, people can use this as an excuse even if it's really the case. Just like many people DO use their current legimate ailments as excuses to not do things they're perfectly capable of. The only thing I would say about summer vs winter is that atleast in the US, most kids growing up also get vacation and unlike summer, you get presents! (Of course you also get in-laws, so that definitely could be more traumatic) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 15.238.95.37 ( talk) 15:03, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
--I believe the cross-geographical studies shed some light in the validity of SAD. The summer of freedom happens everyhwere (I'm from South America), however the presence of SAD is negligible in those areas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.247.158.120 ( talk) 15:49, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone else chuckle every time they read the acronym SAD? Could there be a more appropriate acronym for a type of depression? Xyzzyva 14:56, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Once again, i'm not saying it doesn't exist, i'm just saying its possibly the stupidly named condition in the world. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.154.175.194 ([[User talk:-- 81.154.175.194 19:41, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
i suggest adding a subtopic Research. There are a lot of different things going on. research on the betablocker propanolol (done by NIMH) as a medication for sad. There is also a study that shows the benefit of taking melatonin for s.a.d. people to reset theyre inner bodyclock. studies of the NIMH also show the benefit of "negative air ionization". as far as i know studies of the NIMH are quite serious, but i am not from the usa. if you want to, i can post here the links to these studies. but my english is not good enogh to write an article (but for sure i will translate it in german, maybe later on also in french and spanish.
as far as i know natalie imbruglia ("torn") suffered also under sad while she lived in england to do recordings for several years. thank you
sad has very differnet symptoms than a "normal" depression. specially the carbohydrates "craving". in a normal depression you loose appettite. important is also that usually the worst month are december and january, the best beetween juin and august.
there is a sad variation in which the summer is depression linked and the winter is depression free.
maybe theres is also the option to have a topic: what kind of symptoms you must have bee be diagnosed with sad: at least 3(or 4?) month of absence of symptoms during the year. saisonal depression must occure during 3 years . the number of saisonal depression has to be higher than the number of "normal"depression. saisonal depression are not linked saisonal changing in life: example:stress because of saisonal unemployment.
if somone is able is to help me improve this site i would be very happy, my english is very poor i know, but i would give you the links to this information.
i deleted this sentence: "Others have shown 456-476 nanometer blue light to be effective." this claims only one producer of bright light lamps, new studies show no benefit of "blue enriched" light (and it is seems also to be dangerous for the eyes)
SAD - man Im a britt 26 years old, during my teen years i suffered with sevear winter blues, problems that i could deal with all year became insurmountable. when i was 23 i finally made the link between seasons and my mood and found that other people i knew felt similar symptoms but not to the extent that i did. One year i used st johns wort, this worked well but i'm not keen on taking pills everyday and found that they took about 2-weeks to take effect. Now I use sunbeds, and can feel my mood lift within a couple of days, i know there is health problems related to sunbeds but it beats wonedring through 4 months feeling tearful and having no energy. I would like to know if anyone has any idea why people should suffer from SAD, i joke that we should be hybernating, but really i do feel like i could sleep till spring, and it would make the lives of them closest to me easier. lol (Unsigned comment by 168.103.139.24, 5 January 2007.)
The part about Ion therapy sounds like pseudoscience to me. Anybody else have the scoop?
I didn't believe it at first either, but apparently its the real deal. I know because I work in a lab with one of the PhDs on those papers. She explained to me that man-made environments such as the interiors of buildings often have an excess of positive ions while natural environments such as beaches and waterfalls often have an abundance of negative ions. However, I am still waiting for a convincing proposal for the mechanism of action of the negative ions. Nathanaver 22:36, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I too have read into a lot of studies done on this subject...it, at first, seems like some kind of preschool magical idea dreamed up by Sharper Image. Apparently not...although I can't figure what effect negative ions would have on the body, it seems to actually work against the symptoms of Seasonal Affective Disorder. Weird, I agree, but true. Obviously more work needs to be done do find out why and how this works, though, and until then I doubt this treatment method will receive much credit. (Unsigned comment by 72.128.76.97, 9 February 2007.)
Hi Nathansaver,
I am diagnosed with SAD and that's the only qualification I have to talk upon the subject. Recently I stumbled upon the negative ion therapy thoughts and tried them out. I have a negative ion "quizmo" next to my bed. I have to say I feel it has been of some help and my sleep has improved. I don't see it as front line in my war with my condition. I've noticed I always prefer to sit in my car if the air-conditioning is on. Does this have any bearing on negative ions? My other weapons of war are a Dawn Simulator, Anti-depressants at a dose of 10mg of Cipralex per day, bright light therapy and simply the knowledge that when I feel low the feeling will abate and go.
I wouldn't be surprised if within the next 12 months Dawn Simulators are made available with negative ion generators built in. I've also noticed that keeping the bedroom temperature above 12 degrees helps too. I don't tolerate the cold too well, but that could be middle age coming on :-) Darrell Tw 16:44, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
This is a bit beyond my area of expertise but I would actually expect air conditioners to deplete the level of negative ions because they reduce the humidity. Of course there are many factors that go into determining mood, not the least of which is body temperature, so maybe the air conditioner helps with thermoregulation?
I'm happy to see you have so many tools to use against SAD, keep it up! Nathanaver 15:18, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
I am a summer SAD sufferer. So during summer, I have to find places that there are not a lot of natural sun and the temperature never climbs above 25 degrees Celsius. Though my summer SAD has more things to consider than sunlight and the heat, like feeling lonely because of summer holidays. That is easier to fix than the weather, but basically, that's the reason I learn to skate so I can stay away from the sun. (Unsigned comment, 5 April 2007, by 202.180.98.76.)
winter in finland= little sun little sun = low vitamin D low vitamin D = depression Esmehwp 18:12, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
On what basis are the external links being maintained? There seems to be considerable bias towards one particular retailer at the expense of providing further information for readers. 81.149.220.28 12:44, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
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I seem to suffer from this, and there is hardly any mention of it in the article. shouldnt there be a little bit more, or possibly its own article? The Umbrella Corporation 01:51, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
I also have suffered from RSAD for many years (with anxiety being the most prominent effect). It is true that the overwhelming majority of resources completely ignore the existence of Reverse Seasonal Effective Disorder (or, as my psychiatrist, who has this as well, calls it: SAD Type 2). When it *is* mentioned, it's often as an offhand comment, and all treatment focuses on winter-depression SAD. That's currently where this wiki stands. I'm scouring the net for articles and references. The unfortunate thing is that, since studies focus on winter SAD, statistical references are nearly impossible to find. Medical knowledge of RSAD seems to presently be purely anecdotal. -- EmmettTheSane ( talk) 21:11, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
New information is available regarding the complex interaction between Vitamin D and body tissues. ("Cell Defenses and the Sunshine Vitamin", L. E. Tavera-Mendoza & J. H. White, Scientific American, November 2007, http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=1&articleID=8B8ACB9D-E7F2-99DF-35E10D1D3B2F1E59)
The biologically active form of Vitamin D (1,25D) is known to regulate over 1000 different genes and at least a dozen tissues and cell types. I do not doubt that at some point 1,25D will be linked directly with serotonin production and/or production of other chemicals influencing mood. I recommend that those who live in northern latitudes take supplemental Vitamin D3 (~1000 IUs/day) in the Jan-Mar time frame! Dave 16:07, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't see why Vitamin D isn't mentioned in the article somewhere. There's a study floating around that compared vitamin D supplementation and bright light therapy, and vitamin D was shown more effective. It also compared 800IU to 4,000IU and the latter was better. For what its worth, I've been "afflicted" with this, where I get very lethargic and depressed during the winter, so I went to get a SpectraCell test done. The test measure cellular levels of vitamins and minerals, and what do you know, I had a severe deficiency of vitamin D. Only three days after I began taking it did I notice *drug-like* effects. Anecdotal, sure, but I think this needs to be said in the article as there is a wealth of information on vitamin D and SAD.
It is often assumed - but not shown that all the health effects of the sun are due to D3. (Some might be due to the lowering of the provitamin ( 7-dehydrocholesterol). Somewhere I read that there were a total of 10 known photo-chemicals generated by the sun shining on the skin. I have not been able to find the source of that information - thus I'm mentioning it in the talk section in hope someone else knows of the source I read and might post it in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.243.106.82 ( talk) 03:55, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Latest research has identified 10 other “photo-chemicals” i.e. vitamins similar to vitamin D that are also produced in skin cells when the skin is exposed to Ultraviolet B (UVB) light rays. The purpose and importance of these vitamins is currently unknown but they are now the focus of cutting edge research.
[ [2]] Maybe this should be included om the part about SAD in scandinavia —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bis111 ( talk • contribs) 19:34, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Just a thought, but maybe it is due to evolution. People with it in the country either do not get into relationships because they are depressed or commit suicide before having kids. Over the hundreds of years they've be there this could have happened. The same effect would be so in the Northern European countries because they can move and mix with the rest of Europe easier.
--
Stripy42 (
talk)
19:11, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Removed this sentence: "Particularly in high latitudes (50°N or S) it is common for people to experience lower energy levels." As it stands, this doesn't make much sense. Obviously, there are both lazy and energetic people at all latitudes. Hordaland ( talk) 21:06, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
Hello, My name is Irene Warner
I am a new Wikipedian. I need some help with documentation. According to the Mayo Clinic, needs a footnote number 2. And reference #22 needs to have the book title underlined. I could not find anyway to do that. I deleted the information in the last sentence of the introduction becaue the source was not cited correcty. The last sentence was corrected in the symptoms section. Irenewarner ( talk) 21:41, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Hello, it's Irene Warner again. I would like to add a new section to the article but don't know how to do that. Please give me thank you. Irenewarner ( talk) 21:45, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
I removed the "Coping with Seasonal Affective Disorder: Common-Sense Solutions for Living with SAD." section. It was unreferenced and Wikipedia is not a manual. - Hairsquare ( talk) 01:07, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Insert non-formatted text here
In the symptoms section, I documented where I got the information from. How do I change it to make it acceptable.
In the coping section, not all of the information is from one source. Part of it is from May Clinic and part of it is from a journal article.
I am very new to this experience so some guidance and suggestions would be helpful.
Thank you Irenewarner ( talk) 02:14, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Someone has added this link to this article with no explanation. I can see no relationship between these topics and am removing it. -- Hordaland ( talk) 07:29, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
I returned to this article after a few months to discover that all direct references to Reverse SAD (summer depression) had been removed, so this article was again only pointing to WINTER-depression based SAD.
Irene (and others): please avoid deleting references to RSAD. Believe it or not, the existence of us summer-depression sufferers actually helps to legitimise the winter-depression form of SAD, since it provides evidence that the same type of depression isn't based on a pattern of school holidays or other traditional associations.
I'm removing this new "synonym" for SAD. Google has 108 hits for "scandinavian depression": about theater and the arts, about economic depression, and about SAD, including, of course, blogs. Has any research paper used this term? It can always be added back in if/when it catches on in the medical/scientific community. -- Hordaland ( talk) 10:05, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Someone is trying to sell negative ion generators in this section. The cite they have given does not support their claims. Ions were given in a study with natural dawn light (which does work). The conclusion of the study that both natural dawn light (a product as well as a process) and negative ion generation both work is unsupported, since each is a counfounding variable to any claim of efficacy of the other.
The ad claim here is harmful, as well as unproven. Ion generators are cheap to make and hawked as cures, but in fact ground-level ozone is a harmful pollutant.
Unless and until it is later supported by a reliable study, the ad claim about negative ion generators should be removed.
The study is doubly doubtful because it was performed by a guy who sells negative ionizers.
Terman, M.; Terman, J.S. (2006). "Controlled Trial of Naturalistic Dawn Simulation and Negative Air Ionization for Seasonal Affective Disorder". American Journal of Psychiatry 163 (12): 2126–2133. doi:10.1176/appi.ajp.163.12.2126. PMID 17151164. 17151164. Retrieved on 2007-05-12.
Compare article in About.com:
Winter 2006-2007 SAD Treatment Update From Dr. Michael Terman, for About.com Updated: October 10, 2007 About.com Health's Disease and Condition content is reviewed by the Medical Review Board in which Dr. Terman reports that he is the author of the study in question, and lists negative air ionization as a placebo control:
""The December 2006 issue of the American Journal of Psychiatry reports my clinical trial of the three methods, including a placebo control, low-density negative air ionization."
However in the synopsis M. Terman prepared for PMID 17151164 he listed a conclusion that ionization was an active antidepressants -- a conclusion hardly supported by the study, even taken on its face:
Finally, Dr. Terman's About.com article contains a click-through to a commercial site.
This seems as though Dr. Terman may have taken advantage of the opportunity to very loosely word his conclusions (which presumably are not peer reviewed) in the service of a commercial enterprise. Since Dr. Terman was also, apparently, in possession and control of all the data at the point when he collected it, his data as well as his conclusions seem suspect. But even if negative ionization had antidepressant benefits, they are outweighed by negative health effects. Other means of fighting SAD, including light, don't have these effects.
In conclusion, the whole section has been jimmied into an ad for an enterprise .
Are people actually expected to believe this is a real condition and of high importance in the wiki psychology project? MOST people experience "SAD" during the Winter and occasionally during the Summer, and most mammals do too. It's hardly worthy of it's own psychological condition or of high importance. Zanotam - Google me ( talk) 17:45, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
From the lede:
From "Nordic countries":
The latter is cited, while the former is not (and indeed is tagged as such); additionally, the latter is a few hundred years before the former, which makes me think the lede should be rewritten. Nevertheless, the article is currently self-contradictory. COmments? Andrew Jameson ( talk) 15:14, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
Seasonal Afffective Disorder (SAD)is commonly related to the type of sun's rays people are exposed to. In cold months of the year there are no UVB rays which are a direct sunlight beam. UVA sunlight beams are the only type people, plants, animals reeive on their skin in the cold months unless they live or vacation near to the equator. UVB sunlight rays are essential to the body and mind of humans and animals because they allow the production of Vitamin D3 in the skin. This is the main reason many people need phototherapy or light therapy in the cold months of the year. There are other forms of Vitamin D (see vitamin D in Wikipedia) mushrooms, oily fish like herring or sardine, or salmon. We could also take a vitamin supplement but make sure it is vitamin D3 because that is the most potent form. SAD is most commonly found in northerly areas during the colder months of the year. People with darker skin are more likely to be affected by SAD because they are more use to UVB rays by genetic inheritance, in other words their ancestors lived near to the equator. I would like to list some early signs of vitamin D deficiency caused by lack of UVB light exposure and hope some other people would contribute to these early signs. Nail growth is poor and nails become brittle, feeling extremely irrritable and not in need of socializing or sex, frequent overeating and indigestion of the nature of constipation. I feel the mind can actually see what goes through the gastointestinal tract, when vitamin D is under consumed the mind simply consticts the gastrointestinal tract untill more vitamin D is consumed. In conclusion, before we had access to alternative types of vitamin D I believe early humans who lived in areas a greater distance from the equator where extremely light skin colored and hibernated due to the SAD effects of the lack of UVB rays of the SUN. 72.171.0.145 ( talk) 21:37, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Over a year ago, I put the first notes about summertime depression into this article. At first, all referenced to non-winter SAD were removed. I put them back with references (which was the reason someone removed them), and am delighted to see that they've stuck and gained a little bit of information. Sharing information is what this is about, right?
What I want to know next: sufferers of SSAD/WSAD (summer/winter season affective disorder): do you consider yourself a "morning person" or a "night person"? I suspect that there may be a link between "night people" and SSAD sufferers.
EmmettTheSane ( talk) 13:31, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Not every article that focuses on the Northern climes has a systemic bias. Obviously a condition exacerbated by seasonal shifts will be more prevalent in North America and Europe than in other places, simply because the seasonal shifts in light and temperature are greater in those places. This is not systemic bias. The descriptions and statistics from Europe balance the American ones quite well here. I need a really good reason to keep that systemic bias banner. Mdw0 ( talk) 07:56, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
no one has considered pollen disorders,not food labled,try cutting down on its exposure and food consumtion during the summer and see what withdrawel effects you get in the winter,we are not like most birds who migrate for pollen all year round — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paulbown ( talk • contribs) 08:16, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
i suggest to (re)ad the phrase
" In addition, recent studies of University of Vermont psychologist Kelly Rohan showed that cognitive therapy can relieve the symptoms of SAD. [17]"
this is important because people give only biological reasons and think they are stuck with their brain. it is often overlooked that sad patients profite from psychological help! (and there are studies that prove that)
I have suffered with SAD since my teenage years. I had no idea what the problem was but I did note that soon after autumnal equinox I would seem to have the sensation of a "sigh" stuck in my chest. It does not matter whether it happens to be a sunny day or cloudy day, it seems to be related to the suns angle in the sky, especially in the afternoon. My doctor started me on Zoloft and it made a HUGE difference. A little later I changed health plans and had to switch to Lexapro and that particular SSRI works even better than Zoloft. I don't care what anyone says about SSRI's, to me, they are simply a miracle drug. I am also a very good guitar player and singer who used to perform live. I haven't been able to play and sing in front of anyone for over 20 years but now I am very confident. Thank God for SSRI medications. The Vitamin D dificiency is an interesting Idea because I hate the taste of milk and NEVER drink it.
Surely is this caused by vitamin D deficiency? Crusadeonilliteracy 15:22, 11 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Greyweather 20:24, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I personally suffer from SAD and I honestly don't care what causes it. It runs in my family and although light therapy works a little it didn't have enough effect for me. I found something that works well for me, and that's medication. I am now on Lexapro, a SSRI, and it works wonders for me. I've found that Celexia also works but has more side-effects than lexapro. -- 11-12-2004
Quite a different story way up here in Montana. During the worst of winter the sun sets at around 5:45 and it's below zero a lot. I don't care how many layers you wear or how much you're outside in the sun, there is no way you can suffer from SAD and live here without much effect. There is truly nothing like a warm spring breeze and a sunny day after a very long, cold winter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.14.233.152 ( talk) 02:27, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
"Musician Rick Strom has credited his most creative periods to SAD" I understand that this is just his opinion of which he is entitled to. However the statement does suggest the accompaniment of mania to this form of depression. Is it possible that during the summer months SAD suffers experience episodes of mania? Can anyone “shed some light” on this one for me?
Likewise living in Australia in the driest state SA in the driest continent in the world can also drive a person "round the bend" just as much as British Winter time does to someone from the Northern Hemispere,imagine you where stuck with nothing but intolerable heat for 4 months Its ugly.
I become very depressed in the autumn and have for some time wondered if I suffer from this disorder also. However, I also seem to become quite depressed during spring. Can anyone advise if this is a feature of the disorder. Veronica
Hi Veronica,(15 02 07)
I am diagnosed with SAD which is my only qualification to be able to talk about the subject. It is common for SAD symptoms to present from August through to May. Indeed if the condition is not diagnosed it's fair to say that the worse time for SAD's is usually between January and May. However, diagnosis of SAD is difficult. My advice would be to speak with your GP and keep an open mind. One of the best books you can read on this subject is Winter Blues by Norman Rosenthal. It really is a must read if you suffer with SAD.
Hope that helps Darrell Tw 16:27, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
I see SSRIs being promoted as a cure-all, and I note that wikipedia now claims that they are helpful in controlling SAD. I know quite a number of people who suffer from SAD and all of them say that SSRIs were less than helpful. Now, anecdotes do not make data, but is there any convincing, independant studies to show that SSRIs have anything more than placebo effect on SAD? (perhaps placebo is the wrong word, I should say, "any more effective than taking a random brain scrambling compound")
Personally my experience with SSRIs was scary and ineffective and I wouldn't like someone to consider them unless none of the simpler and more believable techniques sufficed. njh 08:25, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
"Doctors estimate that about 20% of all Swedes are affected, and it seems to be hereditary." - I'd like a reference for that. I mean, I'm Swedish, and sure, many are depressed, but 20%?? Well. Anyway, I'd like a reference, please. / skagedal ... 01:46, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
This sounds easy to be used as an excuse for people that simply like summers better. Until 18-24 years of age most people relate summer with "total freedom" and gaming because most schools shut down, let alone most workers get their longest vacation in summers. So, I'm concerned SAD may be used to hide other reasons of depression without a certain diagnosis. -- 161.76.99.106 14:56, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
--Is Diabetes just an excuse to get out of eating foods you don't like? Cancer an excuse to go for that bald look (through chemotherapy) you've always wanted without your friends making fun of you? I suppose mental retardation is just an excuse to get out of Calculus class, as well. Your argument, while I can see where you might get this idea from, is not valid. (Unsigned comment by 72.128.76.97, 27 December 2006.)
--I don't think it's mutually exclusive. Sure, people can use this as an excuse even if it's really the case. Just like many people DO use their current legimate ailments as excuses to not do things they're perfectly capable of. The only thing I would say about summer vs winter is that atleast in the US, most kids growing up also get vacation and unlike summer, you get presents! (Of course you also get in-laws, so that definitely could be more traumatic) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 15.238.95.37 ( talk) 15:03, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
--I believe the cross-geographical studies shed some light in the validity of SAD. The summer of freedom happens everyhwere (I'm from South America), however the presence of SAD is negligible in those areas. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.247.158.120 ( talk) 15:49, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone else chuckle every time they read the acronym SAD? Could there be a more appropriate acronym for a type of depression? Xyzzyva 14:56, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Once again, i'm not saying it doesn't exist, i'm just saying its possibly the stupidly named condition in the world. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.154.175.194 ([[User talk:-- 81.154.175.194 19:41, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
i suggest adding a subtopic Research. There are a lot of different things going on. research on the betablocker propanolol (done by NIMH) as a medication for sad. There is also a study that shows the benefit of taking melatonin for s.a.d. people to reset theyre inner bodyclock. studies of the NIMH also show the benefit of "negative air ionization". as far as i know studies of the NIMH are quite serious, but i am not from the usa. if you want to, i can post here the links to these studies. but my english is not good enogh to write an article (but for sure i will translate it in german, maybe later on also in french and spanish.
as far as i know natalie imbruglia ("torn") suffered also under sad while she lived in england to do recordings for several years. thank you
sad has very differnet symptoms than a "normal" depression. specially the carbohydrates "craving". in a normal depression you loose appettite. important is also that usually the worst month are december and january, the best beetween juin and august.
there is a sad variation in which the summer is depression linked and the winter is depression free.
maybe theres is also the option to have a topic: what kind of symptoms you must have bee be diagnosed with sad: at least 3(or 4?) month of absence of symptoms during the year. saisonal depression must occure during 3 years . the number of saisonal depression has to be higher than the number of "normal"depression. saisonal depression are not linked saisonal changing in life: example:stress because of saisonal unemployment.
if somone is able is to help me improve this site i would be very happy, my english is very poor i know, but i would give you the links to this information.
i deleted this sentence: "Others have shown 456-476 nanometer blue light to be effective." this claims only one producer of bright light lamps, new studies show no benefit of "blue enriched" light (and it is seems also to be dangerous for the eyes)
SAD - man Im a britt 26 years old, during my teen years i suffered with sevear winter blues, problems that i could deal with all year became insurmountable. when i was 23 i finally made the link between seasons and my mood and found that other people i knew felt similar symptoms but not to the extent that i did. One year i used st johns wort, this worked well but i'm not keen on taking pills everyday and found that they took about 2-weeks to take effect. Now I use sunbeds, and can feel my mood lift within a couple of days, i know there is health problems related to sunbeds but it beats wonedring through 4 months feeling tearful and having no energy. I would like to know if anyone has any idea why people should suffer from SAD, i joke that we should be hybernating, but really i do feel like i could sleep till spring, and it would make the lives of them closest to me easier. lol (Unsigned comment by 168.103.139.24, 5 January 2007.)
The part about Ion therapy sounds like pseudoscience to me. Anybody else have the scoop?
I didn't believe it at first either, but apparently its the real deal. I know because I work in a lab with one of the PhDs on those papers. She explained to me that man-made environments such as the interiors of buildings often have an excess of positive ions while natural environments such as beaches and waterfalls often have an abundance of negative ions. However, I am still waiting for a convincing proposal for the mechanism of action of the negative ions. Nathanaver 22:36, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I too have read into a lot of studies done on this subject...it, at first, seems like some kind of preschool magical idea dreamed up by Sharper Image. Apparently not...although I can't figure what effect negative ions would have on the body, it seems to actually work against the symptoms of Seasonal Affective Disorder. Weird, I agree, but true. Obviously more work needs to be done do find out why and how this works, though, and until then I doubt this treatment method will receive much credit. (Unsigned comment by 72.128.76.97, 9 February 2007.)
Hi Nathansaver,
I am diagnosed with SAD and that's the only qualification I have to talk upon the subject. Recently I stumbled upon the negative ion therapy thoughts and tried them out. I have a negative ion "quizmo" next to my bed. I have to say I feel it has been of some help and my sleep has improved. I don't see it as front line in my war with my condition. I've noticed I always prefer to sit in my car if the air-conditioning is on. Does this have any bearing on negative ions? My other weapons of war are a Dawn Simulator, Anti-depressants at a dose of 10mg of Cipralex per day, bright light therapy and simply the knowledge that when I feel low the feeling will abate and go.
I wouldn't be surprised if within the next 12 months Dawn Simulators are made available with negative ion generators built in. I've also noticed that keeping the bedroom temperature above 12 degrees helps too. I don't tolerate the cold too well, but that could be middle age coming on :-) Darrell Tw 16:44, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
This is a bit beyond my area of expertise but I would actually expect air conditioners to deplete the level of negative ions because they reduce the humidity. Of course there are many factors that go into determining mood, not the least of which is body temperature, so maybe the air conditioner helps with thermoregulation?
I'm happy to see you have so many tools to use against SAD, keep it up! Nathanaver 15:18, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
I am a summer SAD sufferer. So during summer, I have to find places that there are not a lot of natural sun and the temperature never climbs above 25 degrees Celsius. Though my summer SAD has more things to consider than sunlight and the heat, like feeling lonely because of summer holidays. That is easier to fix than the weather, but basically, that's the reason I learn to skate so I can stay away from the sun. (Unsigned comment, 5 April 2007, by 202.180.98.76.)
winter in finland= little sun little sun = low vitamin D low vitamin D = depression Esmehwp 18:12, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
On what basis are the external links being maintained? There seems to be considerable bias towards one particular retailer at the expense of providing further information for readers. 81.149.220.28 12:44, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
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I seem to suffer from this, and there is hardly any mention of it in the article. shouldnt there be a little bit more, or possibly its own article? The Umbrella Corporation 01:51, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
I also have suffered from RSAD for many years (with anxiety being the most prominent effect). It is true that the overwhelming majority of resources completely ignore the existence of Reverse Seasonal Effective Disorder (or, as my psychiatrist, who has this as well, calls it: SAD Type 2). When it *is* mentioned, it's often as an offhand comment, and all treatment focuses on winter-depression SAD. That's currently where this wiki stands. I'm scouring the net for articles and references. The unfortunate thing is that, since studies focus on winter SAD, statistical references are nearly impossible to find. Medical knowledge of RSAD seems to presently be purely anecdotal. -- EmmettTheSane ( talk) 21:11, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
New information is available regarding the complex interaction between Vitamin D and body tissues. ("Cell Defenses and the Sunshine Vitamin", L. E. Tavera-Mendoza & J. H. White, Scientific American, November 2007, http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=1&articleID=8B8ACB9D-E7F2-99DF-35E10D1D3B2F1E59)
The biologically active form of Vitamin D (1,25D) is known to regulate over 1000 different genes and at least a dozen tissues and cell types. I do not doubt that at some point 1,25D will be linked directly with serotonin production and/or production of other chemicals influencing mood. I recommend that those who live in northern latitudes take supplemental Vitamin D3 (~1000 IUs/day) in the Jan-Mar time frame! Dave 16:07, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't see why Vitamin D isn't mentioned in the article somewhere. There's a study floating around that compared vitamin D supplementation and bright light therapy, and vitamin D was shown more effective. It also compared 800IU to 4,000IU and the latter was better. For what its worth, I've been "afflicted" with this, where I get very lethargic and depressed during the winter, so I went to get a SpectraCell test done. The test measure cellular levels of vitamins and minerals, and what do you know, I had a severe deficiency of vitamin D. Only three days after I began taking it did I notice *drug-like* effects. Anecdotal, sure, but I think this needs to be said in the article as there is a wealth of information on vitamin D and SAD.
It is often assumed - but not shown that all the health effects of the sun are due to D3. (Some might be due to the lowering of the provitamin ( 7-dehydrocholesterol). Somewhere I read that there were a total of 10 known photo-chemicals generated by the sun shining on the skin. I have not been able to find the source of that information - thus I'm mentioning it in the talk section in hope someone else knows of the source I read and might post it in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.243.106.82 ( talk) 03:55, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Latest research has identified 10 other “photo-chemicals” i.e. vitamins similar to vitamin D that are also produced in skin cells when the skin is exposed to Ultraviolet B (UVB) light rays. The purpose and importance of these vitamins is currently unknown but they are now the focus of cutting edge research.
[ [2]] Maybe this should be included om the part about SAD in scandinavia —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bis111 ( talk • contribs) 19:34, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Just a thought, but maybe it is due to evolution. People with it in the country either do not get into relationships because they are depressed or commit suicide before having kids. Over the hundreds of years they've be there this could have happened. The same effect would be so in the Northern European countries because they can move and mix with the rest of Europe easier.
--
Stripy42 (
talk)
19:11, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
Removed this sentence: "Particularly in high latitudes (50°N or S) it is common for people to experience lower energy levels." As it stands, this doesn't make much sense. Obviously, there are both lazy and energetic people at all latitudes. Hordaland ( talk) 21:06, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
Hello, My name is Irene Warner
I am a new Wikipedian. I need some help with documentation. According to the Mayo Clinic, needs a footnote number 2. And reference #22 needs to have the book title underlined. I could not find anyway to do that. I deleted the information in the last sentence of the introduction becaue the source was not cited correcty. The last sentence was corrected in the symptoms section. Irenewarner ( talk) 21:41, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Hello, it's Irene Warner again. I would like to add a new section to the article but don't know how to do that. Please give me thank you. Irenewarner ( talk) 21:45, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
I removed the "Coping with Seasonal Affective Disorder: Common-Sense Solutions for Living with SAD." section. It was unreferenced and Wikipedia is not a manual. - Hairsquare ( talk) 01:07, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Insert non-formatted text here
In the symptoms section, I documented where I got the information from. How do I change it to make it acceptable.
In the coping section, not all of the information is from one source. Part of it is from May Clinic and part of it is from a journal article.
I am very new to this experience so some guidance and suggestions would be helpful.
Thank you Irenewarner ( talk) 02:14, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Someone has added this link to this article with no explanation. I can see no relationship between these topics and am removing it. -- Hordaland ( talk) 07:29, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
I returned to this article after a few months to discover that all direct references to Reverse SAD (summer depression) had been removed, so this article was again only pointing to WINTER-depression based SAD.
Irene (and others): please avoid deleting references to RSAD. Believe it or not, the existence of us summer-depression sufferers actually helps to legitimise the winter-depression form of SAD, since it provides evidence that the same type of depression isn't based on a pattern of school holidays or other traditional associations.
I'm removing this new "synonym" for SAD. Google has 108 hits for "scandinavian depression": about theater and the arts, about economic depression, and about SAD, including, of course, blogs. Has any research paper used this term? It can always be added back in if/when it catches on in the medical/scientific community. -- Hordaland ( talk) 10:05, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Someone is trying to sell negative ion generators in this section. The cite they have given does not support their claims. Ions were given in a study with natural dawn light (which does work). The conclusion of the study that both natural dawn light (a product as well as a process) and negative ion generation both work is unsupported, since each is a counfounding variable to any claim of efficacy of the other.
The ad claim here is harmful, as well as unproven. Ion generators are cheap to make and hawked as cures, but in fact ground-level ozone is a harmful pollutant.
Unless and until it is later supported by a reliable study, the ad claim about negative ion generators should be removed.
The study is doubly doubtful because it was performed by a guy who sells negative ionizers.
Terman, M.; Terman, J.S. (2006). "Controlled Trial of Naturalistic Dawn Simulation and Negative Air Ionization for Seasonal Affective Disorder". American Journal of Psychiatry 163 (12): 2126–2133. doi:10.1176/appi.ajp.163.12.2126. PMID 17151164. 17151164. Retrieved on 2007-05-12.
Compare article in About.com:
Winter 2006-2007 SAD Treatment Update From Dr. Michael Terman, for About.com Updated: October 10, 2007 About.com Health's Disease and Condition content is reviewed by the Medical Review Board in which Dr. Terman reports that he is the author of the study in question, and lists negative air ionization as a placebo control:
""The December 2006 issue of the American Journal of Psychiatry reports my clinical trial of the three methods, including a placebo control, low-density negative air ionization."
However in the synopsis M. Terman prepared for PMID 17151164 he listed a conclusion that ionization was an active antidepressants -- a conclusion hardly supported by the study, even taken on its face:
Finally, Dr. Terman's About.com article contains a click-through to a commercial site.
This seems as though Dr. Terman may have taken advantage of the opportunity to very loosely word his conclusions (which presumably are not peer reviewed) in the service of a commercial enterprise. Since Dr. Terman was also, apparently, in possession and control of all the data at the point when he collected it, his data as well as his conclusions seem suspect. But even if negative ionization had antidepressant benefits, they are outweighed by negative health effects. Other means of fighting SAD, including light, don't have these effects.
In conclusion, the whole section has been jimmied into an ad for an enterprise .
Are people actually expected to believe this is a real condition and of high importance in the wiki psychology project? MOST people experience "SAD" during the Winter and occasionally during the Summer, and most mammals do too. It's hardly worthy of it's own psychological condition or of high importance. Zanotam - Google me ( talk) 17:45, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
From the lede:
From "Nordic countries":
The latter is cited, while the former is not (and indeed is tagged as such); additionally, the latter is a few hundred years before the former, which makes me think the lede should be rewritten. Nevertheless, the article is currently self-contradictory. COmments? Andrew Jameson ( talk) 15:14, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
Seasonal Afffective Disorder (SAD)is commonly related to the type of sun's rays people are exposed to. In cold months of the year there are no UVB rays which are a direct sunlight beam. UVA sunlight beams are the only type people, plants, animals reeive on their skin in the cold months unless they live or vacation near to the equator. UVB sunlight rays are essential to the body and mind of humans and animals because they allow the production of Vitamin D3 in the skin. This is the main reason many people need phototherapy or light therapy in the cold months of the year. There are other forms of Vitamin D (see vitamin D in Wikipedia) mushrooms, oily fish like herring or sardine, or salmon. We could also take a vitamin supplement but make sure it is vitamin D3 because that is the most potent form. SAD is most commonly found in northerly areas during the colder months of the year. People with darker skin are more likely to be affected by SAD because they are more use to UVB rays by genetic inheritance, in other words their ancestors lived near to the equator. I would like to list some early signs of vitamin D deficiency caused by lack of UVB light exposure and hope some other people would contribute to these early signs. Nail growth is poor and nails become brittle, feeling extremely irrritable and not in need of socializing or sex, frequent overeating and indigestion of the nature of constipation. I feel the mind can actually see what goes through the gastointestinal tract, when vitamin D is under consumed the mind simply consticts the gastrointestinal tract untill more vitamin D is consumed. In conclusion, before we had access to alternative types of vitamin D I believe early humans who lived in areas a greater distance from the equator where extremely light skin colored and hibernated due to the SAD effects of the lack of UVB rays of the SUN. 72.171.0.145 ( talk) 21:37, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Over a year ago, I put the first notes about summertime depression into this article. At first, all referenced to non-winter SAD were removed. I put them back with references (which was the reason someone removed them), and am delighted to see that they've stuck and gained a little bit of information. Sharing information is what this is about, right?
What I want to know next: sufferers of SSAD/WSAD (summer/winter season affective disorder): do you consider yourself a "morning person" or a "night person"? I suspect that there may be a link between "night people" and SSAD sufferers.
EmmettTheSane ( talk) 13:31, 28 June 2009 (UTC)
Not every article that focuses on the Northern climes has a systemic bias. Obviously a condition exacerbated by seasonal shifts will be more prevalent in North America and Europe than in other places, simply because the seasonal shifts in light and temperature are greater in those places. This is not systemic bias. The descriptions and statistics from Europe balance the American ones quite well here. I need a really good reason to keep that systemic bias banner. Mdw0 ( talk) 07:56, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
no one has considered pollen disorders,not food labled,try cutting down on its exposure and food consumtion during the summer and see what withdrawel effects you get in the winter,we are not like most birds who migrate for pollen all year round — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paulbown ( talk • contribs) 08:16, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
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