This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
he was a sailor-- 24.188.57.222 ( talk) 14:51, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Maybe add some info about how he founded Acadia? -- 142.166.97.10 17:31, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Firstly, it is stated that, "No period portrait of Champlain exists." Soon thereafter is a second picture, captioned with "No authentic portrait of Champlain exists." Seems kind of redundant and unprofessional to me... Sexually, under the Early Travels subsection, "he lived before the end of the XVI^th century." Is there any particular reason that this is stated in Roman numerals? It's a bit inconsistent with the rest of the article, so far's I can find, and I'm not familiar with any standards of writing in which this would be needed... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.127.76.3 ( talk) 17:45, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Someone just vandalized the page
AxyJo 21:07, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
AxyJothis was one of the forent contryes
The overall content of the article is good, and the references at the bottom are nicely laid out. However, the article is largely just body with no clear introduction, it needs to be divided into some subjects. Ben Babcock 21:53, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Thanks to Woohookitty for wikifying it. The sections make the page easier to read, and make it easier to find specific information about Champlain. Ben Babcock 23:42, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Samuel de Champlain is known as the Father of New France. I think this should be bolded in the lead section. Phoenix2 16:03, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
It would make sense. Champlain was French and is very well known by French-speaking people from France or from Quebec. Afterall he was the Father of New France. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.114.55.156 ( talk) 00:43, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
I heard that Louis Aubert (I don't know the spelling) or someone from his family travelled with Champlain to Quebec. I just want to verify if this is true with someone. Rijaman 01:30, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Loudogood ( talk) 05:22, 6 September 2009 (UTC)Our first Dirty Harry? Imagine the scene when his Montagmaos allies spread to right and left, leaving him alone facing the Mohawks, what would be the 17th cent feeling, and in old French, of "go ahead, make my day?" Would this have been a thought of his? I am serious. Loudogood ( talk) 05:22, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
There exists no documentation for Champlain's date of birth. Circumstantial evidence, however, indicates that he was born about 1580, not 1567 or 1570, as stated in the literature before 1978. Thus his achievements were those of a younger man than has been suggested in the literature, including the Dictionary of Canadian Biography.
See:
Brouage was a very catholic city in a protestant area. Thus, it makes no sense to say Champlain was a protestant for this reason.
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/jdtr/brouage.htm
Brouage, tête de pont contre les protestants de La Rochelle (1569)
Richelieu (very catholic himself) promoting Brouage against La Rochelle
http://www.brouage.org/histoire.html
and so many more links proving that Brouage was a catholic town... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.252.80.95 ( talk) 19:36, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
"His travels have had the most lasting importance to World History." This last sentence in the intro paragraph makes little sense (especially if taken literally). Perhaps it was written by someone without English as their first language. Anyhow, I have deleted it. -- Iacobus 01:14, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
If, as the article says, there are no authentic portraits of Champlain, why does it feature a picture which is ostensibly of him?
-- Tex 19:18, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
4th desember 1612(UTC)
I recall glancing through a newspaper describing the famous image of Champlain as being some cardinal of the same period, picked as a more impressive visual and retitled by a history textbook. Anyone else hear of this? 174.91.223.140 ( talk) 04:52, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Ha! I knew that I wasn't hallucinating. Please, someone wikiliterate, deal with this. http://www.canadiana.org/hbc/_popups/PAMc006643_e.htm 174.91.223.140 ( talk) 04:58, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
I did add also that there is Champlain College in Burlington, Vermont as part of his legacy. Illuminati 10:59, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure how this works but I wanted to add that Champlain also has a memorial statue in Saint John, NB, Canada in Queen Square that commemorates his discovery of the Saint John river. He named the river Saint Jean (Saint John in English) because he discovered it on Saint Jean Baptist day in 1604 (I think) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pudge ass ( talk • contribs) 22:21, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
There is also a memorial statue in Champlain, NY, alongside the Catholic Church. Traneride ( talk) 18:26, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
most likely he was born in the year 1570. In Brough, France. His dad and uncle are sea captians
Very poor comment here above. His birth town is not even spelled right. Brouage!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.114.55.156 ( talk) 01:13, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
Samuel did have three adopted girls,in english thier names are Harmony, freedom, and charity and his wife was 12 years old when they got married. He left all of them on one return to france and never saw them again, but that was not mentioned. fuyfghkjgh —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.22.41.88 ( talk) 20:50, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
most likely he was born in the year 1570. In Brough, France. His dad and uncle are sea captions —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.170.198.80 ( talk) 15:28, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
... or does this timeline not make sense? 'On May 22, 1616, he left the Huron country and was back in Quebec on July 11 before heading back to France on July 2.' Grandma Roses ( talk) 20:55, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
how the funbags could he have been in quebec on july 11 and then return to france on july 2? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.108.185.170 ( talk) 18:30, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Honours: Would someone like to add "Champlain Mountain" in Acadia National Park? Champlain named the island where the mountain sits... there is also a Sieur de Monts 'spring' in the park.... thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.50.153.41 ( talk) 17:04, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
User 66.36.*.* has asserted that "Most historians now agree" that 1580 is his most likely year of birth, and cites Litalien, pages 16ff. The English translation of Litalien does not support this, and appears to be similar in content to the French. Some of the contributors to Litalien have this to say about Champlain's year of birth:
I will add data from a table Fischer presents (p. 573):
Fischer is very detailed in his disagreement with Liebel's conclusion; his main complaint is Liebel's assumption that Pont-Gravé must be 20 years older than Champlain, and that a 1580 birth would make Champlain 14 in 1594 when he is known to be in military service, and is already referred to with the particule de noblesse (de) in documents from the war that date to 1595.
You noted that in Trudel's entry on Champlain in the French Dictionary of Canadian Biography he supported 1580 as a birth year. Trudel wrote:
in English:
This does not sound like an strong endorsement of 1580; in fact, I read it as more supportive of 1570.
This does not appear to me to be "most historians" (or even "most modern historians"). Unless there are many more historians to consider, I think the language on his birth year should be even less certain than it currently is. Something like this:
Feel free to quote more specifically from Litalien (or other sources) if I've missed something. Magic ♪piano 16:38, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
Someone wrote into the article that: "On May 7 1620,
Louis XIII named him administrator of New France, a post he served for the rest of his life."
It is FALSE. Champlain's boss never was directly the king, but a noble named by the king, the first being
Pierre Dugua, Sieur de Mons, the last being
Cardinal Richelieu. What happened in 1619: the Merchants wanted
François Gravé Du Pont to be the administrator of Quebec instead of Champlain. The king told Champlain's boss not to do that. So, Champlain came in Quebec (with his wife) in 1620 and showed this "commission" approved by the king. —
66.36.146.247 (
talk)
07:18, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
It is important here that:
- 66.36.146.247 ( talk) 10:49, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
To the note referencing to Trudel and appended to the sentence written by this Editor IV:
I added details and explicit citation of Trudel, because it must be very clear that Champlain was not viceroy neither governor of New France, even if (and why) the king wrote to him ... - 66.36.156.59 ( talk) 04:58, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
The same day, the same user who added confusing details in the presentation, a so called "Gold starized Veteran Editor IV", removed from the first paragraph (at 16:26, 11 December 2009) what is the most important fact about Champlain (and the note included):
See
Wikipedia:Selected_anniversaries/July_3:
From now, according to this veteran editor, this action of Champlain (and its exact date) should no more be written in the first paragraph of the Champlain article presentation ?? - 66.36.156.89 ( talk) 17:26, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
Champlain was a courages man. Which I hate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.236.167.105 ( talk) 00:02, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
the answer is in 1626 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.193.26.55 ( talk) 12:44, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
This section of the article obviously gives a sense of how revered a figure Champlain was in the history of northeastern North America. It had a "refimprove" tag on it, which I've removed. Most of the named places have articles about them, so they are verifiable by clicking the link. The question in my mind is whether some of them can actually be called memorials. I can see that naming a lake or a bridge after someone is a memorial; statues, schools, obviously. But commercial entities such as hotels? I'm not sure. I suppose if it is a famous hotel like the Chateau Champlain, we shouldn't quibble. One could argue that the name was chosen because of Champlain's fame. Thoughts? Sunray ( talk) 14:12, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
he was a sailor-- 24.188.57.222 ( talk) 14:51, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
Maybe add some info about how he founded Acadia? -- 142.166.97.10 17:31, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Firstly, it is stated that, "No period portrait of Champlain exists." Soon thereafter is a second picture, captioned with "No authentic portrait of Champlain exists." Seems kind of redundant and unprofessional to me... Sexually, under the Early Travels subsection, "he lived before the end of the XVI^th century." Is there any particular reason that this is stated in Roman numerals? It's a bit inconsistent with the rest of the article, so far's I can find, and I'm not familiar with any standards of writing in which this would be needed... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.127.76.3 ( talk) 17:45, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
Someone just vandalized the page
AxyJo 21:07, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
AxyJothis was one of the forent contryes
The overall content of the article is good, and the references at the bottom are nicely laid out. However, the article is largely just body with no clear introduction, it needs to be divided into some subjects. Ben Babcock 21:53, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Thanks to Woohookitty for wikifying it. The sections make the page easier to read, and make it easier to find specific information about Champlain. Ben Babcock 23:42, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Samuel de Champlain is known as the Father of New France. I think this should be bolded in the lead section. Phoenix2 16:03, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
It would make sense. Champlain was French and is very well known by French-speaking people from France or from Quebec. Afterall he was the Father of New France. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.114.55.156 ( talk) 00:43, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
I heard that Louis Aubert (I don't know the spelling) or someone from his family travelled with Champlain to Quebec. I just want to verify if this is true with someone. Rijaman 01:30, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Loudogood ( talk) 05:22, 6 September 2009 (UTC)Our first Dirty Harry? Imagine the scene when his Montagmaos allies spread to right and left, leaving him alone facing the Mohawks, what would be the 17th cent feeling, and in old French, of "go ahead, make my day?" Would this have been a thought of his? I am serious. Loudogood ( talk) 05:22, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
There exists no documentation for Champlain's date of birth. Circumstantial evidence, however, indicates that he was born about 1580, not 1567 or 1570, as stated in the literature before 1978. Thus his achievements were those of a younger man than has been suggested in the literature, including the Dictionary of Canadian Biography.
See:
Brouage was a very catholic city in a protestant area. Thus, it makes no sense to say Champlain was a protestant for this reason.
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/jdtr/brouage.htm
Brouage, tête de pont contre les protestants de La Rochelle (1569)
Richelieu (very catholic himself) promoting Brouage against La Rochelle
http://www.brouage.org/histoire.html
and so many more links proving that Brouage was a catholic town... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.252.80.95 ( talk) 19:36, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
"His travels have had the most lasting importance to World History." This last sentence in the intro paragraph makes little sense (especially if taken literally). Perhaps it was written by someone without English as their first language. Anyhow, I have deleted it. -- Iacobus 01:14, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
If, as the article says, there are no authentic portraits of Champlain, why does it feature a picture which is ostensibly of him?
-- Tex 19:18, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
4th desember 1612(UTC)
I recall glancing through a newspaper describing the famous image of Champlain as being some cardinal of the same period, picked as a more impressive visual and retitled by a history textbook. Anyone else hear of this? 174.91.223.140 ( talk) 04:52, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Ha! I knew that I wasn't hallucinating. Please, someone wikiliterate, deal with this. http://www.canadiana.org/hbc/_popups/PAMc006643_e.htm 174.91.223.140 ( talk) 04:58, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
I did add also that there is Champlain College in Burlington, Vermont as part of his legacy. Illuminati 10:59, 3 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure how this works but I wanted to add that Champlain also has a memorial statue in Saint John, NB, Canada in Queen Square that commemorates his discovery of the Saint John river. He named the river Saint Jean (Saint John in English) because he discovered it on Saint Jean Baptist day in 1604 (I think) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pudge ass ( talk • contribs) 22:21, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
There is also a memorial statue in Champlain, NY, alongside the Catholic Church. Traneride ( talk) 18:26, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
most likely he was born in the year 1570. In Brough, France. His dad and uncle are sea captians
Very poor comment here above. His birth town is not even spelled right. Brouage!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.114.55.156 ( talk) 01:13, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
Samuel did have three adopted girls,in english thier names are Harmony, freedom, and charity and his wife was 12 years old when they got married. He left all of them on one return to france and never saw them again, but that was not mentioned. fuyfghkjgh —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.22.41.88 ( talk) 20:50, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
most likely he was born in the year 1570. In Brough, France. His dad and uncle are sea captions —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.170.198.80 ( talk) 15:28, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
... or does this timeline not make sense? 'On May 22, 1616, he left the Huron country and was back in Quebec on July 11 before heading back to France on July 2.' Grandma Roses ( talk) 20:55, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
how the funbags could he have been in quebec on july 11 and then return to france on july 2? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.108.185.170 ( talk) 18:30, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
Honours: Would someone like to add "Champlain Mountain" in Acadia National Park? Champlain named the island where the mountain sits... there is also a Sieur de Monts 'spring' in the park.... thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.50.153.41 ( talk) 17:04, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
User 66.36.*.* has asserted that "Most historians now agree" that 1580 is his most likely year of birth, and cites Litalien, pages 16ff. The English translation of Litalien does not support this, and appears to be similar in content to the French. Some of the contributors to Litalien have this to say about Champlain's year of birth:
I will add data from a table Fischer presents (p. 573):
Fischer is very detailed in his disagreement with Liebel's conclusion; his main complaint is Liebel's assumption that Pont-Gravé must be 20 years older than Champlain, and that a 1580 birth would make Champlain 14 in 1594 when he is known to be in military service, and is already referred to with the particule de noblesse (de) in documents from the war that date to 1595.
You noted that in Trudel's entry on Champlain in the French Dictionary of Canadian Biography he supported 1580 as a birth year. Trudel wrote:
in English:
This does not sound like an strong endorsement of 1580; in fact, I read it as more supportive of 1570.
This does not appear to me to be "most historians" (or even "most modern historians"). Unless there are many more historians to consider, I think the language on his birth year should be even less certain than it currently is. Something like this:
Feel free to quote more specifically from Litalien (or other sources) if I've missed something. Magic ♪piano 16:38, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
Someone wrote into the article that: "On May 7 1620,
Louis XIII named him administrator of New France, a post he served for the rest of his life."
It is FALSE. Champlain's boss never was directly the king, but a noble named by the king, the first being
Pierre Dugua, Sieur de Mons, the last being
Cardinal Richelieu. What happened in 1619: the Merchants wanted
François Gravé Du Pont to be the administrator of Quebec instead of Champlain. The king told Champlain's boss not to do that. So, Champlain came in Quebec (with his wife) in 1620 and showed this "commission" approved by the king. —
66.36.146.247 (
talk)
07:18, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
It is important here that:
- 66.36.146.247 ( talk) 10:49, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
To the note referencing to Trudel and appended to the sentence written by this Editor IV:
I added details and explicit citation of Trudel, because it must be very clear that Champlain was not viceroy neither governor of New France, even if (and why) the king wrote to him ... - 66.36.156.59 ( talk) 04:58, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
The same day, the same user who added confusing details in the presentation, a so called "Gold starized Veteran Editor IV", removed from the first paragraph (at 16:26, 11 December 2009) what is the most important fact about Champlain (and the note included):
See
Wikipedia:Selected_anniversaries/July_3:
From now, according to this veteran editor, this action of Champlain (and its exact date) should no more be written in the first paragraph of the Champlain article presentation ?? - 66.36.156.89 ( talk) 17:26, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
Champlain was a courages man. Which I hate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.236.167.105 ( talk) 00:02, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
the answer is in 1626 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.193.26.55 ( talk) 12:44, 15 April 2010 (UTC)
This section of the article obviously gives a sense of how revered a figure Champlain was in the history of northeastern North America. It had a "refimprove" tag on it, which I've removed. Most of the named places have articles about them, so they are verifiable by clicking the link. The question in my mind is whether some of them can actually be called memorials. I can see that naming a lake or a bridge after someone is a memorial; statues, schools, obviously. But commercial entities such as hotels? I'm not sure. I suppose if it is a famous hotel like the Chateau Champlain, we shouldn't quibble. One could argue that the name was chosen because of Champlain's fame. Thoughts? Sunray ( talk) 14:12, 21 July 2010 (UTC)