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Any suggestions of what sections need to go? Bravehartbear 04:13, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
It is clear that this is a controversial subject and it is imposible to make it 100% un-bias. So I posted a POV check for neutrality. Bravehartbear 15:11, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
The intro states However, some former members and outside observers—including journalists, lawmakers, and national governing bodies of several countries—have described the Church as an unscrupulous commercial enterprise that harasses critics and defectors and exploits its members ….others view it as a pseudo religion, a cult, or a transnational corporation. This line stresses on the negative POV of Scientology with out addressing the positive. In order to make this page NPOV the positive aspects should be exposed too. Also the line about the Russian court ruling shouldn’t be there. In order to make this page These specific facts should be in the ‘Scientology as a state-recognized religion’ section-- Bravehartbear 18:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Bravehart, good job on adding sourced material, that is a Good Thing. I do think that you made the intro a bit bloated and that BT's version reads better. But your additions are good and I took a stab at a compromise to incorporate them. Please take it as a starting point. Keep up the good work, and you are right about the need to break this article up. Feel free to take the lead. -- Justanother 23:25, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
"an organization that grown into more than 4,378 Scientology churches, missions and groups worldwide since the inauguration of the Founding Church of Scientology of Washington, D.C.in 1955."
I've yet to see any evedence that hubbard was even aware of the american psychological associations stance.
ONE THING I ALWAYS WONDER ABOUT: PEOPLE SEEM TO IGNORE THAT SCIENTOLOGY HAS ALWAYS BEEN TRYING TO TAKE OVER THE BUSINESS OF PSYCHOTHERAPY, SO OF COURSE IT IS THE MOST VOCAL OPPONANT. IT HAS THE MOST TO LOOSE. . IT CLAIMS TO BE A TOTALLY DIFFERENT AND SUPERIOR SYSTEM AND WAY OF THINKING WITH HUMAN PROBLEMS. THERE IS SOME REASON TO BELEIVE THAT THAT IS TRUE. LOOK INTO REMOTE VIEWING'S ORIGONS. THERE ARE OTHER PIECES OF EVEDENCE, THAT ARE MORE MINOR. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thaddeus Slamp (talk • contribs) 05:11, 5 April 2007 (UTC).
Slump
Names Slamp. Firefox must be on a bender! , please sign your comments and stop yelling around here, I am becoming deaf.
Roger, Wilco. Every 1ce/a while I have to remind myself how much people hate all caps. Er, and get Firefox with inbuilt typo correction Is there a spelling error? Misou 05:41, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
Slamp, not Slump. -- Antaeus Feldspar 06:09, 5 April 2007 (UTC) You've yet to reply to my content. Thaddeus Slamp 23:11, 5 April 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thaddeus Slamp ( talk • contribs) 04:28, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Just to clarify; everything above the unsigned tag I just added (04:28, 7 May 2007 by Thaddeus Slamp) is one post. I guess he pasted in a thread from another location. -- Justanother 14:45, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Scientologists are horrible people look what they are doing to this poor people:
I tell you man is a cult and it needs to be stop! Bravehartbear 06:03, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Either that or he has me Xenu. Bravehartbear, CofS is a cult, and no amount of sending "volunteers" to disaster areas will stop that being true. Everyone in this project is aware of the volunteers, and also why they are used, a bunch of YouTube videos won't change that. Darrenhusted 12:57, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
This debated is irrelevent. The purpose of an encyclodedia is not to criticize or promote any organization no matter how good or how bad. The article and the talk page should focus on informing rather than convincing people of any particular viewpoint. There are plenty of places on the internet to bicker over the merits and demerits of scientology (or any other religious view for that matter). Lets not waste space having that debate here. ( RookZERO 03:51, 8 May 2007 (UTC))
Citation number 45 is a dead link and needs to be removed, and the statement in question needs an actual citation.
The US state department and the UN have condemned Germany, France and others of religiously persecuting Scientology and other religious groups. The introductions states "However, outside observers—including journalists, courts, and national governing bodies of several countries—have alleged that Scientology is an unscrupulous commercial enterprise that harasses its critics and brutally exploits its members." But this criticisms have been condemned as being unfounded bigotry and prejudice by other groups and governing bodies. And these Scientology critics have been found guilty of being bias against other religious groups too. We must differentiate between a real concerns and just plain hate, bias, bigotry and prejudice. The fact is Scientology has been joined by many religious groups, politicians, governing bodies and the UN to counter the anti-cult movement that I consider a hate group. I'm going to expose this point.
For example in Germany Scientologist:
Years of monitoring of Scientology by the German government have resulted in nothing. I intend of creating a whole new section about religious persecution of Scientology and Scientologist. And presenting the support that Scientology has received from other religious groups, governments and the UN to combat this bigotry. Currently I'm working in collecting all the citations. Bravehartbear 14:27, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | ← | Archive 15 | Archive 16 | Archive 17 | Archive 18 | Archive 19 | Archive 20 |
Any suggestions of what sections need to go? Bravehartbear 04:13, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
It is clear that this is a controversial subject and it is imposible to make it 100% un-bias. So I posted a POV check for neutrality. Bravehartbear 15:11, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
The intro states However, some former members and outside observers—including journalists, lawmakers, and national governing bodies of several countries—have described the Church as an unscrupulous commercial enterprise that harasses critics and defectors and exploits its members ….others view it as a pseudo religion, a cult, or a transnational corporation. This line stresses on the negative POV of Scientology with out addressing the positive. In order to make this page NPOV the positive aspects should be exposed too. Also the line about the Russian court ruling shouldn’t be there. In order to make this page These specific facts should be in the ‘Scientology as a state-recognized religion’ section-- Bravehartbear 18:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Bravehart, good job on adding sourced material, that is a Good Thing. I do think that you made the intro a bit bloated and that BT's version reads better. But your additions are good and I took a stab at a compromise to incorporate them. Please take it as a starting point. Keep up the good work, and you are right about the need to break this article up. Feel free to take the lead. -- Justanother 23:25, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
"an organization that grown into more than 4,378 Scientology churches, missions and groups worldwide since the inauguration of the Founding Church of Scientology of Washington, D.C.in 1955."
I've yet to see any evedence that hubbard was even aware of the american psychological associations stance.
ONE THING I ALWAYS WONDER ABOUT: PEOPLE SEEM TO IGNORE THAT SCIENTOLOGY HAS ALWAYS BEEN TRYING TO TAKE OVER THE BUSINESS OF PSYCHOTHERAPY, SO OF COURSE IT IS THE MOST VOCAL OPPONANT. IT HAS THE MOST TO LOOSE. . IT CLAIMS TO BE A TOTALLY DIFFERENT AND SUPERIOR SYSTEM AND WAY OF THINKING WITH HUMAN PROBLEMS. THERE IS SOME REASON TO BELEIVE THAT THAT IS TRUE. LOOK INTO REMOTE VIEWING'S ORIGONS. THERE ARE OTHER PIECES OF EVEDENCE, THAT ARE MORE MINOR. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thaddeus Slamp (talk • contribs) 05:11, 5 April 2007 (UTC).
Slump
Names Slamp. Firefox must be on a bender! , please sign your comments and stop yelling around here, I am becoming deaf.
Roger, Wilco. Every 1ce/a while I have to remind myself how much people hate all caps. Er, and get Firefox with inbuilt typo correction Is there a spelling error? Misou 05:41, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
Slamp, not Slump. -- Antaeus Feldspar 06:09, 5 April 2007 (UTC) You've yet to reply to my content. Thaddeus Slamp 23:11, 5 April 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Thaddeus Slamp ( talk • contribs) 04:28, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Just to clarify; everything above the unsigned tag I just added (04:28, 7 May 2007 by Thaddeus Slamp) is one post. I guess he pasted in a thread from another location. -- Justanother 14:45, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Scientologists are horrible people look what they are doing to this poor people:
I tell you man is a cult and it needs to be stop! Bravehartbear 06:03, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Either that or he has me Xenu. Bravehartbear, CofS is a cult, and no amount of sending "volunteers" to disaster areas will stop that being true. Everyone in this project is aware of the volunteers, and also why they are used, a bunch of YouTube videos won't change that. Darrenhusted 12:57, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
This debated is irrelevent. The purpose of an encyclodedia is not to criticize or promote any organization no matter how good or how bad. The article and the talk page should focus on informing rather than convincing people of any particular viewpoint. There are plenty of places on the internet to bicker over the merits and demerits of scientology (or any other religious view for that matter). Lets not waste space having that debate here. ( RookZERO 03:51, 8 May 2007 (UTC))
Citation number 45 is a dead link and needs to be removed, and the statement in question needs an actual citation.
The US state department and the UN have condemned Germany, France and others of religiously persecuting Scientology and other religious groups. The introductions states "However, outside observers—including journalists, courts, and national governing bodies of several countries—have alleged that Scientology is an unscrupulous commercial enterprise that harasses its critics and brutally exploits its members." But this criticisms have been condemned as being unfounded bigotry and prejudice by other groups and governing bodies. And these Scientology critics have been found guilty of being bias against other religious groups too. We must differentiate between a real concerns and just plain hate, bias, bigotry and prejudice. The fact is Scientology has been joined by many religious groups, politicians, governing bodies and the UN to counter the anti-cult movement that I consider a hate group. I'm going to expose this point.
For example in Germany Scientologist:
Years of monitoring of Scientology by the German government have resulted in nothing. I intend of creating a whole new section about religious persecution of Scientology and Scientologist. And presenting the support that Scientology has received from other religious groups, governments and the UN to combat this bigotry. Currently I'm working in collecting all the citations. Bravehartbear 14:27, 8 May 2007 (UTC)