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this website sucks so much Wikipedia is boring
After mentioning the recent addition of "Parts of the Saddle" on User talk:Eventer, I've been pondering. Perhaps this page should be moved to Saddle (disambiguation), and a more generic article on saddles can be written here? Perhaps it could discuss things that are common to all saddles, and use one-paragraph summary sections on English saddle and Western saddle (for example) linked with {{ main}}.
A lot of the incoming links are just about "saddles" in general -- when a Simpsons episode talks about a saddle, they don't care whether it's an English or Western one, and someone clicking a link from that article shouldn't be presented with a disambiguation page.
In fact, I think I've just convinced myself that this is necessary. Barring any disagreement here, I'll take care of it in the next day or two. — Catherine\ talk 21:01, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Hey, I'll be happy to help contribute to the saddle article once the moves have been made. I have some resonably good sources which should help. - Eventer
There is content about saddles on both Saddle and Horse tack. I don't think that we can merge these two pages 100% (since there's content on both that doesn't relate to the other subject), but I think we need to at least cross-reference the two and remove unnecessary redundancies. -- 201.50.123.251 18:54, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree that this article should NOT be merged. Like the horse and equestrianism articles, I think the tack article can be an overall summary with main page links to articles like this one. Therefore, am removing merge tag and will put a cleanup tag on tack article if it looks like it needs one. Montanabw 19:19, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
There needs to be rather more than this one sentence. In particular, how we know wbout this saddle, the Connolly reconstruction, and where it came from (Gaul, apparently). I will try to add some of this. -- Nantonos 22:09, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
[ [1]] -- This is an article about the saddles that Native Americans used as described by Lewis and Clark. Interestingly, young men did not use a hard saddle, but rather a leather pillow stuffed with hair.-- Puddytang 17:17, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
I wonder, that there is nothing about saddle fitting like here and the problems with non-fitting saddles. -- Wertzu 08:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
It looks like this article needs some information on saddles for animals other than horses, as mentioned in the first line of the article. I also think that "and be comfortable for both horse and rider", from the treeless saddle controversy section, is biased. The section also cites no references. And perhaps treeless saddles deserve their own article? I am a lemon 06:56, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
all the kanpur fitter is totally waist a time - asad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.94.132.51 ( talk) 05:42, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
I don't think that any police use the military saddles that were used in the wars. I have a photo of one. Comments please. Cgoodwin ( talk) 01:51, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
whats the difference between the english and western besides the obvious. who did they come from--Brent Perry 19:51, 20 August 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brentperry14 ( talk • contribs)
Samuraiantiqueworld, please stop reverting this article and discuss the issue. The problem is that your links to Commons don't work per WP:MOS for two reasons: One, you can't use one wiki as a reference in another wiki. Second, "See also" is for internal wikipedia cross links. You may also want to read WP:UNDUE because while Japanese equipment is relevant to discuss, it's only one piece of the article. This article can benefit from more footnotes, but not improper ones. Third, galleries are discouraged on WP and using a commons link to a category page is poor sourcing, particularly when there is already an image in the article. Better to create a new article on the topic and wikilink to that. Montanabw (talk) 23:04, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
When to link Wikipedia encourages links from Wikipedia articles to pages on sister projects when such links are likely to be useful to our readers, and interlingual crosslinking to articles on foreign-language editions of Wikipedia whenever such links are possible. By far, the most common use of links to the non-Wikipedia sister projects is the use of images that are stored on the Wikimedia Commons site.
How to link
See also: Help:Interlanguage links
Editors link to pages on sister projects (other than the inter-language Wikipedias) in five ways:
Wikisource has original text related to this article:
The Wind in the Willows
by linking images and other files hosted by Wikicommons, such as File:Wind in the willows.jpg,
through inline links such as this link to wikisource:The Wind in the Willows (the pipe trick works:
The Wind in the Willows produces The Wind in the Willows),
through large graphical templates, such as
, as shown at the right,
through standard links directly to the URL, exactly like any other website, such as The Wind in the Willows, and
with templates that produce a formatted line for a bulleted list, such
Works related to
The Wind in the Willows at Wikisource, which produces:
Works related to The Wind in the Willows at Wikisource
As with standard wikilinks to other Wikipedia articles, pages at sister projects are normally linked only once within an article.
Where to place links See also: Wikipedia:Manual of Style (layout)#External links The best place and the best format for a link to a page on a Wikimedia sister project depend on the situation. For example, if a word in the text might be unfamiliar to some readers, then an inline link to Wiktionary directs readers to the definition of the word.
So if a word in the text might be unfamiliar to some readers (such as a Japanese term), an inline link to "Commons" would direct the reader to an image or images of the word. The result is the same, readers can see images of words they are not familiar with, the article is not cluttered with an over abundance of images. Samuraiantiqueworld ( talk) 10:56, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
You are linking not to wiktionary, but to Commons, and specifically to a category page of photos you took of things you are clearly trying to market and sell; your user name says it all and so does your user page at commons. That doesn't help this article, though writing an article on the topics you want to link from commons, andt hen linking to the article you have written would be helpful. The commons links can properly be placed in an "External links" section, not as a "see also." Other than that, you are mostly adding useful information, though you must watch that you don't give it undue weight. It is one thing to take useful photos and use them to illustrate articles; I think that's a good thing. But it's another to be doing what certainly looks like a personal agenda to sell antiques and then viciously attacking anyone who disagrees with you. Montanabw (talk) 16:24, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Lets get this article unblocked and end this so we can get back to business, I suggest that we place the links that you object to in some other section instead of "see also" and that you drop your argument against inline links to Commons images for terms in the "Japanese saddle" section until the time that there are articles on Wikipedia to link directly to.
"It is one thing to take useful photos and use them to illustrate articles;" That is exactly what I am doing here and nothing else, there is no AGENDA here except helping people gain knowledge and understanding and SHARING with people. Samuraiantiqueworld ( talk) 22:19, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Seriously, read WP:UNDUE again, please. And discuss what the Japanese added to saddle use and technology, quit trying to just add links to more pictures. And I think you should write an article on Japanese saddles, just like we have on all the other kinds. The "extra weight" on modern designs reflects the relative use of these saddles worldwide. Millions of people ride these saddles, so OF COURSE they are weighted relatively higher. Now, I am calling it an evening and I am going to strongly suggest that you take all the advice and examples I have provided and think over how you can help the process instead of attacking everyone else for trying to help you out. Montanabw (talk) 05:58, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
Good article on saddles in other parts of the world http://westernhorseman.com/index.php/articles/gear-guide/article/565-saddles-of-the-world.html Montanabw (talk) 23:39, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
I just came over from visiting the PETA site, and was wondering if (almost) all horse saddles are still made of leather. I would guess that there is some pressure to move to using more synthetics, but I didn't see any mention of that here. Mwr0 ( talk) 13:52, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
References MUST pass the validity requirements of Wikipedia, I have asked for an opinion of this type of reference Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 123, it does not matter whether an article is stable or not, they are not valid references and these types of references are not allowed to remain as references on Wikipedia articles as was implied on my talk page ("Please do not remove sources as you did on the article saddle. In a longterm stable article such as this, it is more helpful to tag problematic links and allow them to be fixed. Please respect the process. Montanabw"). This type of reference can be placed in an external links category if they are not commercial links. If there is any doubt as to the validity of any references I have removed take it to Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard as I did, removing invalid references is NOT vandalism. Samuraiantiqueworld ( talk) 23:05, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
Please read this WP:SOURCES and specifically this WP:SPS ("Self-published sources, Anyone can create a personal web page or pay to have a book published, and then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published media, such as books, patents, newsletters, personal websites, open wikis, personal or group blogs, Internet forum postings, and tweets, are largely not acceptable as sources. Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established expert on the topic of the article whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications.[4] Take care when using such sources: if the information in question is really worth reporting, someone else will probably have done so.[6] Never use self-published sources as third-party sources about living people, even if the author is an expert, well-known professional researcher, or writer."). I will continue to remove references that are invalid for use on Wikipedia and attempt to replace these references with valid reference in order to protect the reliability of Wikipedia articles. Readers of these articles are expecting that these articles are based of factual, verifiable information and not personal opinion, original research, etc. Samuraiantiqueworld ( talk) 23:28, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
Check this out from User:Nyttend on my talk page, ("I looked at the two articles Montanabw linked; at one of them I reverted you, and at the other I restored your edits after Montanabw's reversion. I don't see any reason to say that you're in the wrong or that Montanabw is in the wrong, so I'm not going to be getting involved. Nyttend") "I'M NOT GOING TO GET INVOLVED"!! and at the same time reverting YOUR reversion of a clearly indefensible revert by Montanabw and I don't see any reason to say that you're in the wrong or that Montanabw is in the wrong!! Calling someone a "vandal" for making perfectly credible edits and no one is in the wrong? Very strange indeed. Samuraiantiqueworld ( talk) 00:38, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Yes I agree, a misunderstanding but regardless the reverting by an experienced editor of invalid referenced is inexcusable, there are a lot of perfectly usable references online, these resources need to be exploited instead of taking the easy way out and trying to make any old web site work as a reference, the saddle article will benefit from having reliable inline references added and so will any readers of the article. Samuraiantiqueworld ( talk) 01:54, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
In the third paragraph of the History and Development section appears the clause, "reducing the force directed on any one part of the horse's back (lb/sq. in. or kg/sq. cm)": this is a misuse of the term "force". In a casual context such as this it's not really important, but the introduction of units, albeit with no actual quantities, implies that someone was thinking about this and wanted to get it right, but had a bit pf physics trouble. This is a small enough edit that I will go ahead and just make it; I'm sure someone will inform me if I'm wrong. Scutigera ( talk) 14:23, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
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The article uses the word "tree" all over the place, but never defines it. There's even sections on "treeless" saddles, but they never talk about what's missing. A clear definition of "tree", early in the article, would be very helpful. -- Dan Griscom ( talk) 11:25, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
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this website sucks so much Wikipedia is boring
After mentioning the recent addition of "Parts of the Saddle" on User talk:Eventer, I've been pondering. Perhaps this page should be moved to Saddle (disambiguation), and a more generic article on saddles can be written here? Perhaps it could discuss things that are common to all saddles, and use one-paragraph summary sections on English saddle and Western saddle (for example) linked with {{ main}}.
A lot of the incoming links are just about "saddles" in general -- when a Simpsons episode talks about a saddle, they don't care whether it's an English or Western one, and someone clicking a link from that article shouldn't be presented with a disambiguation page.
In fact, I think I've just convinced myself that this is necessary. Barring any disagreement here, I'll take care of it in the next day or two. — Catherine\ talk 21:01, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
Hey, I'll be happy to help contribute to the saddle article once the moves have been made. I have some resonably good sources which should help. - Eventer
There is content about saddles on both Saddle and Horse tack. I don't think that we can merge these two pages 100% (since there's content on both that doesn't relate to the other subject), but I think we need to at least cross-reference the two and remove unnecessary redundancies. -- 201.50.123.251 18:54, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
I agree that this article should NOT be merged. Like the horse and equestrianism articles, I think the tack article can be an overall summary with main page links to articles like this one. Therefore, am removing merge tag and will put a cleanup tag on tack article if it looks like it needs one. Montanabw 19:19, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
There needs to be rather more than this one sentence. In particular, how we know wbout this saddle, the Connolly reconstruction, and where it came from (Gaul, apparently). I will try to add some of this. -- Nantonos 22:09, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
[ [1]] -- This is an article about the saddles that Native Americans used as described by Lewis and Clark. Interestingly, young men did not use a hard saddle, but rather a leather pillow stuffed with hair.-- Puddytang 17:17, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
I wonder, that there is nothing about saddle fitting like here and the problems with non-fitting saddles. -- Wertzu 08:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
It looks like this article needs some information on saddles for animals other than horses, as mentioned in the first line of the article. I also think that "and be comfortable for both horse and rider", from the treeless saddle controversy section, is biased. The section also cites no references. And perhaps treeless saddles deserve their own article? I am a lemon 06:56, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
all the kanpur fitter is totally waist a time - asad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.94.132.51 ( talk) 05:42, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
I don't think that any police use the military saddles that were used in the wars. I have a photo of one. Comments please. Cgoodwin ( talk) 01:51, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
whats the difference between the english and western besides the obvious. who did they come from--Brent Perry 19:51, 20 August 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brentperry14 ( talk • contribs)
Samuraiantiqueworld, please stop reverting this article and discuss the issue. The problem is that your links to Commons don't work per WP:MOS for two reasons: One, you can't use one wiki as a reference in another wiki. Second, "See also" is for internal wikipedia cross links. You may also want to read WP:UNDUE because while Japanese equipment is relevant to discuss, it's only one piece of the article. This article can benefit from more footnotes, but not improper ones. Third, galleries are discouraged on WP and using a commons link to a category page is poor sourcing, particularly when there is already an image in the article. Better to create a new article on the topic and wikilink to that. Montanabw (talk) 23:04, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
When to link Wikipedia encourages links from Wikipedia articles to pages on sister projects when such links are likely to be useful to our readers, and interlingual crosslinking to articles on foreign-language editions of Wikipedia whenever such links are possible. By far, the most common use of links to the non-Wikipedia sister projects is the use of images that are stored on the Wikimedia Commons site.
How to link
See also: Help:Interlanguage links
Editors link to pages on sister projects (other than the inter-language Wikipedias) in five ways:
Wikisource has original text related to this article:
The Wind in the Willows
by linking images and other files hosted by Wikicommons, such as File:Wind in the willows.jpg,
through inline links such as this link to wikisource:The Wind in the Willows (the pipe trick works:
The Wind in the Willows produces The Wind in the Willows),
through large graphical templates, such as
, as shown at the right,
through standard links directly to the URL, exactly like any other website, such as The Wind in the Willows, and
with templates that produce a formatted line for a bulleted list, such
Works related to
The Wind in the Willows at Wikisource, which produces:
Works related to The Wind in the Willows at Wikisource
As with standard wikilinks to other Wikipedia articles, pages at sister projects are normally linked only once within an article.
Where to place links See also: Wikipedia:Manual of Style (layout)#External links The best place and the best format for a link to a page on a Wikimedia sister project depend on the situation. For example, if a word in the text might be unfamiliar to some readers, then an inline link to Wiktionary directs readers to the definition of the word.
So if a word in the text might be unfamiliar to some readers (such as a Japanese term), an inline link to "Commons" would direct the reader to an image or images of the word. The result is the same, readers can see images of words they are not familiar with, the article is not cluttered with an over abundance of images. Samuraiantiqueworld ( talk) 10:56, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
You are linking not to wiktionary, but to Commons, and specifically to a category page of photos you took of things you are clearly trying to market and sell; your user name says it all and so does your user page at commons. That doesn't help this article, though writing an article on the topics you want to link from commons, andt hen linking to the article you have written would be helpful. The commons links can properly be placed in an "External links" section, not as a "see also." Other than that, you are mostly adding useful information, though you must watch that you don't give it undue weight. It is one thing to take useful photos and use them to illustrate articles; I think that's a good thing. But it's another to be doing what certainly looks like a personal agenda to sell antiques and then viciously attacking anyone who disagrees with you. Montanabw (talk) 16:24, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Lets get this article unblocked and end this so we can get back to business, I suggest that we place the links that you object to in some other section instead of "see also" and that you drop your argument against inline links to Commons images for terms in the "Japanese saddle" section until the time that there are articles on Wikipedia to link directly to.
"It is one thing to take useful photos and use them to illustrate articles;" That is exactly what I am doing here and nothing else, there is no AGENDA here except helping people gain knowledge and understanding and SHARING with people. Samuraiantiqueworld ( talk) 22:19, 29 July 2011 (UTC)
Seriously, read WP:UNDUE again, please. And discuss what the Japanese added to saddle use and technology, quit trying to just add links to more pictures. And I think you should write an article on Japanese saddles, just like we have on all the other kinds. The "extra weight" on modern designs reflects the relative use of these saddles worldwide. Millions of people ride these saddles, so OF COURSE they are weighted relatively higher. Now, I am calling it an evening and I am going to strongly suggest that you take all the advice and examples I have provided and think over how you can help the process instead of attacking everyone else for trying to help you out. Montanabw (talk) 05:58, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
Good article on saddles in other parts of the world http://westernhorseman.com/index.php/articles/gear-guide/article/565-saddles-of-the-world.html Montanabw (talk) 23:39, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
I just came over from visiting the PETA site, and was wondering if (almost) all horse saddles are still made of leather. I would guess that there is some pressure to move to using more synthetics, but I didn't see any mention of that here. Mwr0 ( talk) 13:52, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
References MUST pass the validity requirements of Wikipedia, I have asked for an opinion of this type of reference Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 123, it does not matter whether an article is stable or not, they are not valid references and these types of references are not allowed to remain as references on Wikipedia articles as was implied on my talk page ("Please do not remove sources as you did on the article saddle. In a longterm stable article such as this, it is more helpful to tag problematic links and allow them to be fixed. Please respect the process. Montanabw"). This type of reference can be placed in an external links category if they are not commercial links. If there is any doubt as to the validity of any references I have removed take it to Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard as I did, removing invalid references is NOT vandalism. Samuraiantiqueworld ( talk) 23:05, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
Please read this WP:SOURCES and specifically this WP:SPS ("Self-published sources, Anyone can create a personal web page or pay to have a book published, and then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published media, such as books, patents, newsletters, personal websites, open wikis, personal or group blogs, Internet forum postings, and tweets, are largely not acceptable as sources. Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established expert on the topic of the article whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications.[4] Take care when using such sources: if the information in question is really worth reporting, someone else will probably have done so.[6] Never use self-published sources as third-party sources about living people, even if the author is an expert, well-known professional researcher, or writer."). I will continue to remove references that are invalid for use on Wikipedia and attempt to replace these references with valid reference in order to protect the reliability of Wikipedia articles. Readers of these articles are expecting that these articles are based of factual, verifiable information and not personal opinion, original research, etc. Samuraiantiqueworld ( talk) 23:28, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
Check this out from User:Nyttend on my talk page, ("I looked at the two articles Montanabw linked; at one of them I reverted you, and at the other I restored your edits after Montanabw's reversion. I don't see any reason to say that you're in the wrong or that Montanabw is in the wrong, so I'm not going to be getting involved. Nyttend") "I'M NOT GOING TO GET INVOLVED"!! and at the same time reverting YOUR reversion of a clearly indefensible revert by Montanabw and I don't see any reason to say that you're in the wrong or that Montanabw is in the wrong!! Calling someone a "vandal" for making perfectly credible edits and no one is in the wrong? Very strange indeed. Samuraiantiqueworld ( talk) 00:38, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Yes I agree, a misunderstanding but regardless the reverting by an experienced editor of invalid referenced is inexcusable, there are a lot of perfectly usable references online, these resources need to be exploited instead of taking the easy way out and trying to make any old web site work as a reference, the saddle article will benefit from having reliable inline references added and so will any readers of the article. Samuraiantiqueworld ( talk) 01:54, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
In the third paragraph of the History and Development section appears the clause, "reducing the force directed on any one part of the horse's back (lb/sq. in. or kg/sq. cm)": this is a misuse of the term "force". In a casual context such as this it's not really important, but the introduction of units, albeit with no actual quantities, implies that someone was thinking about this and wanted to get it right, but had a bit pf physics trouble. This is a small enough edit that I will go ahead and just make it; I'm sure someone will inform me if I'm wrong. Scutigera ( talk) 14:23, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Saddle. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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The article uses the word "tree" all over the place, but never defines it. There's even sections on "treeless" saddles, but they never talk about what's missing. A clear definition of "tree", early in the article, would be very helpful. -- Dan Griscom ( talk) 11:25, 26 September 2017 (UTC)