This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 15 | ← | Archive 18 | Archive 19 | Archive 20 | Archive 21 | Archive 22 | → | Archive 25 |
"The Church of Scientology and its activities have been the subject of controversy in the past decades. A variety of reports and allegations have been made by journalists, and legal cases have been brought by and against the Church, claiming harassment and harm by and against Church critics. [1] [2]"
Discuss it here. Since there is no reason to revert this at all, then consensus needs to be reached through discussion only Wikidan829 19:11, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
I would like ask everyone to refrain from using the acronym POV as a term indicating biased statements. Per Help:Describing points of view#Usage note, it is clear that this is not actually a useable definition of the word and that it inhibits fully effective communication between editors. In cases where neutrality is in question, I would like to remind everyone that words and phrases such as bias, non-neutral, opinion/opinionated, subjective/subjectivity will more clearly get your point across. -- Oni Ookami Alfador Talk| @ 19:21, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
@everyone who wants to contribute here! Please lets first discuss the structure of the introduction here and reach agreement. For detailed contributions on the content I would recomment to open up a new section !!! -- Stan talk 00:46, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
My suggestions would be:
1. general informations about scientology(members worldwide, the founder, different groups)
2. explain the beliefs and practices
3. overview of the controversy
any comments, additions or corrections for that ? If we could reach agreement on this we could start to discuss in detail. --
Stan
talk
21:40, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
SheffieldSteel: Brief definition,origin(inc LRH, Dianetics) , I agree that it is notable. With membership I wanted to make statements related to the demographics. (How many members wordwide, in wich regions of the world with higher representaion etc.) I agree with you and RookZERO that on "beliefs and practices" must be applied a little bit
WP:UNDUE. I think it should be reduced to 1/3 of size of the introduction. --
Stan
talk
23:51, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
1. Brief definition/origin
This first paragraph goes strait to the point. The second paragraph is too much info for the intro. I recommend change the second paragraph to:
2. Beliefs and practices
The first paragraph goes strait to the point. The second is nice but could be elsewhere is the article, there isn’t enough coverage on the different applications of Scientology like drug rehabilitation and educational programs. The third paragraph is ok.
I recomend adding this paragraph:
3. Membership
4. Controversy and criticism
This line introduces the controversy and criticism nicely. The intro is no place for explanations, just introductions.
Bravehartbear 23:24, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
Actually, the cofs was founded in late 1953.-- Fahrenheit451 01:44, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
DavidCooke, sounds like a good start to me. ( RookZERO 01:28, 22 June 2007 (UTC))
For the Church of Scientology and the word founded, the key date would be December 1953 when the first Church of Scientology of New Jersey was incorporated (and the parent Church of American Science). Before then, there were loose Scientology Clubs and HASI, with no religious organization. (TIME's Remember Venus and the incorporation papers for refs.)
The controversy paragraph implies that only journalists and critics were involved in the "reports and allegations", and "harassment and harm". The "back and forth" with governments should also rate a terse mention. AndroidCat 03:23, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
"Moscow City Court dismissed an outstanding and completely fabricated criminal investigation arising from raids on two of our churches in Moscow in February 1999. The Court found no evidence to substantiate the prosecutor's allegations, while the Church provided a wealth of evidence documenting the glaring errors and distortions in the investigation. That dismissal became final in May 2001 when the Court rejected the prosecutor's appeal."
The Office for the Protection of the Constitution (Verfassungsschutz), a branch of the federal government in Germany, also monitors Scientology (see the German embassy website at http://www.germany.info/relaunch/info/archives/background/scientology.html for the official statement from the German government). This is in addition to the City of Hamburg's own group. In Russia, while the FSB Task Force on Scientology failed to turn up evidence in one particular raid, the task force's existance doesn't seem to be in contention. ( RookZERO 02:18, 23 June 2007 (UTC))
There's another confirmation for German federal monitoring at the German Verfassungsschutz's own webpage ( http://www.verfassungsschutz.de/en/en_fields_of_work/scientology/). Give me a couple minutes and I'll see if I can find an official source for Russia. ( RookZERO 02:49, 23 June 2007 (UTC))
I found information in this article that is false. The original barley formula was made with honey, I remember this clearly. I think it is in the book “the second dynamic”. Later because a warning about bacteria in honey, honey was changed to corn syrup. This change was not made by LRH. I remember reading the change. Bravehartbear 01:54, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Justanother is correct, it was general advice. There was no rash of Scn babies dying, but Some may have. COFS wants the GO issue number. That I did not commit to memory, but I can tell you that it was only one page from the time period I stated. Many GOs were reissued later as OSA Network Orders, but I would bet that this one did not make it. Aside from being a bit off-topic. I believe that OSA Int has a GO archive and that may be located there.-- Fahrenheit451 23:34, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Looking at his references for which countries recognize Scientology as a religion, many are sourced to Heber Jentzsch, president of Church of Scientology International, "The Growth of Scientolgy" [2]. (Some are even sourced back to Wikipedia in 2004.) AndroidCat 03:19, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
I want to apologise to RockZero for reverting him on a disagrement over the legal status of Scientology in Russia. I did more research the court order states:
http://www.cesnur.org/2007/scientology.html
"106...the Court has established the Government's obligation to take appropriate measures to remedy the applicant's individual situation" "Whether such measures would involve granting re-registration to the applicant, removing the requirement to obtain re-registration from the Religions Act, re-opening of the domestic proceedings or a combination of these and other measures, is a decision that falls to the respondent State. The Court, however, emphasises that any measures adopted must be compatible with the conclusions set out in the Court's judgment (see Assanidze v. Georgia [GC], no. 71503/01, § 202, ECHR 2004-II, with further references)."
The way I see it the court gave Moscow this options:
"97. In view of the Court's finding above that the reasons invoked by the Moscow Justice Department and endorsed by the Moscow courts to deny re-registration of the applicant branch had no legal basis, it can be inferred that, in denying registration to the Church of Scientology of Moscow, the Moscow authorities did not act in good faith and neglected their duty of neutrality and impartiality vis-à-vis the applicant's religious community"
Scientology was already registered in Moscow as a religion so one way or another this registration needs to be continued. The court didn't said how, it just said that it must be done. Also it granted punitive damages in favor of Scientology. So we can assume that Scientology is once again registered as a religion in Moscow. To deny this would be simply hard headed. Bravehartbear 08:14, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
1. Holds that the applicant may claim to be a “victim” for the purposes of Article 34 of the Convention;
2. Holds that there has been a violation of Article 11 of the Convention read in the light of Article 9;
3. Holds that no separate examination of the same issues under Article 14 of the Convention is required;
4. Holds
(a) that the respondent State is to pay the applicant, within three months from the date on which the judgment becomes final in accordance with Article 44 § 2 of the Convention, the following amounts, to be converted into Russian roubles at the rate applicable at the date of the settlement,
(i) EUR 10,000 (ten thousand euros) in respect of non-pecuniary damage;
(ii) EUR 15,000 (fifteen thousand euros) in respect of costs and expenses;
(iii) any tax that may be chargeable on the above amounts;
(b) that from the expiry of the above-mentioned three months until settlement simple interest shall be payable on the above amounts at a rate equal to the marginal lending rate of the European Central Bank during the default period plus three percentage points;
5. Dismisses the remainder of the applicant's claim for just satisfaction.
Done in English, and notified in writing on 5 April 2007, pursuant to Rule 77 §§ 2 and 3 of the Rules of Court." Note that Nowhere in the court's holding did it compell Russia to recognize Scientology. It DID decide that the 15 year rule was not a limit to Scientology, along with several other objections that the government raised. ( RookZERO 17:25, 23 June 2007 (UTC))
"Whether such measures would involve granting re-registration to the applicant" "removing the requirement to obtain re-registration from the Religions Act". This is what the court expects. I see your point but still Moscow has to do something compatible with the findings. And the findings are:
Is it possible to find third party (non-scientology and non-critic site) confirmation for Scientology's legal status in Tanzania and Zimbabwe? ( RookZERO 23:40, 23 June 2007 (UTC))
Ok guys this is the deal; we will give NPOV citations precedence. But as long as there isn't any conflicting evidence citations by the church of Scientology are fine, specially press releases. I don't want to hear more complains on this issue. If you have conflicting evidence bring it up if not let me be. Bravehartbear 05:16, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
I checked the citation for South Africa. While they indicate that Scientology will be allowed to conduct legal marriage ceremonies, I saw no indication that South Africa recognized Scientology as a religion. Is there a third party citation or referance for the religious status of Scientology is South Africa? ( RookZERO 18:22, 24 June 2007 (UTC))
Why is there a large and growing section in this article which either belongs in the Church of Scientology article or is already covered in List of Scientology organizations? The links to the various orgs are just link-spam rather than references. AndroidCat 02:47, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
just wanted to write the same: (; I noticed that there are listed almost 20 major churches(orgs). Everey org has its own link. But there are about 130 organizations world wide. I don't think its informative. Major Italien orgs are not listed for example. I think it would be more informative to state the total number of organizations and also numbers on each continent or country. Baravehartbear opened also a new sub-title "Scientology Missions". Thats fine with me but writing about exotic countries is POV. Indians probably don't like to be called "exotic". I would like to change it and give an overview and show the total number on each country or continent. Would be more informative. Only selecting some orgs and mission is POV anyway. It would reduce 30 links to probably two or three links.-- Stan talk 02:52, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
That works, we just have to put it in plain English. I'm sorry about getting emotional earlier. You want me to do or you want to? Hey ad 1 for Latam Venezuela made Saint Hill size! I know those #s are not right but at least they are close. Let say those are the mayor orgs. Lets keep the language ambigious. Bravehartbear 04:37, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Churches of Scientology can be found in the USA, Mexico, Canada, Venezuela, Puerto Rico, Spain, United Kingdom, Germany, France, Italy, Denmark, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, S. Africa and Russia
Just want to compliment Stan and Bravehart on working together harmoniously in a spirit of co-operation. Well done, guys! Keep it up. -- Justanother 11:57, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Since the University of Miami warns about a threat to the life of innocent children caused by the formerly mentioned recipe, I made that paragraph invisible. We see here already the consequences of this possibly misleading information (a wikipedian who is allegedly a citizen of F.Rep.GERM insinuates that Scientology causes scurvy -- hopefully Tom Cruise's child gets better food). I would like to point out, that there is no source given, that this weeds-slime is really the complete infant-diet, that Hubbard/SCN recommends. I would guess, that SCN recommends some smashed fruits and vegetables (and I dont know what they recommended in the 60ies). -- Homer Landskirty 15:43, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Homer, do you have access to the entire article? -- Justanother 19:16, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
It happens in all religions that people misunderstand the writings. I never said it is plot or that the whole section on silent birth should be deleted. But certanly that people that gave that formula to an 2 year old child realy mess up. Bravehartbear 19:22, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Briefly, the 'barley formula' as recommended by Hubbard is missing certain
vital vitamins. It should not be used as a complete baby food. This was corrected by a FLAG instruction in 1980, which gave sound medical advice. The instruction was withdrawn in 1991 and the 1994 Scientology handbook went back to the original, specifically ruling out extra vitamins.
The abstract for the 'scurvy' scientific article is in lots of places:
Vitasearch
Websciences
Pubmed
If you want to quote a reference the last (PubMed) is best. The full text
is online but only through pay to view or subscription services. --
Hartley Patterson
18:31, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
"The US Government makes no claim to Scientology's legitimacy through tax-exempt status as this is also granted to non-religious entities, such as the Red Cross[122] or the Wikimedia Foundation, which runs the online encyclopedia Wikipedia."
OH COME ON! Is Wikipedia now the place for shameless and completely abstract shameless self promotion?! The Red Cross, fine, everybody knows what the Red Cross is... but including the Wikimedia Foundation in that sentence?! *head shake* --Signed and Sealed, JJJJust ( T C) 05:27, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
state.gov "Once the Government recognizes them, religious confessional communities have juridical standing, which permits them to engage in such activities as purchasing real estate in their own names and contracting for goods and services. A religious group that seeks to obtain this new status is subject to a six-month waiting period from the time of application to the Ministry of Education and Culture. According to the ministry, as of May 2006, thirteen groups had applied for the status of religious confessional community, and ten were granted the new status. The Church of Scientology and the Hindu Mandir Association withdrew their applications. The Hindu Mandir Association reapplied under the name Hindu Religious Community and was granted the new status. The ministry rejected the application of the Sahaja Yoga group in 1998. Since then, its decision has been upheld in the Constitutional Court and Administrative Court. I will take austria out again. and i am still suspicious about this countries: Italy, Taiwan, Zimbabwe ... -- Stan talk 22:36, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
goodbye italy italian supreme court-- Stan talk 22:45, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
The decision follows the previous Supreme Court decision of October 7, 1997 which stated that Scientology is a religion, rejecting several objection from anti-cult sources.
In fact, the Italian IRS in decisions about local branches of the Church of Scientology has decided that auditing is not taxable, and the Justice Court of Turin in a final decision came to the same conclusion, thus settling a long battle between the local branches of the Church of Scientology and of the IRS.
There is a guy just deleting stuff Neilbeach. I don't know how to give warnings. Could some one please take care of this. Bravehartbear 00:36, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
{{
cite news}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help); More than one of |author=
and |last=
specified (
help).
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 15 | ← | Archive 18 | Archive 19 | Archive 20 | Archive 21 | Archive 22 | → | Archive 25 |
"The Church of Scientology and its activities have been the subject of controversy in the past decades. A variety of reports and allegations have been made by journalists, and legal cases have been brought by and against the Church, claiming harassment and harm by and against Church critics. [1] [2]"
Discuss it here. Since there is no reason to revert this at all, then consensus needs to be reached through discussion only Wikidan829 19:11, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
I would like ask everyone to refrain from using the acronym POV as a term indicating biased statements. Per Help:Describing points of view#Usage note, it is clear that this is not actually a useable definition of the word and that it inhibits fully effective communication between editors. In cases where neutrality is in question, I would like to remind everyone that words and phrases such as bias, non-neutral, opinion/opinionated, subjective/subjectivity will more clearly get your point across. -- Oni Ookami Alfador Talk| @ 19:21, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
@everyone who wants to contribute here! Please lets first discuss the structure of the introduction here and reach agreement. For detailed contributions on the content I would recomment to open up a new section !!! -- Stan talk 00:46, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
My suggestions would be:
1. general informations about scientology(members worldwide, the founder, different groups)
2. explain the beliefs and practices
3. overview of the controversy
any comments, additions or corrections for that ? If we could reach agreement on this we could start to discuss in detail. --
Stan
talk
21:40, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
SheffieldSteel: Brief definition,origin(inc LRH, Dianetics) , I agree that it is notable. With membership I wanted to make statements related to the demographics. (How many members wordwide, in wich regions of the world with higher representaion etc.) I agree with you and RookZERO that on "beliefs and practices" must be applied a little bit
WP:UNDUE. I think it should be reduced to 1/3 of size of the introduction. --
Stan
talk
23:51, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
1. Brief definition/origin
This first paragraph goes strait to the point. The second paragraph is too much info for the intro. I recommend change the second paragraph to:
2. Beliefs and practices
The first paragraph goes strait to the point. The second is nice but could be elsewhere is the article, there isn’t enough coverage on the different applications of Scientology like drug rehabilitation and educational programs. The third paragraph is ok.
I recomend adding this paragraph:
3. Membership
4. Controversy and criticism
This line introduces the controversy and criticism nicely. The intro is no place for explanations, just introductions.
Bravehartbear 23:24, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
Actually, the cofs was founded in late 1953.-- Fahrenheit451 01:44, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
DavidCooke, sounds like a good start to me. ( RookZERO 01:28, 22 June 2007 (UTC))
For the Church of Scientology and the word founded, the key date would be December 1953 when the first Church of Scientology of New Jersey was incorporated (and the parent Church of American Science). Before then, there were loose Scientology Clubs and HASI, with no religious organization. (TIME's Remember Venus and the incorporation papers for refs.)
The controversy paragraph implies that only journalists and critics were involved in the "reports and allegations", and "harassment and harm". The "back and forth" with governments should also rate a terse mention. AndroidCat 03:23, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
"Moscow City Court dismissed an outstanding and completely fabricated criminal investigation arising from raids on two of our churches in Moscow in February 1999. The Court found no evidence to substantiate the prosecutor's allegations, while the Church provided a wealth of evidence documenting the glaring errors and distortions in the investigation. That dismissal became final in May 2001 when the Court rejected the prosecutor's appeal."
The Office for the Protection of the Constitution (Verfassungsschutz), a branch of the federal government in Germany, also monitors Scientology (see the German embassy website at http://www.germany.info/relaunch/info/archives/background/scientology.html for the official statement from the German government). This is in addition to the City of Hamburg's own group. In Russia, while the FSB Task Force on Scientology failed to turn up evidence in one particular raid, the task force's existance doesn't seem to be in contention. ( RookZERO 02:18, 23 June 2007 (UTC))
There's another confirmation for German federal monitoring at the German Verfassungsschutz's own webpage ( http://www.verfassungsschutz.de/en/en_fields_of_work/scientology/). Give me a couple minutes and I'll see if I can find an official source for Russia. ( RookZERO 02:49, 23 June 2007 (UTC))
I found information in this article that is false. The original barley formula was made with honey, I remember this clearly. I think it is in the book “the second dynamic”. Later because a warning about bacteria in honey, honey was changed to corn syrup. This change was not made by LRH. I remember reading the change. Bravehartbear 01:54, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Justanother is correct, it was general advice. There was no rash of Scn babies dying, but Some may have. COFS wants the GO issue number. That I did not commit to memory, but I can tell you that it was only one page from the time period I stated. Many GOs were reissued later as OSA Network Orders, but I would bet that this one did not make it. Aside from being a bit off-topic. I believe that OSA Int has a GO archive and that may be located there.-- Fahrenheit451 23:34, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
Looking at his references for which countries recognize Scientology as a religion, many are sourced to Heber Jentzsch, president of Church of Scientology International, "The Growth of Scientolgy" [2]. (Some are even sourced back to Wikipedia in 2004.) AndroidCat 03:19, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
I want to apologise to RockZero for reverting him on a disagrement over the legal status of Scientology in Russia. I did more research the court order states:
http://www.cesnur.org/2007/scientology.html
"106...the Court has established the Government's obligation to take appropriate measures to remedy the applicant's individual situation" "Whether such measures would involve granting re-registration to the applicant, removing the requirement to obtain re-registration from the Religions Act, re-opening of the domestic proceedings or a combination of these and other measures, is a decision that falls to the respondent State. The Court, however, emphasises that any measures adopted must be compatible with the conclusions set out in the Court's judgment (see Assanidze v. Georgia [GC], no. 71503/01, § 202, ECHR 2004-II, with further references)."
The way I see it the court gave Moscow this options:
"97. In view of the Court's finding above that the reasons invoked by the Moscow Justice Department and endorsed by the Moscow courts to deny re-registration of the applicant branch had no legal basis, it can be inferred that, in denying registration to the Church of Scientology of Moscow, the Moscow authorities did not act in good faith and neglected their duty of neutrality and impartiality vis-à-vis the applicant's religious community"
Scientology was already registered in Moscow as a religion so one way or another this registration needs to be continued. The court didn't said how, it just said that it must be done. Also it granted punitive damages in favor of Scientology. So we can assume that Scientology is once again registered as a religion in Moscow. To deny this would be simply hard headed. Bravehartbear 08:14, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
1. Holds that the applicant may claim to be a “victim” for the purposes of Article 34 of the Convention;
2. Holds that there has been a violation of Article 11 of the Convention read in the light of Article 9;
3. Holds that no separate examination of the same issues under Article 14 of the Convention is required;
4. Holds
(a) that the respondent State is to pay the applicant, within three months from the date on which the judgment becomes final in accordance with Article 44 § 2 of the Convention, the following amounts, to be converted into Russian roubles at the rate applicable at the date of the settlement,
(i) EUR 10,000 (ten thousand euros) in respect of non-pecuniary damage;
(ii) EUR 15,000 (fifteen thousand euros) in respect of costs and expenses;
(iii) any tax that may be chargeable on the above amounts;
(b) that from the expiry of the above-mentioned three months until settlement simple interest shall be payable on the above amounts at a rate equal to the marginal lending rate of the European Central Bank during the default period plus three percentage points;
5. Dismisses the remainder of the applicant's claim for just satisfaction.
Done in English, and notified in writing on 5 April 2007, pursuant to Rule 77 §§ 2 and 3 of the Rules of Court." Note that Nowhere in the court's holding did it compell Russia to recognize Scientology. It DID decide that the 15 year rule was not a limit to Scientology, along with several other objections that the government raised. ( RookZERO 17:25, 23 June 2007 (UTC))
"Whether such measures would involve granting re-registration to the applicant" "removing the requirement to obtain re-registration from the Religions Act". This is what the court expects. I see your point but still Moscow has to do something compatible with the findings. And the findings are:
Is it possible to find third party (non-scientology and non-critic site) confirmation for Scientology's legal status in Tanzania and Zimbabwe? ( RookZERO 23:40, 23 June 2007 (UTC))
Ok guys this is the deal; we will give NPOV citations precedence. But as long as there isn't any conflicting evidence citations by the church of Scientology are fine, specially press releases. I don't want to hear more complains on this issue. If you have conflicting evidence bring it up if not let me be. Bravehartbear 05:16, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
I checked the citation for South Africa. While they indicate that Scientology will be allowed to conduct legal marriage ceremonies, I saw no indication that South Africa recognized Scientology as a religion. Is there a third party citation or referance for the religious status of Scientology is South Africa? ( RookZERO 18:22, 24 June 2007 (UTC))
Why is there a large and growing section in this article which either belongs in the Church of Scientology article or is already covered in List of Scientology organizations? The links to the various orgs are just link-spam rather than references. AndroidCat 02:47, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
just wanted to write the same: (; I noticed that there are listed almost 20 major churches(orgs). Everey org has its own link. But there are about 130 organizations world wide. I don't think its informative. Major Italien orgs are not listed for example. I think it would be more informative to state the total number of organizations and also numbers on each continent or country. Baravehartbear opened also a new sub-title "Scientology Missions". Thats fine with me but writing about exotic countries is POV. Indians probably don't like to be called "exotic". I would like to change it and give an overview and show the total number on each country or continent. Would be more informative. Only selecting some orgs and mission is POV anyway. It would reduce 30 links to probably two or three links.-- Stan talk 02:52, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
That works, we just have to put it in plain English. I'm sorry about getting emotional earlier. You want me to do or you want to? Hey ad 1 for Latam Venezuela made Saint Hill size! I know those #s are not right but at least they are close. Let say those are the mayor orgs. Lets keep the language ambigious. Bravehartbear 04:37, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Churches of Scientology can be found in the USA, Mexico, Canada, Venezuela, Puerto Rico, Spain, United Kingdom, Germany, France, Italy, Denmark, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, S. Africa and Russia
Just want to compliment Stan and Bravehart on working together harmoniously in a spirit of co-operation. Well done, guys! Keep it up. -- Justanother 11:57, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Since the University of Miami warns about a threat to the life of innocent children caused by the formerly mentioned recipe, I made that paragraph invisible. We see here already the consequences of this possibly misleading information (a wikipedian who is allegedly a citizen of F.Rep.GERM insinuates that Scientology causes scurvy -- hopefully Tom Cruise's child gets better food). I would like to point out, that there is no source given, that this weeds-slime is really the complete infant-diet, that Hubbard/SCN recommends. I would guess, that SCN recommends some smashed fruits and vegetables (and I dont know what they recommended in the 60ies). -- Homer Landskirty 15:43, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Homer, do you have access to the entire article? -- Justanother 19:16, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
It happens in all religions that people misunderstand the writings. I never said it is plot or that the whole section on silent birth should be deleted. But certanly that people that gave that formula to an 2 year old child realy mess up. Bravehartbear 19:22, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Briefly, the 'barley formula' as recommended by Hubbard is missing certain
vital vitamins. It should not be used as a complete baby food. This was corrected by a FLAG instruction in 1980, which gave sound medical advice. The instruction was withdrawn in 1991 and the 1994 Scientology handbook went back to the original, specifically ruling out extra vitamins.
The abstract for the 'scurvy' scientific article is in lots of places:
Vitasearch
Websciences
Pubmed
If you want to quote a reference the last (PubMed) is best. The full text
is online but only through pay to view or subscription services. --
Hartley Patterson
18:31, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
"The US Government makes no claim to Scientology's legitimacy through tax-exempt status as this is also granted to non-religious entities, such as the Red Cross[122] or the Wikimedia Foundation, which runs the online encyclopedia Wikipedia."
OH COME ON! Is Wikipedia now the place for shameless and completely abstract shameless self promotion?! The Red Cross, fine, everybody knows what the Red Cross is... but including the Wikimedia Foundation in that sentence?! *head shake* --Signed and Sealed, JJJJust ( T C) 05:27, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
state.gov "Once the Government recognizes them, religious confessional communities have juridical standing, which permits them to engage in such activities as purchasing real estate in their own names and contracting for goods and services. A religious group that seeks to obtain this new status is subject to a six-month waiting period from the time of application to the Ministry of Education and Culture. According to the ministry, as of May 2006, thirteen groups had applied for the status of religious confessional community, and ten were granted the new status. The Church of Scientology and the Hindu Mandir Association withdrew their applications. The Hindu Mandir Association reapplied under the name Hindu Religious Community and was granted the new status. The ministry rejected the application of the Sahaja Yoga group in 1998. Since then, its decision has been upheld in the Constitutional Court and Administrative Court. I will take austria out again. and i am still suspicious about this countries: Italy, Taiwan, Zimbabwe ... -- Stan talk 22:36, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
goodbye italy italian supreme court-- Stan talk 22:45, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
The decision follows the previous Supreme Court decision of October 7, 1997 which stated that Scientology is a religion, rejecting several objection from anti-cult sources.
In fact, the Italian IRS in decisions about local branches of the Church of Scientology has decided that auditing is not taxable, and the Justice Court of Turin in a final decision came to the same conclusion, thus settling a long battle between the local branches of the Church of Scientology and of the IRS.
There is a guy just deleting stuff Neilbeach. I don't know how to give warnings. Could some one please take care of this. Bravehartbear 00:36, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
{{
cite news}}
: Check date values in: |date=
(
help); More than one of |author=
and |last=
specified (
help).