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I don't challenge the definition of Hindustani--and would like to help build the entry on it--but to say that Saare Jahan Say Achcha is written in Hindustani rather than Urdu. Isn't that inaccurate?-- iFaqeer 20:50, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)
I didn't want to do anything, because there are certainly those who know Hindi/Urdu better than I, but I think there were a few mistakes. Writing out all the unicode by hand, as I have done many a time myself, I can understand this happening. I don't want to correct anything, only to find out it is some archaic or literary style. Was हिन्दुस्तान ever really हिन्दोस्तां or ەندوستاں؟ or गुलिस्तान -> गुलसितां/گلستاں؟ though? Both being Persian words, I should feel safe changing these nasalisations, but I don't have a copy of the song in front of me. The simple English I don't personally like, but realize a proper transliteration doesn't help the normal person any more than Devanagari or Naskh! But than again I still like:
Sāre jahāṁ (or jahān) se accha, hindustān hamāra...
The Devanagari izaafat is always weird, but does there really need to be a '\'? I have seen this rendering many times though and so its more of a stylistic quandary than an actual problem ;-)
Whether or not anyone wants to engage in the old Hindi/Urdu debate (leave me out!) this should probably be written in Urdu naskh as well. I'm no poetic scholar, and am not sure off the top of head if this meets the metrical requirements, but this sounds like it is some kind of good ol' Urdu she'er to my novice ears. But when writing:
سارے جەان اچەا هندوستان همارا should be
سارے جەاں اچها ەندوستان ەمارا ەم بلبليں ەيں اس كى، يە گلستان ەمارا ... and so on.
(I'm noticing the choti he's, do chashmi he's and nun-e ghunna's.)
Khirad 10:10, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
Can someone who knows meanings of Urdu/Hindustani words used here complete the english translation?
Ashish G 19:38, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
1. The poem is entitled 'Tarana Hindi,' not 'Saare Jahan Se Acha' 2. It is in Urdu, not Hindi. Iqbal did not compose any Hindi poetry. 3. Its an absolute travesty that the text of the poem has been written out in Hindi script and not in the original Urdu. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kabuli ( talk • contribs)
Basawala 19:33, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
Why do we have the devanagari transliteration? How is it significant? Sarvagnya 05:02, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Mahawiki 14:38, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Just one comment, this is different from the case of Jana Gana Mana or Vande Mataram. The former was adopted by the Parliament in its Hindi version (as the references have been shown to us), and the latter is really a mix of Sanskrit and Bengali, in which case, Devanagari scrip (not Hindi language) was accepted after a long discussion.
However, in this case, it is an Urdu song. As far as I know, Urdu is one of the languages with official status, just as Bengali, Tamil, etc. have in India. Unless the Devanagari script usage has some sort of official sanction (as in the case of Jana Gana Mana), I think sticking to the original script should be the best option. Of course, if there IS some official decision to use Devanagari script, it would be a different matter (which would be interesting ... I think Bengali's phonetic difference is what prompted the parliament to adopt it in the Hindi version, to make it easier for the majority of non-Bengali Indians ... this is not the case with this song). -- Ragib 02:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
I think everyone should know this: Go through Sarvagnya's contributions and talk pages and you will find that he has a Anti-Hindi and Anti-Devanagiri bias. One of his major contributions to Wikipedia has been the deletion of Hindi names and Devanagiri script from every India related article.
He has done exactly the same thing for three songs which are very important in India(Jana Gana Mana, Saare Jahan se Accha, Vande Mataram). The fact that Devanagiri is a major script in India and Hindi is the official language of India means that every Indian will want to read this article and hence it is necessary to keep the Devanagiri version. Just because of ONE POV-pushing Wikipedian we are indulging in an endless debate!
And why should ONE biased Wikipedian be allowed to hold Wikipedia to ransom? How can one persons opinion be greater than the Constitution of India. The Constituent Assembly which had representatvies from all parts and communities of India had collectively taken the decision. If Sarvagnya is unhappy with it , let him keep it to himself, why should Wikipedia suffer? -- Deepak D'Souza 06:54, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
I think if we'll talk about the controversy surrounding Vande Mataram and Jana Gana Mana I think we should also mention the controversy surrounding this song since it was penned by the ideological patron of Pakistan. I have no personal views on this, I'm just stating facts. -- Antorjal 17:06, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
Wow, this article has sure seen a lot of see-saw reverts today and yesterday!!! I've protected it until the warring parties find a consensus. Edit warring is evil. Please cool down and get a consensus on the script issues. Thank you. -- Ragib 04:09, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
But what about consensus among editors here to include Hindi transliteration?I am sure none of us are taking help of sockpuppets to achive the consensus.
Mahawiki
07:07, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
And I didnt knew ur so concerned about WP policies and rule..especially when ur removing official warnings and the non-obscene message which u dont like?
[12]Again do u remember u had adviced me once against removing official warnings?(see the link)
Mahawiki
Mahawiki 18:20, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. Mahawiki 13:44, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
This user is a member of this (heated) discussion and for the benefit of everyone please see this.I hope the POV pushing and harrassing will now evade. Mahawiki 19:28, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
The article has been under protection since Oct 16, so I'm unprotecting it. Hopefully, this time we will avoid the edit wars that resulted in the protection. Thanks. -- Ragib 05:19, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia pages are not really meant to be kept protected all the time. The best thing is to reach a consensus based on discussion. The page had been protected since Oct 16, and there had been little activity in the talk page. So, it didn't make sense to keep the article protected any more. If there is a new edit war, please refer to
Request for page protection to submit a request for protection. Thank you. --
Ragib
06:40, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Now that I read the intro para, I can't help doubting the correctness of the following sentence:
The sulekha.com article it cites is very poorly written, and has very glaring misinformation about many other things (like claiming Rakesh Sharma was the first indian to land on moon, whereas he was actually the first Indian to go to space). The derogative language used in this source makes me think that it is more like a comment/Pakistan-bashing article rather than fact. So, I'd like to see more reliable sources for this statement about Iqbal. Thanks. -- Ragib 17:29, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
This is a citation that had been removed before. Dont know which vandal put it back again. Using such citations IS 'vandalism' of sorts because it is in extremely inflamatory language and can only be seen as trolling. I have gone ahead and removed it. Not only is it general nonsense and muck but the citation doesnt even conform to WP:citing sources, WP:notable sources policies. It is a personal blog of a 'nobody'. Sarvagnya 20:32, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Unfortunately, since I unprotected it on Nov 8, there have been 13 edits, and every one of them is a revert. This implies that the edit disputes are yet to be resolved. I urge the debating users to use the talk page rather than doing this endless cycle of reverts/counter-reverts. Thanks. -- Ragib 04:03, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
True, except one user has 7 reverts and 4 people combined for the other 6. Bakaman Bakatalk 04:08, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Urdu Text, and English and Hindi transliterations, and English Translation of the poem should be removed from the article. It is an unprecedented act which has never happened in any other article about a famous poem. Giving complete transliterations and translation and using misleading word as titles is complete abuse of Wikipedia and I consider it a part shameless propaganda (by Indian-imperialists) which is going on without any resistance of any kind. This is a blatant attempt to claim the poem's writer for India without considering that he was the one who proposed the whole idea of Pakistan. Szhaider 14:20, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
PS: I will wait for the response to above question for a couple more days. If I do not get any answer, I will remove entire text, transliterations and translation of the poem. It is absurd to copy an entire poem instead of having a comprehensive article about it. Szhaider 22:53, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
I have to say I don't like the lead sentence. It should be about a song; instead, it seems to be about describing Iqbal's history. As a neutral observer of India-Pakistan wars on Wikipedia, here is my take:
Here is a song that is overwhelmingly popular in India and little known in Pakistan. However, the irony is that most Indians don't really understand the song—I would wager that 95% of native Hindi speakers don't know the meaning of all the words in the song (let alone native speakers of the other Indian languages, except Urdu and perhaps Punjabi)—on the other hand, most Pakistanis do know most words in the song, even though they don't hear it much. This strange set of circumstances results in the following anomaly: The Indians know it is important, have heard it sung, but don't really understand it, so they write about Iqbal, about the circumstances of the song, etc.; Pakistanis have either never heard of the song, or have heard that it is not important, so they react by asking, "Do we really need a Wikipedia page on this piece of claptrap?" etc. The truth is that Iqbal, as befits a great man, was a complex figure. In his early years, his view of the world was more eclectic. This changed in this later years, and it showed in his literary output. Both versions of Iqbal need to be accommodated in a final version.
One way to deal with the problem is to write more about the meaning of the song, without compromising WP:NOR of course. For the Indians to write less about the circumstances of the song, (or political implications of the song for secular India) and for the Pakistanis to acknowledge that it is really a song about Pakistan as much as about the Republic of India—the words, certainly, apply to either country, as well as Bangladesh. For example, there is really no need for the Indian astronaut story: to repeat the first line of the song, as the astronaut did, is to repeat a cliche; had he quoted the second stanza (please read it), he would have shown understanding of the song. In addition, both Urdu and Hindi scripts should stay, since the song is popular in India (and therefore providing the entire script, will at the very least, help many Indians to really understand the words). Also, I wouldn't make too much of the stanza, "Mazahab nahin ..." that is often quoted as proof of Iqbal's secular vision etc. Of all the stanza's in the poem/song, it is really the least poetic, and I wonder if Iqbal added it more for the occasion than for the poetry. I mean there is really no need to discuss Iqbal's politics here, either secular or Islamic. Anyway, how about the following start:
“ | Saare Jahan Se Achcha is one of the enduring patriotic poems of the Urdu language. Written and recited by poet Allama Iqbal at Government College, Lahore in 1905, it quickly became an anthem of opposition to the British rule in India. The song, an ode to Hindustan—the land comprising present-day Bangladesh, India, and Pakistan—both celebrates and cherishes the land even as it laments its age-old anguish. | ” |
One of the features of the poem is that it is tinged with sadness, even an underlying despair. In my view that makes it unusual among patriotic poems (in any language). Perhaps, WP editors should look for sources that support that observation. It should be there. Also, the poem is poorly translated. I could improve the translation a little, if I had the time. But perhaps other editors can do this better.
Fowler&fowler «Talk» 17:57, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I dont see how the song is about India. The song clearly states Hindustan, and he is referring to British India. India and Pakistan were born in 1947, therefore both nations can adapt the song for their countries. Unre4L ITY 23:47, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
“ | sāre jahān se acchā hindostān hamārā ham bulbulain hai is ki, yeh gulsitān hamārā parbat voh sab se ūnchā, hamsāya āsmān ka godi men kheltī hain is ki hazāron nadiyā maz'hab nahīn sikhātā āpas men bayr rakhnā |
” |
“ | ghurbat men hon agar ham, rahta hai dil vatan men samjho vahīn hamen bhī, dil hain jahān hamārā aye āb, raud, ganga, voh din hen yād tujhko yūnān-o-misr-o-romā, sab miṭ gaye jahān se kuch bāt hai keh hastī, miṭati nahīn hamārī iqbal ko'ī meharam, apnā nahīn jahān men |
” |
“ | ghurbat men hon agar ham, rahta hai dil vatan men samjho vahīn hamen bhī, dil hain jahān hamārā |
” |
I am not sure whether this part (the opening para) is the cause of the edit war, but in any case, I have protected the article to prevent the very awful edit war taking place in the article. It seems that the old debate about whether to include the Devnagari script/transliteration caused the edit war. I hope that will get resolved pretty soon. Thanks. -- Ragib 19:32, 20 January 2007.
The reason why the Hindi (Devanagari) script is relevant is that Hindi is the only language that shares a common grammar and base vocabulary with Urdu. Kannada doesn't, Telegu doesn't, Tamil doesn't, even Punjabi doesn't. It may be that the four easy Urdu stanzas of "Saare Jahan Se Achcha" that are a part of the popular song in India have been transliterated into Kannada, Telegu and other Indian languages, but even so, all 9 stanzas will not make sense to a Telegu or Kannada speaker, if they don't already understand basic Hindi or Urdu. Except for obvious Persian-orgin words like "pasban," "hamsaya," "gulistan," "ghurbat," etc. all words are shared with Hindi; in addition, Iqbal uses two words "parbat" and "bayr" which are Hindi words. The Hindi transliteration is especially relevant for Iqbal, since in his early years, he used many Hindi words in his poetry. Here is an example from Naya Shivala:
“ | Patthar kī moorti men, samjha hai tu khuda hai khak-e-vatan ka mujhko, har zarra devata hai |
” |
For readers who read both Hindi and English, but not Urdu, Devanagari transliterations provide more accurate pronunciation of the Urdu words than the English transliterations, on account of Devanagari's much larger alphabet. In addition, there is a long tradition of publishing tri-lingual editions (Urdu, Hindi, English) of Urdu poetry. For example, Oxford University Press, has published a tri-lingual edition of Iqbal's Shikwa & Jawab-i-Shikwa (complaint and answer). So, Wikipedia will be following a well-established precedent. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 02:51, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
-- Deepak D'Souza 09:16, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Fowler&fowler «Talk» 22:03, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
Iqbal was a farsi (persian) and an Urdu poet. Obvioulsy his work was in Urdu, rather than hindi or hindustani as hindustani is a dilect, almost like a slang, however any poet wouldnt use it to write poetry..its like wordworth writting a Jay-Z song..the song is in Urdu, which obviously different from hindi..thanks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Uch ( talk • contribs) 00:35, 9 February 2007 (UTC).
This is a really nice article. It is nice to see the text in both Urdu and Devanagari. There are some minor errors, I will try to fix them sometime.
Iqbal was not Persian, but an Indian, specifically of Kashmiri (Brahmin) descent. He did later work for what is now Pakistan, but dies before Pakistan was created.
-- Vikramsingh 01:43, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I know the article is protected and the reason to it. However I have some other changes related to article.
- Muhammad Iqbal - National Anthem
Can some admin please make these changes to article? -- Webkami 15:41, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I am not going to debate about if Devanagari should be in article or not but I believe the script currently shown is wrong. The words || सारे... at end of every other line probably translate as Saare ... It is I think the style how it is sung, not the actual poetry. Can somebody who knows the script explain and remove this? -- Webkami 16:21, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Can somebody please make edits I suggested above. -- Webkami 10:05, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Please make these changes as you think appropriate.
Muhammad Iqbal & National Anthem
I believe the Hindi transliteration script currently shown is wrong. The words || सारे... at end of every other line translate as Saare ... It is the style how it is sung, not the actual poetry. Below is the script without repetition of these words.
सारे जहाँ से अच्छा, िहन्दोस्तां हमारा|
हम बुलबुले हैं इसकी, यह गुलिसतां हमारा|
गुरबत में हों अगर हम, रहता है िदल वतन में|
समझो वहीं हमें भी, िदल हो जहाँ हमारा|
परबत वो सबसे ऊँचा, हमसाया आसमाँ का|
वो संतरी हमारा, वो पासवां हमारा|
गोदी में खेलती हैं, िजसकी हज़ारों निदयां|
गुलशन है िजसके दम से, रश्क-ए-िजनां हमारा|
ऐ आब-ए-रौंद-ए-गंगा! वो िदन है याद तुझको|
उतरा तेरे िकनारे, जब कारवां हमारा|
मजहब नहीं िसखाता, आपस में बैर रखना|
िहन्दी हैं हम वतन हैं, िहन्दोस्तां हमारा|
यूनान, िमस्र, रोमां, सब िमट गए जहाँ से|
अब तक मगर है बाकी, नाम-ओ-िनशां हमारा|
कुछ बात है िक हस्ती, िमटती नहीं हमारी|
सिदयों रहा है दुश्मन, दौर-ए-जहाँ हमारा|
'इक़बाल' कोई मरहूम, अपना नहीं जहाँ में|
मालूम क्या िकसी को, दर्द-ए-िनहां हमारा|
Thank you for your time -- Webkami 10:37, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
The transliteration of the 4th word of the poem, and the 4th and last word of heading, should be "Achchha" not "Achcha". Under the scheme of transliteration used, "chh" is the transpirated form of "ch", which is appropriate here. Both Urdu and Hindi speakers will recognize that the two consonant sound in the word "achchha" are different.
The song should first be presented in Urdu script as a recognition of the language used and the background of Iqbal. However, "Saare Jahan Se Achcha" is also a national patriotic song in India, and played a large role in the Independence movement, and as such it should also be written in the Hindi script, since Hindi is the national language of India (in contrast to official languages like Kannada and Bengali). The Roman script has been used, why isn't anyone complaining about that? What harm could it possibly do, to add in the Hindi script? Hindostani 22:39, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Hello Fowler&fowler. Thanks for trying to improve the article. However, I feel that the previous version to which many of us agreed on here (albeit with Devanagari) was much better. While the old version mentioned short history, contemporary usage, etc. about the song (the title of the article), the new version seems to focus more on Iqbal's life. Many significant things are now deleted. Once again, I apologize for causing contention, but I honestly feel that the old version was much better. I look forward to hearing your comments on the issue. With warm regards, Anupam Talk 03:24, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Well, I finally found some time to look into the history of the poem. It turns out, it was written for children, and was actually published in 1904, before the incident about Iqbal singing it etc. Iqbal also wrote a second song (also for children) Tarana-i-Millat, which was published 6 years later in 1910, which was composed in the same meter as Tarana-i-Hindi (Sare Jahan), but which renounces many of the sentiments of Sare Jahan. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 04:29, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Can somebody please address this? Sarvagnya 01:19, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
User Bharatveer recently changed the translation of the urdu word "Chin" in Iqbal's Taraana-i-Milli (Song of the Religious Community) from "Central Asia" to "China." I explained to him in my revert that "Chin" (albeit "China" in modern-Urdu) meant "Central Asia" (i.e. Chinese Turkestan (modern day Xinjiang), Russian Turkestan (modern day Kazakhstan, Kirgizstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, etc., all predominantly Muslim countries) in Iqbal's day, and that is what he was alluding to. At this, user Bharatveer, reverted again, with edit summary "rv to previous version : "cheen " is china; learn some urdu first or else cite sources." The problem is that the reference had already been provided in footnote 2. It is the web site of the poem at Columbia University and is translated by Frances Pritchett, Professor of Urdu Studies at Columbia. It specifically addresses the China/Central Asia issue. It is likely that user:Bharatveer didn't bother to check the footnote and its link. As for his injunction for me to learn some Urdu, I'd like to refer him to my two posts (of December 4 and December 7, 2006) at the Pakistan Talk page here. They are clearly not the work of someone unacquainted with Urdu. (See also my posts above on this talk page here and here.) It is one of the great humbling joys of Wikipedia work that one is enjoined to "learn" a language that one has familiarity with and affection for, even after one has re-written most of the article about a song in that language. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 15:57, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I intend no ill will with what I'm about to say, but I thought this should be kept in mind by people debating over the song's "secular nature" vs Iqbal's later views: The Two-Nation theory (regardless of whether it was right or wrong) did not posit any disavowal of an "Indian identity" for a "Muslim" or "Pakistani" identity. "India" was the common region and the League still saw themselves as Indians. They simply felt that India consisted of two nations or groups of people that, they felt, should be goverened separately. But this did not, for them, suggest any kind of secession of a Muslim homeland from India. The region would still be India and they would still be Indian, there would only be two nations within this region of India: "Pakistan" and "Hindustan" (though the latter originally implied all of northern south Asia, Pakistan included). They would all still be Indian by regional identification, Pakistani and Hindustani. So Iqbal never stopped viewing himself as an "Indian" (as per the song), he merely adopted a different intellectual/political framework with which to view how this "India" should be governed. And his framework saw India as consisting of two peoples that should politically rule their respective "portions" of India for themselves. This may have been a flawed idea but it was the idea he had. Afghan Historian ( talk) 22:35, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
This page is another one on Wikipedia where POV pushers periodically come through and attempt to either expand what they like or remove what they don't. An instance of this is an edit from mid-2010 in which an IP removed an entire section after some other POV pusher had expanded it. Here is the diff. I will be restoring the original version soon. Regards, Fowler&fowler «Talk» 00:30, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Please present your objections, if any, here. 101.63.93.234 ( talk) 05:53, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
In the second last line, the محرم would be transliterated as महरम, but it is read मेहरम. I have left the word as it was (i.e., मेहरम). But then, for consistency, the name of the poem should be transliterated Tarānā not Tarāna. (Again, I have not changed the last a to ā.) 101.63.93.234 ( talk) 05:59, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
The Arabic equivalent for English Rome is Rūm, from whence the word has come into Urdu. روما can be read either as Rūmā or Romā; the former is correct. I just changed the word in both Hindi and English transliterations. 115.242.79.191 ( talk) 01:45, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
The canonical form of ہندوستان is Hindūstān / हिन्दूस्तान . (In Iqbal’s song, the word used is ہندوستاں / हिन्दूस्ताँ). You can confirm it by following the link below. https://archive.org/stream/dictionaryhindus030502mbp#page/n809/mode/1up [Duncan Forbes’s Dictionary, p.792.] 115.240.102.85 ( talk) 15:46, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
(i) If سارے / सारे is Saare, then جہاں / जहाँ should be Jahaan. (ii) The word اچھا is not अछ्छा (Achcha/Achchaa), but अच्छा (Acchaa). 101.63.68.13 ( talk) 06:14, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
After reading the message by the IP above I used consistent transliteration in the title. Dharmadhyaksha reverted this to an inconsistent version again. I hope changing it back, or at least to ‘Sare Jahan se Accha’ should have no objection.— ШαмıQ✍ @ 16:27, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
Personally, I don't think the WP page name should be Sare or Saare anything. It should be Tarani-i-Hindi, the most popular rending in scholarly sources of Iqbal's name for the song. After all in English poems, we don't replace the name of the poem with half its first line, even if that line is much better known than the poem. (For example, The boy stood on the burning deck redirects to Casabianca (poem).) Fowler&fowler «Talk» 19:58, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
The pronunciation is: Hindōsta;N (in the Naim/Memon/Pritchett transliteration notation) or hindostāñ in WP. And that is how it is pronounced in Persian as well. In verse, (as in Tarana-i-Hindi) for the sake of the meter it can be pronounced: Hindōsita;N. I notice that now on Frances Pritchett's Columbia web site it is being transliterated at HindūstaN;, but most likely it is a typo; it didn't use to be that way a number of years ago, when I rewrote this article. I've never heard anyone pronouncing it Hindūstan except in modern Hindi/Urdu with stress on the third syllable. Here the stress is on the second syllable. Please change back to the correct version. In any case ū is pronounced oo and no one even in Hind/Urdu pronounces it Hindoostan. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 13:32, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
I've changed the new garbage romanizations back to the originals. I'm assuming the same nonsense has been repeated in the Devanagari script. Could someone please change it back to the one corresponding to Hindōstāñ? Thanks. Sorry to lose my cool a little bit, but it was beginning to look and sound ridiculous. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 19:51, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
Two sentences translate the word as ‘anthem’. Though that captures the meaning correctly, I don’t think it is the literal meaning of the word. The literal meaning according to Duncan Forbes is: modulation, harmony, voice, song, melody, symphony, trill, shake, quaver; a king of song. [link: https://archive.org/stream/dictionaryhindus030502mbp#page/n255/mode/1up]
Link to the meaning by another dictionary is given below. (meanings both in Urdu and English) The 3rd point in the Urdu text explains what Duncan means by a “a kind of song”:
1. common nag͟hamā/नग़मा or song, ….
3. A special song in which instead of meaningful words a few special meaningless words are used, [words] like: tā, tūm, tā, nā, tinā, nā, dar, nā, etc.
http://182.180.102.251:8081/oud/ViewWord.aspx?refid=9814
In short, no “anthem”. 115.240.27.48 ( talk) 17:55, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
I used to be a regular WP editor upto a few years back, but I stopped editing because of people like you. There are a thousand more interesting things waiting for me; I don’t have the time to argue with idiots.
You are welcome to reign your personal fiefdom! Goodbye, everyone! 115.241.162.75 ( talk) 01:31, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
Recent edits by an IP: 2405:204:52AE:66CE:0:0:1EC:20B0 ( talk · contribs) are conflating the poem and future music composed for the poem long after the poem's death. The music is incidental to the poem. It is not a fact of its notability in scholarly sources. It belongs to the popularity in India section, not to the lead. Best, Fowler&fowler «Talk» 19:37, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
Okay, I didn't know how many things went disputed on this article.
I just moved the Hindi lyrics to the table besides the column of transliteration. Why blaming me for inclusion of texts? It was already there. It is still.
Well, instead of keeping in mind every rule there, I generally go with the rule of thumb when editing (as long as I have verifiable and worth mentioning information). That's why I moved the lyrics to the table and did acknowledge what I had done. Maybe, there was a violation of manual of styles instead. This is just a humble request to kindly redirect an inexperienced users like me to the relevant rules and guidelines instead these ultimatum like texts. @ Fowler&fowler
:)
Thanks! MrAnmol ( talk) 15:05, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
"All transliteration should be from the written form in the original script of the original language of the name or term. The original text in the original script may also be included for reference and checking."
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I don't challenge the definition of Hindustani--and would like to help build the entry on it--but to say that Saare Jahan Say Achcha is written in Hindustani rather than Urdu. Isn't that inaccurate?-- iFaqeer 20:50, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)
I didn't want to do anything, because there are certainly those who know Hindi/Urdu better than I, but I think there were a few mistakes. Writing out all the unicode by hand, as I have done many a time myself, I can understand this happening. I don't want to correct anything, only to find out it is some archaic or literary style. Was हिन्दुस्तान ever really हिन्दोस्तां or ەندوستاں؟ or गुलिस्तान -> गुलसितां/گلستاں؟ though? Both being Persian words, I should feel safe changing these nasalisations, but I don't have a copy of the song in front of me. The simple English I don't personally like, but realize a proper transliteration doesn't help the normal person any more than Devanagari or Naskh! But than again I still like:
Sāre jahāṁ (or jahān) se accha, hindustān hamāra...
The Devanagari izaafat is always weird, but does there really need to be a '\'? I have seen this rendering many times though and so its more of a stylistic quandary than an actual problem ;-)
Whether or not anyone wants to engage in the old Hindi/Urdu debate (leave me out!) this should probably be written in Urdu naskh as well. I'm no poetic scholar, and am not sure off the top of head if this meets the metrical requirements, but this sounds like it is some kind of good ol' Urdu she'er to my novice ears. But when writing:
سارے جەان اچەا هندوستان همارا should be
سارے جەاں اچها ەندوستان ەمارا ەم بلبليں ەيں اس كى، يە گلستان ەمارا ... and so on.
(I'm noticing the choti he's, do chashmi he's and nun-e ghunna's.)
Khirad 10:10, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
Can someone who knows meanings of Urdu/Hindustani words used here complete the english translation?
Ashish G 19:38, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
1. The poem is entitled 'Tarana Hindi,' not 'Saare Jahan Se Acha' 2. It is in Urdu, not Hindi. Iqbal did not compose any Hindi poetry. 3. Its an absolute travesty that the text of the poem has been written out in Hindi script and not in the original Urdu. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kabuli ( talk • contribs)
Basawala 19:33, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
Why do we have the devanagari transliteration? How is it significant? Sarvagnya 05:02, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Mahawiki 14:38, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Just one comment, this is different from the case of Jana Gana Mana or Vande Mataram. The former was adopted by the Parliament in its Hindi version (as the references have been shown to us), and the latter is really a mix of Sanskrit and Bengali, in which case, Devanagari scrip (not Hindi language) was accepted after a long discussion.
However, in this case, it is an Urdu song. As far as I know, Urdu is one of the languages with official status, just as Bengali, Tamil, etc. have in India. Unless the Devanagari script usage has some sort of official sanction (as in the case of Jana Gana Mana), I think sticking to the original script should be the best option. Of course, if there IS some official decision to use Devanagari script, it would be a different matter (which would be interesting ... I think Bengali's phonetic difference is what prompted the parliament to adopt it in the Hindi version, to make it easier for the majority of non-Bengali Indians ... this is not the case with this song). -- Ragib 02:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
I think everyone should know this: Go through Sarvagnya's contributions and talk pages and you will find that he has a Anti-Hindi and Anti-Devanagiri bias. One of his major contributions to Wikipedia has been the deletion of Hindi names and Devanagiri script from every India related article.
He has done exactly the same thing for three songs which are very important in India(Jana Gana Mana, Saare Jahan se Accha, Vande Mataram). The fact that Devanagiri is a major script in India and Hindi is the official language of India means that every Indian will want to read this article and hence it is necessary to keep the Devanagiri version. Just because of ONE POV-pushing Wikipedian we are indulging in an endless debate!
And why should ONE biased Wikipedian be allowed to hold Wikipedia to ransom? How can one persons opinion be greater than the Constitution of India. The Constituent Assembly which had representatvies from all parts and communities of India had collectively taken the decision. If Sarvagnya is unhappy with it , let him keep it to himself, why should Wikipedia suffer? -- Deepak D'Souza 06:54, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
I think if we'll talk about the controversy surrounding Vande Mataram and Jana Gana Mana I think we should also mention the controversy surrounding this song since it was penned by the ideological patron of Pakistan. I have no personal views on this, I'm just stating facts. -- Antorjal 17:06, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
Wow, this article has sure seen a lot of see-saw reverts today and yesterday!!! I've protected it until the warring parties find a consensus. Edit warring is evil. Please cool down and get a consensus on the script issues. Thank you. -- Ragib 04:09, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
But what about consensus among editors here to include Hindi transliteration?I am sure none of us are taking help of sockpuppets to achive the consensus.
Mahawiki
07:07, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
And I didnt knew ur so concerned about WP policies and rule..especially when ur removing official warnings and the non-obscene message which u dont like?
[12]Again do u remember u had adviced me once against removing official warnings?(see the link)
Mahawiki
Mahawiki 18:20, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. Mahawiki 13:44, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
This user is a member of this (heated) discussion and for the benefit of everyone please see this.I hope the POV pushing and harrassing will now evade. Mahawiki 19:28, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
The article has been under protection since Oct 16, so I'm unprotecting it. Hopefully, this time we will avoid the edit wars that resulted in the protection. Thanks. -- Ragib 05:19, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia pages are not really meant to be kept protected all the time. The best thing is to reach a consensus based on discussion. The page had been protected since Oct 16, and there had been little activity in the talk page. So, it didn't make sense to keep the article protected any more. If there is a new edit war, please refer to
Request for page protection to submit a request for protection. Thank you. --
Ragib
06:40, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Now that I read the intro para, I can't help doubting the correctness of the following sentence:
The sulekha.com article it cites is very poorly written, and has very glaring misinformation about many other things (like claiming Rakesh Sharma was the first indian to land on moon, whereas he was actually the first Indian to go to space). The derogative language used in this source makes me think that it is more like a comment/Pakistan-bashing article rather than fact. So, I'd like to see more reliable sources for this statement about Iqbal. Thanks. -- Ragib 17:29, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
This is a citation that had been removed before. Dont know which vandal put it back again. Using such citations IS 'vandalism' of sorts because it is in extremely inflamatory language and can only be seen as trolling. I have gone ahead and removed it. Not only is it general nonsense and muck but the citation doesnt even conform to WP:citing sources, WP:notable sources policies. It is a personal blog of a 'nobody'. Sarvagnya 20:32, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Unfortunately, since I unprotected it on Nov 8, there have been 13 edits, and every one of them is a revert. This implies that the edit disputes are yet to be resolved. I urge the debating users to use the talk page rather than doing this endless cycle of reverts/counter-reverts. Thanks. -- Ragib 04:03, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
True, except one user has 7 reverts and 4 people combined for the other 6. Bakaman Bakatalk 04:08, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Urdu Text, and English and Hindi transliterations, and English Translation of the poem should be removed from the article. It is an unprecedented act which has never happened in any other article about a famous poem. Giving complete transliterations and translation and using misleading word as titles is complete abuse of Wikipedia and I consider it a part shameless propaganda (by Indian-imperialists) which is going on without any resistance of any kind. This is a blatant attempt to claim the poem's writer for India without considering that he was the one who proposed the whole idea of Pakistan. Szhaider 14:20, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
PS: I will wait for the response to above question for a couple more days. If I do not get any answer, I will remove entire text, transliterations and translation of the poem. It is absurd to copy an entire poem instead of having a comprehensive article about it. Szhaider 22:53, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
I have to say I don't like the lead sentence. It should be about a song; instead, it seems to be about describing Iqbal's history. As a neutral observer of India-Pakistan wars on Wikipedia, here is my take:
Here is a song that is overwhelmingly popular in India and little known in Pakistan. However, the irony is that most Indians don't really understand the song—I would wager that 95% of native Hindi speakers don't know the meaning of all the words in the song (let alone native speakers of the other Indian languages, except Urdu and perhaps Punjabi)—on the other hand, most Pakistanis do know most words in the song, even though they don't hear it much. This strange set of circumstances results in the following anomaly: The Indians know it is important, have heard it sung, but don't really understand it, so they write about Iqbal, about the circumstances of the song, etc.; Pakistanis have either never heard of the song, or have heard that it is not important, so they react by asking, "Do we really need a Wikipedia page on this piece of claptrap?" etc. The truth is that Iqbal, as befits a great man, was a complex figure. In his early years, his view of the world was more eclectic. This changed in this later years, and it showed in his literary output. Both versions of Iqbal need to be accommodated in a final version.
One way to deal with the problem is to write more about the meaning of the song, without compromising WP:NOR of course. For the Indians to write less about the circumstances of the song, (or political implications of the song for secular India) and for the Pakistanis to acknowledge that it is really a song about Pakistan as much as about the Republic of India—the words, certainly, apply to either country, as well as Bangladesh. For example, there is really no need for the Indian astronaut story: to repeat the first line of the song, as the astronaut did, is to repeat a cliche; had he quoted the second stanza (please read it), he would have shown understanding of the song. In addition, both Urdu and Hindi scripts should stay, since the song is popular in India (and therefore providing the entire script, will at the very least, help many Indians to really understand the words). Also, I wouldn't make too much of the stanza, "Mazahab nahin ..." that is often quoted as proof of Iqbal's secular vision etc. Of all the stanza's in the poem/song, it is really the least poetic, and I wonder if Iqbal added it more for the occasion than for the poetry. I mean there is really no need to discuss Iqbal's politics here, either secular or Islamic. Anyway, how about the following start:
“ | Saare Jahan Se Achcha is one of the enduring patriotic poems of the Urdu language. Written and recited by poet Allama Iqbal at Government College, Lahore in 1905, it quickly became an anthem of opposition to the British rule in India. The song, an ode to Hindustan—the land comprising present-day Bangladesh, India, and Pakistan—both celebrates and cherishes the land even as it laments its age-old anguish. | ” |
One of the features of the poem is that it is tinged with sadness, even an underlying despair. In my view that makes it unusual among patriotic poems (in any language). Perhaps, WP editors should look for sources that support that observation. It should be there. Also, the poem is poorly translated. I could improve the translation a little, if I had the time. But perhaps other editors can do this better.
Fowler&fowler «Talk» 17:57, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
I dont see how the song is about India. The song clearly states Hindustan, and he is referring to British India. India and Pakistan were born in 1947, therefore both nations can adapt the song for their countries. Unre4L ITY 23:47, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
“ | sāre jahān se acchā hindostān hamārā ham bulbulain hai is ki, yeh gulsitān hamārā parbat voh sab se ūnchā, hamsāya āsmān ka godi men kheltī hain is ki hazāron nadiyā maz'hab nahīn sikhātā āpas men bayr rakhnā |
” |
“ | ghurbat men hon agar ham, rahta hai dil vatan men samjho vahīn hamen bhī, dil hain jahān hamārā aye āb, raud, ganga, voh din hen yād tujhko yūnān-o-misr-o-romā, sab miṭ gaye jahān se kuch bāt hai keh hastī, miṭati nahīn hamārī iqbal ko'ī meharam, apnā nahīn jahān men |
” |
“ | ghurbat men hon agar ham, rahta hai dil vatan men samjho vahīn hamen bhī, dil hain jahān hamārā |
” |
I am not sure whether this part (the opening para) is the cause of the edit war, but in any case, I have protected the article to prevent the very awful edit war taking place in the article. It seems that the old debate about whether to include the Devnagari script/transliteration caused the edit war. I hope that will get resolved pretty soon. Thanks. -- Ragib 19:32, 20 January 2007.
The reason why the Hindi (Devanagari) script is relevant is that Hindi is the only language that shares a common grammar and base vocabulary with Urdu. Kannada doesn't, Telegu doesn't, Tamil doesn't, even Punjabi doesn't. It may be that the four easy Urdu stanzas of "Saare Jahan Se Achcha" that are a part of the popular song in India have been transliterated into Kannada, Telegu and other Indian languages, but even so, all 9 stanzas will not make sense to a Telegu or Kannada speaker, if they don't already understand basic Hindi or Urdu. Except for obvious Persian-orgin words like "pasban," "hamsaya," "gulistan," "ghurbat," etc. all words are shared with Hindi; in addition, Iqbal uses two words "parbat" and "bayr" which are Hindi words. The Hindi transliteration is especially relevant for Iqbal, since in his early years, he used many Hindi words in his poetry. Here is an example from Naya Shivala:
“ | Patthar kī moorti men, samjha hai tu khuda hai khak-e-vatan ka mujhko, har zarra devata hai |
” |
For readers who read both Hindi and English, but not Urdu, Devanagari transliterations provide more accurate pronunciation of the Urdu words than the English transliterations, on account of Devanagari's much larger alphabet. In addition, there is a long tradition of publishing tri-lingual editions (Urdu, Hindi, English) of Urdu poetry. For example, Oxford University Press, has published a tri-lingual edition of Iqbal's Shikwa & Jawab-i-Shikwa (complaint and answer). So, Wikipedia will be following a well-established precedent. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 02:51, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
-- Deepak D'Souza 09:16, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
Fowler&fowler «Talk» 22:03, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
Iqbal was a farsi (persian) and an Urdu poet. Obvioulsy his work was in Urdu, rather than hindi or hindustani as hindustani is a dilect, almost like a slang, however any poet wouldnt use it to write poetry..its like wordworth writting a Jay-Z song..the song is in Urdu, which obviously different from hindi..thanks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Uch ( talk • contribs) 00:35, 9 February 2007 (UTC).
This is a really nice article. It is nice to see the text in both Urdu and Devanagari. There are some minor errors, I will try to fix them sometime.
Iqbal was not Persian, but an Indian, specifically of Kashmiri (Brahmin) descent. He did later work for what is now Pakistan, but dies before Pakistan was created.
-- Vikramsingh 01:43, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I know the article is protected and the reason to it. However I have some other changes related to article.
- Muhammad Iqbal - National Anthem
Can some admin please make these changes to article? -- Webkami 15:41, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I am not going to debate about if Devanagari should be in article or not but I believe the script currently shown is wrong. The words || सारे... at end of every other line probably translate as Saare ... It is I think the style how it is sung, not the actual poetry. Can somebody who knows the script explain and remove this? -- Webkami 16:21, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Can somebody please make edits I suggested above. -- Webkami 10:05, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
Please make these changes as you think appropriate.
Muhammad Iqbal & National Anthem
I believe the Hindi transliteration script currently shown is wrong. The words || सारे... at end of every other line translate as Saare ... It is the style how it is sung, not the actual poetry. Below is the script without repetition of these words.
सारे जहाँ से अच्छा, िहन्दोस्तां हमारा|
हम बुलबुले हैं इसकी, यह गुलिसतां हमारा|
गुरबत में हों अगर हम, रहता है िदल वतन में|
समझो वहीं हमें भी, िदल हो जहाँ हमारा|
परबत वो सबसे ऊँचा, हमसाया आसमाँ का|
वो संतरी हमारा, वो पासवां हमारा|
गोदी में खेलती हैं, िजसकी हज़ारों निदयां|
गुलशन है िजसके दम से, रश्क-ए-िजनां हमारा|
ऐ आब-ए-रौंद-ए-गंगा! वो िदन है याद तुझको|
उतरा तेरे िकनारे, जब कारवां हमारा|
मजहब नहीं िसखाता, आपस में बैर रखना|
िहन्दी हैं हम वतन हैं, िहन्दोस्तां हमारा|
यूनान, िमस्र, रोमां, सब िमट गए जहाँ से|
अब तक मगर है बाकी, नाम-ओ-िनशां हमारा|
कुछ बात है िक हस्ती, िमटती नहीं हमारी|
सिदयों रहा है दुश्मन, दौर-ए-जहाँ हमारा|
'इक़बाल' कोई मरहूम, अपना नहीं जहाँ में|
मालूम क्या िकसी को, दर्द-ए-िनहां हमारा|
Thank you for your time -- Webkami 10:37, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
The transliteration of the 4th word of the poem, and the 4th and last word of heading, should be "Achchha" not "Achcha". Under the scheme of transliteration used, "chh" is the transpirated form of "ch", which is appropriate here. Both Urdu and Hindi speakers will recognize that the two consonant sound in the word "achchha" are different.
The song should first be presented in Urdu script as a recognition of the language used and the background of Iqbal. However, "Saare Jahan Se Achcha" is also a national patriotic song in India, and played a large role in the Independence movement, and as such it should also be written in the Hindi script, since Hindi is the national language of India (in contrast to official languages like Kannada and Bengali). The Roman script has been used, why isn't anyone complaining about that? What harm could it possibly do, to add in the Hindi script? Hindostani 22:39, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
Hello Fowler&fowler. Thanks for trying to improve the article. However, I feel that the previous version to which many of us agreed on here (albeit with Devanagari) was much better. While the old version mentioned short history, contemporary usage, etc. about the song (the title of the article), the new version seems to focus more on Iqbal's life. Many significant things are now deleted. Once again, I apologize for causing contention, but I honestly feel that the old version was much better. I look forward to hearing your comments on the issue. With warm regards, Anupam Talk 03:24, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Well, I finally found some time to look into the history of the poem. It turns out, it was written for children, and was actually published in 1904, before the incident about Iqbal singing it etc. Iqbal also wrote a second song (also for children) Tarana-i-Millat, which was published 6 years later in 1910, which was composed in the same meter as Tarana-i-Hindi (Sare Jahan), but which renounces many of the sentiments of Sare Jahan. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 04:29, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
Can somebody please address this? Sarvagnya 01:19, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
User Bharatveer recently changed the translation of the urdu word "Chin" in Iqbal's Taraana-i-Milli (Song of the Religious Community) from "Central Asia" to "China." I explained to him in my revert that "Chin" (albeit "China" in modern-Urdu) meant "Central Asia" (i.e. Chinese Turkestan (modern day Xinjiang), Russian Turkestan (modern day Kazakhstan, Kirgizstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, etc., all predominantly Muslim countries) in Iqbal's day, and that is what he was alluding to. At this, user Bharatveer, reverted again, with edit summary "rv to previous version : "cheen " is china; learn some urdu first or else cite sources." The problem is that the reference had already been provided in footnote 2. It is the web site of the poem at Columbia University and is translated by Frances Pritchett, Professor of Urdu Studies at Columbia. It specifically addresses the China/Central Asia issue. It is likely that user:Bharatveer didn't bother to check the footnote and its link. As for his injunction for me to learn some Urdu, I'd like to refer him to my two posts (of December 4 and December 7, 2006) at the Pakistan Talk page here. They are clearly not the work of someone unacquainted with Urdu. (See also my posts above on this talk page here and here.) It is one of the great humbling joys of Wikipedia work that one is enjoined to "learn" a language that one has familiarity with and affection for, even after one has re-written most of the article about a song in that language. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 15:57, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I intend no ill will with what I'm about to say, but I thought this should be kept in mind by people debating over the song's "secular nature" vs Iqbal's later views: The Two-Nation theory (regardless of whether it was right or wrong) did not posit any disavowal of an "Indian identity" for a "Muslim" or "Pakistani" identity. "India" was the common region and the League still saw themselves as Indians. They simply felt that India consisted of two nations or groups of people that, they felt, should be goverened separately. But this did not, for them, suggest any kind of secession of a Muslim homeland from India. The region would still be India and they would still be Indian, there would only be two nations within this region of India: "Pakistan" and "Hindustan" (though the latter originally implied all of northern south Asia, Pakistan included). They would all still be Indian by regional identification, Pakistani and Hindustani. So Iqbal never stopped viewing himself as an "Indian" (as per the song), he merely adopted a different intellectual/political framework with which to view how this "India" should be governed. And his framework saw India as consisting of two peoples that should politically rule their respective "portions" of India for themselves. This may have been a flawed idea but it was the idea he had. Afghan Historian ( talk) 22:35, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
This page is another one on Wikipedia where POV pushers periodically come through and attempt to either expand what they like or remove what they don't. An instance of this is an edit from mid-2010 in which an IP removed an entire section after some other POV pusher had expanded it. Here is the diff. I will be restoring the original version soon. Regards, Fowler&fowler «Talk» 00:30, 27 March 2011 (UTC)
Please present your objections, if any, here. 101.63.93.234 ( talk) 05:53, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
In the second last line, the محرم would be transliterated as महरम, but it is read मेहरम. I have left the word as it was (i.e., मेहरम). But then, for consistency, the name of the poem should be transliterated Tarānā not Tarāna. (Again, I have not changed the last a to ā.) 101.63.93.234 ( talk) 05:59, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
The Arabic equivalent for English Rome is Rūm, from whence the word has come into Urdu. روما can be read either as Rūmā or Romā; the former is correct. I just changed the word in both Hindi and English transliterations. 115.242.79.191 ( talk) 01:45, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
The canonical form of ہندوستان is Hindūstān / हिन्दूस्तान . (In Iqbal’s song, the word used is ہندوستاں / हिन्दूस्ताँ). You can confirm it by following the link below. https://archive.org/stream/dictionaryhindus030502mbp#page/n809/mode/1up [Duncan Forbes’s Dictionary, p.792.] 115.240.102.85 ( talk) 15:46, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
(i) If سارے / सारे is Saare, then جہاں / जहाँ should be Jahaan. (ii) The word اچھا is not अछ्छा (Achcha/Achchaa), but अच्छा (Acchaa). 101.63.68.13 ( talk) 06:14, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
After reading the message by the IP above I used consistent transliteration in the title. Dharmadhyaksha reverted this to an inconsistent version again. I hope changing it back, or at least to ‘Sare Jahan se Accha’ should have no objection.— ШαмıQ✍ @ 16:27, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
Personally, I don't think the WP page name should be Sare or Saare anything. It should be Tarani-i-Hindi, the most popular rending in scholarly sources of Iqbal's name for the song. After all in English poems, we don't replace the name of the poem with half its first line, even if that line is much better known than the poem. (For example, The boy stood on the burning deck redirects to Casabianca (poem).) Fowler&fowler «Talk» 19:58, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
The pronunciation is: Hindōsta;N (in the Naim/Memon/Pritchett transliteration notation) or hindostāñ in WP. And that is how it is pronounced in Persian as well. In verse, (as in Tarana-i-Hindi) for the sake of the meter it can be pronounced: Hindōsita;N. I notice that now on Frances Pritchett's Columbia web site it is being transliterated at HindūstaN;, but most likely it is a typo; it didn't use to be that way a number of years ago, when I rewrote this article. I've never heard anyone pronouncing it Hindūstan except in modern Hindi/Urdu with stress on the third syllable. Here the stress is on the second syllable. Please change back to the correct version. In any case ū is pronounced oo and no one even in Hind/Urdu pronounces it Hindoostan. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 13:32, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
I've changed the new garbage romanizations back to the originals. I'm assuming the same nonsense has been repeated in the Devanagari script. Could someone please change it back to the one corresponding to Hindōstāñ? Thanks. Sorry to lose my cool a little bit, but it was beginning to look and sound ridiculous. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 19:51, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
Two sentences translate the word as ‘anthem’. Though that captures the meaning correctly, I don’t think it is the literal meaning of the word. The literal meaning according to Duncan Forbes is: modulation, harmony, voice, song, melody, symphony, trill, shake, quaver; a king of song. [link: https://archive.org/stream/dictionaryhindus030502mbp#page/n255/mode/1up]
Link to the meaning by another dictionary is given below. (meanings both in Urdu and English) The 3rd point in the Urdu text explains what Duncan means by a “a kind of song”:
1. common nag͟hamā/नग़मा or song, ….
3. A special song in which instead of meaningful words a few special meaningless words are used, [words] like: tā, tūm, tā, nā, tinā, nā, dar, nā, etc.
http://182.180.102.251:8081/oud/ViewWord.aspx?refid=9814
In short, no “anthem”. 115.240.27.48 ( talk) 17:55, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
I used to be a regular WP editor upto a few years back, but I stopped editing because of people like you. There are a thousand more interesting things waiting for me; I don’t have the time to argue with idiots.
You are welcome to reign your personal fiefdom! Goodbye, everyone! 115.241.162.75 ( talk) 01:31, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
Recent edits by an IP: 2405:204:52AE:66CE:0:0:1EC:20B0 ( talk · contribs) are conflating the poem and future music composed for the poem long after the poem's death. The music is incidental to the poem. It is not a fact of its notability in scholarly sources. It belongs to the popularity in India section, not to the lead. Best, Fowler&fowler «Talk» 19:37, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
Okay, I didn't know how many things went disputed on this article.
I just moved the Hindi lyrics to the table besides the column of transliteration. Why blaming me for inclusion of texts? It was already there. It is still.
Well, instead of keeping in mind every rule there, I generally go with the rule of thumb when editing (as long as I have verifiable and worth mentioning information). That's why I moved the lyrics to the table and did acknowledge what I had done. Maybe, there was a violation of manual of styles instead. This is just a humble request to kindly redirect an inexperienced users like me to the relevant rules and guidelines instead these ultimatum like texts. @ Fowler&fowler
:)
Thanks! MrAnmol ( talk) 15:05, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
"All transliteration should be from the written form in the original script of the original language of the name or term. The original text in the original script may also be included for reference and checking."