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Is there any consensus for the recent changes to the reference format? I have tried to repair some of the damage done by the change, but I am unsure whether the changes really improve the article. Nigel Ish ( talk) 11:17, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Lgfcd and two IP socks were blocked this week for block evasion (see User talk:Lgfcd). The IPer were doing similar edits to the above. - Fnlayson ( talk) 23:17, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
Does anyone know more about this article, stating "Boeing and Saab will announce ... that they will team up to offer the JAS 39 Gripen for the U.S. Air Force’s T-X future trainer requirement"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.7.140.177 ( talk) 10:54, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
Failed bids are not really notable, aircraft will enter evaluation competitions and bids and proposals in as many places as the manufacturer thinks it is in with a chance but if nothing comes of it nearly all of them are non-notable and part of the background marketing done with every type. Suggest the section is deleted. MilborneOne ( talk) 16:00, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
If an editor makes substantial contributions and specifically express that citations might been forgotten when writing said contribution but will be supplied if pointed out, it's quite disruptive to simply revert the lot. If the request for a PM can't be obliged, there's the excellent tag {{Citation needed}} that can be used. BP OMowe ( talk) 20:40, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
Should we have a section that details the differences of the E model, now that it shall be built?
For example: Two fuselage hardpoints to be added that will usually block the centerline hardpoint. Hcobb ( talk) 00:10, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
So we're already mentioning some of the same information twice, because we don't have a dedicated Super Gripen section? Hcobb ( talk) 19:23, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
http://i.imgur.com/QAbfbWV.jpg
"The SwAF has 134 JAS 39s, including 50 JAS 39As, 13 JAS 39Bs, 60 JAS 39Cs and 11 JAS 39D Gripens in inventory in January 2013,[119] with approximately 100 JAS 39C/D Gripens in operational use."
Are we sure about these numbers? Hcobb ( talk) 01:04, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
What part of "100 JAS 39C/D Gripens in operational use" did I get wrong? Hcobb ( talk) 02:56, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
Apparently 31 A's were bumped up to the C level and the 60 original C's will be padded up to E's, correct? Hcobb ( talk) 17:21, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
Looking at individual aircraft:
So that is 75 active Swedish Cs and 17 active Ds - all original research and just for info. MilborneOne ( talk) 18:39, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
Edit was reverted stating it's reserved for single designer. That does not seem to be the consensus of the talkpage, and to exclude FMV would be misleading as FMV has been working in close integration with every major development project for the Swedish military. BP OMowe ( talk) 02:04, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
Is the article good enough for nomination already?
Its one thing to adhere to English grammar in the text, but deliberately disregard proper translations in the descriptive text is simply not OK by any encyclopaedic standards. Hence the lead should read "The Saab JAS 39 Gripen (The griffin) is a lightweight single-engine" since the singular definite is a well established practice in the Swedish airforce since 1950 with Flygande Tunnan. BP OMowe ( talk) 23:29, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
But this is the English language Wikipedia and so what becomes important is not the grammatical intent of the Swedish language but how the name is translated and used (by reliable sources) writing in English. Even if the "mis-translation" might be notable, it needs to be covered in a reliable source that has commentated on it. GraemeLeggett ( talk) 18:50, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
Roger (Dodger67), don't be a dick. BP OMowe ( talk) 19:30, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
When it comes to the ambiguous names, it should be noted that "gripen" could be translated into "apprehended", but since that wasn't intentional I didn't include that. The J35 actually got its name due to the double-delta wing giving it the reversed kite-like shape. That it happened to also mean "dragon" meant the name was kept. The J37 started out as an attack aircraft, with the main mission -- in case of an invasion -- to sink the attacking transport ships. During this time, the SwAF were still doing extreme low-level flying, and the tufted duck (known as "vigg" in Swedish) had a peak population in the 1960s-70s. Again, the ambiguity of the word meant the name was found suitable. Note that the Swedish word for "thunderbolt" is "åskvigg" and not just "vigg". These things are rather obvious for a native Swede, but since they are not so for those limited to English I included them. BP OMowe ( talk) 00:25, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
FT.com claims that 279 Gripens have been built. Can anybody break this down? -- Sp33dyphil © hat ontributions 11:40, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
The first reference under Saab JAS 39 Gripen#South Africa does not support the text it is attached to. I guess it would be better to move it under the 39C variant, where it is actually relevant.
http://www.defensenews.com/article/20140330/DEFREG01/303300010 Solid enough to add in? Hcobb ( talk) 17:39, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
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Gripen was designed under the premise to be lighter - and thus cheaper to purchase and operate - than the previous Viggen-system while maintaining least the same performance. As it managed to break the trend of constantly heavier and more expensive aircraft I see no problem having a weight reference in the summary. BP OMowe ( talk) 11:01, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
Australia could probably be listed here. SAAB were definitely going to bid for the AIR6000 contract but it was actually cancelled the day it was due to start. Then-Prime Minister John Howard signed Australia up for the JSF/F-35 project. Trying to find some credible references. Flanker235 ( talk) 12:53, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08STOCKHOLM494_a.html The Gripen contains 50 percent U.S. content, including engines, avionics and weapon systems; sales of the Gripen are good for U.S. industry.
RS enough to include? Hcobb ( talk) 00:51, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
Also is the UK veto on sales to Argentina notable?
http://www.c4isrnet.com/article/M5/20141108/DEFREG05/311080014
Hcobb ( talk) 17:52, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
This picture shows a Czech L-159 and not a Gripen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.248.156.205 ( talk) 15:58, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
I reccomend to add information about czech deployment to Iceland in 2014. I hope somebody experienced cad do it. There are some sources in the article about Icelandic air policing - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Air_Policing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.68.216.5 ( talk) 19:26, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks everyone for making huge improvements to the article during the last two weeks. There are several outstanding items that would need to be addressed.
I have changed the main image from a low quality photo that is fuzzy to a high quality image. Changes do not have to be discussed and BilCat you must specify a grounds for reverting–lack of discussion is not one. So far you have presented no argument why the the low quality image is better–see policy, among others WP:BRD, WP:Preserve. CFCF 💌 📧 10:17, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
Does that go here or under the SAAB page as the Gripen is only part of the package? Hcobb ( talk) 20:29, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2016-02-22/bullish-saab-sets-rollout-date-gripen-e
Or do we wait for first flight? Hcobb ( talk) 14:56, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
A new JAS39D has arrived to Hungary with the number 44 in July. http://www.honvedelem.hu/cikk/58043_megerkezett_a_44es_oldalszamu_gripen — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.92.81.111 ( talk) 19:35, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
I read the section 'Testing, production and improvements' where it said that the new refuelling probe was on the Starboard side. I remembered the Gripen I saw at RIAT 2016 had it on the port side (see also YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXM33HEWc5Y&feature=youtu.be). Maybe different versions have it on different sides? Someone more knowledgeable than me may want to correct the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.42.167.170 ( talk) 11:32, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
No its written:"the Gripen is again considered the favourite.". This is not right, The process of evaluation stards again , ther is not yet an offical list of the candidats, so the JAS39. Also the siuation is now differend because the new aircraft will be a replacement of the F-5 AND F/A-18 and not only the F-5. FFA P-16 ( talk) 17:21, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
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I saw the "Introduction 1 November 1997" and i wonder what that date is supposed be? There's no source or anything else, the link i posted was originally from FMV "Försvarets MaterielVerk" in english it's "The Swedish Defence Materiel Administration". The first serial production plane was delivered 8 June 1993 (39.102 which is the same plane that crashed at Långholmen 8 August 1993 only 2 months after delivery) and JAS-39 Gripen was taken into service 9 june 1996 by Skaraborgs flygflottilj F7. Mars 1995 FMV commences airplane operations with a serial plane on the Malmen Base outside Linköping. https://web.archive.org/web/20100821122933/https://www.fmv.se/WmTemplates/Page.aspx?id=802 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.225.136.145 ( talk) 20:53, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
Would it be better to display the specifications for the 39C/D instead of the 39E/F since most of the article is discussing the current generation of Gripens? We can place the specs (in paragraph form) for the Gripen NG under its respective sub-section. Right now it seems a bit like putting the specs for the Super Hornet on the page for the older F/A-18A/B/C/D Hornet. Is it too early to split off Gripen NG to its own page like on the Swedish Wikipedia? Any thoughts? -- Edward Sandstig ( talk) 18:43, 27 August 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
Is there any consensus for the recent changes to the reference format? I have tried to repair some of the damage done by the change, but I am unsure whether the changes really improve the article. Nigel Ish ( talk) 11:17, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Lgfcd and two IP socks were blocked this week for block evasion (see User talk:Lgfcd). The IPer were doing similar edits to the above. - Fnlayson ( talk) 23:17, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
Does anyone know more about this article, stating "Boeing and Saab will announce ... that they will team up to offer the JAS 39 Gripen for the U.S. Air Force’s T-X future trainer requirement"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.7.140.177 ( talk) 10:54, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
Failed bids are not really notable, aircraft will enter evaluation competitions and bids and proposals in as many places as the manufacturer thinks it is in with a chance but if nothing comes of it nearly all of them are non-notable and part of the background marketing done with every type. Suggest the section is deleted. MilborneOne ( talk) 16:00, 1 December 2013 (UTC)
If an editor makes substantial contributions and specifically express that citations might been forgotten when writing said contribution but will be supplied if pointed out, it's quite disruptive to simply revert the lot. If the request for a PM can't be obliged, there's the excellent tag {{Citation needed}} that can be used. BP OMowe ( talk) 20:40, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
Should we have a section that details the differences of the E model, now that it shall be built?
For example: Two fuselage hardpoints to be added that will usually block the centerline hardpoint. Hcobb ( talk) 00:10, 15 January 2014 (UTC)
So we're already mentioning some of the same information twice, because we don't have a dedicated Super Gripen section? Hcobb ( talk) 19:23, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
http://i.imgur.com/QAbfbWV.jpg
"The SwAF has 134 JAS 39s, including 50 JAS 39As, 13 JAS 39Bs, 60 JAS 39Cs and 11 JAS 39D Gripens in inventory in January 2013,[119] with approximately 100 JAS 39C/D Gripens in operational use."
Are we sure about these numbers? Hcobb ( talk) 01:04, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
What part of "100 JAS 39C/D Gripens in operational use" did I get wrong? Hcobb ( talk) 02:56, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
Apparently 31 A's were bumped up to the C level and the 60 original C's will be padded up to E's, correct? Hcobb ( talk) 17:21, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
Looking at individual aircraft:
So that is 75 active Swedish Cs and 17 active Ds - all original research and just for info. MilborneOne ( talk) 18:39, 16 January 2014 (UTC)
Edit was reverted stating it's reserved for single designer. That does not seem to be the consensus of the talkpage, and to exclude FMV would be misleading as FMV has been working in close integration with every major development project for the Swedish military. BP OMowe ( talk) 02:04, 17 January 2014 (UTC)
Is the article good enough for nomination already?
Its one thing to adhere to English grammar in the text, but deliberately disregard proper translations in the descriptive text is simply not OK by any encyclopaedic standards. Hence the lead should read "The Saab JAS 39 Gripen (The griffin) is a lightweight single-engine" since the singular definite is a well established practice in the Swedish airforce since 1950 with Flygande Tunnan. BP OMowe ( talk) 23:29, 18 January 2014 (UTC)
But this is the English language Wikipedia and so what becomes important is not the grammatical intent of the Swedish language but how the name is translated and used (by reliable sources) writing in English. Even if the "mis-translation" might be notable, it needs to be covered in a reliable source that has commentated on it. GraemeLeggett ( talk) 18:50, 4 February 2014 (UTC)
Roger (Dodger67), don't be a dick. BP OMowe ( talk) 19:30, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
When it comes to the ambiguous names, it should be noted that "gripen" could be translated into "apprehended", but since that wasn't intentional I didn't include that. The J35 actually got its name due to the double-delta wing giving it the reversed kite-like shape. That it happened to also mean "dragon" meant the name was kept. The J37 started out as an attack aircraft, with the main mission -- in case of an invasion -- to sink the attacking transport ships. During this time, the SwAF were still doing extreme low-level flying, and the tufted duck (known as "vigg" in Swedish) had a peak population in the 1960s-70s. Again, the ambiguity of the word meant the name was found suitable. Note that the Swedish word for "thunderbolt" is "åskvigg" and not just "vigg". These things are rather obvious for a native Swede, but since they are not so for those limited to English I included them. BP OMowe ( talk) 00:25, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
FT.com claims that 279 Gripens have been built. Can anybody break this down? -- Sp33dyphil © hat ontributions 11:40, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
The first reference under Saab JAS 39 Gripen#South Africa does not support the text it is attached to. I guess it would be better to move it under the 39C variant, where it is actually relevant.
http://www.defensenews.com/article/20140330/DEFREG01/303300010 Solid enough to add in? Hcobb ( talk) 17:39, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
Cyberbot II has detected that page contains external links that have either been globally or locally blacklisted. Links tend to be blacklisted because they have a history of being spammed, or are highly innappropriate for Wikipedia. This, however, doesn't necessarily mean it's spam, or not a good link. If the link is a good link, you may wish to request whitelisting by going to the request page for whitelisting. If you feel the link being caught by the blacklist is a false positive, or no longer needed on the blacklist, you may request the regex be removed or altered at the blacklist request page. If the link is blacklisted globally and you feel the above applies you may request to whitelist it using the before mentioned request page, or request its removal, or alteration, at the request page on meta. When requesting whitelisting, be sure to supply the link to be whitelisted and wrap the link in nowiki tags. The whitelisting process can take its time so once a request has been filled out, you may set the invisible parameter on the tag to true. Please be aware that the bot will replace removed tags, and will remove misplaced tags regularly.
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Gripen was designed under the premise to be lighter - and thus cheaper to purchase and operate - than the previous Viggen-system while maintaining least the same performance. As it managed to break the trend of constantly heavier and more expensive aircraft I see no problem having a weight reference in the summary. BP OMowe ( talk) 11:01, 25 April 2014 (UTC)
Australia could probably be listed here. SAAB were definitely going to bid for the AIR6000 contract but it was actually cancelled the day it was due to start. Then-Prime Minister John Howard signed Australia up for the JSF/F-35 project. Trying to find some credible references. Flanker235 ( talk) 12:53, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08STOCKHOLM494_a.html The Gripen contains 50 percent U.S. content, including engines, avionics and weapon systems; sales of the Gripen are good for U.S. industry.
RS enough to include? Hcobb ( talk) 00:51, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
Also is the UK veto on sales to Argentina notable?
http://www.c4isrnet.com/article/M5/20141108/DEFREG05/311080014
Hcobb ( talk) 17:52, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
This picture shows a Czech L-159 and not a Gripen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.248.156.205 ( talk) 15:58, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
I reccomend to add information about czech deployment to Iceland in 2014. I hope somebody experienced cad do it. There are some sources in the article about Icelandic air policing - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Air_Policing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.68.216.5 ( talk) 19:26, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
Thanks everyone for making huge improvements to the article during the last two weeks. There are several outstanding items that would need to be addressed.
I have changed the main image from a low quality photo that is fuzzy to a high quality image. Changes do not have to be discussed and BilCat you must specify a grounds for reverting–lack of discussion is not one. So far you have presented no argument why the the low quality image is better–see policy, among others WP:BRD, WP:Preserve. CFCF 💌 📧 10:17, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
Does that go here or under the SAAB page as the Gripen is only part of the package? Hcobb ( talk) 20:29, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2016-02-22/bullish-saab-sets-rollout-date-gripen-e
Or do we wait for first flight? Hcobb ( talk) 14:56, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
A new JAS39D has arrived to Hungary with the number 44 in July. http://www.honvedelem.hu/cikk/58043_megerkezett_a_44es_oldalszamu_gripen — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.92.81.111 ( talk) 19:35, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
I read the section 'Testing, production and improvements' where it said that the new refuelling probe was on the Starboard side. I remembered the Gripen I saw at RIAT 2016 had it on the port side (see also YouTube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXM33HEWc5Y&feature=youtu.be). Maybe different versions have it on different sides? Someone more knowledgeable than me may want to correct the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.42.167.170 ( talk) 11:32, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
No its written:"the Gripen is again considered the favourite.". This is not right, The process of evaluation stards again , ther is not yet an offical list of the candidats, so the JAS39. Also the siuation is now differend because the new aircraft will be a replacement of the F-5 AND F/A-18 and not only the F-5. FFA P-16 ( talk) 17:21, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
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I saw the "Introduction 1 November 1997" and i wonder what that date is supposed be? There's no source or anything else, the link i posted was originally from FMV "Försvarets MaterielVerk" in english it's "The Swedish Defence Materiel Administration". The first serial production plane was delivered 8 June 1993 (39.102 which is the same plane that crashed at Långholmen 8 August 1993 only 2 months after delivery) and JAS-39 Gripen was taken into service 9 june 1996 by Skaraborgs flygflottilj F7. Mars 1995 FMV commences airplane operations with a serial plane on the Malmen Base outside Linköping. https://web.archive.org/web/20100821122933/https://www.fmv.se/WmTemplates/Page.aspx?id=802 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.225.136.145 ( talk) 20:53, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
Would it be better to display the specifications for the 39C/D instead of the 39E/F since most of the article is discussing the current generation of Gripens? We can place the specs (in paragraph form) for the Gripen NG under its respective sub-section. Right now it seems a bit like putting the specs for the Super Hornet on the page for the older F/A-18A/B/C/D Hornet. Is it too early to split off Gripen NG to its own page like on the Swedish Wikipedia? Any thoughts? -- Edward Sandstig ( talk) 18:43, 27 August 2018 (UTC)