Savannah hypothesis is part of the WikiProject Biology, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to
biology on Wikipedia. Leave messages on the WikiProject
talk page.BiologyWikipedia:WikiProject BiologyTemplate:WikiProject BiologyBiology articles
This article is within the scope of
WikiProject Human Genetic History, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.Human Genetic HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Human Genetic HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Human Genetic HistoryHuman Genetic History articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Anthropology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Anthropology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AnthropologyWikipedia:WikiProject AnthropologyTemplate:WikiProject AnthropologyAnthropology articles
This article has been rated as Low-importance on the
importance scale.
560 MYA
There were no hominids 560 million years ago, nor were there any woodlands for them to walk out of. Did the author mean "5 to 6 million years?" — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
66.222.52.135 (
talk) 17:54, 17 September 2018 (UTC)reply
No, actually. For starters, it's referring to
hominines, not
hominids. I remember being startled by the number, but it was pulled from a source. 5-6MYA would be inaccurate as well, since the subfamily dates back to 8-10MYA by most estimates (nor would it be more accurate to refer to hominids this way, as they date back even further, to about 15-20MYA). It may have been a typo in the source, an older source with a since-discredited view, or a simple mistake, but I recall confirming it twice already (once when reading it). I seem to remember this exact issue coming up once before, but I cant' recall where.
Note that this may be a mistake of re-phrasing, i.e. the 560MYA number is correct, but it didn't refer to hominines, but their ancestors. I'm checking the sources now to see if there's something I can do to fix it, because I'd rather not just go with OR because I know a source is wrong, without a better source to correct it with. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 18:59, 17 September 2018 (UTC)reply
Okay, I don't know exactly what happened (I still can't remember the first go-around in much detail), but I do know that one of the sources supports the claim that
hominins (distinct from
hominines) arose 5-6MYA, so I'm going to change it to that, as you suggested. I know the 560MYA source was explicit, but I'm not going to quibble over details when they make the phrasing of the lede go off on a time period by ~550 million years. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 19:03, 17 September 2018 (UTC)reply
Savanna(h) Hypothesis in evolutionary psychology
There's also a quite different (but related) "Savannah Hypothesis" in
evolutionary psychology. It's the idea that we now have a preference for green, Arcadian landscapes, watering holes, manicured gardens, golf courses, etc based on our transition to the Savannah. This is the 1980s/1990s work of people like
Gordon Orians on "evolved responses to landscape" etc, Judith Heerwagen, the experiments of Balling and Falk, etc etc. It either needs a mention in this article or a whole, separate disambiguated article along the lines "Savannah Hypothesis (evolutionary psychology)".
Relevant primary sources would be...
Orians, G. (1980). Habitat selection: General theory and applications to human behavior. In J. S. Lockard (Ed.), The evolution of human social behavior (pp. 49–66). Chicago: Elsevier.
Orians, G. (1986). An ecological and evolutionary approach to landscape aesthetics. In E. C. Penning-Rowsell & D. Lowenthal (Eds.), Landscape meaning and values (pp. 3–25). London: Allen & Unwin.
Orians, G., & Heerwagen, J. H. (1992). Evolved responses to landscapes. In J. H. Barkow, L. Cosmides, & J. Tooby (Eds.), The adapted mind: Evolutionary psychology and the generation of culture. New York: University Press.
Balling, J.D. and Falk, J.H. (1982) Development of Visual Preference for Natural Environments. Environment and Behavior, 14, 5-28.
As above, counterbalancing secondary source could be various of the chapters in Alas Poor Darwin: Arguments Against Evolutionary Psychology by Hilary Rose, Steven Rose (eds), Random House,2010 (ISBN: 9781446412176, 1446412172,
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Alas_Poor_Darwin/HQthCC191y8C). Several of the authors there argue against the Savannah hypothesis.
82.71.0.229 (
talk) 08:39, 26 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Savannah hypothesis is part of the WikiProject Biology, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to
biology on Wikipedia. Leave messages on the WikiProject
talk page.BiologyWikipedia:WikiProject BiologyTemplate:WikiProject BiologyBiology articles
This article is within the scope of
WikiProject Human Genetic History, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.Human Genetic HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Human Genetic HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Human Genetic HistoryHuman Genetic History articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Anthropology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Anthropology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AnthropologyWikipedia:WikiProject AnthropologyTemplate:WikiProject AnthropologyAnthropology articles
This article has been rated as Low-importance on the
importance scale.
560 MYA
There were no hominids 560 million years ago, nor were there any woodlands for them to walk out of. Did the author mean "5 to 6 million years?" — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
66.222.52.135 (
talk) 17:54, 17 September 2018 (UTC)reply
No, actually. For starters, it's referring to
hominines, not
hominids. I remember being startled by the number, but it was pulled from a source. 5-6MYA would be inaccurate as well, since the subfamily dates back to 8-10MYA by most estimates (nor would it be more accurate to refer to hominids this way, as they date back even further, to about 15-20MYA). It may have been a typo in the source, an older source with a since-discredited view, or a simple mistake, but I recall confirming it twice already (once when reading it). I seem to remember this exact issue coming up once before, but I cant' recall where.
Note that this may be a mistake of re-phrasing, i.e. the 560MYA number is correct, but it didn't refer to hominines, but their ancestors. I'm checking the sources now to see if there's something I can do to fix it, because I'd rather not just go with OR because I know a source is wrong, without a better source to correct it with. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 18:59, 17 September 2018 (UTC)reply
Okay, I don't know exactly what happened (I still can't remember the first go-around in much detail), but I do know that one of the sources supports the claim that
hominins (distinct from
hominines) arose 5-6MYA, so I'm going to change it to that, as you suggested. I know the 560MYA source was explicit, but I'm not going to quibble over details when they make the phrasing of the lede go off on a time period by ~550 million years. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPantsTell me all about it. 19:03, 17 September 2018 (UTC)reply
Savanna(h) Hypothesis in evolutionary psychology
There's also a quite different (but related) "Savannah Hypothesis" in
evolutionary psychology. It's the idea that we now have a preference for green, Arcadian landscapes, watering holes, manicured gardens, golf courses, etc based on our transition to the Savannah. This is the 1980s/1990s work of people like
Gordon Orians on "evolved responses to landscape" etc, Judith Heerwagen, the experiments of Balling and Falk, etc etc. It either needs a mention in this article or a whole, separate disambiguated article along the lines "Savannah Hypothesis (evolutionary psychology)".
Relevant primary sources would be...
Orians, G. (1980). Habitat selection: General theory and applications to human behavior. In J. S. Lockard (Ed.), The evolution of human social behavior (pp. 49–66). Chicago: Elsevier.
Orians, G. (1986). An ecological and evolutionary approach to landscape aesthetics. In E. C. Penning-Rowsell & D. Lowenthal (Eds.), Landscape meaning and values (pp. 3–25). London: Allen & Unwin.
Orians, G., & Heerwagen, J. H. (1992). Evolved responses to landscapes. In J. H. Barkow, L. Cosmides, & J. Tooby (Eds.), The adapted mind: Evolutionary psychology and the generation of culture. New York: University Press.
Balling, J.D. and Falk, J.H. (1982) Development of Visual Preference for Natural Environments. Environment and Behavior, 14, 5-28.
As above, counterbalancing secondary source could be various of the chapters in Alas Poor Darwin: Arguments Against Evolutionary Psychology by Hilary Rose, Steven Rose (eds), Random House,2010 (ISBN: 9781446412176, 1446412172,
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Alas_Poor_Darwin/HQthCC191y8C). Several of the authors there argue against the Savannah hypothesis.
82.71.0.229 (
talk) 08:39, 26 September 2022 (UTC)reply