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I don't know how you have missed out on this one before: Safetyman should redirect to this article. Also should Safety (defensive back)and Safetyman (defensive back).
What you are all missing is that "Safety" is merely a short form for the real (the genuine original) name of safetyman for this position. "Safetyman" should probably be the actual title for this article. There are safety men in American and Canadian football, and probably in rugby, and in soccer football, the safetyman is called the "goalkeeper" or "goalie".
For those of you who think that this is just a step backwards to the era of "stone knives and bearskins" ( Mr. Spock of Star Trek said this in about 1968), I can just state that you are painfully lacking in historical perspective. 98.67.108.198 ( talk) 15:49, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
Regarding any subject that a person is not trained in, even with such a definition, much can seem mysterious, or silly, or humorous.
Regarding a telephone, a covered receiver might pertain to segmenting two simultaneous conversations.
In all such definitions, clarifying edits might need continual updates.
Thank You,
[[ hopiakuta Please do sign your signature on your message. ~~ Thank You. -]] 15:00, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was:
Safety (American football) → Safety (football position) — I believe the disambiguation (American football) is rather unclear as it could also mean the Safety (football score) and the same position is also in Canadian football. I suggest (football position). Any thoughts? DoubleBlue ( Talk) 22:33, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Closed. Failed to gain consensus. DoubleBlue ( Talk) 00:20, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus. JPG-GR ( talk) 19:20, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
Safety (American football) → Safety (football position) — As last year, I believe the disambiguation (American football) is ambiguous as it could also mean the Safety (football score) and incorrect as it also discusses the position in Canadian football. I think that (football position) is the best choice as clarifies we are speaking of the position and there is no need to specify the code of football as this article covers all football Safety positions. — DoubleBlue ( talk) 18:47, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.Moved from WP:RM 199.125.109.126 ( talk) 23:05, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
I came here in the hope of closing the request at WP:RM. From the above it seems to me that there is agreement that the current title is inappropriate, but there is not yet consensus about what the replacement should be. In the meantime I have deleted all but one version of Safety (football position) so that the move can be made if consensus supports it. Martin msgj 16:57, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
I did not see some of the later comments to the above move request and I'd like to respond. There is a misconception somewhere that there is a convention to disambiguate dabs; this is not so. In fact, the rule is to use the most general descriptive dab that does not conflict with another title and one of the reasons is for cases such as this. DoubleBlue ( talk) 21:01, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
Looking above at the archived move requests, it appears that there is (or was) consensus that the name of this article should be changed to "Safety (XXX football position)"; the debate was whether the title should be Safety (football position), Safety (American football position), or Safety (Gridiron football position). Am I understanding this correctly?
I'm neutral on whether the title should contain "American", "Gridiron", or (blank), but I do think that the current title is confusing. I'd suggest also moving Safety (football score) in accordance with what is decided here, and setting up a new Safety (American football) that's a WP:DAB page between the position and the score. Thoughts? – Grondemar 06:10, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
The article Safety (American football) currently describes the position in American football called "Safety". However, there is another element of American football referred to as "Safety", a scoring play, currently located at Safety (football score). The current name of this article is ambiguous. However, since both the position and scoring play are common between American and Canadian football, and nonexistent in association football and rugby, there has been controversy whether the article names should be modified by:
I would like to reach consensus on the following issues:
Thanks for your attention. – Grondemar 04:07, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
My understanding of the standard is to use a disambiguation page only if there are more than two articles to link to, or if there are two articles, but neither term is more common than the other. Considering that the scoring of a safety is relatively infrequent, whereas every team has numerous safeties on their roster, I think the position is the more common usage. So I think best practice is already in place, with a hatnote used at the position article to disambiguate the term. I have no opinion on renaming the position article to reflect its use in that sense in both American and Canadian codes however. Strikehold ( talk) 21:35, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
From the discussion above, it appears that a consensus has formed to move the article about the position to Safety (American football position) and the article about the scoring play to Safety (American football score), while having Safety (American football) as a disambiguation page. In order to resolve the concerns about American vs Canadian football, I propose having the titles Safety (Canadian football position), Safety (Canadian football score), and Safety (Canadian football) redirect to the American football articles, with all of the main articles clearly indicating "In American and Canadian football..." in their leads. If there is no objection to this plan I'll start making the moves tomorrow. – Grondemar 00:30, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
The title was clearly inaccurate at reflecting the dual American and Canadian nature of the player position. "and Canadian" was added as per WP:AND, since the article is describing both positions simultaneously, yet the material is not similar enough to necessitate separate pages for the content. Unless a reason can be produced why the title should be reverted to only "American football position", I propose it be left as it is now, including its description of being a Canadian position.
The title was left as Safety since it is the common name used by people across both nations ( WP:COMMONNAME). However, the genuine name "safetyman" can be used in reference to other sports, as pointed out previously:
What you are all missing is that "Safety" is merely a short form for the real (the genuine original) name of safetyman for this position....There are safety men in American and Canadian football, and probably in rugby, and in soccer football, the safetyman is called the "goalkeeper" or "goalie". - 98.67.108.198 (talk) 15:49, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
The word "position" was also left in the title to differentiate between the player position of the game and the American football scoring method.
The descriptor was also not replaced with "Defensive back" since that term is of a categorical nature. "American" and "Canadian" are explicit adjectives, they are more suited to add necessary detail to the title, and they also describe the origins of the article's subject.
Sothisislife101 ( talk) 04:01, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I don't know how you have missed out on this one before: Safetyman should redirect to this article. Also should Safety (defensive back)and Safetyman (defensive back).
What you are all missing is that "Safety" is merely a short form for the real (the genuine original) name of safetyman for this position. "Safetyman" should probably be the actual title for this article. There are safety men in American and Canadian football, and probably in rugby, and in soccer football, the safetyman is called the "goalkeeper" or "goalie".
For those of you who think that this is just a step backwards to the era of "stone knives and bearskins" ( Mr. Spock of Star Trek said this in about 1968), I can just state that you are painfully lacking in historical perspective. 98.67.108.198 ( talk) 15:49, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
Regarding any subject that a person is not trained in, even with such a definition, much can seem mysterious, or silly, or humorous.
Regarding a telephone, a covered receiver might pertain to segmenting two simultaneous conversations.
In all such definitions, clarifying edits might need continual updates.
Thank You,
[[ hopiakuta Please do sign your signature on your message. ~~ Thank You. -]] 15:00, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was:
Safety (American football) → Safety (football position) — I believe the disambiguation (American football) is rather unclear as it could also mean the Safety (football score) and the same position is also in Canadian football. I suggest (football position). Any thoughts? DoubleBlue ( Talk) 22:33, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Closed. Failed to gain consensus. DoubleBlue ( Talk) 00:20, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus. JPG-GR ( talk) 19:20, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
Safety (American football) → Safety (football position) — As last year, I believe the disambiguation (American football) is ambiguous as it could also mean the Safety (football score) and incorrect as it also discusses the position in Canadian football. I think that (football position) is the best choice as clarifies we are speaking of the position and there is no need to specify the code of football as this article covers all football Safety positions. — DoubleBlue ( talk) 18:47, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.Moved from WP:RM 199.125.109.126 ( talk) 23:05, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
I came here in the hope of closing the request at WP:RM. From the above it seems to me that there is agreement that the current title is inappropriate, but there is not yet consensus about what the replacement should be. In the meantime I have deleted all but one version of Safety (football position) so that the move can be made if consensus supports it. Martin msgj 16:57, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
I did not see some of the later comments to the above move request and I'd like to respond. There is a misconception somewhere that there is a convention to disambiguate dabs; this is not so. In fact, the rule is to use the most general descriptive dab that does not conflict with another title and one of the reasons is for cases such as this. DoubleBlue ( talk) 21:01, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
Looking above at the archived move requests, it appears that there is (or was) consensus that the name of this article should be changed to "Safety (XXX football position)"; the debate was whether the title should be Safety (football position), Safety (American football position), or Safety (Gridiron football position). Am I understanding this correctly?
I'm neutral on whether the title should contain "American", "Gridiron", or (blank), but I do think that the current title is confusing. I'd suggest also moving Safety (football score) in accordance with what is decided here, and setting up a new Safety (American football) that's a WP:DAB page between the position and the score. Thoughts? – Grondemar 06:10, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
The article Safety (American football) currently describes the position in American football called "Safety". However, there is another element of American football referred to as "Safety", a scoring play, currently located at Safety (football score). The current name of this article is ambiguous. However, since both the position and scoring play are common between American and Canadian football, and nonexistent in association football and rugby, there has been controversy whether the article names should be modified by:
I would like to reach consensus on the following issues:
Thanks for your attention. – Grondemar 04:07, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
My understanding of the standard is to use a disambiguation page only if there are more than two articles to link to, or if there are two articles, but neither term is more common than the other. Considering that the scoring of a safety is relatively infrequent, whereas every team has numerous safeties on their roster, I think the position is the more common usage. So I think best practice is already in place, with a hatnote used at the position article to disambiguate the term. I have no opinion on renaming the position article to reflect its use in that sense in both American and Canadian codes however. Strikehold ( talk) 21:35, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
From the discussion above, it appears that a consensus has formed to move the article about the position to Safety (American football position) and the article about the scoring play to Safety (American football score), while having Safety (American football) as a disambiguation page. In order to resolve the concerns about American vs Canadian football, I propose having the titles Safety (Canadian football position), Safety (Canadian football score), and Safety (Canadian football) redirect to the American football articles, with all of the main articles clearly indicating "In American and Canadian football..." in their leads. If there is no objection to this plan I'll start making the moves tomorrow. – Grondemar 00:30, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
The title was clearly inaccurate at reflecting the dual American and Canadian nature of the player position. "and Canadian" was added as per WP:AND, since the article is describing both positions simultaneously, yet the material is not similar enough to necessitate separate pages for the content. Unless a reason can be produced why the title should be reverted to only "American football position", I propose it be left as it is now, including its description of being a Canadian position.
The title was left as Safety since it is the common name used by people across both nations ( WP:COMMONNAME). However, the genuine name "safetyman" can be used in reference to other sports, as pointed out previously:
What you are all missing is that "Safety" is merely a short form for the real (the genuine original) name of safetyman for this position....There are safety men in American and Canadian football, and probably in rugby, and in soccer football, the safetyman is called the "goalkeeper" or "goalie". - 98.67.108.198 (talk) 15:49, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
The word "position" was also left in the title to differentiate between the player position of the game and the American football scoring method.
The descriptor was also not replaced with "Defensive back" since that term is of a categorical nature. "American" and "Canadian" are explicit adjectives, they are more suited to add necessary detail to the title, and they also describe the origins of the article's subject.
Sothisislife101 ( talk) 04:01, 4 January 2011 (UTC)