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Because of his legend, there are many accounts of this saint. It is generally accepted that he was kidnapped at age 14 (please see St. Patrick). Part of the problem is that his birthdate is uncertain and he is vital to different organizations and countries. I would be interested in hearing what other regular editors have to say about this. -- Morenooso ( talk) 04:33, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
In the box under patronage: I added "invoked" before "against snakes" otherwise it reads like it says "against" snakes AND the Melbourne archdiocese. It's still a bit awkward IMO. I tried to put the snakes bit after Melbourne but couldn't figure out how to do it. Ladycascadia ( talk) 16:46, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
I think the title of the page should be moved to St. Patrick or St Patrick instead of Saint. RCSprinter123 ( talk) 11:07, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
This portion of the article stands out strongly as being too long, too story-telling-like in its prose (too un-encyclopedic), and too slanted toward the Christian church's account of history (such as in lines like "the Druidism that held the nation captive").
Does the section add anything to the article, in terms of neutral and relevant knowledge? I'd advocate either paraphrasing it down considerably, or deleting the section outright.
Startswithj ( talk) 23:39, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
How about we revert that section to the version referred to by Angus? carl bunderson (talk) (contributions) 14:37, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
It's obvious that shamrocks are strictly related to St Patrick because of the wise use he gave them to teach the Trinity. However, it seems Irish people already considered them as a sacred symbol of life but also luck; that is, a kind of pagan talisman. And that is why, maybe, Irish people still use the phrase "Drowning The Shamrock" related to the custom of floating the shamrock on the top of whiskey before drinking it, because they believe that if you keep the custom, then you will have a prosperous year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Loli MG alumna ITE ( talk • contribs) 13:06, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
the harp is the symbol of ireland not the shamrock. But the shamrock is often used too becasuse of st. patrick.
According to the info box Saint Patrick was 106 years old when he died. Even with modern medicine that is exceedingly rare, and probably unheard of during the Dark Ages. Someone with knowledge needs to get to the bottom of that. ZincOrbie ( talk) 04:37, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
The Saint Patrick's name in the English language, was known in various other languages of that time in a number of variants. Among them the root of all these variations was the word-name "Patrikios" of ancient Greek origin. It is still used today in Greece, although infrequently. Also at the times of Saint Patrick's (i.e. 4th and 5th centuries A.D.), there was not any Roman Catholic Church in existence (long before the Schism). The Christian Faith was One, and in accordance with the Creed, which is still today read in the main Christian Churches (since the 4th century AD), the Church was "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church" (the Greek word Catholic means "Universal"). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.165.195.91 ( talk) 00:47, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
Would the powers that be please mark this article for review/cleanup? The quality is poor. I have not made any changes.
My single greatest objection is the phrase in the second paragraph "from which come the only universally accepted details of his life". We live in a civilization where a round Earth and heliocentricity are not universally accepted today. This phrasing does not belong in any Wikipedia article.
The rest of the article jumbles up the conventional and revisionist accounts of his life, which is confusing. The conventional account may be apocryphal so this switching creates the impression that sections which describe the conventional tale are reasonably historical. I suggest a structure where the conventional details are presented together (with a caveat in the introduction) and then there is a discussion of the historicity of that account is discussed, then some rival theories. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Registar ( talk • contribs) 19:52, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
I have removed this bit:
"However, this interpretation of St. Patrick's time in Ireland has been challenged by historians who posit that it is more likely that St Patrick fled Britain to avoid the onerous job of tax collector. They also claim, without support from primary sources, that, rather than being held captive himself, he may have traded in slaves. [1]
from the lead on undue weight grounds. There is no way this is important enough to be so prominent. Also, "historians" is an exaggeration as it derives from one paper by one historian, and his name is Flechner, not Fletcher. There may be room for this theory in the article somewhere, but not in the lead, and where to put it should be discussed here. Thoughts? -- Nicknack009 ( talk) 07:30, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
Granted a reference is given for the supposed Proto-Irish form "*Qatrikias," but what is the authority of this source? Patricius is obviously a Latin name adopted into Irish and Welsh long after the Q-Celtic/P-Celtic division (a division also present in Italic of which Latin like Irish was of the Q variety.) Now, Latin "Patricius" derives from the Latin, and ultimately Indo-European, word "Pater." If by chance the Proto-Irish language also had a similar name, the Proto-Irish would have kept or aspirated the initial Indo-European "p" of the word "pater" until the "p" disappeared and "pater" became "Athair" in modern Irish. Is this not correct? To it seems "*Qatrikias," should be removed, but I defer to students of Indo-European and Irish studies. Emmo827 ( talk) 12:36, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
The article notes that St. Patrick's day is observed as both a liturgical and non-liturgical holiday.
It would be far more sensible and clearer to say that St. Patrick's day is observed as both a religious and a secular holiday. There is nothing "liturgical" OR "non-liturgical" about green beer (or orange beer, if you're Presbyterian).
69.181.62.103 ( talk) 13:08, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
There is a city in Brazil named after him. São Patrício(St. Patrick in portuguese), in the state of Goiás. Source: google maps and wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A3o_Patr%C3%ADcio — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.1.137.207 ( talk) 07:31, 19 March 2013 (UTC) he is bave in ways — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.174.196.187 ( talk) 05:28, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
User:SnowWolf1013 has twice replaced the "background" section with the following:
He or she appears to be trying to make the "Background" section into a second lead, removing specific, cited information with another overview cited mainly to unscholarly sources. Anything valid in it is already covered elsewhere in the article. The rest of it is tendentious. Firm dates are unjustifiable. The name "Maewyn Succat" may be all over the internet, but it is nonsense. Patrick's father's name is misspelled and his mother's name is legendary. The stay at Tours is legendary, and many think it is a detail of Palladius' background that has been misapplied to Patrick's. And the bit about Patrick being "captured and enslaved by the Irish" is just horribly badly phrased, suggesting an entire nation did it.
It seems likely that this edit will just be restored, and I don't want to break the three revert rule, but at the same time I can't see anything in it that's worth keeping. Perhaps some other editors can step in. -- Nicknack009 ( talk) 13:15, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
[3]. Source cited says 493 not 492. Section on dates says 493 was the traditional date, IRWolfie- ( talk) 11:27, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
I've just looked up the source 'Treasures of early Irish art, 1500 B.C. to 1500 A.D' (currently footnote 97) given after the dimensions and weight of St Patrick's bell. The description appears on p143, and there's a photo of it on p136. However none of the dimensions given in the article appear in that description, nor does the weight. Does anyone have any idea where they might have come from? 91.135.11.161 ( talk) 19:02, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
Is there anything in this article that should be added: A Proposal for the Names of the Main Stations along the Antonine Wall Based on an identification of the Nemthur of St. Patrick [ [4]] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.14.206.26 ( talk) 22:39, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
This is what is stated in the article at the moment:
Tírechán writes
"I found four names for Patrick written in the book of Ultán, bishop of the tribe of Conchobar: holy Magonus (that is, "famous"); Succetus (that is, the god of war); Patricius (that is, father of the citizens); Cothirtiacus (because he served four houses of druids)."[57]
Muirchu records much the same information, adding that "[h]is mother was named Concessa."[58] The name Cothirtiacus, however, is simply the Latinized form of Old Irish Cothraige, which is the Q-Celtic form of Latin Patricius.[59]
_______________
By checking source 59 I found out that the name Cothirtiacus isn't spelled correctly in the article. In the book from 1920 ( White, Newport: "St. Patrick, His Writings and Life" (1920)) the spelling of "Cothirthiacus" is ok., while the WP-article is omitting the letter h. That letter however is important, both in Old Irish and in modern Irish.
In addition, I find the equating of "Cothirthiacus" and Old Irish "Cothraige" more than questionable.
See what
Tírechán actually wrote:
"1 (1) Inueni quattuor nomina in libro scripta Patricio apud Ultanum episcopum Conchuburnensium: sanctus Magonus, qui est clarus; Succetus, qui est <deus belli; Patricius, qui est> pater ciuium; Cothirthiacus, quia seruiuit quattuor domibus magorum;" (
"Tirechani collectanea de sancto Patricio").
English translation: 1(1) I have found four names for Patrick written in a book in the hands of Ultán, bishop of Connor: the saint (was named) Magonus, that is: famous, Succetus, that is: <god of war; Patricius, that is:> father of the citizens; Cothirthiacus, because he served four houses of druids; (
"Tirechani collectanea de sancto Patricio").
Tírechán translates the four names of Patrick as follows:
It makes not much sense to me why Tírechán who knew the Old Irish language very well,
should confuse Old Irish "Cothraige" (
Pádraig in modern Irish) with "Cothirthiacus".
If you compare modern Irish: ceithre theach - four houses with the latinized Old Irish form "Cothirthiacus"
than a translation of "Cothir-thiacus" with "quattuor domibus" (four houses) makes more sense to me.
In short, I do agree that Old Irish 'Cothraige' is the Q-Celtic form of Latin Patricius. I can't see, however, why Tírechán should cite Patrick's name twice: first in Latin and than in Old Irish, followed by a wrong translation, as the article states at the moment. -- 91.61.112.123 ( talk) 20:22, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Since the editor User:Rob984 seems only interested in edit-warring and adding St. Patrick's ethnic identity/nationality as "Romano-British" without any consensus or discussing it, I will open the dialogue here. First of all his usage of the term is not appropriate regarding one's ethnicity, identity or nationality, it is a generic term used to describe the culture of Britain which was under Roman influence, it is being applied here incorrectly, and as the editor should, know the question of identity in Ireland & Britain is a complex, divisive and sensitive topic even in historical terms, and the editor in question seems to be oblivious in that regard. Are we going to start calling King Arthur & Boudica Romano-British next? ( talk) 20:33, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
How about: "Saint Patrick was a 5th-century Christian missionary and bishop in Ireland who was originally from Post-Roman Britain. He is known as the "Apostle of Ireland", he is the primary patron saint of the island along with Saints Brigit and Columba."
We know he was a missionary and we know he was from Post-Roman Britain and we avoid making any assumptions about his ethnicity, cultural identity etc. Tyrsóg ( talk) 17:31, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
I'm not seeing how the article is improved with this . -- NeilN talk to me 19:28, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
I've read part of the huge amount of literature concerning Patrick over the years. I've come to the conclusion that all that can be known of him almost wholly resides in the two surviving letters he wrote. And as they make clear, he wasn't a very good writer (a point upon which Patrick himself is admirably clear). If anyone is interested, I would strongly advise them to read Edward Arthur Thompson's "Who was St. Patrick?". Everything else should be seen in the light of his conclusions. Fergananim ( talk) 22:42, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
I've also read the two surviving letters of Patrick, and there is no mention of the Vatican, of the Roman Catholic church, or of popes in them. Patrick's father was a deacon and his grandfather an elder in the local church in Bannavem Taburniae (in western Britain). From his writings Patrick's theology is clearly that of an evangelical Christian. He does not even once mention Mary or any saints, and encourages celibacy in unmarried persons (until marriage) which is in keeping with Biblical concepts of chastity. Later writers have often perjured in spurious biographies about him, attempting to link him with Catholic Rome, but this was and is not so. There is NO historical evidence to support these notions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.246.125.126 ( talk) 17:26, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
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"Catholic Church" should be capitalized (two places), because "Catholic Church" is a proper noun. JacquotFresne ( talk) 22:16, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
At this diff I have reverted a dubious reference to possible local traditions of Patrick preaching in mainland Scotland. To merit inclusion this would require a better reference and a consensus that it's of sufficient notability. I have also reverted an obviously off-topic comment on William Wallace. Richard Keatinge ( talk) 21:36, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
Should there be a section on popular culture? -- PhotographerTom ( talk) 02:00, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
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I hope I am doing this correctly, I am trying to post to the "Talk page", for St. Patrick. I am not just going ahead and adding any text to state that there is an opposing view that He was born in Scotland, and is not a Celtic, Briton. (There are also websites which claim his father was Iranian and his Mother was Scottish. This opens up the question, of heritage. If My parents are Polish, but i was born in Italy, what is my nationality? )
There are a huge amount of websites and books which contradict the Wiki page stating where he was born.
ABC News states that he was Scottish. http://abcnews.go.com/US/st-patricks-day-things/story?id=13157282 websites such as, http://www.irishcentral.com/news/scotland-now-claiming-irelands-patron-saint-patrick-as-one-of-their-own-198669501-237572211.html Outline the controversy.
Perhaps whom ever edits this page could add some text that at least states that there is an opposing theory of his birthplace.
Whom ever reads this "Talk" page, could you look into this suggestion.
I found out I can not "Sign in" since I have already typed this inquiry. I would have if I could. I am not a nut-job who likes to re-edit Wiki pages to pass on false information. I am a person who is aware that there are two schools of thought on his Birth place, and nationality. I think that it would be prudent, to include at least, a reference to the controversy. Thank You, Bernie — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.82.74.121 ( talk) 15:40, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
This article has become overly "Catholic" in its content, much too concerned with popes, bishops, and various related clerical bit-players of the Catholic tradition. It would be useful for us non-Catholics if someone would take the time to tell the world what Patrick actually did in Ireland. For example, the statement "St. Patrick is a patriotic symbol along with the colour green and the shamrock" may appeal to the green-beer drinking crowd, it's not particularly illuminating as encyclopedic content. There are some writers in the world that claim Patrick was a vigorous proponent of literacy. Now that would be an important part of a man's bio, likely more useful than the statement that "Patrick . . . has come to be revered as the patron saint of Ireland"? Santamoly ( talk) 16:08, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved per WP:COMMONNAME Mike Cline ( talk) 14:37, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
Saint Patrick →
Patrick of Ireland – To conform with
WP:NPOV,
WP:HONORIFIC,
WP:NCCL, especially
MOS:SAINTS. The current article title has a clear bias toward the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. Wikipedia is no place for bias. We should also consider the alternate title
Patrick (bishop).
Elizium23 (
talk)
01:28, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
This insertion was suggested earlier today. Any opinions? Samsara 11:29, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
Every reference to Christianity in this article is misnamed and ought rather to be Roman Catholicism, which bears no resemblance to true Christi following whatsoever. Gathol ( talk) 14:25, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
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St. Patrick was held in captivity until he was twenty. In this time he kept a diary and wrote many theories and quotes. Crthom1 ( talk) 18:17, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
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Patrick was not only a Christian missionary to Ireland, he was a BAPTIST missionary. Not many people know this, but if you search the records, there is proof :) Might be interesting to include a little-known fact. 24.229.182.8 ( talk) 20:39, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
Because of his legend, there are many accounts of this saint. It is generally accepted that he was kidnapped at age 14 (please see St. Patrick). Part of the problem is that his birthdate is uncertain and he is vital to different organizations and countries. I would be interested in hearing what other regular editors have to say about this. -- Morenooso ( talk) 04:33, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
In the box under patronage: I added "invoked" before "against snakes" otherwise it reads like it says "against" snakes AND the Melbourne archdiocese. It's still a bit awkward IMO. I tried to put the snakes bit after Melbourne but couldn't figure out how to do it. Ladycascadia ( talk) 16:46, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
I think the title of the page should be moved to St. Patrick or St Patrick instead of Saint. RCSprinter123 ( talk) 11:07, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
This portion of the article stands out strongly as being too long, too story-telling-like in its prose (too un-encyclopedic), and too slanted toward the Christian church's account of history (such as in lines like "the Druidism that held the nation captive").
Does the section add anything to the article, in terms of neutral and relevant knowledge? I'd advocate either paraphrasing it down considerably, or deleting the section outright.
Startswithj ( talk) 23:39, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
How about we revert that section to the version referred to by Angus? carl bunderson (talk) (contributions) 14:37, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
It's obvious that shamrocks are strictly related to St Patrick because of the wise use he gave them to teach the Trinity. However, it seems Irish people already considered them as a sacred symbol of life but also luck; that is, a kind of pagan talisman. And that is why, maybe, Irish people still use the phrase "Drowning The Shamrock" related to the custom of floating the shamrock on the top of whiskey before drinking it, because they believe that if you keep the custom, then you will have a prosperous year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Loli MG alumna ITE ( talk • contribs) 13:06, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
the harp is the symbol of ireland not the shamrock. But the shamrock is often used too becasuse of st. patrick.
According to the info box Saint Patrick was 106 years old when he died. Even with modern medicine that is exceedingly rare, and probably unheard of during the Dark Ages. Someone with knowledge needs to get to the bottom of that. ZincOrbie ( talk) 04:37, 17 March 2011 (UTC)
The Saint Patrick's name in the English language, was known in various other languages of that time in a number of variants. Among them the root of all these variations was the word-name "Patrikios" of ancient Greek origin. It is still used today in Greece, although infrequently. Also at the times of Saint Patrick's (i.e. 4th and 5th centuries A.D.), there was not any Roman Catholic Church in existence (long before the Schism). The Christian Faith was One, and in accordance with the Creed, which is still today read in the main Christian Churches (since the 4th century AD), the Church was "One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church" (the Greek word Catholic means "Universal"). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.165.195.91 ( talk) 00:47, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
Would the powers that be please mark this article for review/cleanup? The quality is poor. I have not made any changes.
My single greatest objection is the phrase in the second paragraph "from which come the only universally accepted details of his life". We live in a civilization where a round Earth and heliocentricity are not universally accepted today. This phrasing does not belong in any Wikipedia article.
The rest of the article jumbles up the conventional and revisionist accounts of his life, which is confusing. The conventional account may be apocryphal so this switching creates the impression that sections which describe the conventional tale are reasonably historical. I suggest a structure where the conventional details are presented together (with a caveat in the introduction) and then there is a discussion of the historicity of that account is discussed, then some rival theories. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Registar ( talk • contribs) 19:52, 17 March 2012 (UTC)
I have removed this bit:
"However, this interpretation of St. Patrick's time in Ireland has been challenged by historians who posit that it is more likely that St Patrick fled Britain to avoid the onerous job of tax collector. They also claim, without support from primary sources, that, rather than being held captive himself, he may have traded in slaves. [1]
from the lead on undue weight grounds. There is no way this is important enough to be so prominent. Also, "historians" is an exaggeration as it derives from one paper by one historian, and his name is Flechner, not Fletcher. There may be room for this theory in the article somewhere, but not in the lead, and where to put it should be discussed here. Thoughts? -- Nicknack009 ( talk) 07:30, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
Granted a reference is given for the supposed Proto-Irish form "*Qatrikias," but what is the authority of this source? Patricius is obviously a Latin name adopted into Irish and Welsh long after the Q-Celtic/P-Celtic division (a division also present in Italic of which Latin like Irish was of the Q variety.) Now, Latin "Patricius" derives from the Latin, and ultimately Indo-European, word "Pater." If by chance the Proto-Irish language also had a similar name, the Proto-Irish would have kept or aspirated the initial Indo-European "p" of the word "pater" until the "p" disappeared and "pater" became "Athair" in modern Irish. Is this not correct? To it seems "*Qatrikias," should be removed, but I defer to students of Indo-European and Irish studies. Emmo827 ( talk) 12:36, 15 March 2013 (UTC)
The article notes that St. Patrick's day is observed as both a liturgical and non-liturgical holiday.
It would be far more sensible and clearer to say that St. Patrick's day is observed as both a religious and a secular holiday. There is nothing "liturgical" OR "non-liturgical" about green beer (or orange beer, if you're Presbyterian).
69.181.62.103 ( talk) 13:08, 17 March 2013 (UTC)
There is a city in Brazil named after him. São Patrício(St. Patrick in portuguese), in the state of Goiás. Source: google maps and wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A3o_Patr%C3%ADcio — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.1.137.207 ( talk) 07:31, 19 March 2013 (UTC) he is bave in ways — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.174.196.187 ( talk) 05:28, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
User:SnowWolf1013 has twice replaced the "background" section with the following:
He or she appears to be trying to make the "Background" section into a second lead, removing specific, cited information with another overview cited mainly to unscholarly sources. Anything valid in it is already covered elsewhere in the article. The rest of it is tendentious. Firm dates are unjustifiable. The name "Maewyn Succat" may be all over the internet, but it is nonsense. Patrick's father's name is misspelled and his mother's name is legendary. The stay at Tours is legendary, and many think it is a detail of Palladius' background that has been misapplied to Patrick's. And the bit about Patrick being "captured and enslaved by the Irish" is just horribly badly phrased, suggesting an entire nation did it.
It seems likely that this edit will just be restored, and I don't want to break the three revert rule, but at the same time I can't see anything in it that's worth keeping. Perhaps some other editors can step in. -- Nicknack009 ( talk) 13:15, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
[3]. Source cited says 493 not 492. Section on dates says 493 was the traditional date, IRWolfie- ( talk) 11:27, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
I've just looked up the source 'Treasures of early Irish art, 1500 B.C. to 1500 A.D' (currently footnote 97) given after the dimensions and weight of St Patrick's bell. The description appears on p143, and there's a photo of it on p136. However none of the dimensions given in the article appear in that description, nor does the weight. Does anyone have any idea where they might have come from? 91.135.11.161 ( talk) 19:02, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
Is there anything in this article that should be added: A Proposal for the Names of the Main Stations along the Antonine Wall Based on an identification of the Nemthur of St. Patrick [ [4]] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.14.206.26 ( talk) 22:39, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
This is what is stated in the article at the moment:
Tírechán writes
"I found four names for Patrick written in the book of Ultán, bishop of the tribe of Conchobar: holy Magonus (that is, "famous"); Succetus (that is, the god of war); Patricius (that is, father of the citizens); Cothirtiacus (because he served four houses of druids)."[57]
Muirchu records much the same information, adding that "[h]is mother was named Concessa."[58] The name Cothirtiacus, however, is simply the Latinized form of Old Irish Cothraige, which is the Q-Celtic form of Latin Patricius.[59]
_______________
By checking source 59 I found out that the name Cothirtiacus isn't spelled correctly in the article. In the book from 1920 ( White, Newport: "St. Patrick, His Writings and Life" (1920)) the spelling of "Cothirthiacus" is ok., while the WP-article is omitting the letter h. That letter however is important, both in Old Irish and in modern Irish.
In addition, I find the equating of "Cothirthiacus" and Old Irish "Cothraige" more than questionable.
See what
Tírechán actually wrote:
"1 (1) Inueni quattuor nomina in libro scripta Patricio apud Ultanum episcopum Conchuburnensium: sanctus Magonus, qui est clarus; Succetus, qui est <deus belli; Patricius, qui est> pater ciuium; Cothirthiacus, quia seruiuit quattuor domibus magorum;" (
"Tirechani collectanea de sancto Patricio").
English translation: 1(1) I have found four names for Patrick written in a book in the hands of Ultán, bishop of Connor: the saint (was named) Magonus, that is: famous, Succetus, that is: <god of war; Patricius, that is:> father of the citizens; Cothirthiacus, because he served four houses of druids; (
"Tirechani collectanea de sancto Patricio").
Tírechán translates the four names of Patrick as follows:
It makes not much sense to me why Tírechán who knew the Old Irish language very well,
should confuse Old Irish "Cothraige" (
Pádraig in modern Irish) with "Cothirthiacus".
If you compare modern Irish: ceithre theach - four houses with the latinized Old Irish form "Cothirthiacus"
than a translation of "Cothir-thiacus" with "quattuor domibus" (four houses) makes more sense to me.
In short, I do agree that Old Irish 'Cothraige' is the Q-Celtic form of Latin Patricius. I can't see, however, why Tírechán should cite Patrick's name twice: first in Latin and than in Old Irish, followed by a wrong translation, as the article states at the moment. -- 91.61.112.123 ( talk) 20:22, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Since the editor User:Rob984 seems only interested in edit-warring and adding St. Patrick's ethnic identity/nationality as "Romano-British" without any consensus or discussing it, I will open the dialogue here. First of all his usage of the term is not appropriate regarding one's ethnicity, identity or nationality, it is a generic term used to describe the culture of Britain which was under Roman influence, it is being applied here incorrectly, and as the editor should, know the question of identity in Ireland & Britain is a complex, divisive and sensitive topic even in historical terms, and the editor in question seems to be oblivious in that regard. Are we going to start calling King Arthur & Boudica Romano-British next? ( talk) 20:33, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
How about: "Saint Patrick was a 5th-century Christian missionary and bishop in Ireland who was originally from Post-Roman Britain. He is known as the "Apostle of Ireland", he is the primary patron saint of the island along with Saints Brigit and Columba."
We know he was a missionary and we know he was from Post-Roman Britain and we avoid making any assumptions about his ethnicity, cultural identity etc. Tyrsóg ( talk) 17:31, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
I'm not seeing how the article is improved with this . -- NeilN talk to me 19:28, 15 March 2014 (UTC)
I've read part of the huge amount of literature concerning Patrick over the years. I've come to the conclusion that all that can be known of him almost wholly resides in the two surviving letters he wrote. And as they make clear, he wasn't a very good writer (a point upon which Patrick himself is admirably clear). If anyone is interested, I would strongly advise them to read Edward Arthur Thompson's "Who was St. Patrick?". Everything else should be seen in the light of his conclusions. Fergananim ( talk) 22:42, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
I've also read the two surviving letters of Patrick, and there is no mention of the Vatican, of the Roman Catholic church, or of popes in them. Patrick's father was a deacon and his grandfather an elder in the local church in Bannavem Taburniae (in western Britain). From his writings Patrick's theology is clearly that of an evangelical Christian. He does not even once mention Mary or any saints, and encourages celibacy in unmarried persons (until marriage) which is in keeping with Biblical concepts of chastity. Later writers have often perjured in spurious biographies about him, attempting to link him with Catholic Rome, but this was and is not so. There is NO historical evidence to support these notions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.246.125.126 ( talk) 17:26, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
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"Catholic Church" should be capitalized (two places), because "Catholic Church" is a proper noun. JacquotFresne ( talk) 22:16, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
At this diff I have reverted a dubious reference to possible local traditions of Patrick preaching in mainland Scotland. To merit inclusion this would require a better reference and a consensus that it's of sufficient notability. I have also reverted an obviously off-topic comment on William Wallace. Richard Keatinge ( talk) 21:36, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
Should there be a section on popular culture? -- PhotographerTom ( talk) 02:00, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
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I hope I am doing this correctly, I am trying to post to the "Talk page", for St. Patrick. I am not just going ahead and adding any text to state that there is an opposing view that He was born in Scotland, and is not a Celtic, Briton. (There are also websites which claim his father was Iranian and his Mother was Scottish. This opens up the question, of heritage. If My parents are Polish, but i was born in Italy, what is my nationality? )
There are a huge amount of websites and books which contradict the Wiki page stating where he was born.
ABC News states that he was Scottish. http://abcnews.go.com/US/st-patricks-day-things/story?id=13157282 websites such as, http://www.irishcentral.com/news/scotland-now-claiming-irelands-patron-saint-patrick-as-one-of-their-own-198669501-237572211.html Outline the controversy.
Perhaps whom ever edits this page could add some text that at least states that there is an opposing theory of his birthplace.
Whom ever reads this "Talk" page, could you look into this suggestion.
I found out I can not "Sign in" since I have already typed this inquiry. I would have if I could. I am not a nut-job who likes to re-edit Wiki pages to pass on false information. I am a person who is aware that there are two schools of thought on his Birth place, and nationality. I think that it would be prudent, to include at least, a reference to the controversy. Thank You, Bernie — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.82.74.121 ( talk) 15:40, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
This article has become overly "Catholic" in its content, much too concerned with popes, bishops, and various related clerical bit-players of the Catholic tradition. It would be useful for us non-Catholics if someone would take the time to tell the world what Patrick actually did in Ireland. For example, the statement "St. Patrick is a patriotic symbol along with the colour green and the shamrock" may appeal to the green-beer drinking crowd, it's not particularly illuminating as encyclopedic content. There are some writers in the world that claim Patrick was a vigorous proponent of literacy. Now that would be an important part of a man's bio, likely more useful than the statement that "Patrick . . . has come to be revered as the patron saint of Ireland"? Santamoly ( talk) 16:08, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved per WP:COMMONNAME Mike Cline ( talk) 14:37, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
Saint Patrick →
Patrick of Ireland – To conform with
WP:NPOV,
WP:HONORIFIC,
WP:NCCL, especially
MOS:SAINTS. The current article title has a clear bias toward the Catholic and Orthodox Churches. Wikipedia is no place for bias. We should also consider the alternate title
Patrick (bishop).
Elizium23 (
talk)
01:28, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
This insertion was suggested earlier today. Any opinions? Samsara 11:29, 3 December 2016 (UTC)
Every reference to Christianity in this article is misnamed and ought rather to be Roman Catholicism, which bears no resemblance to true Christi following whatsoever. Gathol ( talk) 14:25, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
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St. Patrick was held in captivity until he was twenty. In this time he kept a diary and wrote many theories and quotes. Crthom1 ( talk) 18:17, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
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Patrick was not only a Christian missionary to Ireland, he was a BAPTIST missionary. Not many people know this, but if you search the records, there is proof :) Might be interesting to include a little-known fact. 24.229.182.8 ( talk) 20:39, 17 March 2017 (UTC)