Italic text
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 11 March 2014 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | It is requested that an image or photograph of Sara Dylan be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
Is Sara Dylan Jewish? I ask because the article on her son Jesse is listed under Jewish American Film Directors, but if she's not, then he's not.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.102.132.230 ( talk • contribs)
But if she's not, then he's not? That's a stupid thing to say. Judaism is a relgion. Learn your facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.187.76.236 ( talk) 12:10, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Well put, although what Wikipedia means by Jewish may be another matter altogether. I suspect Wikipedia's definition is vague and variable. TheScotch ( talk) 07:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
84.9.118.19 ( talk) — Preceding undated comment added 18:51, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Some factual errors I've corrected: (1) Despite one solitary biographer saying Sara met Bob in the Village in 1962, let's not assert that as fact. Such a meeting does not match up with the chronology of Dylan's early years, and ALL of Dylan's other biographers disagree with this. It is 99% certain that he met Sara while on tour in Europe, while he was still seeing Baez, and married her eight months later. (2) They were married in a civil ceremony in a judge’s chambers, not on a lawn. (3) Maria Dylan is married to musician Peter Himmelman and uses his name; therefore the fact that she does not use the name Dylan is immaterial. CagedRage 20:42, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
(1)The One solitary biographer you are refering to is the only biographer that ANY member of the Dylan or Lownds family has spoken to. So you are dealing with a source that lived under the same roof as Sara - her Stepson. (2) Comes from an unnamed member of the Dylan Family.(where's the source for the "in chambers wedding"?) (3) Anna Dylan is also married, but chose to retain the name. Lion King 21:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC) Dylan met Lownds in Spring 1965? Well how come they both attended the Grossman's wedding November 12th 1964? And while the Grossmans were on their honeymoon Dylan was living with Lownds and her daughter Maria in a room he was renting in the Chelsea Hotel - Room 211, also 1964. Lion King 23:26, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
"This biography is based on painstaking new research. As a solid foundation to the book I obtained a considerable amount of previously unseen documentary evidence about Bob Dylan's professional and family life. This includes birth, marriage, and death certificates, court papers, and real estate and property tax records. These documents have enabled me, in many cases to pin down the precise details in areas where there has been widespread, and often erroneous, speculation." Howard Sounes 2001. Lion King
Within the Merging section of this discussion page Telsa wrote this:
Incidentally, if the woman's only real claim to fame is genuinely that she married someone for some temporary period of time, she should not have her own article at all. She should instead merely have a redirect to [famous-person-she-married#Personal Life] (or whatever). I am not sure it's clear that this is her only claim to fame: both articles mention that she inspired at least some of Dylan's lyrics. But again, if this is all she did, then she should be mentioned in the appropriate article about Dylan or about his works.
This sounds to me a fair argument, one which was never disputed or corroborated, and I'd like to take it up in it's own section.
Within Factual errors, again as an aside, Lion King wrote this:
Sara Dylan is "just about encyclopedic" because she inspired some of his songs and bore his children.:
I'd suppose the wives of virtually all famous persons bore them their children (have they children) and that at least some of the songs of all songwriters whose works are at all personal were "inspired" to some extent by their spouses. In other words, neither of these putative qualifications is any distinction at all. (And since the second is no distinction, in this case as in all others, if we do retain this article, the only songs it should mention at all are "Sara" and "Sad-Eyed Lady of the Lowlands" because the former refers to Sara Dylan specifically by name and specifically alleges that the latter was written "for" her: "Staying up for days in the Chelsea Hotel/Writing 'Sad-Eyed Lady of the Lowlands' for you".) TheScotch ( talk) 08:40, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
is tru that dylan adopted maria dylan because is his natural dougther? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.49.241.227 ( talk) 21:45, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
Shirley Marlin Nozinski. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.27.109.117 ( talk) 09:35, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
No Citation or evidence of proof is given for any of this section:
Divorce from Bob Dylan
Following the tour, the Dylan's marriage took a turn for the worse, Bob became continuously quarrelsome,' according to Sara. He sometimes looked at her in a menacing way and ordered from the house. 'I was in such fear of him that I locked the doors to protect myself from his violent outbursts and temper tantrums.' She also claimed the children were disturbed by Bob's 'bizarre lifestyle.' Part of this lifestyle was womanizing. Sara claimed that she came down to breakfast on February 13. 1977 to find Bob at the table with the children and a woman named Malka whom Bob had apparently moved into a house on the estate. Sara believed that he wanted Malka in the mansion. There was an argument and Bob allegedly hit Sara, injuring her jaw. She claims he then told her to leave.
69.171.163.128 ( talk) 14:22, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
Signed in now.
Will Dockery ( talk) 14:24, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
I have totally re-written this article with new cites to address the flaws in this article which Alatari has pointed out. Mick gold ( talk) 18:11, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
I've removed mention of the song " Abandoned Love" from Sara Dylan article because the cite given Bob Dylan: The Stories Behind 70 Of His Greatest Songs contains incorrect and nonsensical information. For example, the cite says of the song " Let Me Die In My Footsteps": "It also serves as an anti-war comment on the Cuban Missile Crisis." LMDIMF was recorded in April 1962, and the Cuban Missile Crisis took place in October 1962, so this is clearly false. Article says about " Rainy Day Women #12 & 35": "If you multiply 12 by 35 you get 420 - a number associated with pot culture. Far out, dude." This sounds like gibberish to me. This NME website is clearly not a WP:RS so I've deleted the Abandoned Love reference. Mick gold ( talk) 08:21, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
Fair enough on discrediting the NME writer! Understandable, as those other entries look pretty sloppy. I felt like there was a reference to "Abandoned Love" being about Sara in Clinton Heylin's exhaustive BD biography Behind the Shades: Revisited; sure enough on page 406, Heylin talks about the recording session for Desire, where Sara sat in the control room and watched Bob perform "Sara" and "Abandoned Love", one after another:
"To sing 'Don't ever leave me, don't ever go' and 'Won't you descent from the throne from where you sit?' in consecutive songs--at a session at which your wife and subject matter sits on the other side of the mirror--hardly suggests an unquestioning re-entry into the marriage arena."
Adding a bit about "Abandoned Love" in the "Songs which notable critics think Dylan wrote about Sara" section. Shamrox ( talk) 04:23, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
Italic text
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 11 March 2014 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | It is requested that an image or photograph of Sara Dylan be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
Is Sara Dylan Jewish? I ask because the article on her son Jesse is listed under Jewish American Film Directors, but if she's not, then he's not.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.102.132.230 ( talk • contribs)
But if she's not, then he's not? That's a stupid thing to say. Judaism is a relgion. Learn your facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.187.76.236 ( talk) 12:10, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Well put, although what Wikipedia means by Jewish may be another matter altogether. I suspect Wikipedia's definition is vague and variable. TheScotch ( talk) 07:34, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
84.9.118.19 ( talk) — Preceding undated comment added 18:51, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
Some factual errors I've corrected: (1) Despite one solitary biographer saying Sara met Bob in the Village in 1962, let's not assert that as fact. Such a meeting does not match up with the chronology of Dylan's early years, and ALL of Dylan's other biographers disagree with this. It is 99% certain that he met Sara while on tour in Europe, while he was still seeing Baez, and married her eight months later. (2) They were married in a civil ceremony in a judge’s chambers, not on a lawn. (3) Maria Dylan is married to musician Peter Himmelman and uses his name; therefore the fact that she does not use the name Dylan is immaterial. CagedRage 20:42, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
(1)The One solitary biographer you are refering to is the only biographer that ANY member of the Dylan or Lownds family has spoken to. So you are dealing with a source that lived under the same roof as Sara - her Stepson. (2) Comes from an unnamed member of the Dylan Family.(where's the source for the "in chambers wedding"?) (3) Anna Dylan is also married, but chose to retain the name. Lion King 21:47, 7 June 2006 (UTC) Dylan met Lownds in Spring 1965? Well how come they both attended the Grossman's wedding November 12th 1964? And while the Grossmans were on their honeymoon Dylan was living with Lownds and her daughter Maria in a room he was renting in the Chelsea Hotel - Room 211, also 1964. Lion King 23:26, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
"This biography is based on painstaking new research. As a solid foundation to the book I obtained a considerable amount of previously unseen documentary evidence about Bob Dylan's professional and family life. This includes birth, marriage, and death certificates, court papers, and real estate and property tax records. These documents have enabled me, in many cases to pin down the precise details in areas where there has been widespread, and often erroneous, speculation." Howard Sounes 2001. Lion King
Within the Merging section of this discussion page Telsa wrote this:
Incidentally, if the woman's only real claim to fame is genuinely that she married someone for some temporary period of time, she should not have her own article at all. She should instead merely have a redirect to [famous-person-she-married#Personal Life] (or whatever). I am not sure it's clear that this is her only claim to fame: both articles mention that she inspired at least some of Dylan's lyrics. But again, if this is all she did, then she should be mentioned in the appropriate article about Dylan or about his works.
This sounds to me a fair argument, one which was never disputed or corroborated, and I'd like to take it up in it's own section.
Within Factual errors, again as an aside, Lion King wrote this:
Sara Dylan is "just about encyclopedic" because she inspired some of his songs and bore his children.:
I'd suppose the wives of virtually all famous persons bore them their children (have they children) and that at least some of the songs of all songwriters whose works are at all personal were "inspired" to some extent by their spouses. In other words, neither of these putative qualifications is any distinction at all. (And since the second is no distinction, in this case as in all others, if we do retain this article, the only songs it should mention at all are "Sara" and "Sad-Eyed Lady of the Lowlands" because the former refers to Sara Dylan specifically by name and specifically alleges that the latter was written "for" her: "Staying up for days in the Chelsea Hotel/Writing 'Sad-Eyed Lady of the Lowlands' for you".) TheScotch ( talk) 08:40, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
is tru that dylan adopted maria dylan because is his natural dougther? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.49.241.227 ( talk) 21:45, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
Shirley Marlin Nozinski. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.27.109.117 ( talk) 09:35, 29 May 2013 (UTC)
No Citation or evidence of proof is given for any of this section:
Divorce from Bob Dylan
Following the tour, the Dylan's marriage took a turn for the worse, Bob became continuously quarrelsome,' according to Sara. He sometimes looked at her in a menacing way and ordered from the house. 'I was in such fear of him that I locked the doors to protect myself from his violent outbursts and temper tantrums.' She also claimed the children were disturbed by Bob's 'bizarre lifestyle.' Part of this lifestyle was womanizing. Sara claimed that she came down to breakfast on February 13. 1977 to find Bob at the table with the children and a woman named Malka whom Bob had apparently moved into a house on the estate. Sara believed that he wanted Malka in the mansion. There was an argument and Bob allegedly hit Sara, injuring her jaw. She claims he then told her to leave.
69.171.163.128 ( talk) 14:22, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
Signed in now.
Will Dockery ( talk) 14:24, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
I have totally re-written this article with new cites to address the flaws in this article which Alatari has pointed out. Mick gold ( talk) 18:11, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
I've removed mention of the song " Abandoned Love" from Sara Dylan article because the cite given Bob Dylan: The Stories Behind 70 Of His Greatest Songs contains incorrect and nonsensical information. For example, the cite says of the song " Let Me Die In My Footsteps": "It also serves as an anti-war comment on the Cuban Missile Crisis." LMDIMF was recorded in April 1962, and the Cuban Missile Crisis took place in October 1962, so this is clearly false. Article says about " Rainy Day Women #12 & 35": "If you multiply 12 by 35 you get 420 - a number associated with pot culture. Far out, dude." This sounds like gibberish to me. This NME website is clearly not a WP:RS so I've deleted the Abandoned Love reference. Mick gold ( talk) 08:21, 5 July 2016 (UTC)
Fair enough on discrediting the NME writer! Understandable, as those other entries look pretty sloppy. I felt like there was a reference to "Abandoned Love" being about Sara in Clinton Heylin's exhaustive BD biography Behind the Shades: Revisited; sure enough on page 406, Heylin talks about the recording session for Desire, where Sara sat in the control room and watched Bob perform "Sara" and "Abandoned Love", one after another:
"To sing 'Don't ever leave me, don't ever go' and 'Won't you descent from the throne from where you sit?' in consecutive songs--at a session at which your wife and subject matter sits on the other side of the mirror--hardly suggests an unquestioning re-entry into the marriage arena."
Adding a bit about "Abandoned Love" in the "Songs which notable critics think Dylan wrote about Sara" section. Shamrox ( talk) 04:23, 13 July 2016 (UTC)