This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Sacred language article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Arabic is the sacred language of the Muslim world as it the language which every Momin will speak in the Hereafter thats Jannat. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.198.227.1 ( talk) 12:20, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Is Hebrew a sacred language? I believe most Jews (in the US at least) speak Yiddish (or English) rather than Hebrew, and it is used for the ceremonies. -- zandperl 03:57, 28 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Hebrew is an ancient language, with sacred words .Some of those words are common, some are not. YHVH is replaced with Adonai, as an example.
In interest of NPOV. I think we should allow all beliefs their sounds, and words.
I mistyped, I meant to say that I believe Hebrew is used for the ceremonies, rather than Yiddish. But I'm sure Smerdis is right, that it varies. -- zandperl 13:16, 28 Oct 2003 (UTC)
The references to Reform and Conservative Judaism use the American definitions of these terms - Reform Judaism in Europe is different and I think the article should reflect this.-- Allanlewis ( talk) 22:50, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Allanlewis. I believe American "Reform" equates to British (European?) "Liberal" and "Conservative" to "Reform". Just to confuse things! Herbgold ( talk) 12:06, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
The article says that Sanskrit is still a living language. Is that correct? In what sense? (Many years ago I read rumors of a village in India where Sanskrit was still spoken, but others wrote that it was a hoax.)
Jorge Stolfi 19:13, 18 May 2004 (UTC)
That could be one sense of "living" indeed. However by that standard Latin is living, too; and possibly so Aramaic, Geez, and Coptic. The other sense of "living" is that the language is used for everyday communication without being tied to a particular historial canon, and thus capable of evolving (at least in principle). In this sense Latin is not "living", because "good Latin" is defined by the classical texts and not by current usage. I wonder which sense the linguists would use?
All the best,
Jorge Stolfi 23:01, 18 May 2004 (UTC)
Sanskrit is not a dead language. There are millions of people who speak Sanskrit and there are a numerous organization working on Sasnskrit and there are many people who produce literary works on Sanskrit. A village near Shimogga in Karnataka state of India called "Maththu" which speaks only sasnkrit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abnaren ( talk • contribs) 14:27, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
According to the Indian census there are native Sanskrit speakers. My guess is that this results from its being the parents' only common language. This certainly happens with Esperanto. Peter jackson ( talk) 12:02, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
This article says that Telugu is the language of compositions in Carnatic music. While this is true, I should like to point out that Carnatic music is not a religion! It is a musical tradition, all right? If no one objects, I'm deleting the stuff about Telugu.-- Siva 01:55, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
You are right Carnatic is a music tradition. Compositions are in all the the south Indian langauges (Kannada, Telugu, Tamil, Malayalam) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abnaren ( talk • contribs) 14:25, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
The article now mentions that Hindu temples in South India are chanting in Tamil as well as, or instead of, Sanskrit. Is this an archaic form of Tamil that is difficult for modern speakers to understand? The article is unclear about this, and makes it sound like these Tamil prayers are recent innovations. If the Tamil used for prayer is not markedly different from cultivated literary Tamil, I would question whether it constitutes a separate language cultivated for religious ritual, and would therefore fall outside the scope of the article. Smerdis of Tlön 22:43, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
FWIW, the text about Tamil read:
Since no one has stepped forward to argue that this means that a distinct form of Tamil is cultivated as a sacred or liturgical language, or that the Tamil used in these ceremonies requires special instruction in order to be understood by the speakers of current Tamil, I don't believe this falls within the scope of the article. Smerdis of Tlön 14:02, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
Ihcoyc,
Yes, Tamil is a sacred language used by the people following Kaumaram, Vainavam, Shaivam. Infact, the main gods of these religious traditions (Murugan, Thirumaal, Perumaal, Sivan, Natarajar, Dakshina moorthi) are created (!) by tamils. Hope you know that, Hinduism is the umbrella term given for all the religious traditions followed in India.
And the tamil used for liturgy is the Sangam Tamil or Middle Tamil. But, the spoken language is called koṭuntamiḻ.( a modern colloquial form ). Though the grammar remains same, it needs some scholars help to explain the meaning of the words used.
Tamils consider their language itself as a goddess TamilThaai. She is worshiped by tamils all over the world. In Madurai, there is a temple for Goddess Tamil Thaai!.
Sathish ! Ramadurai ( talk) 21:37, 5 October 2009 (UTC) —Preceding undated comment added 20:43, 5 October 2009 (UTC).
Just cool.... Tamil is another liturical language just like sanskrit existed from ancient ages. It is mother of
Dravidian languages and Sanskrit is mother of
Indo Aryan languages.
But the fact is Old tamil is mother of all modern dravidian languages including modern tamil.
It varies considreably. An scholar is needed to translate. Although any bachelor degree in Tamil will suffice to read and understand
Old Tamil.
Indianculture2 ( talk) 11:08, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
EL LADINO: Lengua litúrgica de los judíos españoles, Haim Vidal Sephiha, Sorbona (París), Historia 16 - AÑO 1978 [my bolding]:
I'm not sure whether/where this belongs in the article, but pagan reconstructionists (those who emphasize historical accuracy) often use the language of the relevant culture in ritual contexts. For instance, a strict Hellenist pagan may learn and use Ancient Greek for religious reasons; a strict Norse pagan may do the same with Old Norse. Because that general attitude exists in many similar religions, however, I have trouble wording the new information consistently with the rest of the page. -- Ingeborg S. Nordén 23:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Please add Punjabi for Sikhism — Stevey7788 ( talk) 08:14, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
There is a tendency within the German-speaking neo-pagan community (i.e. Druidic and Wiccan but apparently not Norse) to use English terms in rituals and for "name dropping". An English term like "Mother Earth" seems to carry more weight than the corresponding German term "Mutter Erde". 93.133.6.243 ( talk) 07:54, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
How is that photo at the top related to (or necessary for) this article? -- J A Latimer 08:12, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
this article is a bloody mess. someone please do something about it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.175.82.49 ( talk) 05:21, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
This page is ridiculous. Sacred is an Adjective. Not a real classification. Liturgical Language are languages only the priests knew, such a Ge'ez and pre-Masoretic Hebrew. Languages or Writing systems only the priests could read. People would memorize the words, then be told that is what the text says. Please — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.196.192.38 ( talk) 22:18, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Sacred language. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 13:51, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
Church Slavonic is not incomprehensible to Slavs, as it used every Sunday in church services all around the Slavic world. Why does this Wikipedia article say that it is? KeymasterOne ( talk) 20:55, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Sacred language article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Arabic is the sacred language of the Muslim world as it the language which every Momin will speak in the Hereafter thats Jannat. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.198.227.1 ( talk) 12:20, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Is Hebrew a sacred language? I believe most Jews (in the US at least) speak Yiddish (or English) rather than Hebrew, and it is used for the ceremonies. -- zandperl 03:57, 28 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Hebrew is an ancient language, with sacred words .Some of those words are common, some are not. YHVH is replaced with Adonai, as an example.
In interest of NPOV. I think we should allow all beliefs their sounds, and words.
I mistyped, I meant to say that I believe Hebrew is used for the ceremonies, rather than Yiddish. But I'm sure Smerdis is right, that it varies. -- zandperl 13:16, 28 Oct 2003 (UTC)
The references to Reform and Conservative Judaism use the American definitions of these terms - Reform Judaism in Europe is different and I think the article should reflect this.-- Allanlewis ( talk) 22:50, 7 June 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Allanlewis. I believe American "Reform" equates to British (European?) "Liberal" and "Conservative" to "Reform". Just to confuse things! Herbgold ( talk) 12:06, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
The article says that Sanskrit is still a living language. Is that correct? In what sense? (Many years ago I read rumors of a village in India where Sanskrit was still spoken, but others wrote that it was a hoax.)
Jorge Stolfi 19:13, 18 May 2004 (UTC)
That could be one sense of "living" indeed. However by that standard Latin is living, too; and possibly so Aramaic, Geez, and Coptic. The other sense of "living" is that the language is used for everyday communication without being tied to a particular historial canon, and thus capable of evolving (at least in principle). In this sense Latin is not "living", because "good Latin" is defined by the classical texts and not by current usage. I wonder which sense the linguists would use?
All the best,
Jorge Stolfi 23:01, 18 May 2004 (UTC)
Sanskrit is not a dead language. There are millions of people who speak Sanskrit and there are a numerous organization working on Sasnskrit and there are many people who produce literary works on Sanskrit. A village near Shimogga in Karnataka state of India called "Maththu" which speaks only sasnkrit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abnaren ( talk • contribs) 14:27, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
According to the Indian census there are native Sanskrit speakers. My guess is that this results from its being the parents' only common language. This certainly happens with Esperanto. Peter jackson ( talk) 12:02, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
This article says that Telugu is the language of compositions in Carnatic music. While this is true, I should like to point out that Carnatic music is not a religion! It is a musical tradition, all right? If no one objects, I'm deleting the stuff about Telugu.-- Siva 01:55, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
You are right Carnatic is a music tradition. Compositions are in all the the south Indian langauges (Kannada, Telugu, Tamil, Malayalam) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abnaren ( talk • contribs) 14:25, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
The article now mentions that Hindu temples in South India are chanting in Tamil as well as, or instead of, Sanskrit. Is this an archaic form of Tamil that is difficult for modern speakers to understand? The article is unclear about this, and makes it sound like these Tamil prayers are recent innovations. If the Tamil used for prayer is not markedly different from cultivated literary Tamil, I would question whether it constitutes a separate language cultivated for religious ritual, and would therefore fall outside the scope of the article. Smerdis of Tlön 22:43, 29 August 2005 (UTC)
FWIW, the text about Tamil read:
Since no one has stepped forward to argue that this means that a distinct form of Tamil is cultivated as a sacred or liturgical language, or that the Tamil used in these ceremonies requires special instruction in order to be understood by the speakers of current Tamil, I don't believe this falls within the scope of the article. Smerdis of Tlön 14:02, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
Ihcoyc,
Yes, Tamil is a sacred language used by the people following Kaumaram, Vainavam, Shaivam. Infact, the main gods of these religious traditions (Murugan, Thirumaal, Perumaal, Sivan, Natarajar, Dakshina moorthi) are created (!) by tamils. Hope you know that, Hinduism is the umbrella term given for all the religious traditions followed in India.
And the tamil used for liturgy is the Sangam Tamil or Middle Tamil. But, the spoken language is called koṭuntamiḻ.( a modern colloquial form ). Though the grammar remains same, it needs some scholars help to explain the meaning of the words used.
Tamils consider their language itself as a goddess TamilThaai. She is worshiped by tamils all over the world. In Madurai, there is a temple for Goddess Tamil Thaai!.
Sathish ! Ramadurai ( talk) 21:37, 5 October 2009 (UTC) —Preceding undated comment added 20:43, 5 October 2009 (UTC).
Just cool.... Tamil is another liturical language just like sanskrit existed from ancient ages. It is mother of
Dravidian languages and Sanskrit is mother of
Indo Aryan languages.
But the fact is Old tamil is mother of all modern dravidian languages including modern tamil.
It varies considreably. An scholar is needed to translate. Although any bachelor degree in Tamil will suffice to read and understand
Old Tamil.
Indianculture2 ( talk) 11:08, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
EL LADINO: Lengua litúrgica de los judíos españoles, Haim Vidal Sephiha, Sorbona (París), Historia 16 - AÑO 1978 [my bolding]:
I'm not sure whether/where this belongs in the article, but pagan reconstructionists (those who emphasize historical accuracy) often use the language of the relevant culture in ritual contexts. For instance, a strict Hellenist pagan may learn and use Ancient Greek for religious reasons; a strict Norse pagan may do the same with Old Norse. Because that general attitude exists in many similar religions, however, I have trouble wording the new information consistently with the rest of the page. -- Ingeborg S. Nordén 23:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Please add Punjabi for Sikhism — Stevey7788 ( talk) 08:14, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
There is a tendency within the German-speaking neo-pagan community (i.e. Druidic and Wiccan but apparently not Norse) to use English terms in rituals and for "name dropping". An English term like "Mother Earth" seems to carry more weight than the corresponding German term "Mutter Erde". 93.133.6.243 ( talk) 07:54, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
How is that photo at the top related to (or necessary for) this article? -- J A Latimer 08:12, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
this article is a bloody mess. someone please do something about it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.175.82.49 ( talk) 05:21, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
This page is ridiculous. Sacred is an Adjective. Not a real classification. Liturgical Language are languages only the priests knew, such a Ge'ez and pre-Masoretic Hebrew. Languages or Writing systems only the priests could read. People would memorize the words, then be told that is what the text says. Please — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.196.192.38 ( talk) 22:18, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Sacred language. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 13:51, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
Church Slavonic is not incomprehensible to Slavs, as it used every Sunday in church services all around the Slavic world. Why does this Wikipedia article say that it is? KeymasterOne ( talk) 20:55, 1 March 2024 (UTC)