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![]() | There is a request, submitted by WikiHmmmm... ( talk), for an audio version of this article to be created. For further information, see WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia. The rationale behind the request is: "The patron saint of over 200mil people, therefore a very important historical and religous figure". |
"Reportedly" is used about a dozen times too many. This article reads like a 10th-grade research paper.
The alleged legendary aspects of the reported history of George apparently are not recorded in this probable entry. Why not? Saint George as it currently stands suppresses all the miraculous elements that were the actual basis for the historical George cult, so popular and widespread in medieval times. The alleged entry reportedly reports only those selected elements of the George legend that might pass for actual history. Some might possibly allege that this is misleading, and not up to Wikipedia's NPOV standards. Wetman 08:31, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)
What if the dragon is just a synonim for like an army or something? And the folks just used it to shorten the 'Hey dude George defated the huge army of the someguys in combat!' to 'hey George killed a dragon!Hehe COOL!' That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Andy
Actually, many hold the view that the said ‘dragon’ was indeed a metaphor for Islamic hordes. St. George was a Christian Saint because he (the arm under his control) slaughtered the Islamic Dragon so to speak. I also agree that the word 'reportedly' is used too often.
One theory of St. George,which explains why he is so widely revered, is that he is Horus and the Romans turned him into a saint to appease the followers of Horus. Horus slays a dragon, Seth. One very good representation of this is in the Louvre Museum, a carving of Horus riding a horse and slaying a dragon: http://www.louvre.fr/en/oeuvre-notices/horus-horseback This article starts with a reference to a book written by a Sun newspaper journalist which is not peer reviewed. As such, the suggested history of George does not meet Wikipedia standards and should be removed unless historical sources can be found. The article should be rewritten with appropriate references to historical sources which are contemporaneous, not to a jingoistic "hooray Henry" boys' book. Burdenedwithtruth ( talk) 17:26, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
Historians have argued the exact details of the birth of Saint George for over a century, although the approximate date of his death is subject to little debate. [1] [2] The 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia takes the position that there seems to be no ground for doubting the historical existence of Saint George, but that little faith can be placed in some of the fanciful stories about him. [3]
The work of the Bollandists Daniel Papebroch, Jean Bolland, and Godfrey Henschen in the 17th century was one of the first pieces of scholarly research to establish the historicity of the saint's existence via their publications in Bibliotheca Hagiographica Graeca and paved the way for other scholars to dismiss the medieval legends. [4] [5] Pope Gelasius stated that George was among those saints "whose names are justly reverenced among men, but whose actions are known only to God." [6]
Apart from what seems to begin with 5th-century folklore, most reference books relate that there are no contemporary or other historical documents relating to St George. There are no modern reference encyclopedias or other historical works which refer to St. George other than as a legendary character and you cannot impose your view on this page on the basis of religious writings. If you revert this again I will ask that this be referred to arbitration Burdenedwithtruth ( talk) 20:26, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
References
In the canon of Pope Gelasius (494) George is mentioned in a list of those 'whose names are justly reverenced among men, but whose acts are known only to God'
Edward Gibbon was of the opinion that the original man on whom the legend was based was not quite so holy. He states, quite confidently, that during the Arian controversy, when the Arians had the upper hand in the battle to define the doctrine of the church, Athanasius, bishop of Alexandria, was sticking to his anti-arian guns and making waves. He was thrown out by the powers that be and replaced by the Arian George of Cappadocia who Gibbon portrays as a money-grabbing, power hungry thug. Although he was unpopular with everyone it was the pagan residents of the city who rose up against him when they were encouraged by hearing that they had a pagan emperor in Julian the Apostate (as he is now known). Being killed by pagans meant that he was a martyr and his behaviour while alive was forgotten.
All of this may of course be rubbish - Gibbon may be a great and influential historian but his word is not gospel truth. So does anyone know if this version has any sources to back it up or was it nonsense which has been debunked over the last two centuries. -- Spondoolicks 21:10, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Athanasius was replaced by a Gregory of Cappadocia who does not have his own article yet. Gibbon had apparently confused the two Cappadocians. User:Dimadick
St. George is also honored in the Muslim world under the name Al-Khidr.
Please could "superdude99" explain why my contribution regarding Ken Livingstone's refusal to allow a St. George's celebration in London has been deleted twice. This has been widely reported in the British press (both The Times and The Telegraph have given details) and I have written to the Mayor himself about it, not that he ever bothered to reply. It seems to me to be both a relevant and accurate addition.
Mr Ken Livingstone, is a member of si-pac a communist secret society,one of this societies aims is to undermine the Christian and Muslem faiths by any means possible, He (Ken) hates muslims and St George is highly venerated in Palistine and amoungst the Coptic peoples of Eygpt. He would no doubt rather flay himself than see the people he dispises so much enjop their patron Saints day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.3.64 ( talk) 17:50, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
The paragraph is portraying the Mayor of London in a biased light.
"In recent years demands" - who is demanding?
"have been turned down by the London Mayor" - I appreciate that you have tried contacting the Mayor to find an answer but without knowing the full story it is a far stretch to say that he personally turned it down. And if he did then I would suggest finding a reference of him doing so.
So I have amended the paragraph to remove both the reference to St Patrick (what conclusion is to be drawn from London celebrating one particular patron saint to another?) and to the current mayor (due to the reasons provided above). The only factual and relevant information that we can include here is that London does not currently celebrate this crazy saints day. -- NHawes 12:12, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
How exactly is London supposed to celebrate St. George's Day? The day isn't a public holiday anywhere in theUK- surely it would be up to the government in Westminster to declare the day a Bank Holiday and then let various municipalities hold some sort of celebration if they wanted to. The idea of Ken Livingstone, or any London mayor, having a big parade going along by the Thames on a working week day is ridiculous. And how would we even celebrate St. George's day? Are there any traditions associated with the day? Is there a history of celebrations? Or is this just some silly attempt by hysterical journalists to create a story and blabber on about "politcally correct" attacks on British values?
I have the gravest doubt regarding the text here: "On June 2 1893, Pope Leo XIII demoted St George as Patron Saint for the English, relegating him to the secondary rank of 'national protector' and replaced him with St Peter as the Patron Saint of England. The change was solemnly announced by Cardinal Herbert Vaughan in the Brompton Oratory. This papal pronouncement served to exclude the Catholic Church in England from a day which is part of English tradition". I can't find any external verification for it. JohnHarris 10:42, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
I am deleting a sample image on this page. It is a sample image and unneeded.-- Matt D 00:28, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
An anon changed the link in the info box from Palestine to Israel. [1] I have decided to revert back since at the time this person existed, this area was called "Palaestina". — TheKMan talk 01:17, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
What happened to the section about what actually happened during his life.
Palestine was the Roman name for Judea as of 135AD. The Jews never used the name Palestine until it was invoked by the British in 1917. In 1964 the Arabs west of the Jordan river became the 'Palestinians' thanks to the KGB giving the notion to Arafat. So St George would have been a Judean, not an Israeli. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.30.24.87 ( talk) 18:03, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
I changed "now in Palestine- Israel" to Israel only. It says "now in ...", and now it's in Israel. What it was on ancient times, and what some would want it to be in the future, is irrelevant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.229.251.117 ( talk) 15:04, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
He was named Athanasius (Αθανάσιος ο Μάγος) and he wasn't exactly a priest. One can check the synaxari or The Passion of St. George from patron saints index: St George. talk to +MATIA 09:44, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
Saint George is the patron of Catalonia as you can read in the article. The feast in Catalonia is to be the national day of lovers (like Valentine's day) but, recently, is being forgotten because of the international celebration of the 14th of February and because the same 23 of April is the UNESCO International day of Book and copyright. On that, it should be added that also Inca Garcilaso de la Vega and Josep Pla died that same day, although the last one died on 1981 and not on 1616 like Shakespeare, Cervantes and the first one. In Catalonia, the legend tells that from the blood of the dragon grew a red rose which he gave to the princess, and that's why in Catalonia men give red roses to women. People give books to each other because of the International day of Book, but not because of Saint George's day. And, if I am not wrong, we do not say he cut the dragon's head off but he sticked his lancein his heart.
Wasn't there also another George who was matryed trying to aid Paul's escape from Damascus? I'm pretty sure that there were other St. George's in antiquity, as well as others more recent than the current one. If there are, I'll be happy to make a dismabiguation. Let me know on my talk page...-- V. Joe 07:51, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
The introduction looked very small in comparison to most other articles, so I added a bit. I've also added a line that says "The flag of Saint George is now probably most visible when flown by supporters of England sporting teams." but I'm fairly sure that will be controversial. Maybe it shouldn't be there, but I think it's true. Kayman1uk 09:05, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
"A comic book, Aliens vs. Predator Annual #1, retold the story with the "dragon" of the legend revealed to be a Yautja, or Predator."
I've removed this as it's really nothing to do with the saint. I'll be kind and move it to the article George and the Dragon. Kayman1uk 09:05, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, I'm going to continue summarising edits here even if no-one else wants to any more. Given that George seems to have an astonishingly wide range of patronage, it's worth drawing attention to that diverse group in the intro.
For what it's worth, I think the recent edits have dramatically improved the page, particularly the side-bar. Kayman1uk 11:10, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Given that there is a main page dedicated to George and the Dragon, the amount of space dedicated to analysis of the story/myth/allegory here seemed excessive. I've thinned out that section considerably.
I accept that a significant amount of effort was put into this section by several people, and I would encourage them to merge their work into the relevant page, rather than lose it.
The approach I took to eliminating sentences was essentially (and completely subjectively) to keep what I thought were the most common/accessible references e.g. I kept Greek myths over Germanic and Indian ones, simply because the Greek ones tend to have filtered through into the English language a bit more. Let's discuss. Kayman1uk 12:31, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Someone written down on this section and I qoute "And he smells like a big ball of poo."
As many countries and cities have George as patron saint, I deleted the three that were mentioned in the lead, for NPOV. -- Matthead 21:15, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I see St George is given as the patron saint of Greece. Can you explain? As the Greek flag uses the Cross of St Andrew, who I assume is their patron saint. I was informed that this St Andrew is the same one as Scotland uses. Bettybutt ( talk) 04:19, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
The only ref that contained the name STIHDJIA for the dragon that I could find that was not just a copy of this article on another site was
http://www.alamy.com/stock_photography/1/1/Adrian+Sherratt/AP1WH9.html
It was part of a list unattached to prose, likely put there to attact search-engines. I don't think this qualifies as confirmation. I'm skeptical on the name with this lack of refs. I'll keep looking.
There is no name given to the dragon anywhere on the web or in any of the books in Google books. There are lots of mirrored versions copying this article on the web and it looks like the only people naming this dragon is whoever first claimed its name was Stihdjia on this page. In essence this wikipedia article is inventing a name instead of encyclopedicly reporting a name. There is no source claiming this name anywhere, so asserting the name is Stihdjia is as frivilous as naming it Godzilla.-- Wowaconia 20:11, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
This article has it backwards, so I am modifying it.
Our parenting website has two articles on St George that I'd like to place links to from this page. One has facts about St George and his origins http://www.raisingkids.co.uk/fea/fea140_stgeorge.asp
The other page features traditional English recipes families could cook to celebrate St George's Day http://www.raisingkids.co.uk/fea/fea109_stgeorgesday.asp
I think both are relevant and useful, but wanted to put the links up for discussion before I added them. Rkeditor 08:35, 19 April 2007 (UTC)''''
I have deleted the unsourced, unwikified personal essay that was anonymously entered. Much of it is already in the article, and the potted hisory notes are irrelevant to George and treated in their own Wikipedia articles. Please look at the [ deleted text here] and see whether there is anything that can be given a source and added back to the article. -- Wetman 18:37, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure that St George is the patron saint of Canada; I thought that he was some French dude, but I may be wrong. Any ideas? Poojean 16:16, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm not russian, but I know that "St George killing the dragoon" is featured on Moscow's emblem (very similar to the icon from Novgorod added in the article). The latter is itself featured in the Russian Federation's one, as St George is Patron Saint of both Russia and its capital city.
In the Serbian Orthodox Church St. George is a Patron Saint of many families and has many churches and monastaries named after him. Serbia should be mentioned in this article.
24.150.77.3 18:08, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
Dear Jordan, Today is the Slava of Saint George in Serbia, by the Orthodox church calendar. Can you please make the Serbia at least a link in the first paragraph? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.172.242.134 ( talk) 08:27, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
Whoever started the FAC process, did not carry it through. It is not listed at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast 12:41, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
This article hasn't received a GA review yet. Should do this before FA. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast 12:43, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
I've copied the following QA from the Humanities Reference Desk. Please note in particular the concerns over the contention that St. George was 'replaced' as the patron saint of England by the Pope in 1893. A citation request was put against this assertion, though no response has been forthcoming to date. Does anyone have a legitimate source here? I intend to leave this for a day or two, and if nothing is forthcoming I think it best if I remove the point altogether. Clio the Muse 22:30, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
What is the background to the cult of St. George? Tower Raven 18:51, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
→Was not Edmund the Martyr the Patron saint of England, rather than Edward the Confessor anyway? Johnny Cyprus ( talk) 07:32, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
There aren't enough sources. Alientraveller 14:39, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
San Giorgio (St.George) is also the patron saint of the italian city of Ferrara, where the former 10th century cathedral and the splendid new 12th century basilique cathedral were built and named after Him.
-- MosMaiorum 02:50, 17 October 2007
Whose idea was it to add Deptford to the list of countries (or at least historically autonomous regions) of whom G is patron saint? 82.40.237.89 ( talk) 16:20, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
Image:SVH06 2.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 07:17, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
How can jews consider that Elijah is buried there if Elijah is said to have been taken away to heaven in a chariot?
since when did religion have to make sense? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.30.174 ( talk) 04:45, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh yeah, cower in anonymity. That's a pointless and malicious thing to say. This page isn't for a debates on the merits of religion. Go to yahoo answers for that. Amulekii ( talk) 00:51, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
Some sources put his birth place as Coventry (mostly English ballads), however others put it as Cappadocia (notably, The Golden Legend), where his father came from.
I've edited to include the ambiguity over his birthplace, as there is probably at least as much weight toward it being Cappadocia than Coventry, and the Golden Legend is quite a notable version of the St George legend. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.30.174 ( talk) 05:12, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
This article lacks sources for the information provided. Diocletian is mentioned as the factor behind Georges death, which is unproven. There are no hard facts as to when George lived, and where he was born, or even what his actual name was. This article should be labled as such. Nathraq ( talk) 16:58, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
St. George is also the name of a 250-year-old church in Sottrum, Germany. The Althaus, or town hall, has historical information that cites this George as the same dragon-killing Christian man who saved a princess. Inside the stone church there is a wooden knight depicting St. George and, on the wall, there are mother-of-pearl laden wooden statues of George and the dragon. Sottrum, founded in 1290, should also be listed as one of St. George's sites. (There are two others in the Lower Saxony area.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sultanarose ( talk • contribs) 20:21, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
St. George is also the name of a 800-year-old church in Sottrum, Germany. The Althaus, or town hall, has historical information that cites this George as the same dragon-killing Christian man who saved a princess. Inside the stone church there is a wooden knight depicting St. George and, on the wall, there are mother-of-pearl laden wooden statues of George and the dragon. Sottrum, founded in 1205, should also be listed as one of St. George's sites. (There are two others in the Lower Saxony area.) This Sopttrum story, however has one difference. The dragon interfered when the church was being built. St. George slayed him. So, perhaps he saved a church and a princess. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sultanarose ( talk • contribs) 21:07, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
This title has been returned to Saint George, as the title that the normally well-prepared Wikipedia reader will search. The attempted title "George of Lydda" knowingly inserts a spurious air of historicity, to give this legendary archetype an underserved aura of historical reality. -- Wetman ( talk) 19:55, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
I don't know how reliable this is, but in Scanderbeg: From Ottoman Captive to Albanian Hero, it sates: " Scanderbeg himself vouchsafed a vision that had come to him: St. George, the Christian warrior and the patron saint of Albania, had personally presented him with a flaming sword to destroy the enemies of true religion." This was probably taken from Marin Barleti, an Albanian clergyman who wrote a biography about Scanderbeg. -- Gaius Claudius Nero ( talk) 19:21, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
If George made it into his "late 20s" before his promotion and the events of 302 AD, how could he be born any later than 276? The date of death seems so certain, how could 285 be remotely plausible as a birth-year? 63.88.67.230 ( talk) 01:08, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
All sections of this article are coming to be supported by citations, with the exception of the "biography", which is replete with details, even dates, to give it verisimilitude. This is not the miracle-filled account from Legenda Aurea. Where is it from? I have not peppered the text with demands for facts and citations, as I find that behavior distasteful. But anyone who can support any "historical" detail with a citation would improve this ambitious but weak section. -- Wetman ( talk) 05:13, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
I added a few refs, but elsewhere this article has many statements and assertions, and many church names that are not verifiable. Unless there are good suggestions otherwise, I will clean up a few of the "I guess it might be true" unsupported items in a day or two. Cheers History2007 ( talk)
"Cannot be considered a historic individual" seems a bit strong, particularly given that there are all sorts of historic claims made about him later in the article. If the Catholic Encyclopedia says there is no ground for doubting his historic existence, then I doubt that a bald claim of non-historicity can be NPOV. The citation for his non-historicity is merely that he was omitted from another encyclopedia, which scarcely seems overwhelming. I would suggest altering to something like, "His historicity is disputed" or "There is ongoing debate about whether there was a real George behind the accumulated legends."
Also, there seems to be a contradiction in this section between, "St George is not commerated in any early vita or acta" and "synthesised from early and late hagiographical sources". Are there early hagiographical sources or not?
81.154.183.79 ( talk) 09:51, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
I've also noticed that the no early acta claim is contradicted by the "Sources" section, unless "early" is intended to mean before 5th century. It seems to me that "Life and legend" section requires substantial editting.
81.154.183.79 ( talk) 10:01, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
It says "St. George to be considered, as suggested by Gibbon, Vetter, and others, a legendary double of the disreputable bishop, George of Cappadocia,"
Now its really irrelevant what it concludes, even ignoring whether its a biased source, for what it does most definitely state is that these scholars, including 'others', did take this view, so it can be the cite for that.
But, it does actually state that although it rejects the above identification, "it is not improbable that the apocryphal Acts have borrowed some incidents from the story of the Arian bishop". (The 'apocryphal acts' are the Acta Sanctii Georgii, on which later accounts of his life is based). In other words the Catholic encyclopedia argues that its plausible for "some incidents" to derive from George of Cappodocia (the Arian bishop in question).
Hence citing Gibbon for "in whole" and Catholic Encyclopedia for "in part" is entirely valid. Anthony on Stilts ( talk) 04:05, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Also, from the Edward Gibbon article,
and later
and
So really, its quite an important text, the comments of which should be mentioned. Anthony on Stilts ( talk) 04:13, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
If we are going to claim that a source is invalidated by being more than 200 years old, we'd best delete all direct references to the Bible from Wikipedia, as well as all quotes from Jerome, Eusebius, and the Acta Sanctii Georgii themselves. If you check wikipedia:Reliable Sources there's definitely no date criteria.
Here's a fuller quote by Stephens, in the Dictionary of National Biography - a similarly respected work, still updated (and this quote is still there, even in the 2004 edition) - about the view of Gibbon's book
The fact that its a nearly unanimous view, and the text is called 'definitive', really should be viewed as indicating the worth of the text, and the ability to cite from it in the article. Anthony on Stilts ( talk) 13:39, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
And I also feel a very good explanation is owed for deleting the details about Tyrannius Rufinus (4th century historian) and Theodotus of Ancyra (5th century bishop) - near contemporaries of either George. Anthony on Stilts ( talk) 13:41, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Johnbod ( talk) 14:04, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
The Saint's name is Greek. It is Georgios and not 'George'. No remark is made on this. The name of the Saint's father is Greek and he was a Greek serving Roman army, not a Roman. His name was Gerontios and not 'Geronizio'. No Remark is made on this. The name of the Saint's mother is Greek: Polychronia. So we have three individuals all with Greek names. What a coincidence but no worth commenting according to the authors of this article. His mother was from Palaestine (another Greek name)- not Palestine. The Palaestinians are originaly from Crete in Greece. In many modern historical articles (including wikipedia articles) the historical person's biography has no reference to his ethnic origin. They avoid it. Especially if it's Greek. Even if his name is Greek and his parents' name's are Greek then they will avoid it even more. You really have to dig in such articles to see what is the ethnic origin of those persons. And even then you dont find it because it isn't there. I guess it is more important to mention the ethic background of someone that met Saint George rather than mention the ethnic background of the Saint himself. But what are they going to say? That the patron Saint of all those countries is Greek? Noway. They're going to be unclear by saying: "a roman soldier according to tradition" (but not mentioning his Greek origin), "mother from Palestine" (rather than a Palestinian or a Greek woman with a Greek name from the area of Palestine in which the Greek colonies (and not English or Bulgarian) were multiple. On top of that do not mention Greek Orthodox tradition or Greece in the list of countries. And there you have it. Instead they mention Bulgaria. The Bulgarians were made Christians by the Byzantine Greeks. And then they mention India and Brazil! Next thing they're going to mention China as the fellow commentator said before me. Or as the other fellow asked above about his origins but noone answered to him. Kassos ( talk) 22:15, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Although Genoa's flag is St. George's Cross, its patron Saint is St. John the Baptist. I know it's weird but consider also that Genoa's Cathedral is dedicated to St. Lawrence and the Virgin Mary was adopted as Queen in the Middle Ages. 92.60.35.2 ( talk) 09:39, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
-More provided on request.
This really is an unprecedented level of harassment directed at contributors trying to improve the quality of an embarassingly deficient article, I must say...! Let's try hard to envision what a "good article" would look like. Would a complete, high class article not, sooner or later, have to include all the relevant info from all the relevant sources - such as what most of them call his parents names? Do we have to fight tooth-and-nail to avoid resembling anything like what all the real-world sources out there have on this subject? What a joke ROFLOL —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.105.41.97 ( talk) 21:11, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
An IP removed the term Palestine, saying that it is obsolete. I personally have no political views on Isreal vs Palestine but that deletion is clearly a POV political statement. I did a web search and Jimmy Carter wrote a book with Palestine in the title about year ago. So it is not obsolete. History2007 ( talk) 17:07, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
As is the section on patronage is dominating the article now and MOST of the entries are reference free. And many of the entries are churches that need to go to the Church page. I suggest moving it to a new page called Patronages of Saint George, for this article is about the saint, not geography. Unless there are good reasons not to, I will do that later. History2007 ( talk) 10:57, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Ok, maybe we can try this:
I do not know of another patronage page, but we can be the first to do it. Why not? Anyway, what do you think? History2007 ( talk) 14:22, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
The British Eddas written by L.A Waddell convincingly argues that St George is none other than King Arthur and Thor and Indara of the Indo-Aryans. Ar-thur is synonymous with Herr-Thor. In-Dara synonymous with K(in)g Dar..ie lord Thor ie Ar-thor. Goer or Geir is the name of his hammer which he always carried(mace, or spear) an epithet of Thor of ancient times used everywhere from German folk lore to the Hittites and Sumerians. Gar is Proto Indo-european for mace/weapon. The Eddas appears to be the best surviving story of George/Thor, it is uncorrupted as happened to the Greek/Latin/Hindu/Egyptian versions of George/Thor. In essence George/Thor was an indo-european coloniser of Asian Minor he fought and defeated the Chaldean's ,led by queen Frigge/El who was head of the Serpent cult. When he slew her with his mace(Goer) the myth of George slaying the reptilian dragon was born. Bas Reliefs and ancient seals abound in Asia Minor containing pictures of George/Thor slaying Snakes/Dragons/crocodiles. George carried a red cross in his one hand, the symbol of his Sun religion. The Sun Cross predates christianity by thousands of years. It is unfortunately the cross and George's latter depiction on a horse with a lance which has confused historians into thinking he is recently post christian which he most certainly is not and is probably the first recorded figure in human history, hence his fame in vastly differing places. Christian missionaries in the 1st millenium are well documented as destroying all "pagan" references to George (books and stone carvings). Fortunately there are some that have survived and his story can be rebuilt. The Phoenician version of George dating to around 800BC has him on a horse with a Lance and his cross. Even this version is 2000 years after his existance around 3300BC. Its believe to have been brought to Britain by the Phoenicians which is why we have that version of him.-- 92.4.47.139 ( talk) 16:05, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
Many people may not know what 'Patronages of Saint George' means, and therefore it'd be nice if somebody went and gave the readers a brief definition next to the phrase. makeswell ( talk) 03:17, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
I was wondering whether a picture of Pistrucci's St. George and the Dragon design should be included in some section. Especially seeing as it has been on the British coins since c.1816 [albeit now only on non-circulating issues]. It is also probably the most widely recognised picture of St. George for the British population. (esp. for the middle-aged generations due to the festival of britain crown in 1951). I feel coin designs are relevant. Many nations depict their core/historical values on coins. any thoughts?? Wuku ( talk) 12:58, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
In some icons such as the one shown here or this bulgarian Orthodox or this Ethiopian church mural a small person is shown riding behind St. George. It is almost certainly not meant to be a child but follows a convention of using size to indicate importance - note the maiden at bottom left. Who is this person? And why is the saint almost invariably depicted riding from left to right? — RHaworth ( talk · contribs) 14:26, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
Since the definition of 'pagan' is: "a person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main world religions." To use it to denote the roman belief system of the time is quite inappropriate and confusing I would say. When for instance it says: "every Christian soldier in the army should be arrested and every other soldier should offer a sacrifice to the Pagan gods" it leaves me in confusion what is meant with 'pagan gods'. (and don't understand why the word pagan is capitalized either, but that's another matter). And the various other times the word 'pagan' is used it also is unclear as to the exact information that is meant to be relayed. Wwhat ( talk) 18:18, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
While I thank you for your (History2007) care and consideration of my remarks I do think that to say "in most scholarly literature the Romans of the time are called pagans" is a bit of an odd argument, simply because there is a strong religious tendency amongst writers or because a mistake is common does not mean it is advisable to continue it.
The word pagan is actually popularized by the early Christians I understand and therefore obviously highly polarized, and since we (the western public using Wikipedia in English) are from a long history of Christian influence we must be careful when approaching such a subject when we are trying to be neutral about it.
And as your own link to 'pagan' on Wikipedia clearly indicates the meaning is loaded by its adopting by (early) Christians for their purpose of defining non-Christians and its use as a pejorative term.
I also don't see why in my originally quoted example the words have to be 'pagan gods' when obviously it's the roman gods that are meant, it's not like they could pick any non-christian god, right? (see the confusion?)
However I'm too unsure about the whole thing and consider my view of it as perhaps personal, and maybe it is clear to most, and therefore I leave it to others to decide what is best in the end.
Wwhat (
talk) 12:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
The article should mention the Sao George cult in Brasil - and his identification with the Yoruba Orisha ¨Ogun¨ see < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orisha> and < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogoun> and I quote from the second article ¨ He [Ogun/Ogoun] is also prominently represented as Saint George in the syncretic traditions of contemporary Brazil.¨ At least a mention of the brasilian manifestation with a link is merrited. ( Billallenallen ( talk) 03:27, 31 October 2011 (UTC))
Section 'Life of Saint George' includes text: 'A rather intriguing, alternative take on his early life is that he was born and raised in the "inner city living" metropolis of Newton O'er the Heath, more commonly known by the locals as, Newton Heath. Although this can neither be confirmed, nor denied, it is widely accepted he is in fact of "Newie" decent.' My guess is that this is rubbish and should be removed. HLCMad ( talk) 13:36, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
The article currently reads "The grateful citizens abandon their ancestral paganism and convert to Christianity." while the 'Saint George and the Dragon' article reads "The princess and Saint George led the dragon back to the city of Silene, where it terrified the people at its approach. But Saint George called out to them, saying that if they consented to become Christians and be baptised, he would slay the dragon before them.". I think "The citizens were forced to convert to Christianity." would be more accurate. Qube0 ( talk) 12:31, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
I can't find any evidence (on-line) to support the statement that St. George is the patron saint of Tamworth. There is a big St. George festival in Tamworth, Staffordshire, but all the references I can find to that say that the celebration is in honor of George being the patron of England. If someone has a better reference than I could find, that would be great. If it's not Tamworth, Staffordshire, I'd like to know which Tamworth (disambiguation) he is the patron of. Thank you. SchreiberBike ( talk) 04:43, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
I read from a travel guide (not the most reliable source!) that Saint George is no longer an official saint, because he really never existed. I googled a lot, but did not find anything concrete to prove or disprove this. 193.166.223.5 ( talk) 09:24, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
Could "George" (Georgios) have been derived from the character in Persius story: terrible (gorgos) Gorgon Medusa? 15 September 2013 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.22.129.2 ( talk) 21:28, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
It was common for the Romans to allow pagans to continue worshiping their own deities. This would explain the widespread appearance of St. George as a patron saint and makes more sense than the story of an historical soldier. I have added a paragraph to the section about St.George and the dragon: There is some evidence linking the legend back to very old Egyptian and Phoenician sources in a late antique statue of Horus fighting a "dragon". This ties the legendary George and to some extent, the historical George, to various ancient sources using mythological and linguistic arguments. In Egyptian mythology, the god Setekh murdered his brother Osiris. Horus, the son of Osiris, avenged his father's death by killing Setekh. This iconography of the horseman with spear overcoming evil was widespread throughout the Christian period.[33] ( talk) 18:25, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
The "In Islamic Cultures" section ends with the rather strange statement "He is said to have killed a dragon near the sea in Beirut and at the beginning of the 20th century". I think someone aught to explain how exactly Saint George managed to travel almost two thousand years into the future. Seriously, though, someone should either correct that date or remove/fix that sentence (as it kind of comes out of nowhere and doesn't make sense). Pro-Apocalyptic ( talk)
The entire section was misplaced to begin with. There appears to be a tradition linking St. George to Beirut, but this is by no means universal. There appear to have been numerous shrines all over the Holy Land in the medieval period, and the one in Beirut would seem to be one of these. With proper references, it will be enough to mention it in this context, but it certainly doesn't get a separate h2 section.
In fact, there are so many shrines that it may not be possible to make such a list a sub-topic of Patronages of Saint George, let alone this article. Extremely notable shrines can be mentioned in context in prose, but clearly people are coming here to tout their local shrines, which is bound to break the article. Take it to Patronages of Saint George, and if it gets out of hand there create "List of shrines to Saint George" as a sub-page. -- dab (𒁳) 14:42, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
Added on Dec. 13, 2016, the text from the beginning of this subsection through "and perished immediately" is not appropriate in its present form for Wikipedia. It contains only a single footnote, and portions of it are directly copied from that source. It does not read like encyclopedic text, but rather as a passage from a scriptural or heroic source. It should be deleted, and then possibly some judiciously selected information from the source might be added back in encyclopedic form to the Muslim section. DonFB ( talk) 21:18, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
Any objection to my proposal here? If not, I will remove the problematic text. DonFB ( talk) 21:14, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
Saint George is, according to a programme broadcast on Radio Four today (Living with the Gods presented by Neil MacGregor the patron saint of Ethiopia, so this could be mentioned in his list of patronages. Vorbee ( talk) 19:55, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
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Please change this: George is venerated by Jews, Christians and Muslims because of his composite personality combining several Biblical, Quranic and other ancient mythical heroes.
The whole section is inaccurate - This is an article about St George and not Elijah the prophet. He does not have a composite personality for most Christians and Muslims and in particular George is not venerated by Jews at all Viddy300 ( talk) 06:25, 24 April 2018 (UTC). Please change to:
George is venerated by some Christians and Muslims because of his composite personality combining several Biblical, Quranic and other ancient mythical heroes. Viddy300 ( talk) 06:25, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
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Please change:
William Dalrymple, reviewing the literature in 1999, tells us that [[J. E. Hanauer]] in his 1907 book Folklore of the Holy Land: Muslim, Christian and Jewish "mentioned a shrine in the village of Beit Jala, beside Bethlehem, which at the time was frequented by Christians who regarded it as the birthplace of St. George and by Jews who regarded it as the burial place of the Prophet Elias.
William Dalrymple, reviewing the literature in 1999, tells us that J. E. Hanauer in his 1907 book Folklore of the Holy Land: Muslim, Christian and Jewish mentioned a shrine in the village of Beit Jala, beside Bethlehem, which at the time was frequented by Christians who regarded it as the birthplace of St. George and by some Jews who regarded it as the burial place of the Prophet Elijah.
Comments (a) the prophet's name is 'Elijah' (b) it is not a direct quote (c) I have checked the reference and it has nothing to do with St George. It is correct that there is a shrine that some treated at that time as the birth of the prophet Elijah - though it had no official status in any religion so it is misleading to say 'Jews regarded it' (some Jews perhaps). The whole section on St George and Elijah needs to be edited down to a note that at some times St George was treated as connected with Elijah, rather than including all this material about Elijah as though it obviously applies to St George. Viddy300 ( talk) 06:28, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
As it happens, George and Mithras, divinity of the Moon and for the Romans is associated with Sol Invictus divinity of the Sun and the invincible sun of the truth of reality and justice and the birth of Jesus and George the Christ and the reincarnation of Saint Nicholas in Santa Claus and Nicola and the bad spirit the soul of the devil demon of children's gifts incarnations George there are sources of St. George who created Christianity there are sources on the internet of all kinds. -- Uhioj ( talk) 23:40, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
I've removed and in England the 1222 Synod of Oxford declared Saint George's Day a feast day in the kingdom of England. citation needed, (Although this is in conflict with the article at St George's Day.) from the article text, since it's disputed and in conflict with sourced content at the Saint George's Day article. I don't have immediate access to the sources used in that article, but if somebody who does could check and rework this fragment as appropriate that would be appreciated. Thanks, Wham2001 ( talk) 06:24, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
The opening section of the article contains not a single citation and is quite unclear in which claims it makes are historically verifiable, and which are part of unsupported legends. This badly needs a fix.
Information about Saint George 142.116.55.83 ( talk) 21:45, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
What is the source for St George being the patron saint of Ukraine, as stated in the article? The best I could find was this page from the website of Ukrainian Greek Catholic church that described him as the patron of Western Ukraine: [7]
Borisblue2 ( talk) 14:19, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
Can someboy add `Alevism` to the Venerated part of the infobox. Hidirellez is the day of George and Eliah. 46.196.85.168 ( talk) 19:20, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
At the Orthodox Wiki the article on George is entitled "George the Trophy-bearer", though this is not explained in the text, and is absent from the Greek version of the page. I've been able to find no explanation of this anywhere, in fact. I assume that in Greek it would be «Γεώργιος ο Τροπαιούχος». In a poem by Ελλη Παιονίδου (Elli Paionidou), she refers to «Αϊ Γιώργη τον Μαντατοφόρο» (St George the Messenger), but again I can find no explanation of this (it might be significant that the newsletters of various churches dedicated to George are called "Messenger").
Does anyone have any information on this? Should any or all of it be mentioned in the article here? Bibliosporias ( talk) 14:35, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
Update: The Greek Wiki glosses «Τροπαιούχος» as «στρατιωτικός» (roughly, "soldier"). That's clear enough, and it seems that the article at the English "Orthodox Wiki" has mistranslated the term «Τροπαιούχος». I'm still left floundering with regard to «Αϊ Γιώργη τον Μαντατοφόρο», though. --
Bibliosporias (
talk) 15:52, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
I can find a source for the claim that Dacian killed Saint George, but only as a primary source, from a translation of the text itself. Does anyone have a good secondary source that they can find? Tooncool64 ( talk) 01:00, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
Saint_George#Veneration_in_the_Levant says:
Beit Jala mentions a church of Saint Nicholas but nothing about George. Could it be that Hanauer and Darlymple mean St. George's Monastery, Al-Khader in Al-Khader which is near Beit Jala? -- Error ( talk) 11:25, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
The last paragraph of St. George and the dragon includes "The name Ascalon was used by Winston Churchill for his personal aircraft ... according to records at Bletchley Park.". Until November 2019 there doesn't appear to have been a supporting citation of BP. The citation added by MoreMaps [1] doesn't mention Bletchley Park. Searching Ascalon and LV633 (mentioned by the IWM [2] and various other webpages in addition to Avro York#VIP service) at BP's archives [3] for doesn't lead to the plane being mentioned. Should the BP mention be kept? Mcljlm ( talk) 14:34, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
![]() | Saint George was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||
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![]() | There is a request, submitted by WikiHmmmm... ( talk), for an audio version of this article to be created. For further information, see WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia. The rationale behind the request is: "The patron saint of over 200mil people, therefore a very important historical and religous figure". |
"Reportedly" is used about a dozen times too many. This article reads like a 10th-grade research paper.
The alleged legendary aspects of the reported history of George apparently are not recorded in this probable entry. Why not? Saint George as it currently stands suppresses all the miraculous elements that were the actual basis for the historical George cult, so popular and widespread in medieval times. The alleged entry reportedly reports only those selected elements of the George legend that might pass for actual history. Some might possibly allege that this is misleading, and not up to Wikipedia's NPOV standards. Wetman 08:31, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)
What if the dragon is just a synonim for like an army or something? And the folks just used it to shorten the 'Hey dude George defated the huge army of the someguys in combat!' to 'hey George killed a dragon!Hehe COOL!' That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Andy
Actually, many hold the view that the said ‘dragon’ was indeed a metaphor for Islamic hordes. St. George was a Christian Saint because he (the arm under his control) slaughtered the Islamic Dragon so to speak. I also agree that the word 'reportedly' is used too often.
One theory of St. George,which explains why he is so widely revered, is that he is Horus and the Romans turned him into a saint to appease the followers of Horus. Horus slays a dragon, Seth. One very good representation of this is in the Louvre Museum, a carving of Horus riding a horse and slaying a dragon: http://www.louvre.fr/en/oeuvre-notices/horus-horseback This article starts with a reference to a book written by a Sun newspaper journalist which is not peer reviewed. As such, the suggested history of George does not meet Wikipedia standards and should be removed unless historical sources can be found. The article should be rewritten with appropriate references to historical sources which are contemporaneous, not to a jingoistic "hooray Henry" boys' book. Burdenedwithtruth ( talk) 17:26, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
Historians have argued the exact details of the birth of Saint George for over a century, although the approximate date of his death is subject to little debate. [1] [2] The 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia takes the position that there seems to be no ground for doubting the historical existence of Saint George, but that little faith can be placed in some of the fanciful stories about him. [3]
The work of the Bollandists Daniel Papebroch, Jean Bolland, and Godfrey Henschen in the 17th century was one of the first pieces of scholarly research to establish the historicity of the saint's existence via their publications in Bibliotheca Hagiographica Graeca and paved the way for other scholars to dismiss the medieval legends. [4] [5] Pope Gelasius stated that George was among those saints "whose names are justly reverenced among men, but whose actions are known only to God." [6]
Apart from what seems to begin with 5th-century folklore, most reference books relate that there are no contemporary or other historical documents relating to St George. There are no modern reference encyclopedias or other historical works which refer to St. George other than as a legendary character and you cannot impose your view on this page on the basis of religious writings. If you revert this again I will ask that this be referred to arbitration Burdenedwithtruth ( talk) 20:26, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
References
In the canon of Pope Gelasius (494) George is mentioned in a list of those 'whose names are justly reverenced among men, but whose acts are known only to God'
Edward Gibbon was of the opinion that the original man on whom the legend was based was not quite so holy. He states, quite confidently, that during the Arian controversy, when the Arians had the upper hand in the battle to define the doctrine of the church, Athanasius, bishop of Alexandria, was sticking to his anti-arian guns and making waves. He was thrown out by the powers that be and replaced by the Arian George of Cappadocia who Gibbon portrays as a money-grabbing, power hungry thug. Although he was unpopular with everyone it was the pagan residents of the city who rose up against him when they were encouraged by hearing that they had a pagan emperor in Julian the Apostate (as he is now known). Being killed by pagans meant that he was a martyr and his behaviour while alive was forgotten.
All of this may of course be rubbish - Gibbon may be a great and influential historian but his word is not gospel truth. So does anyone know if this version has any sources to back it up or was it nonsense which has been debunked over the last two centuries. -- Spondoolicks 21:10, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
Athanasius was replaced by a Gregory of Cappadocia who does not have his own article yet. Gibbon had apparently confused the two Cappadocians. User:Dimadick
St. George is also honored in the Muslim world under the name Al-Khidr.
Please could "superdude99" explain why my contribution regarding Ken Livingstone's refusal to allow a St. George's celebration in London has been deleted twice. This has been widely reported in the British press (both The Times and The Telegraph have given details) and I have written to the Mayor himself about it, not that he ever bothered to reply. It seems to me to be both a relevant and accurate addition.
Mr Ken Livingstone, is a member of si-pac a communist secret society,one of this societies aims is to undermine the Christian and Muslem faiths by any means possible, He (Ken) hates muslims and St George is highly venerated in Palistine and amoungst the Coptic peoples of Eygpt. He would no doubt rather flay himself than see the people he dispises so much enjop their patron Saints day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.3.64 ( talk) 17:50, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
The paragraph is portraying the Mayor of London in a biased light.
"In recent years demands" - who is demanding?
"have been turned down by the London Mayor" - I appreciate that you have tried contacting the Mayor to find an answer but without knowing the full story it is a far stretch to say that he personally turned it down. And if he did then I would suggest finding a reference of him doing so.
So I have amended the paragraph to remove both the reference to St Patrick (what conclusion is to be drawn from London celebrating one particular patron saint to another?) and to the current mayor (due to the reasons provided above). The only factual and relevant information that we can include here is that London does not currently celebrate this crazy saints day. -- NHawes 12:12, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
How exactly is London supposed to celebrate St. George's Day? The day isn't a public holiday anywhere in theUK- surely it would be up to the government in Westminster to declare the day a Bank Holiday and then let various municipalities hold some sort of celebration if they wanted to. The idea of Ken Livingstone, or any London mayor, having a big parade going along by the Thames on a working week day is ridiculous. And how would we even celebrate St. George's day? Are there any traditions associated with the day? Is there a history of celebrations? Or is this just some silly attempt by hysterical journalists to create a story and blabber on about "politcally correct" attacks on British values?
I have the gravest doubt regarding the text here: "On June 2 1893, Pope Leo XIII demoted St George as Patron Saint for the English, relegating him to the secondary rank of 'national protector' and replaced him with St Peter as the Patron Saint of England. The change was solemnly announced by Cardinal Herbert Vaughan in the Brompton Oratory. This papal pronouncement served to exclude the Catholic Church in England from a day which is part of English tradition". I can't find any external verification for it. JohnHarris 10:42, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
I am deleting a sample image on this page. It is a sample image and unneeded.-- Matt D 00:28, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
An anon changed the link in the info box from Palestine to Israel. [1] I have decided to revert back since at the time this person existed, this area was called "Palaestina". — TheKMan talk 01:17, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
What happened to the section about what actually happened during his life.
Palestine was the Roman name for Judea as of 135AD. The Jews never used the name Palestine until it was invoked by the British in 1917. In 1964 the Arabs west of the Jordan river became the 'Palestinians' thanks to the KGB giving the notion to Arafat. So St George would have been a Judean, not an Israeli. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.30.24.87 ( talk) 18:03, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
I changed "now in Palestine- Israel" to Israel only. It says "now in ...", and now it's in Israel. What it was on ancient times, and what some would want it to be in the future, is irrelevant. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.229.251.117 ( talk) 15:04, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
He was named Athanasius (Αθανάσιος ο Μάγος) and he wasn't exactly a priest. One can check the synaxari or The Passion of St. George from patron saints index: St George. talk to +MATIA 09:44, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
Saint George is the patron of Catalonia as you can read in the article. The feast in Catalonia is to be the national day of lovers (like Valentine's day) but, recently, is being forgotten because of the international celebration of the 14th of February and because the same 23 of April is the UNESCO International day of Book and copyright. On that, it should be added that also Inca Garcilaso de la Vega and Josep Pla died that same day, although the last one died on 1981 and not on 1616 like Shakespeare, Cervantes and the first one. In Catalonia, the legend tells that from the blood of the dragon grew a red rose which he gave to the princess, and that's why in Catalonia men give red roses to women. People give books to each other because of the International day of Book, but not because of Saint George's day. And, if I am not wrong, we do not say he cut the dragon's head off but he sticked his lancein his heart.
Wasn't there also another George who was matryed trying to aid Paul's escape from Damascus? I'm pretty sure that there were other St. George's in antiquity, as well as others more recent than the current one. If there are, I'll be happy to make a dismabiguation. Let me know on my talk page...-- V. Joe 07:51, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
The introduction looked very small in comparison to most other articles, so I added a bit. I've also added a line that says "The flag of Saint George is now probably most visible when flown by supporters of England sporting teams." but I'm fairly sure that will be controversial. Maybe it shouldn't be there, but I think it's true. Kayman1uk 09:05, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
"A comic book, Aliens vs. Predator Annual #1, retold the story with the "dragon" of the legend revealed to be a Yautja, or Predator."
I've removed this as it's really nothing to do with the saint. I'll be kind and move it to the article George and the Dragon. Kayman1uk 09:05, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, I'm going to continue summarising edits here even if no-one else wants to any more. Given that George seems to have an astonishingly wide range of patronage, it's worth drawing attention to that diverse group in the intro.
For what it's worth, I think the recent edits have dramatically improved the page, particularly the side-bar. Kayman1uk 11:10, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Given that there is a main page dedicated to George and the Dragon, the amount of space dedicated to analysis of the story/myth/allegory here seemed excessive. I've thinned out that section considerably.
I accept that a significant amount of effort was put into this section by several people, and I would encourage them to merge their work into the relevant page, rather than lose it.
The approach I took to eliminating sentences was essentially (and completely subjectively) to keep what I thought were the most common/accessible references e.g. I kept Greek myths over Germanic and Indian ones, simply because the Greek ones tend to have filtered through into the English language a bit more. Let's discuss. Kayman1uk 12:31, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Someone written down on this section and I qoute "And he smells like a big ball of poo."
As many countries and cities have George as patron saint, I deleted the three that were mentioned in the lead, for NPOV. -- Matthead 21:15, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I see St George is given as the patron saint of Greece. Can you explain? As the Greek flag uses the Cross of St Andrew, who I assume is their patron saint. I was informed that this St Andrew is the same one as Scotland uses. Bettybutt ( talk) 04:19, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
The only ref that contained the name STIHDJIA for the dragon that I could find that was not just a copy of this article on another site was
http://www.alamy.com/stock_photography/1/1/Adrian+Sherratt/AP1WH9.html
It was part of a list unattached to prose, likely put there to attact search-engines. I don't think this qualifies as confirmation. I'm skeptical on the name with this lack of refs. I'll keep looking.
There is no name given to the dragon anywhere on the web or in any of the books in Google books. There are lots of mirrored versions copying this article on the web and it looks like the only people naming this dragon is whoever first claimed its name was Stihdjia on this page. In essence this wikipedia article is inventing a name instead of encyclopedicly reporting a name. There is no source claiming this name anywhere, so asserting the name is Stihdjia is as frivilous as naming it Godzilla.-- Wowaconia 20:11, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
This article has it backwards, so I am modifying it.
Our parenting website has two articles on St George that I'd like to place links to from this page. One has facts about St George and his origins http://www.raisingkids.co.uk/fea/fea140_stgeorge.asp
The other page features traditional English recipes families could cook to celebrate St George's Day http://www.raisingkids.co.uk/fea/fea109_stgeorgesday.asp
I think both are relevant and useful, but wanted to put the links up for discussion before I added them. Rkeditor 08:35, 19 April 2007 (UTC)''''
I have deleted the unsourced, unwikified personal essay that was anonymously entered. Much of it is already in the article, and the potted hisory notes are irrelevant to George and treated in their own Wikipedia articles. Please look at the [ deleted text here] and see whether there is anything that can be given a source and added back to the article. -- Wetman 18:37, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure that St George is the patron saint of Canada; I thought that he was some French dude, but I may be wrong. Any ideas? Poojean 16:16, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm not russian, but I know that "St George killing the dragoon" is featured on Moscow's emblem (very similar to the icon from Novgorod added in the article). The latter is itself featured in the Russian Federation's one, as St George is Patron Saint of both Russia and its capital city.
In the Serbian Orthodox Church St. George is a Patron Saint of many families and has many churches and monastaries named after him. Serbia should be mentioned in this article.
24.150.77.3 18:08, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
Dear Jordan, Today is the Slava of Saint George in Serbia, by the Orthodox church calendar. Can you please make the Serbia at least a link in the first paragraph? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.172.242.134 ( talk) 08:27, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
Whoever started the FAC process, did not carry it through. It is not listed at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast 12:41, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
This article hasn't received a GA review yet. Should do this before FA. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast 12:43, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
I've copied the following QA from the Humanities Reference Desk. Please note in particular the concerns over the contention that St. George was 'replaced' as the patron saint of England by the Pope in 1893. A citation request was put against this assertion, though no response has been forthcoming to date. Does anyone have a legitimate source here? I intend to leave this for a day or two, and if nothing is forthcoming I think it best if I remove the point altogether. Clio the Muse 22:30, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
What is the background to the cult of St. George? Tower Raven 18:51, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
→Was not Edmund the Martyr the Patron saint of England, rather than Edward the Confessor anyway? Johnny Cyprus ( talk) 07:32, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
There aren't enough sources. Alientraveller 14:39, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
San Giorgio (St.George) is also the patron saint of the italian city of Ferrara, where the former 10th century cathedral and the splendid new 12th century basilique cathedral were built and named after Him.
-- MosMaiorum 02:50, 17 October 2007
Whose idea was it to add Deptford to the list of countries (or at least historically autonomous regions) of whom G is patron saint? 82.40.237.89 ( talk) 16:20, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
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BetacommandBot ( talk) 07:17, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
How can jews consider that Elijah is buried there if Elijah is said to have been taken away to heaven in a chariot?
since when did religion have to make sense? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.30.174 ( talk) 04:45, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh yeah, cower in anonymity. That's a pointless and malicious thing to say. This page isn't for a debates on the merits of religion. Go to yahoo answers for that. Amulekii ( talk) 00:51, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
Some sources put his birth place as Coventry (mostly English ballads), however others put it as Cappadocia (notably, The Golden Legend), where his father came from.
I've edited to include the ambiguity over his birthplace, as there is probably at least as much weight toward it being Cappadocia than Coventry, and the Golden Legend is quite a notable version of the St George legend. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.30.174 ( talk) 05:12, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
This article lacks sources for the information provided. Diocletian is mentioned as the factor behind Georges death, which is unproven. There are no hard facts as to when George lived, and where he was born, or even what his actual name was. This article should be labled as such. Nathraq ( talk) 16:58, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
St. George is also the name of a 250-year-old church in Sottrum, Germany. The Althaus, or town hall, has historical information that cites this George as the same dragon-killing Christian man who saved a princess. Inside the stone church there is a wooden knight depicting St. George and, on the wall, there are mother-of-pearl laden wooden statues of George and the dragon. Sottrum, founded in 1290, should also be listed as one of St. George's sites. (There are two others in the Lower Saxony area.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sultanarose ( talk • contribs) 20:21, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
St. George is also the name of a 800-year-old church in Sottrum, Germany. The Althaus, or town hall, has historical information that cites this George as the same dragon-killing Christian man who saved a princess. Inside the stone church there is a wooden knight depicting St. George and, on the wall, there are mother-of-pearl laden wooden statues of George and the dragon. Sottrum, founded in 1205, should also be listed as one of St. George's sites. (There are two others in the Lower Saxony area.) This Sopttrum story, however has one difference. The dragon interfered when the church was being built. St. George slayed him. So, perhaps he saved a church and a princess. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sultanarose ( talk • contribs) 21:07, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
This title has been returned to Saint George, as the title that the normally well-prepared Wikipedia reader will search. The attempted title "George of Lydda" knowingly inserts a spurious air of historicity, to give this legendary archetype an underserved aura of historical reality. -- Wetman ( talk) 19:55, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
I don't know how reliable this is, but in Scanderbeg: From Ottoman Captive to Albanian Hero, it sates: " Scanderbeg himself vouchsafed a vision that had come to him: St. George, the Christian warrior and the patron saint of Albania, had personally presented him with a flaming sword to destroy the enemies of true religion." This was probably taken from Marin Barleti, an Albanian clergyman who wrote a biography about Scanderbeg. -- Gaius Claudius Nero ( talk) 19:21, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
If George made it into his "late 20s" before his promotion and the events of 302 AD, how could he be born any later than 276? The date of death seems so certain, how could 285 be remotely plausible as a birth-year? 63.88.67.230 ( talk) 01:08, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
All sections of this article are coming to be supported by citations, with the exception of the "biography", which is replete with details, even dates, to give it verisimilitude. This is not the miracle-filled account from Legenda Aurea. Where is it from? I have not peppered the text with demands for facts and citations, as I find that behavior distasteful. But anyone who can support any "historical" detail with a citation would improve this ambitious but weak section. -- Wetman ( talk) 05:13, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
I added a few refs, but elsewhere this article has many statements and assertions, and many church names that are not verifiable. Unless there are good suggestions otherwise, I will clean up a few of the "I guess it might be true" unsupported items in a day or two. Cheers History2007 ( talk)
"Cannot be considered a historic individual" seems a bit strong, particularly given that there are all sorts of historic claims made about him later in the article. If the Catholic Encyclopedia says there is no ground for doubting his historic existence, then I doubt that a bald claim of non-historicity can be NPOV. The citation for his non-historicity is merely that he was omitted from another encyclopedia, which scarcely seems overwhelming. I would suggest altering to something like, "His historicity is disputed" or "There is ongoing debate about whether there was a real George behind the accumulated legends."
Also, there seems to be a contradiction in this section between, "St George is not commerated in any early vita or acta" and "synthesised from early and late hagiographical sources". Are there early hagiographical sources or not?
81.154.183.79 ( talk) 09:51, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
I've also noticed that the no early acta claim is contradicted by the "Sources" section, unless "early" is intended to mean before 5th century. It seems to me that "Life and legend" section requires substantial editting.
81.154.183.79 ( talk) 10:01, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
It says "St. George to be considered, as suggested by Gibbon, Vetter, and others, a legendary double of the disreputable bishop, George of Cappadocia,"
Now its really irrelevant what it concludes, even ignoring whether its a biased source, for what it does most definitely state is that these scholars, including 'others', did take this view, so it can be the cite for that.
But, it does actually state that although it rejects the above identification, "it is not improbable that the apocryphal Acts have borrowed some incidents from the story of the Arian bishop". (The 'apocryphal acts' are the Acta Sanctii Georgii, on which later accounts of his life is based). In other words the Catholic encyclopedia argues that its plausible for "some incidents" to derive from George of Cappodocia (the Arian bishop in question).
Hence citing Gibbon for "in whole" and Catholic Encyclopedia for "in part" is entirely valid. Anthony on Stilts ( talk) 04:05, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Also, from the Edward Gibbon article,
and later
and
So really, its quite an important text, the comments of which should be mentioned. Anthony on Stilts ( talk) 04:13, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
If we are going to claim that a source is invalidated by being more than 200 years old, we'd best delete all direct references to the Bible from Wikipedia, as well as all quotes from Jerome, Eusebius, and the Acta Sanctii Georgii themselves. If you check wikipedia:Reliable Sources there's definitely no date criteria.
Here's a fuller quote by Stephens, in the Dictionary of National Biography - a similarly respected work, still updated (and this quote is still there, even in the 2004 edition) - about the view of Gibbon's book
The fact that its a nearly unanimous view, and the text is called 'definitive', really should be viewed as indicating the worth of the text, and the ability to cite from it in the article. Anthony on Stilts ( talk) 13:39, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
And I also feel a very good explanation is owed for deleting the details about Tyrannius Rufinus (4th century historian) and Theodotus of Ancyra (5th century bishop) - near contemporaries of either George. Anthony on Stilts ( talk) 13:41, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Johnbod ( talk) 14:04, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
The Saint's name is Greek. It is Georgios and not 'George'. No remark is made on this. The name of the Saint's father is Greek and he was a Greek serving Roman army, not a Roman. His name was Gerontios and not 'Geronizio'. No Remark is made on this. The name of the Saint's mother is Greek: Polychronia. So we have three individuals all with Greek names. What a coincidence but no worth commenting according to the authors of this article. His mother was from Palaestine (another Greek name)- not Palestine. The Palaestinians are originaly from Crete in Greece. In many modern historical articles (including wikipedia articles) the historical person's biography has no reference to his ethnic origin. They avoid it. Especially if it's Greek. Even if his name is Greek and his parents' name's are Greek then they will avoid it even more. You really have to dig in such articles to see what is the ethnic origin of those persons. And even then you dont find it because it isn't there. I guess it is more important to mention the ethic background of someone that met Saint George rather than mention the ethnic background of the Saint himself. But what are they going to say? That the patron Saint of all those countries is Greek? Noway. They're going to be unclear by saying: "a roman soldier according to tradition" (but not mentioning his Greek origin), "mother from Palestine" (rather than a Palestinian or a Greek woman with a Greek name from the area of Palestine in which the Greek colonies (and not English or Bulgarian) were multiple. On top of that do not mention Greek Orthodox tradition or Greece in the list of countries. And there you have it. Instead they mention Bulgaria. The Bulgarians were made Christians by the Byzantine Greeks. And then they mention India and Brazil! Next thing they're going to mention China as the fellow commentator said before me. Or as the other fellow asked above about his origins but noone answered to him. Kassos ( talk) 22:15, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
Although Genoa's flag is St. George's Cross, its patron Saint is St. John the Baptist. I know it's weird but consider also that Genoa's Cathedral is dedicated to St. Lawrence and the Virgin Mary was adopted as Queen in the Middle Ages. 92.60.35.2 ( talk) 09:39, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
-More provided on request.
This really is an unprecedented level of harassment directed at contributors trying to improve the quality of an embarassingly deficient article, I must say...! Let's try hard to envision what a "good article" would look like. Would a complete, high class article not, sooner or later, have to include all the relevant info from all the relevant sources - such as what most of them call his parents names? Do we have to fight tooth-and-nail to avoid resembling anything like what all the real-world sources out there have on this subject? What a joke ROFLOL —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.105.41.97 ( talk) 21:11, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
An IP removed the term Palestine, saying that it is obsolete. I personally have no political views on Isreal vs Palestine but that deletion is clearly a POV political statement. I did a web search and Jimmy Carter wrote a book with Palestine in the title about year ago. So it is not obsolete. History2007 ( talk) 17:07, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
As is the section on patronage is dominating the article now and MOST of the entries are reference free. And many of the entries are churches that need to go to the Church page. I suggest moving it to a new page called Patronages of Saint George, for this article is about the saint, not geography. Unless there are good reasons not to, I will do that later. History2007 ( talk) 10:57, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Ok, maybe we can try this:
I do not know of another patronage page, but we can be the first to do it. Why not? Anyway, what do you think? History2007 ( talk) 14:22, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
The British Eddas written by L.A Waddell convincingly argues that St George is none other than King Arthur and Thor and Indara of the Indo-Aryans. Ar-thur is synonymous with Herr-Thor. In-Dara synonymous with K(in)g Dar..ie lord Thor ie Ar-thor. Goer or Geir is the name of his hammer which he always carried(mace, or spear) an epithet of Thor of ancient times used everywhere from German folk lore to the Hittites and Sumerians. Gar is Proto Indo-european for mace/weapon. The Eddas appears to be the best surviving story of George/Thor, it is uncorrupted as happened to the Greek/Latin/Hindu/Egyptian versions of George/Thor. In essence George/Thor was an indo-european coloniser of Asian Minor he fought and defeated the Chaldean's ,led by queen Frigge/El who was head of the Serpent cult. When he slew her with his mace(Goer) the myth of George slaying the reptilian dragon was born. Bas Reliefs and ancient seals abound in Asia Minor containing pictures of George/Thor slaying Snakes/Dragons/crocodiles. George carried a red cross in his one hand, the symbol of his Sun religion. The Sun Cross predates christianity by thousands of years. It is unfortunately the cross and George's latter depiction on a horse with a lance which has confused historians into thinking he is recently post christian which he most certainly is not and is probably the first recorded figure in human history, hence his fame in vastly differing places. Christian missionaries in the 1st millenium are well documented as destroying all "pagan" references to George (books and stone carvings). Fortunately there are some that have survived and his story can be rebuilt. The Phoenician version of George dating to around 800BC has him on a horse with a Lance and his cross. Even this version is 2000 years after his existance around 3300BC. Its believe to have been brought to Britain by the Phoenicians which is why we have that version of him.-- 92.4.47.139 ( talk) 16:05, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
Many people may not know what 'Patronages of Saint George' means, and therefore it'd be nice if somebody went and gave the readers a brief definition next to the phrase. makeswell ( talk) 03:17, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
I was wondering whether a picture of Pistrucci's St. George and the Dragon design should be included in some section. Especially seeing as it has been on the British coins since c.1816 [albeit now only on non-circulating issues]. It is also probably the most widely recognised picture of St. George for the British population. (esp. for the middle-aged generations due to the festival of britain crown in 1951). I feel coin designs are relevant. Many nations depict their core/historical values on coins. any thoughts?? Wuku ( talk) 12:58, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
In some icons such as the one shown here or this bulgarian Orthodox or this Ethiopian church mural a small person is shown riding behind St. George. It is almost certainly not meant to be a child but follows a convention of using size to indicate importance - note the maiden at bottom left. Who is this person? And why is the saint almost invariably depicted riding from left to right? — RHaworth ( talk · contribs) 14:26, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
Since the definition of 'pagan' is: "a person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main world religions." To use it to denote the roman belief system of the time is quite inappropriate and confusing I would say. When for instance it says: "every Christian soldier in the army should be arrested and every other soldier should offer a sacrifice to the Pagan gods" it leaves me in confusion what is meant with 'pagan gods'. (and don't understand why the word pagan is capitalized either, but that's another matter). And the various other times the word 'pagan' is used it also is unclear as to the exact information that is meant to be relayed. Wwhat ( talk) 18:18, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
While I thank you for your (History2007) care and consideration of my remarks I do think that to say "in most scholarly literature the Romans of the time are called pagans" is a bit of an odd argument, simply because there is a strong religious tendency amongst writers or because a mistake is common does not mean it is advisable to continue it.
The word pagan is actually popularized by the early Christians I understand and therefore obviously highly polarized, and since we (the western public using Wikipedia in English) are from a long history of Christian influence we must be careful when approaching such a subject when we are trying to be neutral about it.
And as your own link to 'pagan' on Wikipedia clearly indicates the meaning is loaded by its adopting by (early) Christians for their purpose of defining non-Christians and its use as a pejorative term.
I also don't see why in my originally quoted example the words have to be 'pagan gods' when obviously it's the roman gods that are meant, it's not like they could pick any non-christian god, right? (see the confusion?)
However I'm too unsure about the whole thing and consider my view of it as perhaps personal, and maybe it is clear to most, and therefore I leave it to others to decide what is best in the end.
Wwhat (
talk) 12:37, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
The article should mention the Sao George cult in Brasil - and his identification with the Yoruba Orisha ¨Ogun¨ see < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orisha> and < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogoun> and I quote from the second article ¨ He [Ogun/Ogoun] is also prominently represented as Saint George in the syncretic traditions of contemporary Brazil.¨ At least a mention of the brasilian manifestation with a link is merrited. ( Billallenallen ( talk) 03:27, 31 October 2011 (UTC))
Section 'Life of Saint George' includes text: 'A rather intriguing, alternative take on his early life is that he was born and raised in the "inner city living" metropolis of Newton O'er the Heath, more commonly known by the locals as, Newton Heath. Although this can neither be confirmed, nor denied, it is widely accepted he is in fact of "Newie" decent.' My guess is that this is rubbish and should be removed. HLCMad ( talk) 13:36, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
The article currently reads "The grateful citizens abandon their ancestral paganism and convert to Christianity." while the 'Saint George and the Dragon' article reads "The princess and Saint George led the dragon back to the city of Silene, where it terrified the people at its approach. But Saint George called out to them, saying that if they consented to become Christians and be baptised, he would slay the dragon before them.". I think "The citizens were forced to convert to Christianity." would be more accurate. Qube0 ( talk) 12:31, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
I can't find any evidence (on-line) to support the statement that St. George is the patron saint of Tamworth. There is a big St. George festival in Tamworth, Staffordshire, but all the references I can find to that say that the celebration is in honor of George being the patron of England. If someone has a better reference than I could find, that would be great. If it's not Tamworth, Staffordshire, I'd like to know which Tamworth (disambiguation) he is the patron of. Thank you. SchreiberBike ( talk) 04:43, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
I read from a travel guide (not the most reliable source!) that Saint George is no longer an official saint, because he really never existed. I googled a lot, but did not find anything concrete to prove or disprove this. 193.166.223.5 ( talk) 09:24, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
Could "George" (Georgios) have been derived from the character in Persius story: terrible (gorgos) Gorgon Medusa? 15 September 2013 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.22.129.2 ( talk) 21:28, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
It was common for the Romans to allow pagans to continue worshiping their own deities. This would explain the widespread appearance of St. George as a patron saint and makes more sense than the story of an historical soldier. I have added a paragraph to the section about St.George and the dragon: There is some evidence linking the legend back to very old Egyptian and Phoenician sources in a late antique statue of Horus fighting a "dragon". This ties the legendary George and to some extent, the historical George, to various ancient sources using mythological and linguistic arguments. In Egyptian mythology, the god Setekh murdered his brother Osiris. Horus, the son of Osiris, avenged his father's death by killing Setekh. This iconography of the horseman with spear overcoming evil was widespread throughout the Christian period.[33] ( talk) 18:25, 26 April 2014 (UTC)
The "In Islamic Cultures" section ends with the rather strange statement "He is said to have killed a dragon near the sea in Beirut and at the beginning of the 20th century". I think someone aught to explain how exactly Saint George managed to travel almost two thousand years into the future. Seriously, though, someone should either correct that date or remove/fix that sentence (as it kind of comes out of nowhere and doesn't make sense). Pro-Apocalyptic ( talk)
The entire section was misplaced to begin with. There appears to be a tradition linking St. George to Beirut, but this is by no means universal. There appear to have been numerous shrines all over the Holy Land in the medieval period, and the one in Beirut would seem to be one of these. With proper references, it will be enough to mention it in this context, but it certainly doesn't get a separate h2 section.
In fact, there are so many shrines that it may not be possible to make such a list a sub-topic of Patronages of Saint George, let alone this article. Extremely notable shrines can be mentioned in context in prose, but clearly people are coming here to tout their local shrines, which is bound to break the article. Take it to Patronages of Saint George, and if it gets out of hand there create "List of shrines to Saint George" as a sub-page. -- dab (𒁳) 14:42, 24 June 2016 (UTC)
Added on Dec. 13, 2016, the text from the beginning of this subsection through "and perished immediately" is not appropriate in its present form for Wikipedia. It contains only a single footnote, and portions of it are directly copied from that source. It does not read like encyclopedic text, but rather as a passage from a scriptural or heroic source. It should be deleted, and then possibly some judiciously selected information from the source might be added back in encyclopedic form to the Muslim section. DonFB ( talk) 21:18, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
Any objection to my proposal here? If not, I will remove the problematic text. DonFB ( talk) 21:14, 30 December 2016 (UTC)
Saint George is, according to a programme broadcast on Radio Four today (Living with the Gods presented by Neil MacGregor the patron saint of Ethiopia, so this could be mentioned in his list of patronages. Vorbee ( talk) 19:55, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
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Please change this: George is venerated by Jews, Christians and Muslims because of his composite personality combining several Biblical, Quranic and other ancient mythical heroes.
The whole section is inaccurate - This is an article about St George and not Elijah the prophet. He does not have a composite personality for most Christians and Muslims and in particular George is not venerated by Jews at all Viddy300 ( talk) 06:25, 24 April 2018 (UTC). Please change to:
George is venerated by some Christians and Muslims because of his composite personality combining several Biblical, Quranic and other ancient mythical heroes. Viddy300 ( talk) 06:25, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
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Please change:
William Dalrymple, reviewing the literature in 1999, tells us that [[J. E. Hanauer]] in his 1907 book Folklore of the Holy Land: Muslim, Christian and Jewish "mentioned a shrine in the village of Beit Jala, beside Bethlehem, which at the time was frequented by Christians who regarded it as the birthplace of St. George and by Jews who regarded it as the burial place of the Prophet Elias.
William Dalrymple, reviewing the literature in 1999, tells us that J. E. Hanauer in his 1907 book Folklore of the Holy Land: Muslim, Christian and Jewish mentioned a shrine in the village of Beit Jala, beside Bethlehem, which at the time was frequented by Christians who regarded it as the birthplace of St. George and by some Jews who regarded it as the burial place of the Prophet Elijah.
Comments (a) the prophet's name is 'Elijah' (b) it is not a direct quote (c) I have checked the reference and it has nothing to do with St George. It is correct that there is a shrine that some treated at that time as the birth of the prophet Elijah - though it had no official status in any religion so it is misleading to say 'Jews regarded it' (some Jews perhaps). The whole section on St George and Elijah needs to be edited down to a note that at some times St George was treated as connected with Elijah, rather than including all this material about Elijah as though it obviously applies to St George. Viddy300 ( talk) 06:28, 24 April 2018 (UTC)
As it happens, George and Mithras, divinity of the Moon and for the Romans is associated with Sol Invictus divinity of the Sun and the invincible sun of the truth of reality and justice and the birth of Jesus and George the Christ and the reincarnation of Saint Nicholas in Santa Claus and Nicola and the bad spirit the soul of the devil demon of children's gifts incarnations George there are sources of St. George who created Christianity there are sources on the internet of all kinds. -- Uhioj ( talk) 23:40, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
I've removed and in England the 1222 Synod of Oxford declared Saint George's Day a feast day in the kingdom of England. citation needed, (Although this is in conflict with the article at St George's Day.) from the article text, since it's disputed and in conflict with sourced content at the Saint George's Day article. I don't have immediate access to the sources used in that article, but if somebody who does could check and rework this fragment as appropriate that would be appreciated. Thanks, Wham2001 ( talk) 06:24, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
The opening section of the article contains not a single citation and is quite unclear in which claims it makes are historically verifiable, and which are part of unsupported legends. This badly needs a fix.
Information about Saint George 142.116.55.83 ( talk) 21:45, 17 November 2021 (UTC)
What is the source for St George being the patron saint of Ukraine, as stated in the article? The best I could find was this page from the website of Ukrainian Greek Catholic church that described him as the patron of Western Ukraine: [7]
Borisblue2 ( talk) 14:19, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
Can someboy add `Alevism` to the Venerated part of the infobox. Hidirellez is the day of George and Eliah. 46.196.85.168 ( talk) 19:20, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
At the Orthodox Wiki the article on George is entitled "George the Trophy-bearer", though this is not explained in the text, and is absent from the Greek version of the page. I've been able to find no explanation of this anywhere, in fact. I assume that in Greek it would be «Γεώργιος ο Τροπαιούχος». In a poem by Ελλη Παιονίδου (Elli Paionidou), she refers to «Αϊ Γιώργη τον Μαντατοφόρο» (St George the Messenger), but again I can find no explanation of this (it might be significant that the newsletters of various churches dedicated to George are called "Messenger").
Does anyone have any information on this? Should any or all of it be mentioned in the article here? Bibliosporias ( talk) 14:35, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
Update: The Greek Wiki glosses «Τροπαιούχος» as «στρατιωτικός» (roughly, "soldier"). That's clear enough, and it seems that the article at the English "Orthodox Wiki" has mistranslated the term «Τροπαιούχος». I'm still left floundering with regard to «Αϊ Γιώργη τον Μαντατοφόρο», though. --
Bibliosporias (
talk) 15:52, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
I can find a source for the claim that Dacian killed Saint George, but only as a primary source, from a translation of the text itself. Does anyone have a good secondary source that they can find? Tooncool64 ( talk) 01:00, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
Saint_George#Veneration_in_the_Levant says:
Beit Jala mentions a church of Saint Nicholas but nothing about George. Could it be that Hanauer and Darlymple mean St. George's Monastery, Al-Khader in Al-Khader which is near Beit Jala? -- Error ( talk) 11:25, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
The last paragraph of St. George and the dragon includes "The name Ascalon was used by Winston Churchill for his personal aircraft ... according to records at Bletchley Park.". Until November 2019 there doesn't appear to have been a supporting citation of BP. The citation added by MoreMaps [1] doesn't mention Bletchley Park. Searching Ascalon and LV633 (mentioned by the IWM [2] and various other webpages in addition to Avro York#VIP service) at BP's archives [3] for doesn't lead to the plane being mentioned. Should the BP mention be kept? Mcljlm ( talk) 14:34, 23 April 2024 (UTC)