A fact from Saint Petersburg–Hiitola railway appeared on Wikipedia's
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It should be rewritten in order to clarify the situation. Initially the article was about St. Petersburg - Sortavala railroad, which is pretty far from Joensuu, and I was going to create other articles for other Karelian railroads, but it might be a good idea to turn this into a single article about all the railways in the region (although I am not sure that there is enough space for this). However, now the section looks a bit misleading. Any suggestions? Colchicum 02:38, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Someone should decide whether to use the term railway or railroad in this article as it changes back and forth throughout. As I was only browsing through this I decided not to tamper with it myself. Welkinridge 13:23, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
This is the common practice in English language railway literature. This has been clear for me more than 40 years. North Americans have railroads, Europeans railways.
There are nice pictures with expired copyrights at [ [1]]. Colchicum 15:45, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
The kilometres starts from the point where the line diverces from the so called Connection Railway which linked S.V.R. at Kuschelevka freight yard and Nikolai Railway at Nikolai Railway´s freight yard outside the Nikolai Railway´s passenger station. When built the lenght was offically reported to be 17 versts or 18.14 km. It was originally decided to build a new railway station on the east side of Neva (Neevaa) River , just below the narrow gauge (750 mm) Irinovka Railway station at Malaja Ohta (Pien Ohta), to a place which is just north of River Ohta. The terminal station would have been what is now Grasnogvardeiskaja pl, near the Bolshetinsk bridge. The lenght of the (St.Petersburg -) Border - Raasuli - Hiitola line when built in Finnish side was 108.758 km. There were also 2.605 km branch line and the lenght of side lines was total 23.443 km. The line had 33.48 kg / metre rails when completed. The line was railed on January 24, 1917. There was a strike which prevented the graveling on the Finnish side on 05.05.1917 - 16.07.1917 and all the 1455 railway builders left their work on 14.07.1917. They returned back to work only on 16.08.1917. There was no through traffic over the Russian / Finnish railways. The Hiitola - Käkisalmi was opened to traffic on 01.08.1917, the section Käkisalmi - Rautu on 01.11.1917. There was the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia just a week later, and then chaos. In addition, the temporary wooden Vuoksi bridge could not bear the typical Russian class Od / Ov D-n2v freight locomotives with their 13.4 tonne axle load. Only axle loads about 10 tonne. This prevented the use of the line for through traffic to Hiitola. However, during the Continuation War Finland´s Army advanced over the offical border at this part of the Karelian isthmus. The Army supply trains continued over the border to a sand pit side branch located at Russian km 67 from place from the kilometers begun. Little known fact. This situation continued to June 8, 1944. During VR time the locomotives used were of class H1, H2, and K5 from Elisenvaara sub-depot. There were six daily passenger pair of trains between Hiitola and Käkisalmi and three pair of passenger trains which continued to Rautu. From Rautu operated VR autobus line to Valkjärvi twice a day in both directions to make a shorter connection to Viipuri than via Hiitola by rail. One summer VR arranged even direct sleeping car from Helsinki via Viipuri to Käkisalmi and return. (Helsinki departure at 23.20 arriving to Käkisalmi at 11.36 Departure from Käkisalmi at 19.12 arriving to Helsinki at 7.48.) The rail distance from Helsinki to Rautu was 505 km, and from Viipuri 192 km. On November 30, 1939 the last scheduled passenger train (with 2-axle post wagon) H838 left Rautu at 06.55 and was at Käkisalmi when the Russians attacked over the border. Despite the Russian attack the train continued to Hiitola and Viipuri. The south bound freight train (with 2-axle post wagon and two passenger coaches) was just at Sakkola where it was stopped. Few hours later the train was allowed to continue only to north side of Kiviniemi bridge where it took refugees from the villages near by the border. This was one of the first evacuation trains in Karelian Isthmus during the Winter War 30.11.1939 - 13.03.1940. The Finns left Käkisalmi on 17.03.1940 when the last Finnish train left the town. The situation was the same in September 1944 and the Finns left the Vuoksi line and Käkisalmi after the Armistice had come to force on 19.09.1944. Since then the whole St.Petersburg - Hiitola line has been a Russian railway line. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.114.202.89 ( talk • contribs) 23:03, 24 October 2008
I am reverting the page move, and restoring the page to Saint Petersburg–Hiitola railroad. WP:RUS does not appliy here: Khiytola is a double transliteration of the Finnish / Karelian name to Cyrillic alphabet and back to Latin alphabet. The town in fact does not have a name in the Russian language. The Finnish or Karelian name is used instead. The present constitution of the Republic of Karelia excludes Karelian and Finnish from the status of official language. The law however does not require that Karelian villages have Russian names. The Cyrillic for "Хийтола" is nothing more than a direct transliteration from the Finnish Latin script to Cyrillic. The reverse transliteration should restore the original.
While there may be valid reasons for moving the article on the Karelian village from Hiitola to Khiytola, the same does not apply to the railroad. Most of the content of the article is about the history of the railroad. It was constructed in Finland (and partily in Russia) by Finnish State Railways. Railroads retain their names, even when borders change. The double transliteration is nothing but WP:OR. -- Petri Krohn ( talk) 21:03, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
P.S. Hiitola became a part of the Russian Federation and its predecessors only in 1956. Before that it was part of the Karelo-Finnish Soviet Socialist Republic. -- Petri Krohn ( talk) 21:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
The coverage of Russian railways on the English language Wikipedia is awfull. The Finnish language category fi:Luokka:Venäjän rataverkko has almost twice as many article as Category:Railway lines in Russia!
I tryed to create a stub on the Ledmozero–Kochkoma Railway. This proved to be difficult, as we did not have an article on Ledmozero – nor on Kochkoma. In fact we did not even have an article on the Murmansk Railway. Two other major railways are involved. I will not even dare guess what they should be called in English. -- Petri Krohn ( talk) 00:00, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
A fact from Saint Petersburg–Hiitola railway appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 12 April 2007. The text of the entry was as follows:
|
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
It should be rewritten in order to clarify the situation. Initially the article was about St. Petersburg - Sortavala railroad, which is pretty far from Joensuu, and I was going to create other articles for other Karelian railroads, but it might be a good idea to turn this into a single article about all the railways in the region (although I am not sure that there is enough space for this). However, now the section looks a bit misleading. Any suggestions? Colchicum 02:38, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Someone should decide whether to use the term railway or railroad in this article as it changes back and forth throughout. As I was only browsing through this I decided not to tamper with it myself. Welkinridge 13:23, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
This is the common practice in English language railway literature. This has been clear for me more than 40 years. North Americans have railroads, Europeans railways.
There are nice pictures with expired copyrights at [ [1]]. Colchicum 15:45, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
The kilometres starts from the point where the line diverces from the so called Connection Railway which linked S.V.R. at Kuschelevka freight yard and Nikolai Railway at Nikolai Railway´s freight yard outside the Nikolai Railway´s passenger station. When built the lenght was offically reported to be 17 versts or 18.14 km. It was originally decided to build a new railway station on the east side of Neva (Neevaa) River , just below the narrow gauge (750 mm) Irinovka Railway station at Malaja Ohta (Pien Ohta), to a place which is just north of River Ohta. The terminal station would have been what is now Grasnogvardeiskaja pl, near the Bolshetinsk bridge. The lenght of the (St.Petersburg -) Border - Raasuli - Hiitola line when built in Finnish side was 108.758 km. There were also 2.605 km branch line and the lenght of side lines was total 23.443 km. The line had 33.48 kg / metre rails when completed. The line was railed on January 24, 1917. There was a strike which prevented the graveling on the Finnish side on 05.05.1917 - 16.07.1917 and all the 1455 railway builders left their work on 14.07.1917. They returned back to work only on 16.08.1917. There was no through traffic over the Russian / Finnish railways. The Hiitola - Käkisalmi was opened to traffic on 01.08.1917, the section Käkisalmi - Rautu on 01.11.1917. There was the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia just a week later, and then chaos. In addition, the temporary wooden Vuoksi bridge could not bear the typical Russian class Od / Ov D-n2v freight locomotives with their 13.4 tonne axle load. Only axle loads about 10 tonne. This prevented the use of the line for through traffic to Hiitola. However, during the Continuation War Finland´s Army advanced over the offical border at this part of the Karelian isthmus. The Army supply trains continued over the border to a sand pit side branch located at Russian km 67 from place from the kilometers begun. Little known fact. This situation continued to June 8, 1944. During VR time the locomotives used were of class H1, H2, and K5 from Elisenvaara sub-depot. There were six daily passenger pair of trains between Hiitola and Käkisalmi and three pair of passenger trains which continued to Rautu. From Rautu operated VR autobus line to Valkjärvi twice a day in both directions to make a shorter connection to Viipuri than via Hiitola by rail. One summer VR arranged even direct sleeping car from Helsinki via Viipuri to Käkisalmi and return. (Helsinki departure at 23.20 arriving to Käkisalmi at 11.36 Departure from Käkisalmi at 19.12 arriving to Helsinki at 7.48.) The rail distance from Helsinki to Rautu was 505 km, and from Viipuri 192 km. On November 30, 1939 the last scheduled passenger train (with 2-axle post wagon) H838 left Rautu at 06.55 and was at Käkisalmi when the Russians attacked over the border. Despite the Russian attack the train continued to Hiitola and Viipuri. The south bound freight train (with 2-axle post wagon and two passenger coaches) was just at Sakkola where it was stopped. Few hours later the train was allowed to continue only to north side of Kiviniemi bridge where it took refugees from the villages near by the border. This was one of the first evacuation trains in Karelian Isthmus during the Winter War 30.11.1939 - 13.03.1940. The Finns left Käkisalmi on 17.03.1940 when the last Finnish train left the town. The situation was the same in September 1944 and the Finns left the Vuoksi line and Käkisalmi after the Armistice had come to force on 19.09.1944. Since then the whole St.Petersburg - Hiitola line has been a Russian railway line. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.114.202.89 ( talk • contribs) 23:03, 24 October 2008
I am reverting the page move, and restoring the page to Saint Petersburg–Hiitola railroad. WP:RUS does not appliy here: Khiytola is a double transliteration of the Finnish / Karelian name to Cyrillic alphabet and back to Latin alphabet. The town in fact does not have a name in the Russian language. The Finnish or Karelian name is used instead. The present constitution of the Republic of Karelia excludes Karelian and Finnish from the status of official language. The law however does not require that Karelian villages have Russian names. The Cyrillic for "Хийтола" is nothing more than a direct transliteration from the Finnish Latin script to Cyrillic. The reverse transliteration should restore the original.
While there may be valid reasons for moving the article on the Karelian village from Hiitola to Khiytola, the same does not apply to the railroad. Most of the content of the article is about the history of the railroad. It was constructed in Finland (and partily in Russia) by Finnish State Railways. Railroads retain their names, even when borders change. The double transliteration is nothing but WP:OR. -- Petri Krohn ( talk) 21:03, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
P.S. Hiitola became a part of the Russian Federation and its predecessors only in 1956. Before that it was part of the Karelo-Finnish Soviet Socialist Republic. -- Petri Krohn ( talk) 21:30, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
The coverage of Russian railways on the English language Wikipedia is awfull. The Finnish language category fi:Luokka:Venäjän rataverkko has almost twice as many article as Category:Railway lines in Russia!
I tryed to create a stub on the Ledmozero–Kochkoma Railway. This proved to be difficult, as we did not have an article on Ledmozero – nor on Kochkoma. In fact we did not even have an article on the Murmansk Railway. Two other major railways are involved. I will not even dare guess what they should be called in English. -- Petri Krohn ( talk) 00:00, 16 April 2009 (UTC)