![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I am from St.Helens and the canal is generally referred to here as either Sankey Canal or just "the canal". In fact, I don't think I've heard anyone here say "the St.Helens Canal" EVER. (Similarly, people from Runcorn don't say "Runcorn Bridge" (as most others do), just "the bridge"). However, as mentioned below, Warrington Borough Council has signs at Sankey Bridges that say "ST. HELENS CANAL". Halton Borough Council also has some information signs towards Spike Island that mention "ST. HELENS CANAL", the name which also appears on Ordnance Survey and other maps. I agree that there is a lot of anti-St.Helens bias in this discussion. The supposedly "misinformed locals" of St.Helens (which apparently is "a distant town"(!), rather than a neighbouring one) do not even say (in my experience) "St.Helens Canal". If for some reason it annoys you that people do use this (completely legitimate) name for the canal, I suggest you direct your ire towards, for one, Warrington Borough Council, who apparently like the name "ST. HELENS CANAL" so much that they even put it on signs next to the canal :). But please don't pollute Wikipedia with your biased, misinformed information.
I've removed "but only in St.Helens (the rest of the canal, away from St.Helens, has always been the Sankey Canal)" pending sources being cited. I have never lived in St Helens or elsewhere locally, and have often heard it refered to as the St Helens Canal. British Waterways refer to "St Helens Canal (Sankey Canal)". I've also removed the reference to "mainly by misinformed locals", as again no sources are cited, and this has the ring of a local quarrel which has no place here. StephenDawson 11:44, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Look here Stephen .... http://www.warrington.gov.uk/images/sankey_winwick_history_trail_tcm15-5312.pdf 80.192.242.187 16:43, 15 February 2007 (UTC) JemmyH
The Sankey Navigation (canal) was opened in 1757. It did not go to St.Helens. It went to a part of the Lancashire Coalfield which was being productively mined by a company called Richard Evans. St.Helens was only linked to the canal some eighteen years later by the St.Helens section. This section is the St,Helens canal. I don't know, but maybe, the residents of the Warrington areas of Sankey, Great Sankey etc. refer to the Sankey Canal as that is it's historic title and St.Helens, to them, is just a distant town. Probably? (this unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187.
Here is a couple of links for you to look at. One is by Warrington Borough Council. Both refer to Sankey Canal. Neither refer to St.Helens canal.
http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?txtkeys1=Sankey
http://www.warrington.gov.uk/images/sankey_winwick_history_trail_tcm15-5312.pdf
Warrington Borough Council has signs along the canal near Sankey Bridges which say "St.Helens Canal" (no mention of Sankey). These signs have been there for years. The same stretch is called St.Helens Canal on Ordnance Survey maps, on Google maps and on any other map I've looked it. To say that "Sankey Canal" is the official/proper name for the canal as a whole is simply untrue. It seems this article has attracted contributors (or perhaps one in particular) with a heavy anti-St.Helens bias. There's nothing unusual about the canal not having an "official" name or it being known by more than one name. Let's stick to the facts.
Just to let anyone know, who may be interested, that I have driven past the 'St.Helens Branch' of the Sankey Canal, tonight, and have seen a large sign, recently sited, which says, in block capitals, ............ 'SANKEY CANAL'. It looks to have been put there by ......... 'British Waterways'. The name 'St.Helens Canal' is purely a truism. Wikipedia should be containing fact, the OFFICIAL name is 'Sankey Canal'. 80.192.242.187 23:36, 16 January 2007 (UTC) JimmyH.
YOU are the 'illiterate' one, thinking YOU are an authority on something you know nothing about. The canal has signs along it's route saying 'The Sankey Canal', placed there by British Waterways. It is on record starting as the 'Sankey Navigation', changing to it's 'true' title of Canal when it was discovered that it wasn't a 'navigation' at all, but a 'true canal'. It is OFFICIALLY called the Sankey Canal. St.Helens canal is an 'unofficial' name, relating to the St.Helens Section, used only by those who know no better. Now then, 'Truism', as I thought, was something that had 'become' true, over a period of time, due to constant use. The same meaning seems to be thought by Regan123 (maybe he's illiterate too), as he has used it to describe the Wigan claims of 'Marks and Spencer, founded in Wigan' and the 'Worlds Biggest Steam Engine is in Wigan', both of which are believed by Wigan people to be true and are promoted as such by Wigan Council's 'History Shop'. Both are false, but are 'believed' to be true by constant useage and publicity, so have become a 'Truism'. But, of course, I might be wrong, I sometimes am!? I'll look it up. Thanks for pointing out my illiteracy, it is appreciated as I can now do something about it. 80.192.242.187 13:00, 30 January 2007 (UTC) JemmyH.
.... Often the word (truism) is used to disguise the fact that a proposition is really just a 'half-truth or an opinion', an 'axiom', especially in 'rhetoric'. 'Axiom: .. Unlike theorems, axioms are neither derived by principles of deduction, nor are they 'demonstrable by formal proofs'. Instead, an axiom is 'taken for granted as valid', as an 'assumption'. Rhetoric: ... the art or technique of persuasion through the use of oral language.
Taking this into consideration, the name 'St.Helens Canal' is 'taken for granted as valid', but is not 'demonstrable by formal proofs', as it is 'formally' named the 'Sankey Canal'. The name 'St.Helens Canal' is, clearly, a 'half-truth or an opinion' formulated by 'rhetoric' over a period of time. So, I conclude that to call the 'Sankey Canal' the 'St.Helens Canal' is a 'Truism'. And that's true that is! Yours Illiterately, 80.192.242.187 21:25, 30 January 2007 (UTC) JemmyH.
I suppose 'false information' and 'local rumour' HAS a place in THIS encyclopaedia, then?
Links which refer to the Sankey Canal using it's 'correct' and 'official' title .....
http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?txtkeys1=Sankey
http://www.warrington.gov.uk/images/sankey_winwick_history_trail_tcm15-5312.pdf
80.192.242.187 16:46, 15 February 2007 (UTC) JemmyH.
Fnarf999, you are totally wrong there. I have said this ... The section of Canal from St.Helens, joining onto the Sankey Canal, was constructed some eighteen years AFTER the Sankey Canal started operating. That section of canal IS called the St.Helens canal (because it's in St.Helens). The St.Helens Canal JOINS the Sankey Canal (called that because it runs along the Sankey Valley, alongside the Sankey Brook). The St.Helens section was an 'addition', constructed for the benefit of St.Helens which was a growing town, and was connected to an existing canal system.
I have also provided viable links to the Sankey Viaduct articles discussion page. That article gives it's wrong location. When I provide the correct information , it is immediately removed.
Please make up your mind whether you want me to provide viable links to my contributions, or not. When I provide a viable link, please do not remove it. 80.192.242.187 20:55, 15 February 2007 (UTC) JemmyH.
It's the Sankey Canal, though you likely wont find many in St. Helens referring to anything on our side of the Earlestown border as being 'Sankey'. The majority of the canal falls in the Sankey Valley, but the majority of people in the local area will refer to the area within St. Helens as "The flash". The St. Helens canal is an entirely different beast, and I'd be surprised to hear anyone refer to "The flash" as such.-- Koncorde ( talk) 20:09, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, just to add to my article, JemmyH I can't find any definate law on the name, Sankey Canal or St Helens Canal. You have showed links stating that Warrington Council, etc call it "it's offical name" but I can show links from the other side of the argument
http://www.waterscape.com/canals-and-rivers/st-helens-canal-sankey-canal
http://www.discoverthemerseyforest.co.uk/Route.aspx?region=2&cat=Walking&refnum=MF070 (RC4282) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.195.90.92 ( talk) 02:17, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
I have edited and reworded the 'viaduct details' in the 'structures' section, included changes as follows:
I can only assume this un-referenced section is the work of fiction, and or, another structure which as been confused.
dhutch ( talk) 09:58, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Sankey Canal. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://archive.thisischeshire.co.uk/2004/11/18/140109.htmlWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 09:50, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
From what I can tell there is a single recurring IP user (Jemmy H) with their own POV push. If this is indeed the same user they are asked to cease perpetuating misinformation and utilise reliable sources not their opinion. [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6] Koncorde ( talk) 23:19, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I am from St.Helens and the canal is generally referred to here as either Sankey Canal or just "the canal". In fact, I don't think I've heard anyone here say "the St.Helens Canal" EVER. (Similarly, people from Runcorn don't say "Runcorn Bridge" (as most others do), just "the bridge"). However, as mentioned below, Warrington Borough Council has signs at Sankey Bridges that say "ST. HELENS CANAL". Halton Borough Council also has some information signs towards Spike Island that mention "ST. HELENS CANAL", the name which also appears on Ordnance Survey and other maps. I agree that there is a lot of anti-St.Helens bias in this discussion. The supposedly "misinformed locals" of St.Helens (which apparently is "a distant town"(!), rather than a neighbouring one) do not even say (in my experience) "St.Helens Canal". If for some reason it annoys you that people do use this (completely legitimate) name for the canal, I suggest you direct your ire towards, for one, Warrington Borough Council, who apparently like the name "ST. HELENS CANAL" so much that they even put it on signs next to the canal :). But please don't pollute Wikipedia with your biased, misinformed information.
I've removed "but only in St.Helens (the rest of the canal, away from St.Helens, has always been the Sankey Canal)" pending sources being cited. I have never lived in St Helens or elsewhere locally, and have often heard it refered to as the St Helens Canal. British Waterways refer to "St Helens Canal (Sankey Canal)". I've also removed the reference to "mainly by misinformed locals", as again no sources are cited, and this has the ring of a local quarrel which has no place here. StephenDawson 11:44, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Look here Stephen .... http://www.warrington.gov.uk/images/sankey_winwick_history_trail_tcm15-5312.pdf 80.192.242.187 16:43, 15 February 2007 (UTC) JemmyH
The Sankey Navigation (canal) was opened in 1757. It did not go to St.Helens. It went to a part of the Lancashire Coalfield which was being productively mined by a company called Richard Evans. St.Helens was only linked to the canal some eighteen years later by the St.Helens section. This section is the St,Helens canal. I don't know, but maybe, the residents of the Warrington areas of Sankey, Great Sankey etc. refer to the Sankey Canal as that is it's historic title and St.Helens, to them, is just a distant town. Probably? (this unsigned comment was added by 80.192.242.187.
Here is a couple of links for you to look at. One is by Warrington Borough Council. Both refer to Sankey Canal. Neither refer to St.Helens canal.
http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?txtkeys1=Sankey
http://www.warrington.gov.uk/images/sankey_winwick_history_trail_tcm15-5312.pdf
Warrington Borough Council has signs along the canal near Sankey Bridges which say "St.Helens Canal" (no mention of Sankey). These signs have been there for years. The same stretch is called St.Helens Canal on Ordnance Survey maps, on Google maps and on any other map I've looked it. To say that "Sankey Canal" is the official/proper name for the canal as a whole is simply untrue. It seems this article has attracted contributors (or perhaps one in particular) with a heavy anti-St.Helens bias. There's nothing unusual about the canal not having an "official" name or it being known by more than one name. Let's stick to the facts.
Just to let anyone know, who may be interested, that I have driven past the 'St.Helens Branch' of the Sankey Canal, tonight, and have seen a large sign, recently sited, which says, in block capitals, ............ 'SANKEY CANAL'. It looks to have been put there by ......... 'British Waterways'. The name 'St.Helens Canal' is purely a truism. Wikipedia should be containing fact, the OFFICIAL name is 'Sankey Canal'. 80.192.242.187 23:36, 16 January 2007 (UTC) JimmyH.
YOU are the 'illiterate' one, thinking YOU are an authority on something you know nothing about. The canal has signs along it's route saying 'The Sankey Canal', placed there by British Waterways. It is on record starting as the 'Sankey Navigation', changing to it's 'true' title of Canal when it was discovered that it wasn't a 'navigation' at all, but a 'true canal'. It is OFFICIALLY called the Sankey Canal. St.Helens canal is an 'unofficial' name, relating to the St.Helens Section, used only by those who know no better. Now then, 'Truism', as I thought, was something that had 'become' true, over a period of time, due to constant use. The same meaning seems to be thought by Regan123 (maybe he's illiterate too), as he has used it to describe the Wigan claims of 'Marks and Spencer, founded in Wigan' and the 'Worlds Biggest Steam Engine is in Wigan', both of which are believed by Wigan people to be true and are promoted as such by Wigan Council's 'History Shop'. Both are false, but are 'believed' to be true by constant useage and publicity, so have become a 'Truism'. But, of course, I might be wrong, I sometimes am!? I'll look it up. Thanks for pointing out my illiteracy, it is appreciated as I can now do something about it. 80.192.242.187 13:00, 30 January 2007 (UTC) JemmyH.
.... Often the word (truism) is used to disguise the fact that a proposition is really just a 'half-truth or an opinion', an 'axiom', especially in 'rhetoric'. 'Axiom: .. Unlike theorems, axioms are neither derived by principles of deduction, nor are they 'demonstrable by formal proofs'. Instead, an axiom is 'taken for granted as valid', as an 'assumption'. Rhetoric: ... the art or technique of persuasion through the use of oral language.
Taking this into consideration, the name 'St.Helens Canal' is 'taken for granted as valid', but is not 'demonstrable by formal proofs', as it is 'formally' named the 'Sankey Canal'. The name 'St.Helens Canal' is, clearly, a 'half-truth or an opinion' formulated by 'rhetoric' over a period of time. So, I conclude that to call the 'Sankey Canal' the 'St.Helens Canal' is a 'Truism'. And that's true that is! Yours Illiterately, 80.192.242.187 21:25, 30 January 2007 (UTC) JemmyH.
I suppose 'false information' and 'local rumour' HAS a place in THIS encyclopaedia, then?
Links which refer to the Sankey Canal using it's 'correct' and 'official' title .....
http://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?txtkeys1=Sankey
http://www.warrington.gov.uk/images/sankey_winwick_history_trail_tcm15-5312.pdf
80.192.242.187 16:46, 15 February 2007 (UTC) JemmyH.
Fnarf999, you are totally wrong there. I have said this ... The section of Canal from St.Helens, joining onto the Sankey Canal, was constructed some eighteen years AFTER the Sankey Canal started operating. That section of canal IS called the St.Helens canal (because it's in St.Helens). The St.Helens Canal JOINS the Sankey Canal (called that because it runs along the Sankey Valley, alongside the Sankey Brook). The St.Helens section was an 'addition', constructed for the benefit of St.Helens which was a growing town, and was connected to an existing canal system.
I have also provided viable links to the Sankey Viaduct articles discussion page. That article gives it's wrong location. When I provide the correct information , it is immediately removed.
Please make up your mind whether you want me to provide viable links to my contributions, or not. When I provide a viable link, please do not remove it. 80.192.242.187 20:55, 15 February 2007 (UTC) JemmyH.
It's the Sankey Canal, though you likely wont find many in St. Helens referring to anything on our side of the Earlestown border as being 'Sankey'. The majority of the canal falls in the Sankey Valley, but the majority of people in the local area will refer to the area within St. Helens as "The flash". The St. Helens canal is an entirely different beast, and I'd be surprised to hear anyone refer to "The flash" as such.-- Koncorde ( talk) 20:09, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, just to add to my article, JemmyH I can't find any definate law on the name, Sankey Canal or St Helens Canal. You have showed links stating that Warrington Council, etc call it "it's offical name" but I can show links from the other side of the argument
http://www.waterscape.com/canals-and-rivers/st-helens-canal-sankey-canal
http://www.discoverthemerseyforest.co.uk/Route.aspx?region=2&cat=Walking&refnum=MF070 (RC4282) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.195.90.92 ( talk) 02:17, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
I have edited and reworded the 'viaduct details' in the 'structures' section, included changes as follows:
I can only assume this un-referenced section is the work of fiction, and or, another structure which as been confused.
dhutch ( talk) 09:58, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Sankey Canal. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://archive.thisischeshire.co.uk/2004/11/18/140109.htmlWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 09:50, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
From what I can tell there is a single recurring IP user (Jemmy H) with their own POV push. If this is indeed the same user they are asked to cease perpetuating misinformation and utilise reliable sources not their opinion. [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6] Koncorde ( talk) 23:19, 12 October 2021 (UTC)