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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 25 August 2021 and 6 December 2021. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
BassSean.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 08:40, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Certain assertions about the early years of this "university" do not appear to be reliable. I believe the article should be tagged for original research. -- Ghirla -трёп- 10:47, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
The article covers the school during it's founding and golden age, but what happened to it after that? 220.253.8.29 02:23, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Seems to me somebody knows virtually nuffink about chronology. How can the Sankoré date to 989 A. D., if Timbuktu dates back to the 11th century? Did the mosque come before the settlement? If the author of this nonsense reads the weblink "About Sankoré", he/she will find this year in the quotation from the Tarikh al-Fettakh, but it refers to 989 of Muslim chronology, and this transfers the date of foundation into the 15th century. Ever heard of 622 A. D. = beginning of Muslim chronology? If not, the person in question should leave his/her fingers off an article on Muslim history. 172.176.126.24 09:21, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
IN RESPONSE TO THE ABOVE REMARKS: The author was using some strange, arcane method of dating (I suspect it was based on some Islamic landmark date, rather than with regard to the Common Era/Anno Domini method of dating, in which this would be the year 2007, thus all his dates were like 600-700 years off. I found that very annoying and frankly stupid, so I took it out. KevinOKeeffe 23:24, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
timbuktu's been inhabited since at least the 900s and probably long before that. i'll check out the al-Fettakh doc, but Sankore was already oprating by 1350 so the document's definately wrong if it says that is when Sankore was built. Scott Free 13:49, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
On the history page an anonymous contributor claims female students were unlikely at a 17th century Muslim university. I can agree with this, but I was writing about the period prior to 1591. But maybe it might be useful to add some details: The article about Sankore University, on which the main author of this article seems to heavily rely, explicitly says „that the intellectual freedom enjoyed in Western Universities was inspired from universities like Sankore and Qurtuba (Muslim Spain) universities“. ( http://www.muslimheritage.com/topics/default.cfm?ArticleID=371) This is not surprising, if we are to believe Dr Abd al-Kader Haidara, curator of the Mamma Haidara Library at Timbuktu, a leading institution dedicated to the conservation of Muslim manuscripts. He says that many documents dating back to the time before 1591 cover topics such as women’s rights. ( http://www.altmuslim.com/perm.php?id=1908_0_25_0_M - Unearthing The Lost Literary Heritage Of West Africa) We have to keep in mind that no European scholar dared to think about such topics before the end of the 19th century and that women demanding equal rights in the name of liberty were decapitated during the French Revolution in the name of this very political ideal. In contrast to this women among the Massufa Berbers (Tuareg) were entitled to many liberties according to Ibn Battuta. In their traditional culture the female portion of the people is the keeper of old knowledge including the traditonal scripture (tifinagh). As the contributors to Ivan Van Sertima’s book about „The Golden Age of the Moor“ explicitly state, Moorish – i. e. Berber – society gave women the opportunity to „win new freedoms for themselves“, and this included the opportunity to work as „doctors and lawyers and professors“. (See Sertima, Golden Age of the Moor. New Brunswick – London 2006, p. 86 & p. 269) But where could they have acquired their knowledge and their skill unless they were admitted to Muslim universities like the ones mentioned above – in particular to Sankore, which was dominated by Massufa scholars like Ahmad Baba (called „al-Massufi“)? Frozenqueen 10:13, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Part of this article's bibliography includes Ivan Van Sertima's work- and I can't really say that's all too reliable, considering he's such a prominent afrocentrist. Is John G. Jackson even a real historian?
This article contains a lot of really flagrant Afrocentric propaganda/sloganeering that is almost painful to read. Its so biased as to be literally comical. I took out some of the more eggregious examples, but I'm sure there's more work to be done to raise this article to the level where it isn't a joke. KevinOKeeffe 22:49, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
Scott Free 13:24, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Wow, the Eurocentric nonsense has seemingly grown in intensity, but I don't feel that it is nothing that can't be handled. Actually, the number is approximate and maybe even a bit speculative, but this in fact seems to be a number often cited by mainstream references. For example, this number is cited by the
National Geographic society, the
timbuktu foundation, president of the Timbuktu Heritage Institute(Issa Mohamed), Professor Ousmane Kane, the Timbuktu Manuscripts Project(who is in conjunction with UNESCO), and by like everyone else except you. If there was a stirring controversy over the validity of this figure, it seems extremely suspect that you'd aggressively refer to such claims as "lies", you'd be calling all of these mainstream sources liars simply because their numbers don't agree with what you felt was capable while at the same time not recognizing it as a controversy or conflict of data.
As far as the organization and learning at the University of Sankore being fabricated, again, you are simply pleading to Eurocentric suspicion and ignorance, even though this is established, mainstream view..
Quote:
^The best that you can do is present alternative sources however, there is no established controversy and to suggest so, while referring to particular views that seem to threaten your very own world view as "lies", indeed has to be rooted in bias as innate intelligence, research and/or rationality would not lead anyone to make such pronouncements. No one is concerned with easing the soul of certain groups, but it is extremely and I mean vitally important that one counter the repression, distortion and obvious bias as it concerns the history of any people, you sir, are a victim of all of the above and can therefore be disregarded as a trouble maker, unless of course you have any knowledgeable insight, of which you haven't provided so far. Still waiting. Socio-political accusations and rants will be disregarded. Taharqa 02:20, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
At Soman.. Please discuss before making such hasty edits as a lot of work has been done subsequent to your revision. Taharqa 20:17, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Based on the long standing objections to the extent text, the fact that the extent text at time of editing ( http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Sankore_Madrasah&oldid=261576710) was largely based on a non scholarly & promotional source without any clear citations, and that advanced claims that seemed largely based on modern concerns rather than on scholarship, I edited the entry down to more fundamental facts. I note that the French language entry (with editors familiar with the more abundant Fr. lang. primary scholarship in this area) is substantially more modest in its claims. At time of editing the source pages were not available, but the text (esp. re degrees) seemed to be a light edit off of said page, and the same pages seem to have been entirely unscholarly (in comparing with information on other contemporary Islamic universities, re structure -never mind the not yet existant idea of degrees). Further revisions should focus on scholarly fundamentals and confirmed understanding. ( collounsbury ( talk) 21:01, 10 January 2009 (UTC))
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 25 August 2021 and 6 December 2021. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
BassSean.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 08:40, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
Certain assertions about the early years of this "university" do not appear to be reliable. I believe the article should be tagged for original research. -- Ghirla -трёп- 10:47, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
The article covers the school during it's founding and golden age, but what happened to it after that? 220.253.8.29 02:23, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Seems to me somebody knows virtually nuffink about chronology. How can the Sankoré date to 989 A. D., if Timbuktu dates back to the 11th century? Did the mosque come before the settlement? If the author of this nonsense reads the weblink "About Sankoré", he/she will find this year in the quotation from the Tarikh al-Fettakh, but it refers to 989 of Muslim chronology, and this transfers the date of foundation into the 15th century. Ever heard of 622 A. D. = beginning of Muslim chronology? If not, the person in question should leave his/her fingers off an article on Muslim history. 172.176.126.24 09:21, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
IN RESPONSE TO THE ABOVE REMARKS: The author was using some strange, arcane method of dating (I suspect it was based on some Islamic landmark date, rather than with regard to the Common Era/Anno Domini method of dating, in which this would be the year 2007, thus all his dates were like 600-700 years off. I found that very annoying and frankly stupid, so I took it out. KevinOKeeffe 23:24, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
timbuktu's been inhabited since at least the 900s and probably long before that. i'll check out the al-Fettakh doc, but Sankore was already oprating by 1350 so the document's definately wrong if it says that is when Sankore was built. Scott Free 13:49, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
On the history page an anonymous contributor claims female students were unlikely at a 17th century Muslim university. I can agree with this, but I was writing about the period prior to 1591. But maybe it might be useful to add some details: The article about Sankore University, on which the main author of this article seems to heavily rely, explicitly says „that the intellectual freedom enjoyed in Western Universities was inspired from universities like Sankore and Qurtuba (Muslim Spain) universities“. ( http://www.muslimheritage.com/topics/default.cfm?ArticleID=371) This is not surprising, if we are to believe Dr Abd al-Kader Haidara, curator of the Mamma Haidara Library at Timbuktu, a leading institution dedicated to the conservation of Muslim manuscripts. He says that many documents dating back to the time before 1591 cover topics such as women’s rights. ( http://www.altmuslim.com/perm.php?id=1908_0_25_0_M - Unearthing The Lost Literary Heritage Of West Africa) We have to keep in mind that no European scholar dared to think about such topics before the end of the 19th century and that women demanding equal rights in the name of liberty were decapitated during the French Revolution in the name of this very political ideal. In contrast to this women among the Massufa Berbers (Tuareg) were entitled to many liberties according to Ibn Battuta. In their traditional culture the female portion of the people is the keeper of old knowledge including the traditonal scripture (tifinagh). As the contributors to Ivan Van Sertima’s book about „The Golden Age of the Moor“ explicitly state, Moorish – i. e. Berber – society gave women the opportunity to „win new freedoms for themselves“, and this included the opportunity to work as „doctors and lawyers and professors“. (See Sertima, Golden Age of the Moor. New Brunswick – London 2006, p. 86 & p. 269) But where could they have acquired their knowledge and their skill unless they were admitted to Muslim universities like the ones mentioned above – in particular to Sankore, which was dominated by Massufa scholars like Ahmad Baba (called „al-Massufi“)? Frozenqueen 10:13, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Part of this article's bibliography includes Ivan Van Sertima's work- and I can't really say that's all too reliable, considering he's such a prominent afrocentrist. Is John G. Jackson even a real historian?
This article contains a lot of really flagrant Afrocentric propaganda/sloganeering that is almost painful to read. Its so biased as to be literally comical. I took out some of the more eggregious examples, but I'm sure there's more work to be done to raise this article to the level where it isn't a joke. KevinOKeeffe 22:49, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
Scott Free 13:24, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Wow, the Eurocentric nonsense has seemingly grown in intensity, but I don't feel that it is nothing that can't be handled. Actually, the number is approximate and maybe even a bit speculative, but this in fact seems to be a number often cited by mainstream references. For example, this number is cited by the
National Geographic society, the
timbuktu foundation, president of the Timbuktu Heritage Institute(Issa Mohamed), Professor Ousmane Kane, the Timbuktu Manuscripts Project(who is in conjunction with UNESCO), and by like everyone else except you. If there was a stirring controversy over the validity of this figure, it seems extremely suspect that you'd aggressively refer to such claims as "lies", you'd be calling all of these mainstream sources liars simply because their numbers don't agree with what you felt was capable while at the same time not recognizing it as a controversy or conflict of data.
As far as the organization and learning at the University of Sankore being fabricated, again, you are simply pleading to Eurocentric suspicion and ignorance, even though this is established, mainstream view..
Quote:
^The best that you can do is present alternative sources however, there is no established controversy and to suggest so, while referring to particular views that seem to threaten your very own world view as "lies", indeed has to be rooted in bias as innate intelligence, research and/or rationality would not lead anyone to make such pronouncements. No one is concerned with easing the soul of certain groups, but it is extremely and I mean vitally important that one counter the repression, distortion and obvious bias as it concerns the history of any people, you sir, are a victim of all of the above and can therefore be disregarded as a trouble maker, unless of course you have any knowledgeable insight, of which you haven't provided so far. Still waiting. Socio-political accusations and rants will be disregarded. Taharqa 02:20, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
At Soman.. Please discuss before making such hasty edits as a lot of work has been done subsequent to your revision. Taharqa 20:17, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Based on the long standing objections to the extent text, the fact that the extent text at time of editing ( http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Sankore_Madrasah&oldid=261576710) was largely based on a non scholarly & promotional source without any clear citations, and that advanced claims that seemed largely based on modern concerns rather than on scholarship, I edited the entry down to more fundamental facts. I note that the French language entry (with editors familiar with the more abundant Fr. lang. primary scholarship in this area) is substantially more modest in its claims. At time of editing the source pages were not available, but the text (esp. re degrees) seemed to be a light edit off of said page, and the same pages seem to have been entirely unscholarly (in comparing with information on other contemporary Islamic universities, re structure -never mind the not yet existant idea of degrees). Further revisions should focus on scholarly fundamentals and confirmed understanding. ( collounsbury ( talk) 21:01, 10 January 2009 (UTC))