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7 December 2005 17:00 (PST) Here we go again. The editor Griot has a tendency to make unsupported claims on Wiki articles, see Matt Gonzalez for example. The editor has taken the liberty to re-write Wiki articles about Gonzalez and the Green Party in a negative light and now seeks to do the same to the SF Bay Guardian likely because they supported his candidacy for mayor. According to this editor, positive recognition must be watered down in order to be neutral; a common reductive fallacy known as the Middle Ground fallacy. The record will show an ongoing effort by this editor to revise Wiki articles and omit any statements the editor doesn't like about her or his political opponents, while failing to argue on merit. In my view, the ability to edit carries a responsibility to satsify a reasonable burden of proof that goes beyond the vanity of personal belief and editors should yield when a view isn't supported or without making an attempt to make a case. The POV template should be removed as Griot's personal opinion doesn't warrant the action. Rasax 01:28, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
The part at the end about the paper turning into a shopper isn't correct, as a shopper is quite a different kind of publication. I'm removing that bit. 11/15/2005
Editing changes made to clean up some repetition, subjectivity, and to clarify public power as advocated by the SFBG. -- rasax ~16:00, 18 November 2005.
re: "Hypocritically, some believe, because of its anti-union stance (see below), the Guardian often stakes out progressive positions on its editorial pages, advocating populist positions to make government more transparent and accountable to the public."
re: "In spite of its editorial advocacy for the public interest and social justice, the Bay Guardian has a record of being anti-union and paying its staffers less-than-living wages[5]."
6 December 2005 15:00 (PST) Hyperbolic spin put back into proportionality. "The paper professes" requires supporting proof, whereas "the paper remains..." is a conclusion that follows the previous Wiki article. New claims and evidence are best inserted into the central text of an article, not its conclusion. Rasax 23:11, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
This is not an objective article about the Bay Guardian. It's a promotion piece and even contradicts itself. Is the Guardian for social justice, as the article claims, although it mistreats its own workers? Let's remember that people come to encyclopedias for objective opinions. The reputation of the wikipedia is demeaned when someone uses an article to gush about their favorite cause, person, or newspaper.
Any questions? Rasax 22:10, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
ONe question: Do you work for the Bay Guardian?
No. Rasax 20:47, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
YOUR POINT?
Palnu: Please feel free to contribute. Improving the article shouldn't hinge on who signs your paycheck in my opinion. I'd agree there could be a lot more useful information included about the paper and will leave it up to future editors to mention. It seems I cannot freely make contributions without the other editor splitting hairs over every word, and it has happened on another wiki article with this same individual. It's unfortunate you've gotten two sides of a fence from harassment when my contributions aren't intended to make the SFBG anything more or less than what it is - a local, community paper with progressive editorials. Because of this pattern with the other editor, I felt it's better to leave future fixes up to other editors. What's there can be used as a starting point, or not. If this same individual harasses other editors, it will be clear to any mods if the need to intervene occurs. Best of luck. Cheers Rasax 20:47, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
This is a terrible article. It says almost nothing about the SFBG, it uses slanted language to describe the paper, and it spends more time discussing labor issues than the paper itself. There's nothing about the history, and such important issues as its feud with the Weekly and occasionally, the Chronicle. I personally happen to agree that the Guardian is a muckracking paper with an agenda, but I really don't think it's the point of Wikipedia to repeat opinions like that, particularly not without some backup. The labor section is okay for what it is, only that two paragraphs about labor is about right for a paper with a two page article, not such a short stub. I'm going to spend a few minutes cleaning up the tone but it would be great if someone could spend the time to expand the article. The SF Weekly article needs help too. Wikidemo 08:52, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
Image:Guardianlogo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 02:30, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Per BLP, and per adequate sourcing requirements, i removed the section on anti union activities. if someone wants to find a mainstream source for this information, or even with sources from the paper and from the union involved, i have no problem. article referenced is an online, edited reposting of an article originally published in Processed World magazine, a very cool independent mag but NOT a valid source for a WP article about the guardian. im surprised no one else has taken this action before, considering the discussion here. we dont have to decide whos right or wrong, just whether we have adequate sourcing to include controversial (or truly ANY) material in WP. i have no doubt a better article could be written that lays out the guardians issues, hypocracies, etc, as any organization of its size and nature would have. im not gonna do it, and until someone can research it properly, this article will unfortunately be less sexy. Mercurywoodrose ( talk) 22:20, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
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This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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7 December 2005 17:00 (PST) Here we go again. The editor Griot has a tendency to make unsupported claims on Wiki articles, see Matt Gonzalez for example. The editor has taken the liberty to re-write Wiki articles about Gonzalez and the Green Party in a negative light and now seeks to do the same to the SF Bay Guardian likely because they supported his candidacy for mayor. According to this editor, positive recognition must be watered down in order to be neutral; a common reductive fallacy known as the Middle Ground fallacy. The record will show an ongoing effort by this editor to revise Wiki articles and omit any statements the editor doesn't like about her or his political opponents, while failing to argue on merit. In my view, the ability to edit carries a responsibility to satsify a reasonable burden of proof that goes beyond the vanity of personal belief and editors should yield when a view isn't supported or without making an attempt to make a case. The POV template should be removed as Griot's personal opinion doesn't warrant the action. Rasax 01:28, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
The part at the end about the paper turning into a shopper isn't correct, as a shopper is quite a different kind of publication. I'm removing that bit. 11/15/2005
Editing changes made to clean up some repetition, subjectivity, and to clarify public power as advocated by the SFBG. -- rasax ~16:00, 18 November 2005.
re: "Hypocritically, some believe, because of its anti-union stance (see below), the Guardian often stakes out progressive positions on its editorial pages, advocating populist positions to make government more transparent and accountable to the public."
re: "In spite of its editorial advocacy for the public interest and social justice, the Bay Guardian has a record of being anti-union and paying its staffers less-than-living wages[5]."
6 December 2005 15:00 (PST) Hyperbolic spin put back into proportionality. "The paper professes" requires supporting proof, whereas "the paper remains..." is a conclusion that follows the previous Wiki article. New claims and evidence are best inserted into the central text of an article, not its conclusion. Rasax 23:11, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
This is not an objective article about the Bay Guardian. It's a promotion piece and even contradicts itself. Is the Guardian for social justice, as the article claims, although it mistreats its own workers? Let's remember that people come to encyclopedias for objective opinions. The reputation of the wikipedia is demeaned when someone uses an article to gush about their favorite cause, person, or newspaper.
Any questions? Rasax 22:10, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
ONe question: Do you work for the Bay Guardian?
No. Rasax 20:47, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
YOUR POINT?
Palnu: Please feel free to contribute. Improving the article shouldn't hinge on who signs your paycheck in my opinion. I'd agree there could be a lot more useful information included about the paper and will leave it up to future editors to mention. It seems I cannot freely make contributions without the other editor splitting hairs over every word, and it has happened on another wiki article with this same individual. It's unfortunate you've gotten two sides of a fence from harassment when my contributions aren't intended to make the SFBG anything more or less than what it is - a local, community paper with progressive editorials. Because of this pattern with the other editor, I felt it's better to leave future fixes up to other editors. What's there can be used as a starting point, or not. If this same individual harasses other editors, it will be clear to any mods if the need to intervene occurs. Best of luck. Cheers Rasax 20:47, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
This is a terrible article. It says almost nothing about the SFBG, it uses slanted language to describe the paper, and it spends more time discussing labor issues than the paper itself. There's nothing about the history, and such important issues as its feud with the Weekly and occasionally, the Chronicle. I personally happen to agree that the Guardian is a muckracking paper with an agenda, but I really don't think it's the point of Wikipedia to repeat opinions like that, particularly not without some backup. The labor section is okay for what it is, only that two paragraphs about labor is about right for a paper with a two page article, not such a short stub. I'm going to spend a few minutes cleaning up the tone but it would be great if someone could spend the time to expand the article. The SF Weekly article needs help too. Wikidemo 08:52, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
Image:Guardianlogo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 02:30, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Per BLP, and per adequate sourcing requirements, i removed the section on anti union activities. if someone wants to find a mainstream source for this information, or even with sources from the paper and from the union involved, i have no problem. article referenced is an online, edited reposting of an article originally published in Processed World magazine, a very cool independent mag but NOT a valid source for a WP article about the guardian. im surprised no one else has taken this action before, considering the discussion here. we dont have to decide whos right or wrong, just whether we have adequate sourcing to include controversial (or truly ANY) material in WP. i have no doubt a better article could be written that lays out the guardians issues, hypocracies, etc, as any organization of its size and nature would have. im not gonna do it, and until someone can research it properly, this article will unfortunately be less sexy. Mercurywoodrose ( talk) 22:20, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on San Francisco Bay Guardian. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 12:27, 3 November 2017 (UTC)