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"The reasonable man quite ordinarily overlooks the fact that people from 2.0 down have no traffic with reason and cannot be reasoned with as one would reason with a 3.0. There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the tone scale, neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the tone scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow." L. Ron Hubbard, from Science of Survival.
I lifted this quote off another website. Can anyone verify whether or not if Hubbard advocated genocide in this book? It would be great if someone could add any details about this to the article.
Why have you removed mention of the Emotional Tone Scale which is a vital part of this book?
Why have you removed mention of the Chart of Human Evaluation which is a vital part of this book?
Why have you edited text provided by the Hubbard Dianetics Research Foundation on their letterhead and included by that foundation in early issues of SoS and claimed Hubbard said it or alleged it, when this is not true. Please explain your POV. If you wish to express your personal reservations as to the authorship of the information, please let's discuss it here and hopefully reach a consensus here rather than a delete/revert war. Spirit of Man 02:09, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
Science of Survival: Prediction of Human Behavior (Hardcover) by L. Ron Hubbard
Hardcover: 332 pages
Publisher: Bridge Publications, Inc.; Copyright 1951, 1981
Language: English
ISBN: 0884040011
First Printing, August 1951
Twentieth Printing, August 1981
Product Dimensions: 1.8 x 6.5 x 9.8 inches
Shipping Weight: 2.6 pounds
Comprehensive reference work describing the application of Dianetics. Contains an Introduction with definitive test results from 1950 as published by the staff of the Hubbard Dianetic Research Foundation. (See below) Presents the Chart of Human Evaluation. Contains detail descriptions of each of the columns of the Chart of Human Evaluation. Excellent description of the emotional tone scale. Basic textbook for the prediction of human behavior.
Review: "The most important book man has." BB
Overview of Tests and Test Results from the Introduction.
In 1950 the Hubbard Dianetic Research Foundation agreed to a definitive test of claims demanded by the psychological community. They insisted Dianetics "validate" three basic claims using psychology's strictest psychrometric protocols, including their professional level examiners and their written test procedures. The claims were; increased IQ, the relief of psychoses, and the relief of psychosomatic illnesses.
The tests used were; the Minnesota Multiphasic Test and the Wechsler-Bellevue, "Form B".
The examining psychometrists were Gordon Southon, Peggy Southon and Dalmyra Ibanez, Ph.D., Ed.D. and their signatures were affixed to each bank of tests and witnessed. These psychometrists were registered professional personnel whose honesty and standing in the field of psychology was above question.
Before and after tests were required. 88 students were selected. (Straight off the street with no previous knowledge of Dianetics.) One month of training on Dianetics. Each student received an average of 40 hours of Dianetics from other students.
All three claims were validated by these tests and these psychometrists.
Psychology has never responded with similar demonstrations of its own claims.
Dianetics remains the only validated science of the mind. It's claim to be man's most advanced science of the mind has been validated. LLH -- 207.69.139.7 16:24, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Some of the article appears biased towards Dianetics. Can the last two sentences be validated using commonly-accepted authoritative third-party references?
The second-last paragraph does not adequately clarify the "claims" psychology is making, nor does it detail either a request from an expert in some other discipline for any sort of demonstration or an attempt by a group of psychologists to respond to such a request.
-- MatthewDBA 23:35, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
MathewDBA, the last two lines are a comment. The relevant claims of psychology of the time period were that IQ could not be changed, their psychological profiles could not be changed as they were believed to have physiological origins, and that psychosomatic ills accounted for 70 percent of mans ills an could not be treated. Many illnesses were legislated against so that it was and is illegal to treat them. I felt the lines were important, but if you, as administrator, feel they are the reason for your Neutrality flag, I will remove them. -- Spirit of Man 23:51, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
MatthewDBA, I removed the lines you mentioned from the Article and they already exist here. Will you remove your POV dispute from the Article? -- Spirit of Man 03:18, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
This Article is just about the book and the tests and test results published by the foundation 55 years ago. According to the current Wiki Dianetics Article there were no tests (this is false), let alone definitive tests proving Dianetic results scientifically. He then goes on to claim the psychological community says the subject is not a science because there have been no tests. I have informed the author of this correct data and he is refusing to correct the article. I understand the dispute is with suitable scientific tests, fairly admininistered proving the claims of Dianetics, not with the claims of psychology. In fact Dianetics did provide such tests, the subject was validated per the protocols and criteria of their professional psychrometrists. This man has to ignore the importance of these tests to maintain his super critical point of view instead of a neutral pov. Do you understand what these test results mean? -- Spirit of Man 03:18, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
Here is the link to a New York Times article footnoted the Wiki Dianetics Article that gives you a third party reference; [Freeman, Lucy: "Psychologists act against Dianetics", New York Times, September 9, 1950].
You can get a copy on the web by Googling that citation, but here is the essence of it:
[The association stated that "in view of the sweeping generalizations and claims regarding psychology and psychotherapy made by L. Ron Hubbard in his recent book, "Dianetics," the American Psychological Association adopts the following resolution: "While suspending judgment concerning the eventual validity of the claims made by the author of 'Dianetics,' the association calls attention to the fact that these claims are not supported by empirical evidence of the sort required for the establishment of scientific generalizations. In the public interest, the association, in the absence of such evidence, recommends to its members that the use of the techniques peculiar to Dianetics be limited to scientific investigations designed to test the validity of its claims."] -- Spirit of Man 04:03, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
Yes, I understand there were or are 25 such illnesses in California. I would have to look them up to say specifics, but that information is not relevent to this Article. -- Spirit of Man 03:18, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
MatthewDBA, thank you. -- Spirit of Man 15:31, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
MatthewDBA, I have tried to link to the Dianetics article, but that hasn't been going well with the edits there. I am discussing with editors there the acceptance of these test results to satisfy a claim of "no empirical test results have ever been presented". When we get past that issue we can look at the merge idea again. Thanks for the interest. Spirit of Man 22:24, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Science of Survival article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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"The reasonable man quite ordinarily overlooks the fact that people from 2.0 down have no traffic with reason and cannot be reasoned with as one would reason with a 3.0. There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the tone scale, neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the tone scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow." L. Ron Hubbard, from Science of Survival.
I lifted this quote off another website. Can anyone verify whether or not if Hubbard advocated genocide in this book? It would be great if someone could add any details about this to the article.
Why have you removed mention of the Emotional Tone Scale which is a vital part of this book?
Why have you removed mention of the Chart of Human Evaluation which is a vital part of this book?
Why have you edited text provided by the Hubbard Dianetics Research Foundation on their letterhead and included by that foundation in early issues of SoS and claimed Hubbard said it or alleged it, when this is not true. Please explain your POV. If you wish to express your personal reservations as to the authorship of the information, please let's discuss it here and hopefully reach a consensus here rather than a delete/revert war. Spirit of Man 02:09, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
Science of Survival: Prediction of Human Behavior (Hardcover) by L. Ron Hubbard
Hardcover: 332 pages
Publisher: Bridge Publications, Inc.; Copyright 1951, 1981
Language: English
ISBN: 0884040011
First Printing, August 1951
Twentieth Printing, August 1981
Product Dimensions: 1.8 x 6.5 x 9.8 inches
Shipping Weight: 2.6 pounds
Comprehensive reference work describing the application of Dianetics. Contains an Introduction with definitive test results from 1950 as published by the staff of the Hubbard Dianetic Research Foundation. (See below) Presents the Chart of Human Evaluation. Contains detail descriptions of each of the columns of the Chart of Human Evaluation. Excellent description of the emotional tone scale. Basic textbook for the prediction of human behavior.
Review: "The most important book man has." BB
Overview of Tests and Test Results from the Introduction.
In 1950 the Hubbard Dianetic Research Foundation agreed to a definitive test of claims demanded by the psychological community. They insisted Dianetics "validate" three basic claims using psychology's strictest psychrometric protocols, including their professional level examiners and their written test procedures. The claims were; increased IQ, the relief of psychoses, and the relief of psychosomatic illnesses.
The tests used were; the Minnesota Multiphasic Test and the Wechsler-Bellevue, "Form B".
The examining psychometrists were Gordon Southon, Peggy Southon and Dalmyra Ibanez, Ph.D., Ed.D. and their signatures were affixed to each bank of tests and witnessed. These psychometrists were registered professional personnel whose honesty and standing in the field of psychology was above question.
Before and after tests were required. 88 students were selected. (Straight off the street with no previous knowledge of Dianetics.) One month of training on Dianetics. Each student received an average of 40 hours of Dianetics from other students.
All three claims were validated by these tests and these psychometrists.
Psychology has never responded with similar demonstrations of its own claims.
Dianetics remains the only validated science of the mind. It's claim to be man's most advanced science of the mind has been validated. LLH -- 207.69.139.7 16:24, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Some of the article appears biased towards Dianetics. Can the last two sentences be validated using commonly-accepted authoritative third-party references?
The second-last paragraph does not adequately clarify the "claims" psychology is making, nor does it detail either a request from an expert in some other discipline for any sort of demonstration or an attempt by a group of psychologists to respond to such a request.
-- MatthewDBA 23:35, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
MathewDBA, the last two lines are a comment. The relevant claims of psychology of the time period were that IQ could not be changed, their psychological profiles could not be changed as they were believed to have physiological origins, and that psychosomatic ills accounted for 70 percent of mans ills an could not be treated. Many illnesses were legislated against so that it was and is illegal to treat them. I felt the lines were important, but if you, as administrator, feel they are the reason for your Neutrality flag, I will remove them. -- Spirit of Man 23:51, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
MatthewDBA, I removed the lines you mentioned from the Article and they already exist here. Will you remove your POV dispute from the Article? -- Spirit of Man 03:18, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
This Article is just about the book and the tests and test results published by the foundation 55 years ago. According to the current Wiki Dianetics Article there were no tests (this is false), let alone definitive tests proving Dianetic results scientifically. He then goes on to claim the psychological community says the subject is not a science because there have been no tests. I have informed the author of this correct data and he is refusing to correct the article. I understand the dispute is with suitable scientific tests, fairly admininistered proving the claims of Dianetics, not with the claims of psychology. In fact Dianetics did provide such tests, the subject was validated per the protocols and criteria of their professional psychrometrists. This man has to ignore the importance of these tests to maintain his super critical point of view instead of a neutral pov. Do you understand what these test results mean? -- Spirit of Man 03:18, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
Here is the link to a New York Times article footnoted the Wiki Dianetics Article that gives you a third party reference; [Freeman, Lucy: "Psychologists act against Dianetics", New York Times, September 9, 1950].
You can get a copy on the web by Googling that citation, but here is the essence of it:
[The association stated that "in view of the sweeping generalizations and claims regarding psychology and psychotherapy made by L. Ron Hubbard in his recent book, "Dianetics," the American Psychological Association adopts the following resolution: "While suspending judgment concerning the eventual validity of the claims made by the author of 'Dianetics,' the association calls attention to the fact that these claims are not supported by empirical evidence of the sort required for the establishment of scientific generalizations. In the public interest, the association, in the absence of such evidence, recommends to its members that the use of the techniques peculiar to Dianetics be limited to scientific investigations designed to test the validity of its claims."] -- Spirit of Man 04:03, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
Yes, I understand there were or are 25 such illnesses in California. I would have to look them up to say specifics, but that information is not relevent to this Article. -- Spirit of Man 03:18, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
MatthewDBA, thank you. -- Spirit of Man 15:31, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
MatthewDBA, I have tried to link to the Dianetics article, but that hasn't been going well with the edits there. I am discussing with editors there the acceptance of these test results to satisfy a claim of "no empirical test results have ever been presented". When we get past that issue we can look at the merge idea again. Thanks for the interest. Spirit of Man 22:24, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
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