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Should we clean up this discussion page? It's incredibly long and seems to, for the most part, contain information which is no longer useful. Tyrel Haveman 03:31, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
This page was probably created improperly at some point judging from the page history, but given the ridiculously high number of times it has been moved around, I can't figure out where the original history is. When I followed the link on the main page, it was originally a double redirect ultimately leading to a red link. If an admin can figure out what happened from the "what links here", that'd be great. Jibbajabba 16:43, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
http://www.msha.gov/MSHAINFO/FactSheets/MSHAFCT8.HTM Since this has indeed "claim[ed] more than five lives", incident is indeed technically wrong.
How many moves are we up to now? -- Dandelions 16:51, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Whoever renamed this page from Sago Mine Accident to Sago Mine Tradgedy [sic], you want to at least spell Tragedy correctly? Crunch 16:24, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
-- Silverhand 14:39, 4 January 2006 (UTC)-- Silverhand 14:39, 4 January 2006 (UTC)==Diagram== It should be a simple job to recreate this image for this article. violet/riga (t) 09:40, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
This word seems POV (how is this a disaster but not, say, September 11 or last year's tsunami), and I think it should be changed to "accident". I realize that all other articles on mine accidents end in "disaster", and I've suggested changing them at WP:RM, but this article is on the front page and so I think it needs expedited action. Also note that mining accident is at "accident". ~~ N ( t/ c) 17:22, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
"It may be the state's worst mining disaster since three workers were killed in 2003 while drilling an air shaft near Cameron."
Maybe I'm missing something, but since there are 13 miners involved here, wouldn't it potentially be worse than the 2003 incident, meaning you'd have to go back to some earlier incident? Siradia 21:48, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
Both images appear to be copyvios; they are AP photos taken from the Fox News web site (images #5 and #9 in the photo essay at that link). Both have been duly reported. Aaron 21:49, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
In line with naming conventions this page should be moved to Sago Mine accident or more specifically 2006 Sago Mine accident.-- nixie 05:34, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
01:01, January 4, 2006 Desk Jockey (rv: as of 237 EST, 12 are alive and 1 is dead; previous two edits are incorrect) ???? I'm watching CNN TV and they've interviewed 3 people who heard directly from the CEO of the mining company that only one lived. - Tyrel
Sorry, the webpages hadn't updated yet. I was wrong. Desk Jockey 08:19, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
I tried to type this live when watching CNN, press conf from Ben Hatfield, President of Intl Coal Group: "... mine accident. Around 11:45pm on Tuesday evening, rescue teams succeeded in... the 12 remaining minors.... initial reports indicated multiple survivors... miscommunication... only survivor... Randal McCloy .. Our hearts go out to the families of .... This is certainly not the outcome we had hoped for and prayed for." When asked about the initial numbers, "There was no such word from the company itself.... that information spread like wildfire, but it was bad information."
"I think we can confirm with certainty that the miners survived for some time."
CO levels was "in the 300 to 400 range when our rescue teams reached the location".
With regards to the "I have no idea who made that announcement, but it was not an announcement that Intl Goal Group had authorized."
"Their injuries seem to be related to the carbon monoxide poisoning."
They were all (12) in one place.
Other self notes: A surgion at the hospital had mentioned in an earlier phone interview with CNN that Mr. McCloy did NOT have elevated carbon monoxide levels. This is very interesting, since they were all in the same place.. how did only 11 of them suffer from carbon monoxide? -- Tyrel
AP and Reuters did NOT directly report that 12 were alive, they attributed that info to the families. 140.247.243.128 08:51, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm trying to get this info in as fast as possible. I hope somebody is getting these press conferences. Please post quotes if you have them. Bwilder1998 10:12, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
I think we have most of the major information form the 3am press conference. Hatfield said to watch for another around 10am Wednesday, but he wouldn't give a firm time. Bwilder1998 10:29, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Tyrel- while it is interesting that he did not have elevated levels, i believe that McCoy was closer than the other miners, while they were more or less "together", they were not located in exactly the same spot. Mac Domhnaill 00:11, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
I think a lot of these times are not quite accurate, especially the times when the various reports were coming in. Bwilder1998 10:11, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Some one may want to post the front covers of this morning's USA Today, New York Post and New York Daily News. All three covers have giant "They're alive!"-style headlines. I'd post them myself, but due to an earlier angry response from someone regarding me tagging earlier images on the page as copyvios, I think there's a risk of an edit war starting if I'm the one that uploads and posts the images. Also, from what little I've seen of this thus far (I've only been awake about twenty minutes as I type this), I have to say the live news coverage has a major league CYA aspect to it. Is anyone else getting the feeling that it's someone in the news media that's at least partially responsible (and perhaps largely responsible) for this "information" spreading like wildfile amongst the miners' families in the the rescue camp? If so, I think this angle deserves its own section. But I'd like some consenus before I go down that path. -- Aaron 10:02, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
I've been watching this for 5 hours, and I have to agree. The initial reports seemed to come almost exclusively from family members and those around them. The TV reports mentioned that there was not yet official confirmation, but the overwhelming implication was that the reports had been confirmed. Bwilder1998 10:11, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Moments ago on Fox, Mike Emmanuel (who is at the site) was just talking about how his cell phone and Blackberry are (I'm parphrashing here) "useless here and just should be smashed ... if you want to make a living in West Virginia, you have to [be a coal miner]" ... just a disgusting elitist attitude. (Hey Mike, there's no cell coverage because you're in the middle of a coal mine, not because you've traveled west of Newark.) I also saw some tape where one of the first questions yelled to the families by a reporter was "Do you blame the governor?" And the amount of repetitive replays of the same few seconds of tape of family members blaming anybody except the news media is rapidly increasing as the newsroom day shifts start to arrive at work this morning. I'm rapidly becoming convinced that the news media is far more responsible for this than they're letting on. -- Aaron 10:24, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Bill Hemmer on Fox just admitted live on the air that he felt some responsibility and "is ashamed" at how the news media has handled this (though he was quite willing to share the blame with the coal company, governor and others), and that a number of familiy members were hurling verbal attacks at the news media as well (though we haven't seen any of that tape). I think we have enough evidence to go forward. How do you cite TV news reports that you can't link to?; this is the first current event I've dealt with on Wikipedia. -- Aaron 10:33, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure the content under "Conduct of the news media" is relevant to the heading. I think we need to address the media's responsibility, but right now there is a lot of other info lumped in there. Bwilder1998 10:46, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
I do think we should tread lightly on this topic for a few hours to see where this goes. For a current event article, I hate to see it skewed too heavily toward blaming the media. Since we are getting most of our information from them, it is easy for us to assign unbalanced blame. I'm sure blame is due, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. Thoughts? Bwilder1998 11:23, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
My view in this matter is that the competition between news-outlets for popular (rating/sales improving news) is sufficiently high that vertification of sources has essentially gone out the window.
There was an initial possibly blameless failure of communication which led to the initial meme that twelve were alive; this somehow leaked out and then was taken up by all the major news-outlets who fed off each other and I suspect embellished the news to make it more news-worthy (and less blatantly a copy from another site), which led to each news-outlet convincing the others that they'd independently obtained the news (since their stories appeared to "materially" differ). This combined with their fundamental desire to publish the news (because it will improve ratings/sales) which of course directly attacks proper journalistic practises, such as verification of sources. In most cases this doesn't matter - indeed, in most cases, I suspect almost all viewers never even know or notice errors in news (there was a recent example where I think USA Today ran an article where they said that since only one Medal of Honour has been awarded in the current Iraq conflict, were US soliders now less brave? in fact, there have been at least five awards and the article's premise was flatly wrong - but who reading that article knew that? and how many who read and assumed it was true later found out the article was factually incorrect?) - but in this case, it mattered a very great deal indeed.
With such practises (lack of vertification, fundamental bias and wish to publish popular news, embellishing news) is is inevitable that today's story, or one very like it, would sooner or later occur. Toby Douglass 13:26, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Although I respect Hemmer's comments (and agree to an extent), I'm not sure if they should be left in. From a writing standpoint, it seems to me that it just comes out of nowhere.
Maybe it (and the whole topic) should be moved to separate paragraph or subsection on the media. Hypothetically speaking, if the cameras and reporters weren't there, this still could have happened. Amnewsboy 00:46, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm confused. How is the McClure incident similar to the Sago Mine Accident? I'm not quite following how this rated a "See Also" tag. -- Silverhand 14:39, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Would an admin please lock this page from page moves for the time being to prevent further confusion? Thanks. Jibbajabba 16:53, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Going by List_of_disasters#Mining_disasters, it seems disaster is the status quo. It is also an official term, so is suitably eutral. If it isn't then "accident" is far more specific than "incident". ed g2s • talk 17:47, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
The page is move protected, do not move the page until the dicussion is resolved, even if you are an sysop. ed g2s • talk 18:17, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Wow, not to get all preachy, but wasn't a lot of this unecessary? Once someone found the government definition of "disaster" and it was clear that the Sago "thing" fit that AND once it was determined that Wikipedia's category is also called "Mining Disasters," was there any doubt that this should be called Sago Mine disaster? To tack on the 2006 in the midst of all the chaos just seemed to be stirring the pot. Couldn't we have come back later and tacked on the 2006 (which is, in any case, not consistent with other articles in the Mining Disasters category -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mining_disasters)? Crunch 21:23, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Since no Ben Hatfield article exists (and therefore, no picture), I figured I'd get one of him talking at his press conference. For now, feel free to use Image:HatfieldSago.JPG if/when providing information about Hatfield/Int'l. Coal Group's response to the disaster. appzter 20:38, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
is occasionally removed by people, either silently, or claiming that it violates WP:V. Please note that the paragraph's claim is that "some have suggested X", and that this is sourced to the original article. The paragraph does not claim it to be true, it only reports on other people's views, which is how WP:NPOV works.
Thanks, Sdedeo ( tips) 02:18, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Neither of these points are germane. The article is reporting on the claims, not making them. The blogs are not being used to source facts. Your interpretation of wikipedia policy would mean that wikipedia could not discuss anything at all related to blogs or the blogosphere. It could not, for example, discuss claims made by blogs during memogate.
Again, not to repeat myself but: the paragraph is only describing the claims made by others, and the reaction to those claims. It is not asserting those claims which is why WP:V does not apply.
Sdedeo ( tips) 14:47, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
That's the kind of thing that get's Wikipedia in trouble. Which neighbor, which miner, told which media? It's hearsay at best and its not sourced.
There's also a ton of explanatory information about the mine's safety record at www.msha.gov. --ben
I googled "because of the idiots of the mine" and the second result was a Washington Post article with the quote [2]. So I guess I'll put it back in? Sdedeo ( tips) 23:07, 7 January 2006 (UTC) Eh, just read the article; the quote is really hearsay, and it's hard to see where it belongs. Anyway, that's the source, in case someone cares! Sdedeo ( tips) 23:10, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
Radios are reporting that some relatives already want to start frivolous lawsuits for millions of dollars damages over the miscommunication. Could someone extend the article to cover this topic? Anything like this is considered absurd and outrageous in most places outside the USA. 195.70.32.136 09:37, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Someone should definitely edit that biased section referring to the 'corporate fatcats', etc.
Is it necessary to have an entire section named Survivor that just lists Randal L. McCloy, Jr and his age? I understand the desire to be parallel to the Victims list, but details of McCloy surviving, his rescue and his recovery are included throughout the entire article. The Victims section is the only place where the victims names and ages documented. I think it's a different thing and I think the Survivor section is quite uncessary. Crunch 00:36, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
A photo of the note the miners wrote can be found here [3]. The note should get mentioned in the article. Also, the media is reporting that it says, among other things, "I just went to sleep".
As you can see in the picture, the writing isn't very clear (perhaps due to low oxygen, other toxins, and maybe it was written in total darkness; I don't know). If you ask me, it says "I just want to sleep". That makes a more-logical sentence but also makes for a less-peaceful story. I'd guess that they weren't able to think clearly at that point, so an illogical sentence like "I just went to sleep" is understandable, but it looks to me like these countless articles are jumping to conclusions. It says "I weet to sleep" as much as it says "I want to sleep" or "I went to sleep". — BenFrantzDale 19:25, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure that the large chemical formula in the Explosion section adds anything useful. It's probably not easily understandable by most readers and the phenomenon it's trying to illustrate might better be explained in text. Crunch 22:59, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
In all honesty, do we really need a whole section rehash the work of Anderson Cooper and CNN? He was one of about 50 CNNers there, and just a fraction of the entire media response. Can this be reduced to note, yeah, Anderson Cooper stayed on the air for hours? All this does it repeat details already on the page and pay tribute to the CNN god. --Ben
That's not even true. Cooper didn't even arrive until Tuesday afternoon, just hours before the first miner was found.
"OK. Thanks, I agree. The story is already too long and more info is going to be added about the cause of the explosion, so I think we can edit this down even more. It came from an entire separate article on CNN's role . Crunch 21:18, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
Another factual point is that CNN didn't even break the story. AP write Vicki Smith in Morgantown, did at 11:27 a.m., Jan. 2. She issued this news alert across the wire: TALLMANSVILLE, W.Va. (AP) - An underground explosion at an Upshur County coal mine has trapped 13 miners, a county emergency official said.
That was followed by three or four updates before CNN even started reporting it. And, by the way, CNN was picking up the AP's information. ~~Ben
Is giving undue weight to Bush admin enemies and opinions. MSHA has answered some of these claims on the Web site and these should be added...
OK, I've gone through and added the MSHA responses in two paragraphs, citing that source. Some of the material in the pages perhaps could also go in the "safety violations" section earlier in the article. In any case, thank you for pointing out the MSHA page, which is very germane. I've gone ahead now and removed the NPOV tag on that section. Sdedeo ( tips) 23:04, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
This article is getting way too long, it needs more subheads and categorizing on the page to make it navigable... can some sections be grouped under broader headings? --Ben
I feel as if the media response section somewhat denigrates all of the expansive breaking coverage CNN provided concerning this tragedy with both true information and misinformation as it broke. I think it is incorrect and without merit to sort of make all of the network coverage "equal" when CNN obviously outshined its competitors...I made it a point to watch all 24-hour news channels and MSNBC and FOX News did not stand up, eventhough they were all present along with CNN. Anderson Cooper deserves his own section, although I'm not sure how encylcopedic that would be. -- Caponer 03:18, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
Hi all. The intro to the article is very long. I think it should be about two paragraphs. Much of the info is repeated in later sections. In general, the intro should give the bare facts and outline; the rest should appear under later subheadings. Sdedeo ( tips) 04:13, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
Representative Capito is from the Buchannon area. Wouldn't say exactly that she only came by for a photo opportunity.
I just started the Ben Hatfield page in case anyone wants to work on that. Thanks.– Clpalmore
When reversing an edit, please be careful when reverting to an earlier version that you don't also throw out good changes. Some one correctly reverted the change of the mine's location from Sago back to Tallmansville, but in the process also reverted a typo correction and one editor's reworking which was probably fine. Crunch 14:59, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure how notable this is. I cut the section down eliminating the quotes from Phelps which are all in the footnoted sources. That should be sufficient. Also, it's not the funeral. These will have all been held by then. It's some knd of memorial service.
I started working on consolidating and cleaning up this article, now that the story has stabilzied somewhat. The goals are:
I hope others are still interested in working on this article. -- Crunch 22:59, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
Considering the edit history, i'll leave this to someone else to fix.
There is a serious error in the section:
Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions (HELP) Committee government investigation
Perhaps because of all the moves, the section leaves an entirely wrong impression.
The names of Senators are listed, in connection with signing a letter.
Then a couple of paras are quoted, as if they were in the letter signed.
Then there is the link to the PDF of the letter.
http://rockefeller.senate.gov/news/2006/1-10-06%20Enzi-Kennedy%20Ltr.pdf
Here is the problem: the letter doesn't contain those paragraphs.
Those paragraphs come from a press release issued the next day.
http://rockefeller.senate.gov/news/2006/pr011106.html
Good work, everyone, it is great to see such a comprehensive overview!
See http://www.wvgazette.com/section/News/2006012332 -- Beth Wellington 02:34, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
And here i insert something related, for those interested in the content-- this is a new email list for folks interested in advocacy for the miners. I don't know if this is appropriate for the main page.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sago_outrage/
Can we remove the "2006" from the article title? No need to specify the year when there's only one, e.g., Oklahoma City bombing. Coffee 04:55, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
This article is a mess, with redundant statements being made again and again (for example, the conflicting reports on the body count). -- 70.108.56.178 10:16, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
On CO (Carbon Monoxide):"200 parts per million is the maximum considered safe" "the 400 parts per million tolerance of the human body" Which is the right one, 400 or 200 ppm? get the facts constitant or don't use them people. --Firehawk1717 20:29, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
The article now says, "Hatfield said that carbon monoxide levels in the area where the miners were found was in the range of 300-400 ppm when the rescue team arrived. This is near the safe threshold level to support life for 15 minutes." According to Carbon monoxide poisoning, 400 ppm causes "Frontal headache within one to two hours"; 800 ppm causes "Dizziness, nausea, and convulsions within 45 min; insensible within 2 hours"; 1,600 ppm causes "Headache, tachycardia, dizziness, and nausea within 20 min; death in less than 2 hours"; 3,200 ppm causes "Headache, dizziness and nausea in five to ten minutes. Death within 30 minutes." Assuming that Carbon monoxide poisoning is correct, 300-400 ppm is nowhere near the safe threshold level to support life for 15 minutes. Anomalocaris ( talk) 21:45, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
A look at the Dead external links page shows no less than thirteen dead links (Error 404) in this article. Someone familiar with the subject needs to go through with a chainsaw and do some pruning. -- Calton | Talk 00:47, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
I am proposing that we merge the article for Randal McCloy into this article. When the latter article was proposed for deletion over a year and a half ago, a number of the arguments for keeping it were based upon predictions that did not come true, that McCloy would "most likely will create more headline news" and "he could become more important in the near future" and "McCloy's testimony will be singularly important and historians from the far future will fairly need to look up his background more than many other people with accepted biographies in Wikipedia"; many others, meanwhile, already foresaw the article being merged back into the article on the mine disaster.
Well, a year and a half later, McCloy's only claim to encyclopedic notability is still that he survived the mine disaster -- which means that he has no encyclopedic notability apart from the mine disaster. According to Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons#Articles about living people notable only for one event, "If reliable sources only cover the person in the context of a particular event, then a separate biography is unlikely to be warranted. Marginal biographies on people with no independent notability can give undue weight to the events in the context of the individual, create redundancy and additional maintenance overhead, and cause problems for our neutral point of view policy." This pair of articles seems to have proved that point: The article on McCloy is almost wholly about his process of rehabilitation, which despite its significance to the people involved is not encyclopedically notable (do we have articles on the rehabilitation of the victims of non-notable car crashes?) Meanwhile, a fact which was extremely significant to the disaster has yet to find its way into the article on the disaster -- why? Because the fact ("In late April 2006, McCloy revealed that four of the air packs failed in the tragedy.") was added to the article on McCloy, where apparently no one noticed it, or if they did, failed to realize that it had not made its way into the article on the disaster. (It is unsourced in the other article but it should be easy enough to fix that.) A merge is the right thing to do. -- 192.250.34.161 19:48, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
So folks, this event occured roughly a year and a half ago. I opted to comment here due to a comment (at the time of writing) at the article dealing with the hot potato of Old lady farts, driver loose control and crash at Glasgow Airport (OMG OMG!!!) (to be taken lightly). I used to be an active editor, but lost interest, mostly due to the internal politics going on around here and partly due to the skewed imprints "newsworthy" (own emphasis naturally) events in history leave here.
My question is, is there an editor to be found here that would be willing to conclude that yes, this incident was indeed notable as it took place in a time and in a nation that one would expect to have done away with risk factors etc. in order to that such an event should not be able to take place at all; yet be willing to cut/and or slim the text as to not give it undue weight (or perhaps someone with knowledge of such matters could go on about and expand for example Millfield Mine disaster, Almy mine, 1909 Cherry Mine disaster etc.
I doubt there are people to be found that are willing to cut material from such articles, despite that after all such events as this have not left that deep marks in history. As a whole, active editors at wikipedia might benefit from reading essays such as WP:RECENTISM and bit more measure of self-restraint when it comes to covering the world around them. Not meaning to to step on anyone's toes, happy editing folks, 85.131.16.162 21:10, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I was fairly active editing this article at the time of the event. But left due to exactly what you mentioned. I made a note to come back in a few years when people no longer cared and edit the article which I expected would have been left in a bloated, somewhat unreadable mess in the wake of several months of frantic editing after everyone went home. And, that is indeed what happened. And that is what I'm starting to do now. I don't object to people jumping on the recentism bandwagon and going hog wild on the latest event (see Colorado balloon incident for the article du jour in that realm). The bloat and debris is probably both necessary and unavoidable given the size of the Wikipedia editor community. But the almost predictable end result is an article that needs to be revisited and vastly streamlined after the excitement of the party is over. -- Crunch ( talk) 10:58, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
I strongly recommend removing all of the legislative text. It's extensive unnecessary information that should appear as a recommended link. Or at least, let the article simply mention federal legislation was inspired by the event, but don't include that entire text! 66.218.46.140 04:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)ninetigerr
Image:Lynetteroby.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
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BetacommandBot ( talk) 21:51, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Image:Nytimes sago mine2.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 14:08, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
I am removing the claim of divine retribution from the article on the grounds that pretty much anything the Westboro Baptist Church says is automatically WP:FRINGE. Andrew ( talk) 21:17, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
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IF anyone is actually interested, has anyone thought to add the name of the mine this happened in? It does make a difference. Since the whole world likes to believe we just show up to a hole in the earth and shovel the black rock, you might want to add the actual mine name.....At Sago, at the abandoned site, is the Grand Badger Mine No 1.......by the Badger Coal Company...does anyone here know? Coal town guy ( talk) 00:18, 28 August 2018 (UTC)
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Should we clean up this discussion page? It's incredibly long and seems to, for the most part, contain information which is no longer useful. Tyrel Haveman 03:31, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
This page was probably created improperly at some point judging from the page history, but given the ridiculously high number of times it has been moved around, I can't figure out where the original history is. When I followed the link on the main page, it was originally a double redirect ultimately leading to a red link. If an admin can figure out what happened from the "what links here", that'd be great. Jibbajabba 16:43, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
http://www.msha.gov/MSHAINFO/FactSheets/MSHAFCT8.HTM Since this has indeed "claim[ed] more than five lives", incident is indeed technically wrong.
How many moves are we up to now? -- Dandelions 16:51, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Whoever renamed this page from Sago Mine Accident to Sago Mine Tradgedy [sic], you want to at least spell Tragedy correctly? Crunch 16:24, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
-- Silverhand 14:39, 4 January 2006 (UTC)-- Silverhand 14:39, 4 January 2006 (UTC)==Diagram== It should be a simple job to recreate this image for this article. violet/riga (t) 09:40, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
This word seems POV (how is this a disaster but not, say, September 11 or last year's tsunami), and I think it should be changed to "accident". I realize that all other articles on mine accidents end in "disaster", and I've suggested changing them at WP:RM, but this article is on the front page and so I think it needs expedited action. Also note that mining accident is at "accident". ~~ N ( t/ c) 17:22, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
"It may be the state's worst mining disaster since three workers were killed in 2003 while drilling an air shaft near Cameron."
Maybe I'm missing something, but since there are 13 miners involved here, wouldn't it potentially be worse than the 2003 incident, meaning you'd have to go back to some earlier incident? Siradia 21:48, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
Both images appear to be copyvios; they are AP photos taken from the Fox News web site (images #5 and #9 in the photo essay at that link). Both have been duly reported. Aaron 21:49, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
In line with naming conventions this page should be moved to Sago Mine accident or more specifically 2006 Sago Mine accident.-- nixie 05:34, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
01:01, January 4, 2006 Desk Jockey (rv: as of 237 EST, 12 are alive and 1 is dead; previous two edits are incorrect) ???? I'm watching CNN TV and they've interviewed 3 people who heard directly from the CEO of the mining company that only one lived. - Tyrel
Sorry, the webpages hadn't updated yet. I was wrong. Desk Jockey 08:19, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
I tried to type this live when watching CNN, press conf from Ben Hatfield, President of Intl Coal Group: "... mine accident. Around 11:45pm on Tuesday evening, rescue teams succeeded in... the 12 remaining minors.... initial reports indicated multiple survivors... miscommunication... only survivor... Randal McCloy .. Our hearts go out to the families of .... This is certainly not the outcome we had hoped for and prayed for." When asked about the initial numbers, "There was no such word from the company itself.... that information spread like wildfire, but it was bad information."
"I think we can confirm with certainty that the miners survived for some time."
CO levels was "in the 300 to 400 range when our rescue teams reached the location".
With regards to the "I have no idea who made that announcement, but it was not an announcement that Intl Goal Group had authorized."
"Their injuries seem to be related to the carbon monoxide poisoning."
They were all (12) in one place.
Other self notes: A surgion at the hospital had mentioned in an earlier phone interview with CNN that Mr. McCloy did NOT have elevated carbon monoxide levels. This is very interesting, since they were all in the same place.. how did only 11 of them suffer from carbon monoxide? -- Tyrel
AP and Reuters did NOT directly report that 12 were alive, they attributed that info to the families. 140.247.243.128 08:51, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm trying to get this info in as fast as possible. I hope somebody is getting these press conferences. Please post quotes if you have them. Bwilder1998 10:12, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
I think we have most of the major information form the 3am press conference. Hatfield said to watch for another around 10am Wednesday, but he wouldn't give a firm time. Bwilder1998 10:29, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Tyrel- while it is interesting that he did not have elevated levels, i believe that McCoy was closer than the other miners, while they were more or less "together", they were not located in exactly the same spot. Mac Domhnaill 00:11, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
I think a lot of these times are not quite accurate, especially the times when the various reports were coming in. Bwilder1998 10:11, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Some one may want to post the front covers of this morning's USA Today, New York Post and New York Daily News. All three covers have giant "They're alive!"-style headlines. I'd post them myself, but due to an earlier angry response from someone regarding me tagging earlier images on the page as copyvios, I think there's a risk of an edit war starting if I'm the one that uploads and posts the images. Also, from what little I've seen of this thus far (I've only been awake about twenty minutes as I type this), I have to say the live news coverage has a major league CYA aspect to it. Is anyone else getting the feeling that it's someone in the news media that's at least partially responsible (and perhaps largely responsible) for this "information" spreading like wildfile amongst the miners' families in the the rescue camp? If so, I think this angle deserves its own section. But I'd like some consenus before I go down that path. -- Aaron 10:02, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
I've been watching this for 5 hours, and I have to agree. The initial reports seemed to come almost exclusively from family members and those around them. The TV reports mentioned that there was not yet official confirmation, but the overwhelming implication was that the reports had been confirmed. Bwilder1998 10:11, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Moments ago on Fox, Mike Emmanuel (who is at the site) was just talking about how his cell phone and Blackberry are (I'm parphrashing here) "useless here and just should be smashed ... if you want to make a living in West Virginia, you have to [be a coal miner]" ... just a disgusting elitist attitude. (Hey Mike, there's no cell coverage because you're in the middle of a coal mine, not because you've traveled west of Newark.) I also saw some tape where one of the first questions yelled to the families by a reporter was "Do you blame the governor?" And the amount of repetitive replays of the same few seconds of tape of family members blaming anybody except the news media is rapidly increasing as the newsroom day shifts start to arrive at work this morning. I'm rapidly becoming convinced that the news media is far more responsible for this than they're letting on. -- Aaron 10:24, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Bill Hemmer on Fox just admitted live on the air that he felt some responsibility and "is ashamed" at how the news media has handled this (though he was quite willing to share the blame with the coal company, governor and others), and that a number of familiy members were hurling verbal attacks at the news media as well (though we haven't seen any of that tape). I think we have enough evidence to go forward. How do you cite TV news reports that you can't link to?; this is the first current event I've dealt with on Wikipedia. -- Aaron 10:33, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure the content under "Conduct of the news media" is relevant to the heading. I think we need to address the media's responsibility, but right now there is a lot of other info lumped in there. Bwilder1998 10:46, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
I do think we should tread lightly on this topic for a few hours to see where this goes. For a current event article, I hate to see it skewed too heavily toward blaming the media. Since we are getting most of our information from them, it is easy for us to assign unbalanced blame. I'm sure blame is due, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. Thoughts? Bwilder1998 11:23, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
My view in this matter is that the competition between news-outlets for popular (rating/sales improving news) is sufficiently high that vertification of sources has essentially gone out the window.
There was an initial possibly blameless failure of communication which led to the initial meme that twelve were alive; this somehow leaked out and then was taken up by all the major news-outlets who fed off each other and I suspect embellished the news to make it more news-worthy (and less blatantly a copy from another site), which led to each news-outlet convincing the others that they'd independently obtained the news (since their stories appeared to "materially" differ). This combined with their fundamental desire to publish the news (because it will improve ratings/sales) which of course directly attacks proper journalistic practises, such as verification of sources. In most cases this doesn't matter - indeed, in most cases, I suspect almost all viewers never even know or notice errors in news (there was a recent example where I think USA Today ran an article where they said that since only one Medal of Honour has been awarded in the current Iraq conflict, were US soliders now less brave? in fact, there have been at least five awards and the article's premise was flatly wrong - but who reading that article knew that? and how many who read and assumed it was true later found out the article was factually incorrect?) - but in this case, it mattered a very great deal indeed.
With such practises (lack of vertification, fundamental bias and wish to publish popular news, embellishing news) is is inevitable that today's story, or one very like it, would sooner or later occur. Toby Douglass 13:26, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Although I respect Hemmer's comments (and agree to an extent), I'm not sure if they should be left in. From a writing standpoint, it seems to me that it just comes out of nowhere.
Maybe it (and the whole topic) should be moved to separate paragraph or subsection on the media. Hypothetically speaking, if the cameras and reporters weren't there, this still could have happened. Amnewsboy 00:46, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm confused. How is the McClure incident similar to the Sago Mine Accident? I'm not quite following how this rated a "See Also" tag. -- Silverhand 14:39, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Would an admin please lock this page from page moves for the time being to prevent further confusion? Thanks. Jibbajabba 16:53, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Going by List_of_disasters#Mining_disasters, it seems disaster is the status quo. It is also an official term, so is suitably eutral. If it isn't then "accident" is far more specific than "incident". ed g2s • talk 17:47, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
The page is move protected, do not move the page until the dicussion is resolved, even if you are an sysop. ed g2s • talk 18:17, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Wow, not to get all preachy, but wasn't a lot of this unecessary? Once someone found the government definition of "disaster" and it was clear that the Sago "thing" fit that AND once it was determined that Wikipedia's category is also called "Mining Disasters," was there any doubt that this should be called Sago Mine disaster? To tack on the 2006 in the midst of all the chaos just seemed to be stirring the pot. Couldn't we have come back later and tacked on the 2006 (which is, in any case, not consistent with other articles in the Mining Disasters category -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mining_disasters)? Crunch 21:23, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
Since no Ben Hatfield article exists (and therefore, no picture), I figured I'd get one of him talking at his press conference. For now, feel free to use Image:HatfieldSago.JPG if/when providing information about Hatfield/Int'l. Coal Group's response to the disaster. appzter 20:38, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
is occasionally removed by people, either silently, or claiming that it violates WP:V. Please note that the paragraph's claim is that "some have suggested X", and that this is sourced to the original article. The paragraph does not claim it to be true, it only reports on other people's views, which is how WP:NPOV works.
Thanks, Sdedeo ( tips) 02:18, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Neither of these points are germane. The article is reporting on the claims, not making them. The blogs are not being used to source facts. Your interpretation of wikipedia policy would mean that wikipedia could not discuss anything at all related to blogs or the blogosphere. It could not, for example, discuss claims made by blogs during memogate.
Again, not to repeat myself but: the paragraph is only describing the claims made by others, and the reaction to those claims. It is not asserting those claims which is why WP:V does not apply.
Sdedeo ( tips) 14:47, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
That's the kind of thing that get's Wikipedia in trouble. Which neighbor, which miner, told which media? It's hearsay at best and its not sourced.
There's also a ton of explanatory information about the mine's safety record at www.msha.gov. --ben
I googled "because of the idiots of the mine" and the second result was a Washington Post article with the quote [2]. So I guess I'll put it back in? Sdedeo ( tips) 23:07, 7 January 2006 (UTC) Eh, just read the article; the quote is really hearsay, and it's hard to see where it belongs. Anyway, that's the source, in case someone cares! Sdedeo ( tips) 23:10, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
Radios are reporting that some relatives already want to start frivolous lawsuits for millions of dollars damages over the miscommunication. Could someone extend the article to cover this topic? Anything like this is considered absurd and outrageous in most places outside the USA. 195.70.32.136 09:37, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
Someone should definitely edit that biased section referring to the 'corporate fatcats', etc.
Is it necessary to have an entire section named Survivor that just lists Randal L. McCloy, Jr and his age? I understand the desire to be parallel to the Victims list, but details of McCloy surviving, his rescue and his recovery are included throughout the entire article. The Victims section is the only place where the victims names and ages documented. I think it's a different thing and I think the Survivor section is quite uncessary. Crunch 00:36, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
A photo of the note the miners wrote can be found here [3]. The note should get mentioned in the article. Also, the media is reporting that it says, among other things, "I just went to sleep".
As you can see in the picture, the writing isn't very clear (perhaps due to low oxygen, other toxins, and maybe it was written in total darkness; I don't know). If you ask me, it says "I just want to sleep". That makes a more-logical sentence but also makes for a less-peaceful story. I'd guess that they weren't able to think clearly at that point, so an illogical sentence like "I just went to sleep" is understandable, but it looks to me like these countless articles are jumping to conclusions. It says "I weet to sleep" as much as it says "I want to sleep" or "I went to sleep". — BenFrantzDale 19:25, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure that the large chemical formula in the Explosion section adds anything useful. It's probably not easily understandable by most readers and the phenomenon it's trying to illustrate might better be explained in text. Crunch 22:59, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
In all honesty, do we really need a whole section rehash the work of Anderson Cooper and CNN? He was one of about 50 CNNers there, and just a fraction of the entire media response. Can this be reduced to note, yeah, Anderson Cooper stayed on the air for hours? All this does it repeat details already on the page and pay tribute to the CNN god. --Ben
That's not even true. Cooper didn't even arrive until Tuesday afternoon, just hours before the first miner was found.
"OK. Thanks, I agree. The story is already too long and more info is going to be added about the cause of the explosion, so I think we can edit this down even more. It came from an entire separate article on CNN's role . Crunch 21:18, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
Another factual point is that CNN didn't even break the story. AP write Vicki Smith in Morgantown, did at 11:27 a.m., Jan. 2. She issued this news alert across the wire: TALLMANSVILLE, W.Va. (AP) - An underground explosion at an Upshur County coal mine has trapped 13 miners, a county emergency official said.
That was followed by three or four updates before CNN even started reporting it. And, by the way, CNN was picking up the AP's information. ~~Ben
Is giving undue weight to Bush admin enemies and opinions. MSHA has answered some of these claims on the Web site and these should be added...
OK, I've gone through and added the MSHA responses in two paragraphs, citing that source. Some of the material in the pages perhaps could also go in the "safety violations" section earlier in the article. In any case, thank you for pointing out the MSHA page, which is very germane. I've gone ahead now and removed the NPOV tag on that section. Sdedeo ( tips) 23:04, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
This article is getting way too long, it needs more subheads and categorizing on the page to make it navigable... can some sections be grouped under broader headings? --Ben
I feel as if the media response section somewhat denigrates all of the expansive breaking coverage CNN provided concerning this tragedy with both true information and misinformation as it broke. I think it is incorrect and without merit to sort of make all of the network coverage "equal" when CNN obviously outshined its competitors...I made it a point to watch all 24-hour news channels and MSNBC and FOX News did not stand up, eventhough they were all present along with CNN. Anderson Cooper deserves his own section, although I'm not sure how encylcopedic that would be. -- Caponer 03:18, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
Hi all. The intro to the article is very long. I think it should be about two paragraphs. Much of the info is repeated in later sections. In general, the intro should give the bare facts and outline; the rest should appear under later subheadings. Sdedeo ( tips) 04:13, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
Representative Capito is from the Buchannon area. Wouldn't say exactly that she only came by for a photo opportunity.
I just started the Ben Hatfield page in case anyone wants to work on that. Thanks.– Clpalmore
When reversing an edit, please be careful when reverting to an earlier version that you don't also throw out good changes. Some one correctly reverted the change of the mine's location from Sago back to Tallmansville, but in the process also reverted a typo correction and one editor's reworking which was probably fine. Crunch 14:59, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure how notable this is. I cut the section down eliminating the quotes from Phelps which are all in the footnoted sources. That should be sufficient. Also, it's not the funeral. These will have all been held by then. It's some knd of memorial service.
I started working on consolidating and cleaning up this article, now that the story has stabilzied somewhat. The goals are:
I hope others are still interested in working on this article. -- Crunch 22:59, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
Considering the edit history, i'll leave this to someone else to fix.
There is a serious error in the section:
Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions (HELP) Committee government investigation
Perhaps because of all the moves, the section leaves an entirely wrong impression.
The names of Senators are listed, in connection with signing a letter.
Then a couple of paras are quoted, as if they were in the letter signed.
Then there is the link to the PDF of the letter.
http://rockefeller.senate.gov/news/2006/1-10-06%20Enzi-Kennedy%20Ltr.pdf
Here is the problem: the letter doesn't contain those paragraphs.
Those paragraphs come from a press release issued the next day.
http://rockefeller.senate.gov/news/2006/pr011106.html
Good work, everyone, it is great to see such a comprehensive overview!
See http://www.wvgazette.com/section/News/2006012332 -- Beth Wellington 02:34, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
And here i insert something related, for those interested in the content-- this is a new email list for folks interested in advocacy for the miners. I don't know if this is appropriate for the main page.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sago_outrage/
Can we remove the "2006" from the article title? No need to specify the year when there's only one, e.g., Oklahoma City bombing. Coffee 04:55, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
This article is a mess, with redundant statements being made again and again (for example, the conflicting reports on the body count). -- 70.108.56.178 10:16, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
On CO (Carbon Monoxide):"200 parts per million is the maximum considered safe" "the 400 parts per million tolerance of the human body" Which is the right one, 400 or 200 ppm? get the facts constitant or don't use them people. --Firehawk1717 20:29, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
The article now says, "Hatfield said that carbon monoxide levels in the area where the miners were found was in the range of 300-400 ppm when the rescue team arrived. This is near the safe threshold level to support life for 15 minutes." According to Carbon monoxide poisoning, 400 ppm causes "Frontal headache within one to two hours"; 800 ppm causes "Dizziness, nausea, and convulsions within 45 min; insensible within 2 hours"; 1,600 ppm causes "Headache, tachycardia, dizziness, and nausea within 20 min; death in less than 2 hours"; 3,200 ppm causes "Headache, dizziness and nausea in five to ten minutes. Death within 30 minutes." Assuming that Carbon monoxide poisoning is correct, 300-400 ppm is nowhere near the safe threshold level to support life for 15 minutes. Anomalocaris ( talk) 21:45, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
A look at the Dead external links page shows no less than thirteen dead links (Error 404) in this article. Someone familiar with the subject needs to go through with a chainsaw and do some pruning. -- Calton | Talk 00:47, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
I am proposing that we merge the article for Randal McCloy into this article. When the latter article was proposed for deletion over a year and a half ago, a number of the arguments for keeping it were based upon predictions that did not come true, that McCloy would "most likely will create more headline news" and "he could become more important in the near future" and "McCloy's testimony will be singularly important and historians from the far future will fairly need to look up his background more than many other people with accepted biographies in Wikipedia"; many others, meanwhile, already foresaw the article being merged back into the article on the mine disaster.
Well, a year and a half later, McCloy's only claim to encyclopedic notability is still that he survived the mine disaster -- which means that he has no encyclopedic notability apart from the mine disaster. According to Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons#Articles about living people notable only for one event, "If reliable sources only cover the person in the context of a particular event, then a separate biography is unlikely to be warranted. Marginal biographies on people with no independent notability can give undue weight to the events in the context of the individual, create redundancy and additional maintenance overhead, and cause problems for our neutral point of view policy." This pair of articles seems to have proved that point: The article on McCloy is almost wholly about his process of rehabilitation, which despite its significance to the people involved is not encyclopedically notable (do we have articles on the rehabilitation of the victims of non-notable car crashes?) Meanwhile, a fact which was extremely significant to the disaster has yet to find its way into the article on the disaster -- why? Because the fact ("In late April 2006, McCloy revealed that four of the air packs failed in the tragedy.") was added to the article on McCloy, where apparently no one noticed it, or if they did, failed to realize that it had not made its way into the article on the disaster. (It is unsourced in the other article but it should be easy enough to fix that.) A merge is the right thing to do. -- 192.250.34.161 19:48, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
So folks, this event occured roughly a year and a half ago. I opted to comment here due to a comment (at the time of writing) at the article dealing with the hot potato of Old lady farts, driver loose control and crash at Glasgow Airport (OMG OMG!!!) (to be taken lightly). I used to be an active editor, but lost interest, mostly due to the internal politics going on around here and partly due to the skewed imprints "newsworthy" (own emphasis naturally) events in history leave here.
My question is, is there an editor to be found here that would be willing to conclude that yes, this incident was indeed notable as it took place in a time and in a nation that one would expect to have done away with risk factors etc. in order to that such an event should not be able to take place at all; yet be willing to cut/and or slim the text as to not give it undue weight (or perhaps someone with knowledge of such matters could go on about and expand for example Millfield Mine disaster, Almy mine, 1909 Cherry Mine disaster etc.
I doubt there are people to be found that are willing to cut material from such articles, despite that after all such events as this have not left that deep marks in history. As a whole, active editors at wikipedia might benefit from reading essays such as WP:RECENTISM and bit more measure of self-restraint when it comes to covering the world around them. Not meaning to to step on anyone's toes, happy editing folks, 85.131.16.162 21:10, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I was fairly active editing this article at the time of the event. But left due to exactly what you mentioned. I made a note to come back in a few years when people no longer cared and edit the article which I expected would have been left in a bloated, somewhat unreadable mess in the wake of several months of frantic editing after everyone went home. And, that is indeed what happened. And that is what I'm starting to do now. I don't object to people jumping on the recentism bandwagon and going hog wild on the latest event (see Colorado balloon incident for the article du jour in that realm). The bloat and debris is probably both necessary and unavoidable given the size of the Wikipedia editor community. But the almost predictable end result is an article that needs to be revisited and vastly streamlined after the excitement of the party is over. -- Crunch ( talk) 10:58, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
I strongly recommend removing all of the legislative text. It's extensive unnecessary information that should appear as a recommended link. Or at least, let the article simply mention federal legislation was inspired by the event, but don't include that entire text! 66.218.46.140 04:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)ninetigerr
Image:Lynetteroby.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
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BetacommandBot ( talk) 21:51, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Image:Nytimes sago mine2.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 14:08, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
I am removing the claim of divine retribution from the article on the grounds that pretty much anything the Westboro Baptist Church says is automatically WP:FRINGE. Andrew ( talk) 21:17, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 19:32, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 08:07, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:43, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:21, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
IF anyone is actually interested, has anyone thought to add the name of the mine this happened in? It does make a difference. Since the whole world likes to believe we just show up to a hole in the earth and shovel the black rock, you might want to add the actual mine name.....At Sago, at the abandoned site, is the Grand Badger Mine No 1.......by the Badger Coal Company...does anyone here know? Coal town guy ( talk) 00:18, 28 August 2018 (UTC)