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Old Version: He is also venerated in the Anglican Communion, the Old Catholic Church and in the Eastern Orthodox Church as equal-to-the-apostles and Enlightener of Ireland.[2]
New Version: He is also venerated in the Anglican Communion, the Catholic Church and in the Eastern Orthodox Church as equal-to-the-apostles and Enlightener of Ireland.[2] Mazdamx ( talk) 00:35, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
According to History.com, "It is known that St. Patrick was born in Britain to wealthy parents near the end of the fourth century. Although his father was a Christian deacon, he probably took on the role because of tax incentives and there is no evidence that Patrick came from a particularly religious family. At the age of 16, Patrick was taken prisoner by a group of Irish raiders who were attacking his family’s estate. They transported him to Ireland where he spent six years in captivity, turning to religion for solace." [1] "But for all of his prevalence in culture, namely the holiday held on the day of his death that bears his name, many of the stories traditionally associated with St. Patrick, including the famous account of his banishing all the snakes from Ireland, are false, the products of hundreds of years of exaggerated storytelling." Id. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikid editor ( talk • contribs) 21:48, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
Battle for the Body of Saint Patrick is short so it would fit easily into this article. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 02:26, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
Slate has published an article about the quality of this article after they had asked two professors to review it. My congratulations to everyone who has worked to get this article to such a high standard. Ϣere SpielChequers 17:48, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
I thought that this is a common myth - that he is only the "unofficial" Patron Saint, and sources list only Brigit and Columba as "official" Irish saints? Can we get a citation for his patronage, or at least citation needed on the page??? :)
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Please change "though identified in one tradition as Glannoventa, modern Ravenglass in Cumbria, in what is now England; claims have been advanced for locations in both present-day Scotland and Wales" to "which has been speculated to be in Wales, Scotland or even England."
Reason- 2 sources: 1 broken link as source + 1 weak source. There are many other more credible sources naming Scotland or Wales as the birthplace. Giving more credance to Saint Patrick being born in England than the other places is deceptive, as his birthplace is unknown, but more generally accepted to be Scotland or Wales (which is discussed in previous sources used in the article). 2A02:C7D:6449:FB00:5091:E279:9CBE:F57C ( talk) 17:28, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
We know he was born in Nemthur and we are told that was in Strathclyde which has long been known to be Old Kilpatrick. This has recently been identified as Roman Nemeton which confirms he was born in Scotland: http://roman-britain.co.uk/nemthur.htm . There is no real evidence for any other location. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.108.73.95 ( talk) 17:13, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
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I have been trying to find where this statement which is currently in the page regarding his birth originates: "one tradition as Glannoventa, modern Ravenglass in Cumbria". I cannot find any source at all. Without any credible source it should be removed.
Likewise Banwen in Wales is not credible. It originates as a story given to an 8 year by their grandfather [2]. Do I need to point out that this is not a reliable source? The source of their grandfathers tall story appears to be Bury 1905 [3] where it says: "The existence of three places named Banwen (which may represent Bannauenta) in Glamorganshire opens a prospect that the solution may possibly lie there."
And similarly the idea that the site was in Northamptonshire appears to originate from 1899 when “Professor Haverfield, writing in the Victoria County History, expressed the opinion that this place could be none other than the Benaventa of the Antonine Itinerary, adding the interesting statement that it was possibly the birthplace of Ireland's Patron Saint … Haverfield, **while not attaching too much importance to this coincidence**, evidently regarded it as worthy of consideration” (BOROUGH HILL (DAVENTRY) AND ITS HISTORY by William Edgar. 1923 [4] Again, this is idle speculation with no historical evidence.
In contrast, this source: [5] gives a detailed explanation for why the site is Old Kilpatrick and there is no question that Strathclyde is the historic location as this reference explains:
“four of the five perfect lives explicitly state that Saint Patrick was born in Britain; three of them add, in the district of Strathclyde! It is hard to imagine how any one could be so audacious as to reject such a weight of ancient testimonies," (Turner 1872 p.274) [6]
Likewise this location also states Old Kilpatrick [7] and the Statistical account said the same (reference not to hand)
As such I suggest the following (apologise for formatting): From "from Banna Venta Berniae,[27] a location otherwise unknown,[28][29][30] though identified in one tradition as Glannoventa, modern Ravenglass in Cumbria, in what is now England; claims have been advanced for locations in both present-day Scotland and Wales."
TO: [Fullstop] St.Patrick in his confession tells us his Grandfather's home was Bannavem Taberniae a location that is unknown. However a note to Fiacc's hymn tells us he was born in Irish Nemthur: "Genair Patraic i Nemthur" or Latin Nemturri: "Natus est Patricius Nemturri" which it says was in Strathclyde (ref: turner [8])
Most sources therefore locate the birthplace of Saint Patrick in the region of Strathclyde “four of the five perfect lives explicitly state that Saint Patrick was born in Britain; three of them add, in the district of Strathclyde! It is hard to imagine how any one could be so audacious as to reject such a weight of ancient testimonies," (Turner 1872 p.274) and many specifically say in Old Kilpatrick [9] [10]. However suggestions have been given for a variety of places such as Banwen & Ravenglass.
The "Legends" section has a "Folk Piety" section, which seems to have nothing to do with piety and not really folklore believed by ordinary people but rather "miscellaneous pseudo-biographical stuff we found on the internet but haven't sourced back to a particular hagiography or antiquarian". Some of it repeats earlier better-sourced information If you want genuine folklore there are 487 items in the National Folklore Collection. Things like visiting St Patrick's Well are there. Dia is Muire dhuit is Pádraig and similar invocations would also constitute genuine folk piety. "Places associated with Saint Patrick" could be made another subsection of Legends.
I think "Seventh-century writings" should be renamed "Hagiographers", as it already goes beyond the seventh century; the Tripartite Life of Saint Patrick and " Saint Fiacc" could be augmented.
"Maewyn Succat" is a factoid rather than a popular myth — Internet "did you know" propagators are at least correct that it is little known. (No matches for either Maewyn or Succat in the National Folklore Collection.) How old is it? I can date Maewyn to 1924 p.413 and Maewyn Succat to 1977 p.9 (Succat is 1786 English). "Patricius Magonus Sucatus" is in Bury 1905 and "Magonus Sucatus Patricius" is in Bieler 1951. There are already two sections, "Name" and "Seventh-century writings", which contradict each other about Ultán's Magonus and Succetus; these portions should be merged and the "Maewyn Succat" factoid discussed alongside them. jnestorius( talk) 19:00, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
The line in the section "Patrick banishes all snakes from Ireland" reading: "The snakes, rather, were a metaphor for the druids, who Patrick is said to have driven out of Ireland when he established Christianity there.[85]" is not as true as it appears. The scholarly merits of the source are negligible as far as I was able to discover in searching for the book and the author. The editing errors in the quote provided in the footnote seem a bit of a red flag at the very least. This sentence should at least be edited to begin "Some claim..."
101.98.243.88 ( talk) 03:20, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
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Under "Other places named after Saint Patrick include:" add: • St Patrick's Church, Inchagoill, on Lough Corrib. A church whose construction is traditionally attributed to St Patrick and his nephew Lugnad. A 6th century stone commemorating Lugnad is also present on the ireland. Lm nash123 ( talk) 19:17, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
I have removed two of the sources that were provided to support various claims of Patrick's birthplace (the article includes other qualified sources for the various claims, anyway).
One was an entry on the WebAnswers website; WebAnswers invites people to ask questions on its site and solicits answers without verifying their credibility or the reputations of those who provide them. It's not a reliable source.
The second was an entry on Encyclopedia.com. It identifies his birthplace as a location that historic accounts associate not with him but with his grandfather. For that reason, the statement is not reliable.
Twistlethrop (
talk)
19:24, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
Saint Patrick was married to a woman named Sheelah but I couldn't find her in wikipedia. Little seems to have been known about her, but March 18 was once known as Sheelah’s Day. This is still observed in Newfoundland, Canada and in Irish-settled portions of Australia. I felt uncomfortable making the edit myself, but here is an article making note of it.
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/st-patrick-had-a-wife-and-her-name-was-sheelah-1.3013056 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FCC8:AD08:EC00:3D9F:8F37:63C7:1D3 ( talk) 07:36, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
On the section of Patrick banishes all snakes from Ireland, I think it we be relevant to talk of the similarities of this story with that of another Irish story on Goídel Glas.For instance if it was added:
If this was added after the line "Aaron's snake-staff prevails by consuming the other snakes" and before the next paragraph starting with the line "However, all evidence suggests that post-glacial Ireland never had snakes" i think this will give a more detail to people on the past authors of these stories fascination of merging Irish history and culture with that of the bible.
References
What is certainly important is that the claim that the banishing of the snakes refers to the banishing of druids should be removed. There is no reliable source for this. The book referenced in the footnote to this (which should also be removed) is a highly eccentric, self-published book. It is not an academic source. I doubt a more reliable source can be found for this claim. Peterhunterop ( talk) 00:07, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
There is absolutely no definitive, provable birthplace or place of burial for Patrick. Surely it makes sense to use the term "possibly" along with suggestions of various, debated places of origin? E.g. "Possibly Roman Britain", "Possibly Roman France". On the subject of major shrines, surely major Irish shrines should be listed? (Croagh Patrick, for example?) Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:bb6:8465:da58:1914:feef:d25a:7363 ( talk) 21:57, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
Once again, St Patrick's day comes and Roy Flechner's revisionist interpretations get front-loaded into the lede. I have moved them to their appropriate positions in the article - the lede is supposed to summarise the article. -- Nicknack009 ( talk) 12:27, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
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Can you please check this: St. Patrick died about 460/461 as the article says but the date of his death given on the top says 385- 431.
Thank you. 109.255.91.39 ( talk) 19:21, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
In tracing the mission of Germanus of Auxerre to Britain in 429, I've come across 19thc. scholarship that refers to Cattug/Catocus/Catwg as a member of that mission along with Patrick, with a suggestion that Catocus also turned up in Ireland. I can't find the sources for these assertions, and am wondering if there's any substance to them. Shtove 00:59, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
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Please change X to Y, because the page seems to lack specific links to other places - especially within Somerset. Glastonbury has a rich link with both Irish pilgrims of the faith and St. Patrick to this day and I think linking it in wiki will only enrich and add further interest to the amazing knowledge that is here thus far. It will also add context to the mention of Glastonbury within the list of "major shrines" section. Thank you.
For reference - X reads:
"Patrick was born in Roman Britain. His birthplace is not known with any certainty; some traditions place it in England—one identifying it as Glannoventa (modern Ravenglass in Cumbria)[31]—but claims have also been advanced for locations in both present-day Scotland [32] and Wales.[33]"
Edit request to change it to Y:
"Patrick was born in Roman Britain. His birthplace is not known with any certainty; some traditions place it in England—one identifying it as Glannoventa (modern Ravenglass in Cumbria)[31], with one historian claiming it to be Banwell in Somerset [Source 1] ,due it's location (access to the Bristol Channel) and is also close to Glastonbury - a place that has been commonly associated with his final resting place.[Source 2] Claims have also been advanced for locations in both present-day Scotland (Kilpatrick) [32] and Wales.[33]"
[Source 1] http://www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/artgue/guestjelley.htm & https://www.irishcatholic.com/new-light-on-st-patricks-birthplace/ [Source 2] 1 See H. P. R. Finberg. I.E.R. June 1967 "“pilgrims of Irish race, like many others of the faithful, frequented Glastonbury with great devotion, especially in honour of blessed Patrick, who is said to have ended his life happily 'there in the Lord”" Glaaaastonbury88 ( talk) 08:12, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
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It says that St Patrick was born in Great Britain but this is incorrect as Great Britain did not officially exist until 1707. It would be accurate and proper to state the British Isles which refers to the geographical area rather than to any particular country seeing as the country is contested however he was definitely not born in Great Britain unless he had a time machine!
Great Britain is widely understood to mean England, Wales and Scotland hence the British passport says the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Many today perceive Great Britain as a country.
Whilst it is said Great Britain was used colloquially to refer to the mainland of the British Isles, confusion can still arise when using the term today as it is also a politically loaded term which may be used to assert a particular identity rather than to assert a geographical area, particularly with regards to Unionist and Nationalist debates relating to national identity. For these reasons it would be more prudent to use British Isles. 94.173.127.175 ( talk) 13:10, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Not done: Saint Patrick's would still have been born in Great Britian in that case. It isn't used in a nopolitics context here so I don't think that is a worry either for this article. I don't think a change is needed. Dubarr18 ( talk) 19:35, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
This section rests on the assertions of one scholar, whose argument on this subject has not been accepted in mainstream scholarship on Late Antiquity or St. Patrick. See the review by Diarmaid MacCulloch. https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v41/n15/diarmaid-macculloch/who-kicked-them-out
I would propose eliminating the section outright, or, at least, adding a clear disclaimer that the opinion is not generally accepted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.58.102.208 ( talk) 05:02, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
Checking the section itself it should either be made clearer that it only has a single source. One of the links is also now dead, I'm unsure how to show that on the citation itself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dubarr18 ( talk • contribs) 17:14, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
I agree. The reinterpretation is pure speculation, unless credible sources are provided. I could just as well speculate that both stories are true - that Patrick fled his legal responsibility and in route was abducted by raiders, enslaved, escaped, returned home to England where he was imprisoned to pay his debt for fleeing his Roman legal responsibility at 16. But, merging fact with fiction is still fiction. Mjwilkin9 ( talk) 20:44, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
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I request that we change the spelling of Patrick to patryk thanks 2A01:B340:80:22DE:B49B:51B5:4832:F85 ( talk) 13:44, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
This may be a bit picky, but surely its better to say "Romano-Briton" or something along those lines, as the Britons was the celtic peoples of wales, while the British is a later term for people from the UK of Great Britain? Tíocfaidh ár lá, Éire. ( talk) 16:03, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
I know this is a minor issue, but I just wanted to point out that, in modern Irish, the pronunciation of the name Pádraig does not have a /dˠ/. The usual IPA transcription for <á> is /ɑː/ on Wikipedia pages, although it does not represent Ulster Irish's /æː/. So, a transcription that would be correct and accepted is either /ˈpˠɑːɾˠɪc/ or /ˈpˠɑːɾˠɪɟ/. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Teangacha ( talk • contribs) 09:38, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
There is no mention here, or image, of the flag of the Irish Patron Saint. I presume this is an omission? — Preceding unsigned comment added by FreeFlow99 ( talk • contribs) 11:06, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
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Other places named after Saint Patrick include:
St. Patrick, Missouri and Shrine of Saint Patrick, Missouri https://saintpatrickshrine.com/ 2001:5B0:261B:3A38:D559:1D2:3E27:71E0 ( talk) 04:51, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
Dumville wrote a book on Patrick dying in 493 in 1993. It was his original thesis, so I very much doubt he changed his mind in one year. Tallhwch ( talk) 23:27, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
Professor Elva Johnston writes, "The idea that Ireland is one of the last lands, at the very gates of the known and knowable world, underlies the writings of St Patrick in the fifth century. It has been pointed out that Patrick thought Ireland lay at the edge of the earth.49 He believed that his actions would usher in the Last Days; the Gospel had been preached throughout the world and the stage was set for the second coming of Christ." [1]
I think this is a noteworthy part of Patrick's worldview and should be included in the article. Is this a common view in the literature? Even if it's contested it would still be useful to have the debate put in somewhere. ComradeKublai ( talk) 03:18, 6 October 2022 (UTC) ComradeKublai ( talk) 03:18, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
References
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
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Old Version: He is also venerated in the Anglican Communion, the Old Catholic Church and in the Eastern Orthodox Church as equal-to-the-apostles and Enlightener of Ireland.[2]
New Version: He is also venerated in the Anglican Communion, the Catholic Church and in the Eastern Orthodox Church as equal-to-the-apostles and Enlightener of Ireland.[2] Mazdamx ( talk) 00:35, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
According to History.com, "It is known that St. Patrick was born in Britain to wealthy parents near the end of the fourth century. Although his father was a Christian deacon, he probably took on the role because of tax incentives and there is no evidence that Patrick came from a particularly religious family. At the age of 16, Patrick was taken prisoner by a group of Irish raiders who were attacking his family’s estate. They transported him to Ireland where he spent six years in captivity, turning to religion for solace." [1] "But for all of his prevalence in culture, namely the holiday held on the day of his death that bears his name, many of the stories traditionally associated with St. Patrick, including the famous account of his banishing all the snakes from Ireland, are false, the products of hundreds of years of exaggerated storytelling." Id. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikid editor ( talk • contribs) 21:48, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
Battle for the Body of Saint Patrick is short so it would fit easily into this article. Anythingyouwant ( talk) 02:26, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
Slate has published an article about the quality of this article after they had asked two professors to review it. My congratulations to everyone who has worked to get this article to such a high standard. Ϣere SpielChequers 17:48, 19 March 2018 (UTC)
I thought that this is a common myth - that he is only the "unofficial" Patron Saint, and sources list only Brigit and Columba as "official" Irish saints? Can we get a citation for his patronage, or at least citation needed on the page??? :)
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Please change "though identified in one tradition as Glannoventa, modern Ravenglass in Cumbria, in what is now England; claims have been advanced for locations in both present-day Scotland and Wales" to "which has been speculated to be in Wales, Scotland or even England."
Reason- 2 sources: 1 broken link as source + 1 weak source. There are many other more credible sources naming Scotland or Wales as the birthplace. Giving more credance to Saint Patrick being born in England than the other places is deceptive, as his birthplace is unknown, but more generally accepted to be Scotland or Wales (which is discussed in previous sources used in the article). 2A02:C7D:6449:FB00:5091:E279:9CBE:F57C ( talk) 17:28, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
We know he was born in Nemthur and we are told that was in Strathclyde which has long been known to be Old Kilpatrick. This has recently been identified as Roman Nemeton which confirms he was born in Scotland: http://roman-britain.co.uk/nemthur.htm . There is no real evidence for any other location. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.108.73.95 ( talk) 17:13, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
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I have been trying to find where this statement which is currently in the page regarding his birth originates: "one tradition as Glannoventa, modern Ravenglass in Cumbria". I cannot find any source at all. Without any credible source it should be removed.
Likewise Banwen in Wales is not credible. It originates as a story given to an 8 year by their grandfather [2]. Do I need to point out that this is not a reliable source? The source of their grandfathers tall story appears to be Bury 1905 [3] where it says: "The existence of three places named Banwen (which may represent Bannauenta) in Glamorganshire opens a prospect that the solution may possibly lie there."
And similarly the idea that the site was in Northamptonshire appears to originate from 1899 when “Professor Haverfield, writing in the Victoria County History, expressed the opinion that this place could be none other than the Benaventa of the Antonine Itinerary, adding the interesting statement that it was possibly the birthplace of Ireland's Patron Saint … Haverfield, **while not attaching too much importance to this coincidence**, evidently regarded it as worthy of consideration” (BOROUGH HILL (DAVENTRY) AND ITS HISTORY by William Edgar. 1923 [4] Again, this is idle speculation with no historical evidence.
In contrast, this source: [5] gives a detailed explanation for why the site is Old Kilpatrick and there is no question that Strathclyde is the historic location as this reference explains:
“four of the five perfect lives explicitly state that Saint Patrick was born in Britain; three of them add, in the district of Strathclyde! It is hard to imagine how any one could be so audacious as to reject such a weight of ancient testimonies," (Turner 1872 p.274) [6]
Likewise this location also states Old Kilpatrick [7] and the Statistical account said the same (reference not to hand)
As such I suggest the following (apologise for formatting): From "from Banna Venta Berniae,[27] a location otherwise unknown,[28][29][30] though identified in one tradition as Glannoventa, modern Ravenglass in Cumbria, in what is now England; claims have been advanced for locations in both present-day Scotland and Wales."
TO: [Fullstop] St.Patrick in his confession tells us his Grandfather's home was Bannavem Taberniae a location that is unknown. However a note to Fiacc's hymn tells us he was born in Irish Nemthur: "Genair Patraic i Nemthur" or Latin Nemturri: "Natus est Patricius Nemturri" which it says was in Strathclyde (ref: turner [8])
Most sources therefore locate the birthplace of Saint Patrick in the region of Strathclyde “four of the five perfect lives explicitly state that Saint Patrick was born in Britain; three of them add, in the district of Strathclyde! It is hard to imagine how any one could be so audacious as to reject such a weight of ancient testimonies," (Turner 1872 p.274) and many specifically say in Old Kilpatrick [9] [10]. However suggestions have been given for a variety of places such as Banwen & Ravenglass.
The "Legends" section has a "Folk Piety" section, which seems to have nothing to do with piety and not really folklore believed by ordinary people but rather "miscellaneous pseudo-biographical stuff we found on the internet but haven't sourced back to a particular hagiography or antiquarian". Some of it repeats earlier better-sourced information If you want genuine folklore there are 487 items in the National Folklore Collection. Things like visiting St Patrick's Well are there. Dia is Muire dhuit is Pádraig and similar invocations would also constitute genuine folk piety. "Places associated with Saint Patrick" could be made another subsection of Legends.
I think "Seventh-century writings" should be renamed "Hagiographers", as it already goes beyond the seventh century; the Tripartite Life of Saint Patrick and " Saint Fiacc" could be augmented.
"Maewyn Succat" is a factoid rather than a popular myth — Internet "did you know" propagators are at least correct that it is little known. (No matches for either Maewyn or Succat in the National Folklore Collection.) How old is it? I can date Maewyn to 1924 p.413 and Maewyn Succat to 1977 p.9 (Succat is 1786 English). "Patricius Magonus Sucatus" is in Bury 1905 and "Magonus Sucatus Patricius" is in Bieler 1951. There are already two sections, "Name" and "Seventh-century writings", which contradict each other about Ultán's Magonus and Succetus; these portions should be merged and the "Maewyn Succat" factoid discussed alongside them. jnestorius( talk) 19:00, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
The line in the section "Patrick banishes all snakes from Ireland" reading: "The snakes, rather, were a metaphor for the druids, who Patrick is said to have driven out of Ireland when he established Christianity there.[85]" is not as true as it appears. The scholarly merits of the source are negligible as far as I was able to discover in searching for the book and the author. The editing errors in the quote provided in the footnote seem a bit of a red flag at the very least. This sentence should at least be edited to begin "Some claim..."
101.98.243.88 ( talk) 03:20, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
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Under "Other places named after Saint Patrick include:" add: • St Patrick's Church, Inchagoill, on Lough Corrib. A church whose construction is traditionally attributed to St Patrick and his nephew Lugnad. A 6th century stone commemorating Lugnad is also present on the ireland. Lm nash123 ( talk) 19:17, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
I have removed two of the sources that were provided to support various claims of Patrick's birthplace (the article includes other qualified sources for the various claims, anyway).
One was an entry on the WebAnswers website; WebAnswers invites people to ask questions on its site and solicits answers without verifying their credibility or the reputations of those who provide them. It's not a reliable source.
The second was an entry on Encyclopedia.com. It identifies his birthplace as a location that historic accounts associate not with him but with his grandfather. For that reason, the statement is not reliable.
Twistlethrop (
talk)
19:24, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
Saint Patrick was married to a woman named Sheelah but I couldn't find her in wikipedia. Little seems to have been known about her, but March 18 was once known as Sheelah’s Day. This is still observed in Newfoundland, Canada and in Irish-settled portions of Australia. I felt uncomfortable making the edit myself, but here is an article making note of it.
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/st-patrick-had-a-wife-and-her-name-was-sheelah-1.3013056 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FCC8:AD08:EC00:3D9F:8F37:63C7:1D3 ( talk) 07:36, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
On the section of Patrick banishes all snakes from Ireland, I think it we be relevant to talk of the similarities of this story with that of another Irish story on Goídel Glas.For instance if it was added:
If this was added after the line "Aaron's snake-staff prevails by consuming the other snakes" and before the next paragraph starting with the line "However, all evidence suggests that post-glacial Ireland never had snakes" i think this will give a more detail to people on the past authors of these stories fascination of merging Irish history and culture with that of the bible.
References
What is certainly important is that the claim that the banishing of the snakes refers to the banishing of druids should be removed. There is no reliable source for this. The book referenced in the footnote to this (which should also be removed) is a highly eccentric, self-published book. It is not an academic source. I doubt a more reliable source can be found for this claim. Peterhunterop ( talk) 00:07, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
There is absolutely no definitive, provable birthplace or place of burial for Patrick. Surely it makes sense to use the term "possibly" along with suggestions of various, debated places of origin? E.g. "Possibly Roman Britain", "Possibly Roman France". On the subject of major shrines, surely major Irish shrines should be listed? (Croagh Patrick, for example?) Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:bb6:8465:da58:1914:feef:d25a:7363 ( talk) 21:57, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
Once again, St Patrick's day comes and Roy Flechner's revisionist interpretations get front-loaded into the lede. I have moved them to their appropriate positions in the article - the lede is supposed to summarise the article. -- Nicknack009 ( talk) 12:27, 20 March 2019 (UTC)
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Can you please check this: St. Patrick died about 460/461 as the article says but the date of his death given on the top says 385- 431.
Thank you. 109.255.91.39 ( talk) 19:21, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
In tracing the mission of Germanus of Auxerre to Britain in 429, I've come across 19thc. scholarship that refers to Cattug/Catocus/Catwg as a member of that mission along with Patrick, with a suggestion that Catocus also turned up in Ireland. I can't find the sources for these assertions, and am wondering if there's any substance to them. Shtove 00:59, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
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Please change X to Y, because the page seems to lack specific links to other places - especially within Somerset. Glastonbury has a rich link with both Irish pilgrims of the faith and St. Patrick to this day and I think linking it in wiki will only enrich and add further interest to the amazing knowledge that is here thus far. It will also add context to the mention of Glastonbury within the list of "major shrines" section. Thank you.
For reference - X reads:
"Patrick was born in Roman Britain. His birthplace is not known with any certainty; some traditions place it in England—one identifying it as Glannoventa (modern Ravenglass in Cumbria)[31]—but claims have also been advanced for locations in both present-day Scotland [32] and Wales.[33]"
Edit request to change it to Y:
"Patrick was born in Roman Britain. His birthplace is not known with any certainty; some traditions place it in England—one identifying it as Glannoventa (modern Ravenglass in Cumbria)[31], with one historian claiming it to be Banwell in Somerset [Source 1] ,due it's location (access to the Bristol Channel) and is also close to Glastonbury - a place that has been commonly associated with his final resting place.[Source 2] Claims have also been advanced for locations in both present-day Scotland (Kilpatrick) [32] and Wales.[33]"
[Source 1] http://www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/artgue/guestjelley.htm & https://www.irishcatholic.com/new-light-on-st-patricks-birthplace/ [Source 2] 1 See H. P. R. Finberg. I.E.R. June 1967 "“pilgrims of Irish race, like many others of the faithful, frequented Glastonbury with great devotion, especially in honour of blessed Patrick, who is said to have ended his life happily 'there in the Lord”" Glaaaastonbury88 ( talk) 08:12, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
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It says that St Patrick was born in Great Britain but this is incorrect as Great Britain did not officially exist until 1707. It would be accurate and proper to state the British Isles which refers to the geographical area rather than to any particular country seeing as the country is contested however he was definitely not born in Great Britain unless he had a time machine!
Great Britain is widely understood to mean England, Wales and Scotland hence the British passport says the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Many today perceive Great Britain as a country.
Whilst it is said Great Britain was used colloquially to refer to the mainland of the British Isles, confusion can still arise when using the term today as it is also a politically loaded term which may be used to assert a particular identity rather than to assert a geographical area, particularly with regards to Unionist and Nationalist debates relating to national identity. For these reasons it would be more prudent to use British Isles. 94.173.127.175 ( talk) 13:10, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Not done: Saint Patrick's would still have been born in Great Britian in that case. It isn't used in a nopolitics context here so I don't think that is a worry either for this article. I don't think a change is needed. Dubarr18 ( talk) 19:35, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
This section rests on the assertions of one scholar, whose argument on this subject has not been accepted in mainstream scholarship on Late Antiquity or St. Patrick. See the review by Diarmaid MacCulloch. https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v41/n15/diarmaid-macculloch/who-kicked-them-out
I would propose eliminating the section outright, or, at least, adding a clear disclaimer that the opinion is not generally accepted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.58.102.208 ( talk) 05:02, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
Checking the section itself it should either be made clearer that it only has a single source. One of the links is also now dead, I'm unsure how to show that on the citation itself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dubarr18 ( talk • contribs) 17:14, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
I agree. The reinterpretation is pure speculation, unless credible sources are provided. I could just as well speculate that both stories are true - that Patrick fled his legal responsibility and in route was abducted by raiders, enslaved, escaped, returned home to England where he was imprisoned to pay his debt for fleeing his Roman legal responsibility at 16. But, merging fact with fiction is still fiction. Mjwilkin9 ( talk) 20:44, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
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I request that we change the spelling of Patrick to patryk thanks 2A01:B340:80:22DE:B49B:51B5:4832:F85 ( talk) 13:44, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
This may be a bit picky, but surely its better to say "Romano-Briton" or something along those lines, as the Britons was the celtic peoples of wales, while the British is a later term for people from the UK of Great Britain? Tíocfaidh ár lá, Éire. ( talk) 16:03, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
I know this is a minor issue, but I just wanted to point out that, in modern Irish, the pronunciation of the name Pádraig does not have a /dˠ/. The usual IPA transcription for <á> is /ɑː/ on Wikipedia pages, although it does not represent Ulster Irish's /æː/. So, a transcription that would be correct and accepted is either /ˈpˠɑːɾˠɪc/ or /ˈpˠɑːɾˠɪɟ/. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Teangacha ( talk • contribs) 09:38, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
There is no mention here, or image, of the flag of the Irish Patron Saint. I presume this is an omission? — Preceding unsigned comment added by FreeFlow99 ( talk • contribs) 11:06, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
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Other places named after Saint Patrick include:
St. Patrick, Missouri and Shrine of Saint Patrick, Missouri https://saintpatrickshrine.com/ 2001:5B0:261B:3A38:D559:1D2:3E27:71E0 ( talk) 04:51, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
Dumville wrote a book on Patrick dying in 493 in 1993. It was his original thesis, so I very much doubt he changed his mind in one year. Tallhwch ( talk) 23:27, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
Professor Elva Johnston writes, "The idea that Ireland is one of the last lands, at the very gates of the known and knowable world, underlies the writings of St Patrick in the fifth century. It has been pointed out that Patrick thought Ireland lay at the edge of the earth.49 He believed that his actions would usher in the Last Days; the Gospel had been preached throughout the world and the stage was set for the second coming of Christ." [1]
I think this is a noteworthy part of Patrick's worldview and should be included in the article. Is this a common view in the literature? Even if it's contested it would still be useful to have the debate put in somewhere. ComradeKublai ( talk) 03:18, 6 October 2022 (UTC) ComradeKublai ( talk) 03:18, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
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