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Coincidentally, earlier today I was doing some googling with the intention of revising the article, since I am also under the impression that
Sanga may be a region in
Mali. I have an essay by
Marcel Griaule which speaks of a number of villages in Upper Sanga & lower Sanga, and he mentions tribes such as Arou and Dyon which speak Sanga, a variety of Dogon.
Alexander 00722:36, 26 February 2006 (UTC)reply
I have been there and am convinced that it it concerns a group of villages. This is confirmed in the Petit Fuité de Mali. According to another ref, Sékou Ogobara Dolo mentions at least the two Ogols being part of Sangha. I think that upper and lower Sangha refer to Ogol-du-Haut and Ogol-du-Bas. Another point: I think it is written mostly as Sangha and not Sanga. I don't know anything on the Sanga language. --
User:AAM |
Talk22:48, 26 February 2006 (UTC)reply
Griaule writes that Upper Sanga is Ogol Sanga-du-Haut and Lower Sanga is Ogol-du-Bas. But there are villages in these localities according to him; for instance, the village Go is "in the south-west of Lower Ogol".
Alexander 00722:53, 26 February 2006 (UTC)reply
I am not sure that I understand you: do you mean that there would be a village with the name Ogol Sanga-du-Haut? Maybe all four villages Sangha-du-Haut, Sangha-du-Bas, Ogol-du-Haut, Ogol-du-Bas exist, or are they just english translations? (An interesting point is then: would Wiki use an English translation whereas people in the region it concerns speak French as 2nd or 3rd language?) I only have the names of O-d-H and O-d-B as part of Sangha in two books. These names are used over there. A search with google shows that they all four exist... at least on the internet! I have no complete list of villages that would be part of Sangha in my books. I don't know about Go, looks as though it might be part of it. Banani is very close, would it be part of it as well?--
User:AAM |
Talk00:13, 27 February 2006 (UTC)reply
"Ogol Sanga-du-Haut" occurs in the text, and may be well be wrong; when I typed it above, I was about to place [sic], to indicate that it may be an error in the text I have, which is a complete/unabridged English translation by
Robert K. G. Temple of
Marcel Griaule's and
Germaine Dieterlen's Un système Soudanais de Sirius, 1950. I haven't been to
Sanga or
Mali in person yet, so I can only report what is written.
Alexander 00700:20, 27 February 2006 (UTC)reply
"The main investigation was carried out among the Dogon between 1946 and 1950, where the four major informants were:
"Innekouzou Dolo, a woman aged between sixty-five and seventy, ammayana 'priestess of Amma', and soothsayer, living in the Dozyou-Orey quarter of Ogol-du-Bas (Lower Ogol Sanga-du-Haut (Upper Sanga). Tribe: Arou. Language: Sanga."
Agree: this seems very logical. So this far we have only two of the thirteen villages for sure, that have a different name in the English translation compared to the French one that they use locally. --
User:AAM |
Talk08:40, 27 February 2006 (UTC)reply
Griaule: a note of caution
I think a note of caution is in order concerning the work of Griaule among the Dogon of Sangha. As I said on
Talk:Dogon people, "Marcel Griaule is the inevitable starting point, but later Dogon ethnographers have shown that he focused too strongly on uncovering a certain 'native philosophy' and that his informants were, well, 'creative' and 'not without monetary realism', as Van Beek (2004) puts it." —
mark✎08:41, 27 February 2006 (UTC)reply
I agree on this. I think we should try to obtain more recent work on the Dogon, and preferably not just interpretations of Griaules work. A fresh starting point could be 'La mère des masques' that is written in 2002 by Sékou Ogobara Dolo, a Dogon from Sangha that is chief of the tourist guides. Sékou Ogobara Dolo: La mère des masques. Un Dogon raconte. (2002)
Eds. SeuilISBN2-02-041133-4 --
User:AAM |
Talk08:53, 27 February 2006 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Africa, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Africa on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AfricaWikipedia:WikiProject AfricaTemplate:WikiProject AfricaAfrica articles
Coincidentally, earlier today I was doing some googling with the intention of revising the article, since I am also under the impression that
Sanga may be a region in
Mali. I have an essay by
Marcel Griaule which speaks of a number of villages in Upper Sanga & lower Sanga, and he mentions tribes such as Arou and Dyon which speak Sanga, a variety of Dogon.
Alexander 00722:36, 26 February 2006 (UTC)reply
I have been there and am convinced that it it concerns a group of villages. This is confirmed in the Petit Fuité de Mali. According to another ref, Sékou Ogobara Dolo mentions at least the two Ogols being part of Sangha. I think that upper and lower Sangha refer to Ogol-du-Haut and Ogol-du-Bas. Another point: I think it is written mostly as Sangha and not Sanga. I don't know anything on the Sanga language. --
User:AAM |
Talk22:48, 26 February 2006 (UTC)reply
Griaule writes that Upper Sanga is Ogol Sanga-du-Haut and Lower Sanga is Ogol-du-Bas. But there are villages in these localities according to him; for instance, the village Go is "in the south-west of Lower Ogol".
Alexander 00722:53, 26 February 2006 (UTC)reply
I am not sure that I understand you: do you mean that there would be a village with the name Ogol Sanga-du-Haut? Maybe all four villages Sangha-du-Haut, Sangha-du-Bas, Ogol-du-Haut, Ogol-du-Bas exist, or are they just english translations? (An interesting point is then: would Wiki use an English translation whereas people in the region it concerns speak French as 2nd or 3rd language?) I only have the names of O-d-H and O-d-B as part of Sangha in two books. These names are used over there. A search with google shows that they all four exist... at least on the internet! I have no complete list of villages that would be part of Sangha in my books. I don't know about Go, looks as though it might be part of it. Banani is very close, would it be part of it as well?--
User:AAM |
Talk00:13, 27 February 2006 (UTC)reply
"Ogol Sanga-du-Haut" occurs in the text, and may be well be wrong; when I typed it above, I was about to place [sic], to indicate that it may be an error in the text I have, which is a complete/unabridged English translation by
Robert K. G. Temple of
Marcel Griaule's and
Germaine Dieterlen's Un système Soudanais de Sirius, 1950. I haven't been to
Sanga or
Mali in person yet, so I can only report what is written.
Alexander 00700:20, 27 February 2006 (UTC)reply
"The main investigation was carried out among the Dogon between 1946 and 1950, where the four major informants were:
"Innekouzou Dolo, a woman aged between sixty-five and seventy, ammayana 'priestess of Amma', and soothsayer, living in the Dozyou-Orey quarter of Ogol-du-Bas (Lower Ogol Sanga-du-Haut (Upper Sanga). Tribe: Arou. Language: Sanga."
Agree: this seems very logical. So this far we have only two of the thirteen villages for sure, that have a different name in the English translation compared to the French one that they use locally. --
User:AAM |
Talk08:40, 27 February 2006 (UTC)reply
Griaule: a note of caution
I think a note of caution is in order concerning the work of Griaule among the Dogon of Sangha. As I said on
Talk:Dogon people, "Marcel Griaule is the inevitable starting point, but later Dogon ethnographers have shown that he focused too strongly on uncovering a certain 'native philosophy' and that his informants were, well, 'creative' and 'not without monetary realism', as Van Beek (2004) puts it." —
mark✎08:41, 27 February 2006 (UTC)reply
I agree on this. I think we should try to obtain more recent work on the Dogon, and preferably not just interpretations of Griaules work. A fresh starting point could be 'La mère des masques' that is written in 2002 by Sékou Ogobara Dolo, a Dogon from Sangha that is chief of the tourist guides. Sékou Ogobara Dolo: La mère des masques. Un Dogon raconte. (2002)
Eds. SeuilISBN2-02-041133-4 --
User:AAM |
Talk08:53, 27 February 2006 (UTC)reply