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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 01:52, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 00:08, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
The name should be changed, it is a play on the word "Dominican", indirectly suggesting that this group has something to do with Dominican Republic or it's people, but it has nothing to do with DR. "Dominican creoles" also never referred to themselves as "Dominican creoles", nor did other people referred to them as such. Once Haitian independence came, the people renamed their country- giving it the current name Haiti and started to refer to themselves as Haitians. Before that event, the colony was called St. Domingue (and the eastern spanish colony was called Santo Domingo). In French St. Domingue, there was far less mixing and intermingling between races in comparasion to the spanish side of the island which had a large mixed population early on in the coloinal period. St Domingue's white French probably saw themselves as white/French first and very different from St Domingue's enslaved black African majority, they did'nt see themselves as one group under the name "Dominican creoles", they were just French and African. Not only did they not see themselves the same in St Domingue, that colony was completely different ancestrally and culturally from it's eastern spanish neighbor Santo Domingo. A good name would be St Dominguans (to distinguish from the very different Dominican people), or just make it simple and put "Colonial-era Haitians". MonsenorNouel ( talk) 19:03, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
Dominican Republic → République dominicaine in French. (Note: Domingo is not the same word as "Dominicana" (Dominican) in Spanish even though they both derive from
Saint Dominic.)
Dominica → Dominique; Dominican → Dominiquais in French. ─In this instance, English rules merely replaced the "qu" (k) with a "c" (Latinized "c", opposed to a Germanicized "k") for the existing word "Dominican".
Domingue is used in both English and French lexicons. Domingais in French → Dominguan .. NOT Dominican.
Again Aearthrise, none of these are WP:COMMONNAME and the plethora of works cited in this article; I checked them all. Saint-Dominican/Saint Dominican/Dominican in terms of the French colony of Saint-Domingue are for the large part WP:OR by your inclusions and if supported, are by a very small minority of Americans who wrote about it much much later via non-fiction publications who did not understand the French to English grammar translation. "Saint-Dominguan" or "Dominguan" aren't even WP:COMMONNAME. It was just Creole. If we needed to give it a classification, it would be what the article is named as "Saint-Domingue Creoles". However, this still would not supersede the "Haitian Creoles" and/or Haitians. For the majority of people from Saint-Domingue, these Creoles became Haitians by name. So by your article naming, did the history of these peoples begin in 1804? As mentioned earlier, Toussaint Louverture did not even see Haiti (died in 1802) but he is a Haitian Revolutionary. Furthermore, there are references that refer to the earlier peoples of Saint-Domingue as Haitians in modern sources. (See: Jean Baptiste Point du Sable, who has a plaque in Chicago stating he was "Haitian-born". here Also, sparsely referenced as "Haitian" here, here and here.
John James Audubon was born in Les Cayes, Saint Domingue and is often referenced to being born in Haiti without Saint-Domingue anywhere to be found. Even by his own organization and/or enthusiasts at Audubon.org
The same are conducted for peoples like Christopher Columbus who was Genovese (from Genoa) but are said to be "Italian" even though the Republic of Italy didn't exist and wasn't yet united. These groups came from various Kingdoms in this Italic area.
The articles were fine by simply stating " a Creole from Saint-Domingue" and if we (editors) were to use modern terminology they would all have sources in their biographies stating that each and everyone pertaining to the French side of the island were "Haitian" as WP:COMMONNAME.
You do understand (as in the case of Italy), that "Haiti" is the native name for the entire island before Columbus' arrival right? That the name was restored as the aboriginal name by Jean-Jacques Dessalines. A name that predates both Santo Domingo/San Domingo, Saint-Domingue and Hispaniola which the latter was put into official use for the whole island by Americans who occupied both lands, dividing both countries up (Haiti/DR) after setting official borders in the early 20th century. Savvyjack23 ( talk) 23:23, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
Aearthrise, among the plethora of images you have either used in various articles and/or uploaded via Commons of 'Agostino Brunias' work allegedly pertaining to Saint-Domingue are all in regards to DOMINCA, the French and English colony! Here is an example: [ 1]; British History museum description: Free Natives of Dominica
"West Indian" even though it can be attributed to all the Caribbean nations, is mostly a modern-day application for English-speaking Caribbean nations.
I must say, I am overwhelmed by your "contributions", which have largely gone unchecked for more than 2 years in a misguided attempt at renaming everything Saint-Dominican or Dominican Creole en masse! Savvyjack23 ( talk) 03:51, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 01:52, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 00:08, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
The name should be changed, it is a play on the word "Dominican", indirectly suggesting that this group has something to do with Dominican Republic or it's people, but it has nothing to do with DR. "Dominican creoles" also never referred to themselves as "Dominican creoles", nor did other people referred to them as such. Once Haitian independence came, the people renamed their country- giving it the current name Haiti and started to refer to themselves as Haitians. Before that event, the colony was called St. Domingue (and the eastern spanish colony was called Santo Domingo). In French St. Domingue, there was far less mixing and intermingling between races in comparasion to the spanish side of the island which had a large mixed population early on in the coloinal period. St Domingue's white French probably saw themselves as white/French first and very different from St Domingue's enslaved black African majority, they did'nt see themselves as one group under the name "Dominican creoles", they were just French and African. Not only did they not see themselves the same in St Domingue, that colony was completely different ancestrally and culturally from it's eastern spanish neighbor Santo Domingo. A good name would be St Dominguans (to distinguish from the very different Dominican people), or just make it simple and put "Colonial-era Haitians". MonsenorNouel ( talk) 19:03, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
Dominican Republic → République dominicaine in French. (Note: Domingo is not the same word as "Dominicana" (Dominican) in Spanish even though they both derive from
Saint Dominic.)
Dominica → Dominique; Dominican → Dominiquais in French. ─In this instance, English rules merely replaced the "qu" (k) with a "c" (Latinized "c", opposed to a Germanicized "k") for the existing word "Dominican".
Domingue is used in both English and French lexicons. Domingais in French → Dominguan .. NOT Dominican.
Again Aearthrise, none of these are WP:COMMONNAME and the plethora of works cited in this article; I checked them all. Saint-Dominican/Saint Dominican/Dominican in terms of the French colony of Saint-Domingue are for the large part WP:OR by your inclusions and if supported, are by a very small minority of Americans who wrote about it much much later via non-fiction publications who did not understand the French to English grammar translation. "Saint-Dominguan" or "Dominguan" aren't even WP:COMMONNAME. It was just Creole. If we needed to give it a classification, it would be what the article is named as "Saint-Domingue Creoles". However, this still would not supersede the "Haitian Creoles" and/or Haitians. For the majority of people from Saint-Domingue, these Creoles became Haitians by name. So by your article naming, did the history of these peoples begin in 1804? As mentioned earlier, Toussaint Louverture did not even see Haiti (died in 1802) but he is a Haitian Revolutionary. Furthermore, there are references that refer to the earlier peoples of Saint-Domingue as Haitians in modern sources. (See: Jean Baptiste Point du Sable, who has a plaque in Chicago stating he was "Haitian-born". here Also, sparsely referenced as "Haitian" here, here and here.
John James Audubon was born in Les Cayes, Saint Domingue and is often referenced to being born in Haiti without Saint-Domingue anywhere to be found. Even by his own organization and/or enthusiasts at Audubon.org
The same are conducted for peoples like Christopher Columbus who was Genovese (from Genoa) but are said to be "Italian" even though the Republic of Italy didn't exist and wasn't yet united. These groups came from various Kingdoms in this Italic area.
The articles were fine by simply stating " a Creole from Saint-Domingue" and if we (editors) were to use modern terminology they would all have sources in their biographies stating that each and everyone pertaining to the French side of the island were "Haitian" as WP:COMMONNAME.
You do understand (as in the case of Italy), that "Haiti" is the native name for the entire island before Columbus' arrival right? That the name was restored as the aboriginal name by Jean-Jacques Dessalines. A name that predates both Santo Domingo/San Domingo, Saint-Domingue and Hispaniola which the latter was put into official use for the whole island by Americans who occupied both lands, dividing both countries up (Haiti/DR) after setting official borders in the early 20th century. Savvyjack23 ( talk) 23:23, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
Aearthrise, among the plethora of images you have either used in various articles and/or uploaded via Commons of 'Agostino Brunias' work allegedly pertaining to Saint-Domingue are all in regards to DOMINCA, the French and English colony! Here is an example: [ 1]; British History museum description: Free Natives of Dominica
"West Indian" even though it can be attributed to all the Caribbean nations, is mostly a modern-day application for English-speaking Caribbean nations.
I must say, I am overwhelmed by your "contributions", which have largely gone unchecked for more than 2 years in a misguided attempt at renaming everything Saint-Dominican or Dominican Creole en masse! Savvyjack23 ( talk) 03:51, 19 March 2024 (UTC)