![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
With the addition of the SS Medical Corps section, the article's content is at a complete phase. I encourage veryone to begin the process towards Featured Article status. Inputs and comments are welcome (as would a nomination). - Husnock 17Mar05
Pictures, please! A featured article should not just be highly informative but also pleasant to read (as much as one can say this about the subject under debate...) Refdoc 22:18, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Good point about that...A pictures we shall add! - Husnock 23:54, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Another point, poorly covered, are the many non German SS and Waffen SS units, curtly subsumed under "Germanic SS" in the current version. Ukrainian and Baltic SS units guarded concentration camps, Caucasian and Turkic Waffen SS troops fought on the Eastern front. None of these were particularly "Germanic"
A few further points, possibly worth mentioning, are Lebensborn and the various SS- Junkerschulen. Refdoc 00:18, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
An admin choose to cancel the FAC nomination after less than four days. Not nearly enough time, in my opinon to make the changes. At least a week should be given, Ive seen some articles remain on FAC nomination for two weeks. I plan to make the changes and resubmit. Thanks for everyone's input. - Husnock 18:21, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
One of the reasons why I think this article is not super good is that it is a bit messy because the subject is large and complicated. I propose splitting the article in Organizational structure of the SS following the German language example. Andries 17:27, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I was told that the SS tatooed their blood type into their armpits. Is this at all true, and if so, worthy of being included here? Or just more lies? Kaiser Matias 02:07 26 April 2005 (UTC)
This is quite true. A friend of mine who was in the 12th SS 'HJ' Division has his tatoo under his armpit. 21st Feb 2006. Detmold
Yeah, they did do this. However, it became more and more rare as the war went on. Infact, it was pretty much discontinued after 1943.
Someone should take all the things that are not verified and put them at the end of the article in a Myths section. Discuss whether or not to put something there, then put there or don't. This is especially important on a topic with so much discrepency (sp?).
Stupid stories, like SS officer cadets putting grenades on their heads and letting them explode. I've seen that referred to in a couple of books on the topic of the Junkerschulen and have been assured by a number of veterans that this is just an absurd myth. 21st Feb 2006. Detmold
Inclucing the vote of the proposer of the vote, 11 people voted. 3 (that is, including the proposer of the vote) supported the move. Vote results:
Trying to help out with the present backlog of WP:RM, I remove the vote topic from that page. -- Francis Schonken 16:50, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
I don't think shorthand / abbreviations should count towards "most common usage". McPhail 21:03, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
I suggest looking up above where the page was ALREADY moved from SS to Schutzstaffel. Now we are proposing to move it back? That would cause tremendous redirect problems not to mention be slap against the agreed upon move which has already been discussed. And, upon the original argument. SS is an abbreviation. Schutzstaffel is the proper name of the group.
This has been gone over before and the consensus was to do this. I oppose moving this back and forth; both SS and Schutzstaffel go here, anyway, so it makes no practical difference. —Morven 00:17, September 8, 2005 (UTC)
Avoid the use of acronyms in page naming unless the term you are naming is almost exclusively known only by its acronyms and is widely known and used in that form ( NASA, SETI, and radar are good examples).
Many acronyms are used for several things; naming an article with the full name helps to avoid clashes. Whether the acronym or the spelled-out phrase is preferable in many particular cases is debatable, but this can work itself out with the
#REDIRECT [[new page name]]
command. For instance, DMCA and Digital Millennium Copyright Act have oscillated as to which is primary and which page redirects. Other less controversial pairs are MPAA versus Motion Picture Association of America and IMDb versus Internet Movie Database. At any rate, if the acronym and the full name are both in common use, both pages should certainly be created, and one should redirect to the other.
So I think "naming an article with the full name helps to avoid clashes", as from the guideline quoted above, applies.SS - (s) Sand Storm (METAR Code) - (i) Schutzstaffel ( Nazi elite Praetorian guard) - U.S. Secret Service - Spanish Ship - Stainless steel - Stockholm Skins - (s) Submarine (US Navy hull classification) - (i) Super Sport - Surface-to-Surface (missile)
For those who don't know, the article on SS ranks was hit heavy and hard by a user (who has since been blocked) who was adding non-existent SS ranks. I invite everyone to please visit this deletion vote to help us clear some of this off of Wikipedia. Thanks - Husnock 18:20, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Theories also exist that Himmler did not see Jews as the only race deemed worthy of extermination. Documents from 1943 and 1944 indicate Himmler had discussed privately, with certain top SS leaders and perhaps even Hitler, the idea of continuing the Holocaust to include blacks and Orientals. These ideas were obviously kept very quiet, since Japan at the time was a major ally of Germany.
This paragraph either needs a direct citation to what historians postulated, and with what evidence they postulated, such examples of a possible idea had for a continuation of the holocaust to blacks or orientals, or should be considered POV conjecture. I think the paragraph otherwise should be removed. The SS had published propaganda works favoring the Japanese race, even before joining the Axis, for example. I've also read works claiming the SS foresaw a slave nation of Russians in the east; though I cannot even vouch for the authenticity of such a statement, however I myself have read nothing to seriously denote a plan of continuation for the holocaust to other ethnicities beyond those considered "alien" within Germany itself. Nagelfar 15:24, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
The symbol of the Schutzstaffel is similar to the swastika in that they both show alphabetic lettering. The swastika, although it was an ancient symbol, was used sometimes by the National Socialist German Workers Party to represent overlapping “S” letters for their “socialism,” as shown in medals, banners, flags, stamps, etc by Dr. Rex Curry. The same symbolism is shown in Hitler’s own bizarre signature, which Hitler altered to use the same stylized "S" letter for "socialist," and in Hitler turning the symbol 45 degrees to the horizontal and eventually pointing all uses to the right to highlight the S letter, and similar alphabetic symbolism still shows on Volkswagens.
I added the naming conventions section after reading the considerable confusion and controversy on the boards regarding the name. I included my source in the references. I also changed the Italian Black Brigades link to Italian Blackshirts. The SS could not have possibly have been inspired by the Black Brigades as they did not exist until 1943 (whereas the SS was developing in the 30s)! The SS did however liken itself to the Blackshirts that existed even during World War I and long before the SS's existence. Ikeinthemed
It's also POV to state that the translation of SS is "confusing" and debatable. I cleaned up the section to remove references to this. and for the record, my last edit was not "vandalism" [2], it was removing material which appeared unsourced and POV - Husnock 13:57, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
I have noticed the above dispute. It seems you are unsure as to what SS stands for. I haven't read as to who said what. This one is easy to solve, though. Here is the link: [4] to the dictionary.
As for my German: Meine Deutsch ist nicht so gut. Sie bleibt immer schlecht. Sie ist für mich zu schwerig. Entschuldigung! (not so good).
Hope this helps. Wallie 06:28, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Article also. [5] "Protection Squad". Wallie 21:29, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Being a native German speaker let me try to give my 5 cents ( yeah... with euros nowerdays its cents over here as well. ;-) )
The first paragraph of the intro concludes: in which millions of Jews, Poles, Gypsies, Russians and Roma were killed. Gypsies and Roma, isn't that redundant? Sumergocognito 20:33, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
With the addition of the SS Medical Corps section, the article's content is at a complete phase. I encourage veryone to begin the process towards Featured Article status. Inputs and comments are welcome (as would a nomination). - Husnock 17Mar05
Pictures, please! A featured article should not just be highly informative but also pleasant to read (as much as one can say this about the subject under debate...) Refdoc 22:18, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Good point about that...A pictures we shall add! - Husnock 23:54, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Another point, poorly covered, are the many non German SS and Waffen SS units, curtly subsumed under "Germanic SS" in the current version. Ukrainian and Baltic SS units guarded concentration camps, Caucasian and Turkic Waffen SS troops fought on the Eastern front. None of these were particularly "Germanic"
A few further points, possibly worth mentioning, are Lebensborn and the various SS- Junkerschulen. Refdoc 00:18, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
An admin choose to cancel the FAC nomination after less than four days. Not nearly enough time, in my opinon to make the changes. At least a week should be given, Ive seen some articles remain on FAC nomination for two weeks. I plan to make the changes and resubmit. Thanks for everyone's input. - Husnock 18:21, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
One of the reasons why I think this article is not super good is that it is a bit messy because the subject is large and complicated. I propose splitting the article in Organizational structure of the SS following the German language example. Andries 17:27, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I was told that the SS tatooed their blood type into their armpits. Is this at all true, and if so, worthy of being included here? Or just more lies? Kaiser Matias 02:07 26 April 2005 (UTC)
This is quite true. A friend of mine who was in the 12th SS 'HJ' Division has his tatoo under his armpit. 21st Feb 2006. Detmold
Yeah, they did do this. However, it became more and more rare as the war went on. Infact, it was pretty much discontinued after 1943.
Someone should take all the things that are not verified and put them at the end of the article in a Myths section. Discuss whether or not to put something there, then put there or don't. This is especially important on a topic with so much discrepency (sp?).
Stupid stories, like SS officer cadets putting grenades on their heads and letting them explode. I've seen that referred to in a couple of books on the topic of the Junkerschulen and have been assured by a number of veterans that this is just an absurd myth. 21st Feb 2006. Detmold
Inclucing the vote of the proposer of the vote, 11 people voted. 3 (that is, including the proposer of the vote) supported the move. Vote results:
Trying to help out with the present backlog of WP:RM, I remove the vote topic from that page. -- Francis Schonken 16:50, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
I don't think shorthand / abbreviations should count towards "most common usage". McPhail 21:03, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
I suggest looking up above where the page was ALREADY moved from SS to Schutzstaffel. Now we are proposing to move it back? That would cause tremendous redirect problems not to mention be slap against the agreed upon move which has already been discussed. And, upon the original argument. SS is an abbreviation. Schutzstaffel is the proper name of the group.
This has been gone over before and the consensus was to do this. I oppose moving this back and forth; both SS and Schutzstaffel go here, anyway, so it makes no practical difference. —Morven 00:17, September 8, 2005 (UTC)
Avoid the use of acronyms in page naming unless the term you are naming is almost exclusively known only by its acronyms and is widely known and used in that form ( NASA, SETI, and radar are good examples).
Many acronyms are used for several things; naming an article with the full name helps to avoid clashes. Whether the acronym or the spelled-out phrase is preferable in many particular cases is debatable, but this can work itself out with the
#REDIRECT [[new page name]]
command. For instance, DMCA and Digital Millennium Copyright Act have oscillated as to which is primary and which page redirects. Other less controversial pairs are MPAA versus Motion Picture Association of America and IMDb versus Internet Movie Database. At any rate, if the acronym and the full name are both in common use, both pages should certainly be created, and one should redirect to the other.
So I think "naming an article with the full name helps to avoid clashes", as from the guideline quoted above, applies.SS - (s) Sand Storm (METAR Code) - (i) Schutzstaffel ( Nazi elite Praetorian guard) - U.S. Secret Service - Spanish Ship - Stainless steel - Stockholm Skins - (s) Submarine (US Navy hull classification) - (i) Super Sport - Surface-to-Surface (missile)
For those who don't know, the article on SS ranks was hit heavy and hard by a user (who has since been blocked) who was adding non-existent SS ranks. I invite everyone to please visit this deletion vote to help us clear some of this off of Wikipedia. Thanks - Husnock 18:20, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Theories also exist that Himmler did not see Jews as the only race deemed worthy of extermination. Documents from 1943 and 1944 indicate Himmler had discussed privately, with certain top SS leaders and perhaps even Hitler, the idea of continuing the Holocaust to include blacks and Orientals. These ideas were obviously kept very quiet, since Japan at the time was a major ally of Germany.
This paragraph either needs a direct citation to what historians postulated, and with what evidence they postulated, such examples of a possible idea had for a continuation of the holocaust to blacks or orientals, or should be considered POV conjecture. I think the paragraph otherwise should be removed. The SS had published propaganda works favoring the Japanese race, even before joining the Axis, for example. I've also read works claiming the SS foresaw a slave nation of Russians in the east; though I cannot even vouch for the authenticity of such a statement, however I myself have read nothing to seriously denote a plan of continuation for the holocaust to other ethnicities beyond those considered "alien" within Germany itself. Nagelfar 15:24, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
The symbol of the Schutzstaffel is similar to the swastika in that they both show alphabetic lettering. The swastika, although it was an ancient symbol, was used sometimes by the National Socialist German Workers Party to represent overlapping “S” letters for their “socialism,” as shown in medals, banners, flags, stamps, etc by Dr. Rex Curry. The same symbolism is shown in Hitler’s own bizarre signature, which Hitler altered to use the same stylized "S" letter for "socialist," and in Hitler turning the symbol 45 degrees to the horizontal and eventually pointing all uses to the right to highlight the S letter, and similar alphabetic symbolism still shows on Volkswagens.
I added the naming conventions section after reading the considerable confusion and controversy on the boards regarding the name. I included my source in the references. I also changed the Italian Black Brigades link to Italian Blackshirts. The SS could not have possibly have been inspired by the Black Brigades as they did not exist until 1943 (whereas the SS was developing in the 30s)! The SS did however liken itself to the Blackshirts that existed even during World War I and long before the SS's existence. Ikeinthemed
It's also POV to state that the translation of SS is "confusing" and debatable. I cleaned up the section to remove references to this. and for the record, my last edit was not "vandalism" [2], it was removing material which appeared unsourced and POV - Husnock 13:57, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
I have noticed the above dispute. It seems you are unsure as to what SS stands for. I haven't read as to who said what. This one is easy to solve, though. Here is the link: [4] to the dictionary.
As for my German: Meine Deutsch ist nicht so gut. Sie bleibt immer schlecht. Sie ist für mich zu schwerig. Entschuldigung! (not so good).
Hope this helps. Wallie 06:28, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Article also. [5] "Protection Squad". Wallie 21:29, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Being a native German speaker let me try to give my 5 cents ( yeah... with euros nowerdays its cents over here as well. ;-) )
The first paragraph of the intro concludes: in which millions of Jews, Poles, Gypsies, Russians and Roma were killed. Gypsies and Roma, isn't that redundant? Sumergocognito 20:33, 27 May 2006 (UTC)