![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
If a movie or TV show has an article, then cites such as the IMDB reference belong in the article. The footnotes are going to get long enough on this as is. -- Gadget850 ( Ed) 13:47, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
If anyone want to add notable stamps, go ahead. The SOSSI site has good references, but there are an enormous number of stamps out there. -- Gadget850 ( Ed) 19:52, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
Propose that Fictional Eagle Scouts be merged to here, and the following text added to the beginning of List of Eagle Scouts:
During almost a century of existence, Scouting has entered into many elements of popular culture, including movies, TV and books. A number of Eagle Scouts have appeared in fiction, as noted in Scouting in popular culture. -- Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:17, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
I think we need to tighten up the criteria a bit before this list strangles on cruft. We should only include references to Scouting only where they are central to the plot of the book or show. We should not include references where Scouts have only a minor appearance. By this criteria, the 3rd Rock from the Sun episode "I Enjoy Being a Dick" would be excluded, whereas "I Brake for Dick" would be excluded included.
--
Gadget850 ( Ed)
15:54, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
And move these from TV to the fictional Eagle Scout list (I think most of them are already there, so they are duplicates):
-- Gadget850 ( Ed) 22:58, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
I remember a controversial TV film in the 1970's broadcast in the UK with the above title (Cockney Rhyming slang for 'Scouts'). It caused a furore amongst the Scouting establishment at the time and has never been mentioned since. Did it really exist or is it a figment of my imagination?
Mspice2215 17:34, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
It is spelled Brussel Sprouts. I did not find anything in a quick search. An early pejorative jeer towards Boy Scouts was "Here come the Brussel Sprouts, The stinking, blinking louts." -- Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:47, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Spelling mistake corrected! :-) I was still a Scout when this came out and can remember reading about it in 'Scouting Magazine' The film portrayed a bumbling and incompetant Scout Master, I never saw it myself. Mspice2215 11:19, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
I think this screenshot should be included. There are precious few instances of Boy Scouts being depicted in movies (as opposed to merely mentioned) and this is one of the most well-known ones. Neither WP:FAIR nor US law requires "critical commentary". Providing "critical commentary" makes it more likely that a court would find in your favor if you are ever sued for copyright infringement, but it is not a necessary standard. This is a notable example of Boy Scouts being depicted in a movie and is thus significant to the topic. -- B ( talk) 13:40, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Merge Girl Scout Cookies in popular culture. This is a split from Girl Scout Cookie, most of which was a fork from this article to begin with. -- Gadget850 ( talk) 20:57, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
merge here Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) ( talk) 06:45, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
I can understand why it would be used for tv sections or books etc, but I just feel that if you are going to make a list like this for films, then chronological order makes a lot more sense. I came to this page because I remembered a film about scouts and wanted to remember the name of it, but I could not find it on here because it was too difficult to see it. If it had been in chronological order, at least I could have confined my search to the 1980's and 1990's. Wild ste ( talk) 18:02, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
I am again removing a reference to a non-notable work added by a blocked sockpuppet. Flowanda | Talk 07:22, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
I have added a "citation needed" tag to the new "Doctor Who" entry. In particular I think the actual quote needs sourcing. Since this show is a British show, I doubt it would use the US term "merit badge" which is not used in the UK. They were called proficiency badges when that show went out. -- Bduke (Discussion) 22:37, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
I'm watching "It Happened to Jane" from 1959, and I was struck by the fact that they were real cub scouts, as opposed to some fictional name like "kitten campers" or something. Usually when I see current films/TV that deal with scouting, they are made-up organizations that have no relation to the actual scouting organizations. I was coming here to see if the actual organizations had requirements that they not be portrayed in film, or if there was a potential for a lawsuit if they were portrayed negatively. Another possibility is that the names, uniform designs, etc., are trademarked and can't be used without permission.
The only line in the article says [not verified in body] and is as follows: Scouting is often dealt with in a humorous manner, as in the 1989 film Troop Beverly Hills, and is often fictionalized so that the audience knows the topic is Scouting without there being any mention of Scouting by name.
That line barely touches on the issue, and as Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, I was hoping to see some statements or policies from some of the organizations involving representation on film.
I also wouldn't mind seeing the list separated into "real" scouting (such as in It Happened to Jane) and "fake" scouting, where the show uses whatever made-up name instead of Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Campfire Girls, Cub Scouts, etc. 98.162.209.39 ( talk) 15:51, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
There is already a comment in this article, in the TV section, which says that a character merely being a scout does not merit inclusion on this page. Evrik, do you dispute that minimum standard for including an example? Because I'd be glad to show you an RFC consensus that sets the bar even higher than that. 24.7.14.87 ( talk) 03:54, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
Here's the RFC from October 2015, which states that popular culture examples must, in almost all cases, be cited to a secondary source outside the pop culture work itself. I believe this standard should be enforced, but I don't enforce it when editing IPC sections because there would be nothing left of most of them, and then certain editors would accuse me of vandalism and engage in revert wars. However, I do require that (1) pop culture examples are complete sentences, rather than brief callouts of the work's title, and (2) that the cultural reference is not merely "in passing," such that its removal would not appreciably alter the work. I investigate this if I can find online resources to do so, but if I can't then I rely on information provided in the example itself. The comment in this article indicates that I'm not the only editor who believes that such a standard should be applied here. Most of the article meets those standards, and I don't know why it's so important to you to keep the parts that do not. If you want a different standard applied other than mine or the one in the RFC, you can appeal to the editor community.
By the way, it is somewhat difficult to assume good faith on your part when you revert changes that merely move comments from one end of a section to the other and then leave a nastygram on my talk page for it. So don't do that please. 24.7.14.87 ( talk) 20:42, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
Evrik, you asked me to come to the talk page, so I came. Is there anything you want to say, or will you continue to revert all of my changes without explanation? 24.7.14.87 ( talk) 18:05, 25 March 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
If a movie or TV show has an article, then cites such as the IMDB reference belong in the article. The footnotes are going to get long enough on this as is. -- Gadget850 ( Ed) 13:47, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
If anyone want to add notable stamps, go ahead. The SOSSI site has good references, but there are an enormous number of stamps out there. -- Gadget850 ( Ed) 19:52, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
Propose that Fictional Eagle Scouts be merged to here, and the following text added to the beginning of List of Eagle Scouts:
During almost a century of existence, Scouting has entered into many elements of popular culture, including movies, TV and books. A number of Eagle Scouts have appeared in fiction, as noted in Scouting in popular culture. -- Gadget850 ( Ed) 16:17, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
I think we need to tighten up the criteria a bit before this list strangles on cruft. We should only include references to Scouting only where they are central to the plot of the book or show. We should not include references where Scouts have only a minor appearance. By this criteria, the 3rd Rock from the Sun episode "I Enjoy Being a Dick" would be excluded, whereas "I Brake for Dick" would be excluded included.
--
Gadget850 ( Ed)
15:54, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
And move these from TV to the fictional Eagle Scout list (I think most of them are already there, so they are duplicates):
-- Gadget850 ( Ed) 22:58, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
I remember a controversial TV film in the 1970's broadcast in the UK with the above title (Cockney Rhyming slang for 'Scouts'). It caused a furore amongst the Scouting establishment at the time and has never been mentioned since. Did it really exist or is it a figment of my imagination?
Mspice2215 17:34, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
It is spelled Brussel Sprouts. I did not find anything in a quick search. An early pejorative jeer towards Boy Scouts was "Here come the Brussel Sprouts, The stinking, blinking louts." -- Gadget850 ( Ed) 17:47, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Spelling mistake corrected! :-) I was still a Scout when this came out and can remember reading about it in 'Scouting Magazine' The film portrayed a bumbling and incompetant Scout Master, I never saw it myself. Mspice2215 11:19, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
I think this screenshot should be included. There are precious few instances of Boy Scouts being depicted in movies (as opposed to merely mentioned) and this is one of the most well-known ones. Neither WP:FAIR nor US law requires "critical commentary". Providing "critical commentary" makes it more likely that a court would find in your favor if you are ever sued for copyright infringement, but it is not a necessary standard. This is a notable example of Boy Scouts being depicted in a movie and is thus significant to the topic. -- B ( talk) 13:40, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Merge Girl Scout Cookies in popular culture. This is a split from Girl Scout Cookie, most of which was a fork from this article to begin with. -- Gadget850 ( talk) 20:57, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
merge here Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) ( talk) 06:45, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
I can understand why it would be used for tv sections or books etc, but I just feel that if you are going to make a list like this for films, then chronological order makes a lot more sense. I came to this page because I remembered a film about scouts and wanted to remember the name of it, but I could not find it on here because it was too difficult to see it. If it had been in chronological order, at least I could have confined my search to the 1980's and 1990's. Wild ste ( talk) 18:02, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
I am again removing a reference to a non-notable work added by a blocked sockpuppet. Flowanda | Talk 07:22, 10 March 2011 (UTC)
I have added a "citation needed" tag to the new "Doctor Who" entry. In particular I think the actual quote needs sourcing. Since this show is a British show, I doubt it would use the US term "merit badge" which is not used in the UK. They were called proficiency badges when that show went out. -- Bduke (Discussion) 22:37, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
I'm watching "It Happened to Jane" from 1959, and I was struck by the fact that they were real cub scouts, as opposed to some fictional name like "kitten campers" or something. Usually when I see current films/TV that deal with scouting, they are made-up organizations that have no relation to the actual scouting organizations. I was coming here to see if the actual organizations had requirements that they not be portrayed in film, or if there was a potential for a lawsuit if they were portrayed negatively. Another possibility is that the names, uniform designs, etc., are trademarked and can't be used without permission.
The only line in the article says [not verified in body] and is as follows: Scouting is often dealt with in a humorous manner, as in the 1989 film Troop Beverly Hills, and is often fictionalized so that the audience knows the topic is Scouting without there being any mention of Scouting by name.
That line barely touches on the issue, and as Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, I was hoping to see some statements or policies from some of the organizations involving representation on film.
I also wouldn't mind seeing the list separated into "real" scouting (such as in It Happened to Jane) and "fake" scouting, where the show uses whatever made-up name instead of Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Campfire Girls, Cub Scouts, etc. 98.162.209.39 ( talk) 15:51, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
There is already a comment in this article, in the TV section, which says that a character merely being a scout does not merit inclusion on this page. Evrik, do you dispute that minimum standard for including an example? Because I'd be glad to show you an RFC consensus that sets the bar even higher than that. 24.7.14.87 ( talk) 03:54, 22 March 2018 (UTC)
Here's the RFC from October 2015, which states that popular culture examples must, in almost all cases, be cited to a secondary source outside the pop culture work itself. I believe this standard should be enforced, but I don't enforce it when editing IPC sections because there would be nothing left of most of them, and then certain editors would accuse me of vandalism and engage in revert wars. However, I do require that (1) pop culture examples are complete sentences, rather than brief callouts of the work's title, and (2) that the cultural reference is not merely "in passing," such that its removal would not appreciably alter the work. I investigate this if I can find online resources to do so, but if I can't then I rely on information provided in the example itself. The comment in this article indicates that I'm not the only editor who believes that such a standard should be applied here. Most of the article meets those standards, and I don't know why it's so important to you to keep the parts that do not. If you want a different standard applied other than mine or the one in the RFC, you can appeal to the editor community.
By the way, it is somewhat difficult to assume good faith on your part when you revert changes that merely move comments from one end of a section to the other and then leave a nastygram on my talk page for it. So don't do that please. 24.7.14.87 ( talk) 20:42, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
Evrik, you asked me to come to the talk page, so I came. Is there anything you want to say, or will you continue to revert all of my changes without explanation? 24.7.14.87 ( talk) 18:05, 25 March 2018 (UTC)