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No, he isn't. He's a descendant of an earlier (and, so it is said, much nobler) dynasty that disappeared from the throne of Ankh centuries before the days of Lorenzo the Kind. (See Ankh-Morpork#History.) -- Paul A 02:25, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)
While that's certainly more narratively satisfying, there's no actual evidence either way (the dates on D'Eath's pictures don't help, because we don't know what dating system he's using). In the absence of such I agree, leave it out. Daibhid C 14.50 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)
In the article the writer says "He and Sybil have one small son, Sam Jr, born 25th May 1990."
I am not sure this is accurate since the Discworld uses its own calendar. Also, it is the wrong date in our calendar since the book Night Watch, where we read Sam's son is born, was published 2002.
How about a list of books Vimes is in? Some of the other Pratchett characters have these on their Wiki entries.
"On the other hand, certain details and events point to it having been Vimes all along; also, Lu-Tze is not above manipulating people and possibly told a lie.)" - this mish-mash has evolved from nothing, and certainly has no place here. Going, going... :: Didactylos 19:17, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
"Sam Vimes rage has become a legend in Ankh-Morpork even when he has never been truly angry, the single thing that keeps everyone in the city in line is the fact that "Vimes will go spare"." - this is the view of Sergeant Colon, and is not universal. The whole "rage" section could benefit from a rewrite. :: Didactylos 19:22, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm not entirely sure this is accurate, since he only drinks in the first two books he's in (in the rest, he has his cigars). -- Yar Kramer 21:24, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
At school he was once blackboard monitor for a whole term (An honour his mother paid for, unknown to him at the time).
I have always read the part about Vimes wondering where his mother got the money from as, not knowing how she afforded sending him to school, not paying for him to be Blackboard monitor, is there another reference I am miss-remembering? Gonzo 09:40, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
An article of this length is fairly conspicuously missing a picture. A cropping of this [1] would be my first thought, though I expect it's problematic legally.
"In this book Vimes bears a passing resemblance to actor Pete Postlethwaite. Pratchett has before commented that this is who he has always perceived Vimes to look like, rather than the Paul Kidby 'Clint Eastwood' representation."
Tada!-- Agent Aquamarine 06:05, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Do we need someone to scan the image of Sam Vimes from the Where's My Cow book, then? -- D'Argent 18:39, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Judge Dredd has the nickname "Old Stoneyface", whereas Sam Vimes, and his ancestor "Suffer-Not-Injustice Vimes", have the nickname "Old Stoneface". I think it's possible that Judge Dredd is an inspiration for Vimes and this isn't a coincidence, so Vimes' nickname references Dredd's. Is this worth putting in the Wiki article? -- D'Argent 18:39, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
While I applaud the work done by all of you on this article - it's really very well done - I hate to say it but this entire section (Character) smacks of WP:Original_Research. WP policy is that every statement must be attributable to a reputable source - i.e. our own analysis and interpretation has no place here. This section needs to be footnoted with sources for the material or it needs to go.-- Lepeu1999 17:36, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
To jump in here, even though the text makes reference to the book the examples were taken from, they still need to be footnoted - at least with the book information if not the specific page numbers.-- Lepeu1999 19:14, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
I agree: the article is well written and manages to convey a good description of Vimes for both fans of TP and complete strangers. However, footnotes are still necessary, even if they refer to a book. The Nouv ( talk) 14:53, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Some of the things removed are actually direct quotes or paraphrasing from the books don't want to just revert but labelling it all as 'not a neutral point of view' is inaccurate if its Vimes POV -- Nate 09:08, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm not too clear on the rules for citations, so I'll look into them before making any changes, but this page is full of the tags. I don't know if there've been many third-party, notable works on Discworld characters, so I'm guessing that the only sources available are the books themselves.
Just how much needs to be cited, though? This block, for example:
Vimes is a very conflicted character.[citation needed] An incorruptible idealist with deep beliefs in justice and an abiding love of his city, he is also a committed cynic whose knowledge of human nature constantly reminds him how far off those ideals are.[citation needed] A member of the upper classes, he still has an innate dislike of hereditary wealth and a horror of social inequality.[citation needed]
Some of it can really only be seen through multiple interactions, but is undeniably there. I guess there's a fine line to walk between what's written and how we interpret it - with all interpretations being considered original research - but looking at all the tags, it's tempting just to stick the list of books in the references section and sweep the tags away. Raistlin11325 03:45, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
I take issue with this line, Lorenzo the Kind, the last king of the city, a sadistic torturer described as very fond of children. . The article links the 'very fond of children' part to the article on pedophilia. My personal reading of this line was an allusion to Adolf Hitlers well known fondness of children contrasting with his reputation as the most evil man who ever lived. Does anyone agree? Can we have a consensus? - Doktor Waterhouse 13:55, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
"Because my ancestor killed a-" He (i.e. Vimes) paused. "No, it wasn't even an execution," he said. "You execute a human being. You slaughter an animal." "He was the king," said Dragon mildly. "Oh, yes. And it turned out that down in the dungeons he had machines for-" "Commander," said the vampire, holding up his hands, "I feel you don't understand me. Whatever else he was, he was the king." (...) "Well someone had to do it. Some monsters should not walk under the living sky."
'He, er, doesn't appear much in the history books,' said Vimes. 'Sometimes there has to be a civil war, and sometimes, afterwards, it's best to pretend something didn't happen. Sometimes people have to do a job, and then they have to be forgotten. He wielded the axe, you know. No-one else'd do it. It was a king's neck, after all. Kings are,' he spat the word, 'special. Even after they'd seen the . . . private rooms, and cleaned up the . . . bits. Even then. No-one'd clean up the world. But he took the axe and cursed them all and did it.' 'What king was it?' said Carrot. 'Lorenzo the Kind,' said Vimes, distantly. 'I've seen his picture in the palace museum,' said Carrot. A fat old man. Surrounded by lots of children.' 'Oh yes,' said Vimes, carefully. 'He was very fond of children.'
This is the quote I was thinking of, definite undertones implying paedophilia. It's also worth considering the two are not mutauly exclusive, this is fictions elements could come from both. -- Nate1481( t/ c) 15:28, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Please remind me, at the end of Thud does Vetinari hint at grooming Vimes as his successor? If so, should this be mentioned in either or both their entries?-- Tricksterson ( talk) 18:28, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
The last paragraph of the background is absolute garbage writing. It reads like a couple of fanboys arguing over a Star Trek episode. I would suggest dropping it altogether, or replacing it with "The chronology given in Night Watch places Vimes' age at 46 for this novel." and dropping the rationalization altogether. Wcudmore ( talk) 21:44, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
It is stated that Terry Pratchett said that "Morpork books are becoming almost impossible to write without making them watch books"(parap). This really needs citation as the last four main books: Going Postal, Thud, Making Money & Unseen Academicals have all been set in Ankh-Morpork with the exception being the Watch book - Thud, which was partially set outside. If true, he's done very well (although this does not surprise). Where is WikiResearch? ( talk) 13:08, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
Many words in the intro are internal links, more than I think is strictly necessary (what are these things even called?). The article about 'Terrier' describes a kind of dog, not its use in English language as 'tool'. Do we need a separate link that discusses the exact definition of what a wife is? More to the points: most of those links are thrown about, even though they do not bear relevance to the article (for example, 'wife' may be linked internally in an article about marriage, but not when the word is used in its normal sense). They are really just used as if they link to a dictionary, which wikipedia is not. Anyone agrees? 92.109.161.68 ( talk) 21:46, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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Removed from the article:
No, he isn't. He's a descendant of an earlier (and, so it is said, much nobler) dynasty that disappeared from the throne of Ankh centuries before the days of Lorenzo the Kind. (See Ankh-Morpork#History.) -- Paul A 02:25, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)
While that's certainly more narratively satisfying, there's no actual evidence either way (the dates on D'Eath's pictures don't help, because we don't know what dating system he's using). In the absence of such I agree, leave it out. Daibhid C 14.50 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)
In the article the writer says "He and Sybil have one small son, Sam Jr, born 25th May 1990."
I am not sure this is accurate since the Discworld uses its own calendar. Also, it is the wrong date in our calendar since the book Night Watch, where we read Sam's son is born, was published 2002.
How about a list of books Vimes is in? Some of the other Pratchett characters have these on their Wiki entries.
"On the other hand, certain details and events point to it having been Vimes all along; also, Lu-Tze is not above manipulating people and possibly told a lie.)" - this mish-mash has evolved from nothing, and certainly has no place here. Going, going... :: Didactylos 19:17, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
"Sam Vimes rage has become a legend in Ankh-Morpork even when he has never been truly angry, the single thing that keeps everyone in the city in line is the fact that "Vimes will go spare"." - this is the view of Sergeant Colon, and is not universal. The whole "rage" section could benefit from a rewrite. :: Didactylos 19:22, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm not entirely sure this is accurate, since he only drinks in the first two books he's in (in the rest, he has his cigars). -- Yar Kramer 21:24, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
At school he was once blackboard monitor for a whole term (An honour his mother paid for, unknown to him at the time).
I have always read the part about Vimes wondering where his mother got the money from as, not knowing how she afforded sending him to school, not paying for him to be Blackboard monitor, is there another reference I am miss-remembering? Gonzo 09:40, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
An article of this length is fairly conspicuously missing a picture. A cropping of this [1] would be my first thought, though I expect it's problematic legally.
"In this book Vimes bears a passing resemblance to actor Pete Postlethwaite. Pratchett has before commented that this is who he has always perceived Vimes to look like, rather than the Paul Kidby 'Clint Eastwood' representation."
Tada!-- Agent Aquamarine 06:05, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Do we need someone to scan the image of Sam Vimes from the Where's My Cow book, then? -- D'Argent 18:39, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Judge Dredd has the nickname "Old Stoneyface", whereas Sam Vimes, and his ancestor "Suffer-Not-Injustice Vimes", have the nickname "Old Stoneface". I think it's possible that Judge Dredd is an inspiration for Vimes and this isn't a coincidence, so Vimes' nickname references Dredd's. Is this worth putting in the Wiki article? -- D'Argent 18:39, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
While I applaud the work done by all of you on this article - it's really very well done - I hate to say it but this entire section (Character) smacks of WP:Original_Research. WP policy is that every statement must be attributable to a reputable source - i.e. our own analysis and interpretation has no place here. This section needs to be footnoted with sources for the material or it needs to go.-- Lepeu1999 17:36, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
To jump in here, even though the text makes reference to the book the examples were taken from, they still need to be footnoted - at least with the book information if not the specific page numbers.-- Lepeu1999 19:14, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
I agree: the article is well written and manages to convey a good description of Vimes for both fans of TP and complete strangers. However, footnotes are still necessary, even if they refer to a book. The Nouv ( talk) 14:53, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
Some of the things removed are actually direct quotes or paraphrasing from the books don't want to just revert but labelling it all as 'not a neutral point of view' is inaccurate if its Vimes POV -- Nate 09:08, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm not too clear on the rules for citations, so I'll look into them before making any changes, but this page is full of the tags. I don't know if there've been many third-party, notable works on Discworld characters, so I'm guessing that the only sources available are the books themselves.
Just how much needs to be cited, though? This block, for example:
Vimes is a very conflicted character.[citation needed] An incorruptible idealist with deep beliefs in justice and an abiding love of his city, he is also a committed cynic whose knowledge of human nature constantly reminds him how far off those ideals are.[citation needed] A member of the upper classes, he still has an innate dislike of hereditary wealth and a horror of social inequality.[citation needed]
Some of it can really only be seen through multiple interactions, but is undeniably there. I guess there's a fine line to walk between what's written and how we interpret it - with all interpretations being considered original research - but looking at all the tags, it's tempting just to stick the list of books in the references section and sweep the tags away. Raistlin11325 03:45, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
I take issue with this line, Lorenzo the Kind, the last king of the city, a sadistic torturer described as very fond of children. . The article links the 'very fond of children' part to the article on pedophilia. My personal reading of this line was an allusion to Adolf Hitlers well known fondness of children contrasting with his reputation as the most evil man who ever lived. Does anyone agree? Can we have a consensus? - Doktor Waterhouse 13:55, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
"Because my ancestor killed a-" He (i.e. Vimes) paused. "No, it wasn't even an execution," he said. "You execute a human being. You slaughter an animal." "He was the king," said Dragon mildly. "Oh, yes. And it turned out that down in the dungeons he had machines for-" "Commander," said the vampire, holding up his hands, "I feel you don't understand me. Whatever else he was, he was the king." (...) "Well someone had to do it. Some monsters should not walk under the living sky."
'He, er, doesn't appear much in the history books,' said Vimes. 'Sometimes there has to be a civil war, and sometimes, afterwards, it's best to pretend something didn't happen. Sometimes people have to do a job, and then they have to be forgotten. He wielded the axe, you know. No-one else'd do it. It was a king's neck, after all. Kings are,' he spat the word, 'special. Even after they'd seen the . . . private rooms, and cleaned up the . . . bits. Even then. No-one'd clean up the world. But he took the axe and cursed them all and did it.' 'What king was it?' said Carrot. 'Lorenzo the Kind,' said Vimes, distantly. 'I've seen his picture in the palace museum,' said Carrot. A fat old man. Surrounded by lots of children.' 'Oh yes,' said Vimes, carefully. 'He was very fond of children.'
This is the quote I was thinking of, definite undertones implying paedophilia. It's also worth considering the two are not mutauly exclusive, this is fictions elements could come from both. -- Nate1481( t/ c) 15:28, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Please remind me, at the end of Thud does Vetinari hint at grooming Vimes as his successor? If so, should this be mentioned in either or both their entries?-- Tricksterson ( talk) 18:28, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
The last paragraph of the background is absolute garbage writing. It reads like a couple of fanboys arguing over a Star Trek episode. I would suggest dropping it altogether, or replacing it with "The chronology given in Night Watch places Vimes' age at 46 for this novel." and dropping the rationalization altogether. Wcudmore ( talk) 21:44, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
It is stated that Terry Pratchett said that "Morpork books are becoming almost impossible to write without making them watch books"(parap). This really needs citation as the last four main books: Going Postal, Thud, Making Money & Unseen Academicals have all been set in Ankh-Morpork with the exception being the Watch book - Thud, which was partially set outside. If true, he's done very well (although this does not surprise). Where is WikiResearch? ( talk) 13:08, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
Many words in the intro are internal links, more than I think is strictly necessary (what are these things even called?). The article about 'Terrier' describes a kind of dog, not its use in English language as 'tool'. Do we need a separate link that discusses the exact definition of what a wife is? More to the points: most of those links are thrown about, even though they do not bear relevance to the article (for example, 'wife' may be linked internally in an article about marriage, but not when the word is used in its normal sense). They are really just used as if they link to a dictionary, which wikipedia is not. Anyone agrees? 92.109.161.68 ( talk) 21:46, 4 October 2013 (UTC)