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See first paragraph of the article. I had a look on this list and it seems a couple of other privately held software companies are bigger now (e.g. SunGard and Infor). Tell me if I'm wrong, otherwise maybe it's better to remove that statement. Mårten Berglund ( talk) 13:35, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
Hi All. I am the original author of a majority of the article's content, which I wrote about three years ago. It needs a lot of work, in particular to reduce its reliance on primary sources and an excessive level of detail. Like I do with most articles where I have a COI, I'd like to correct my prior in-adequacies and prep the article for Good Article status. I find this is a good way to get the article vetted and re-assure the community that I'm doing good work. With that in mind, I've started working on another draft at User:CorporateM/SAS Institute and I welcome input, suggestions, etc..
There is a separate article on the company's software at SAS (software), which was just recently awarded the GA rank. The company itself is primarily notable due to its reputation as a good place to work, showing that greed isn't always the best way to run a business, etc. so I think that will make it especially challenging to remain neutral when there are a lot of fluffy anecdotes. Also for a GA reviewer to assess whether it is representative of the sources or if it is a COI thing will also be challenging. CorporateM ( Talk) 22:35, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
Working on the article from the bottom-up, I'd like to suggest we remove the SAS_Institute#Aircraft section entirely. It is cited to a document from the Federal Aviation Administration and a bizjournals article that briefly mentions SAS has its own hangar at the airport on page 2. As further context, SAS owns a lot of things (their piano is mentioned by USA Today, Inc. magazine and Fortune) and as the article develops we'll have to evaluate which are truly significant to an encyclopedia. CorporateM ( Talk) 16:44, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
Currently the article has a long section on SAS' user community, certifications, publishing, etc. that is cited almost exclusively to primary sources. It pains me a bit to trim this section, because I know that SAS Publishing publishes a lot of books and the SAS-L listserv has a lot of history within the SAS user community, but alas, our rules clearly do not allow for such a large section using primary sources. I have offered an alternative here that summarizes the entire section in 4 sentences, using mostly secondary, rather than primary, sources.
A quick note, I am relying on a professionally edited tertiary source (the International Directory of Company Histories) to be a reliable representation of a 1993 article in Business Leader, but I have submitted an inter-library loan request in an effort to obtain an original copy. My hope is these kinds of things won't prevent us from improving the article incrementally even if there is still room for improvement if better sources are found later on, etc.. CorporateM ( Talk) 08:11, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Working my way up the article, I've put together a proposed replacement for the Software section at User:CorporateM/SAS Institute/Draft using Summary style for the main article at SAS (software). Because there is a main article about the software, the proposed draft would shorten it substantially while reducing the technical jargon that is better-suited for the software page.
Previously an editor noted that a 2011 ranking of software companies by revenue shows SAS at number 33, with some private companies listed above it. A 2012 story in The New York Times confirms what other sources say that SAS is the largest private software company. I'm not sure why there is a discrepancy between sources, but NYT seemed more reliable. CorporateM ( Talk) 18:41, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
I found this in a Computerworld article that may help explain what the software is: SAS products capture, store, manipulate, analyze and present information. SAS started with statistical tools, but it's now heavily into data warehousing, data mining and executive information systems. CorporateM ( Talk) 03:57, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
FYI, here is another description in Fast Company that I think has slightly less jargon: "SAS writes software that makes it possible to gather and understand data, to sift through mountains of information in order to find patterns and meaning." CorporateM ( Talk) 06:30, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
The "Corporate" section currently begins with a couple paragraphs on the company's financials, ownership, etc. and relies heavily on primary sources. I would like to offer a replacement that is more complete and relies more heavily on secondary sources. Both the current and proposed versions of this section are at User:CorporateM/SAS Institute/Draft for easy comparison. A couple notes:
CorporateM ( Talk) 04:43, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Following user:John Broughton's advice, I have continued to restructure the article so that it's easy to compare the current content to proposed revisions. Additionally, at the same draft space as before I have prepared both a proposed re-write of the Work Environment section and an annotated version of the current article-text, which explains some of the most significant changes.
A few notes:
Please let me know if there is any way I can make it easier to compare the two versions and confirm the proposed is an improvement. CorporateM ( Talk) 08:27, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
I would like to propose an improvement of the History section, which brings us close to the Finish Line for a GAN-ready page after the Lead. As before, I have put together my proposed copy next to the current version of the article at User:CorporateM/SAS_Institute/Draft with some annotations on why changes were made. Unlike the other sections, the proposed would actually expand the History and make it more positive/promotional than it was before (while with most other sections it was the opposite). The proposed is more comprehensive and better-sourced with secondary, rather than primary sources.
If the proposed draft does not set off a few alarm bells for promo and COI, you may not be a good Wikipedian. It's got a lot of stuff about when their employee perks were first introduced, when it started winning awards for it, its record breaking R&D spend, and its contributions to charitable causes. However, if you look at the sources carefully and/or do your own searches, I think you'll find that the proposed is representative of high-quality sources. CorporateM ( Talk) 00:47, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
The last "section" I'd like to take a shot at is the Lead, which I've written in a single paragraph below. Compared to the current Lead, it reduces some repetition on how ubiquitous the software is and adds a summary of the company's work environment, which is its primary claim to notability. Should be ready for a GAN after this! Pinging @ user:Guy Macon, who has been working on the article with me for a while now. CorporateM ( Talk) 01:06, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
Proposed Lead
SAS Institute is a developer of enterprise analytics software headquartered in
Cary, North Carolina. Its software is used by most
Fortune 500 companies to manage, present and analyze data that can assist in making decisions. SAS Institute was founded in
North Carolina State University and incorporated as a private corporation in 1976. It grew quickly and as of 2013 employs 5,200 employees. SAS is known for being a good place to work. Employees are given extensive medical benefits, life counseling services and are granted a high degree of autonomy.
-- Guy Macon ( talk) 01:31, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Protonk ( talk · contribs) 14:19, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
I figured I'd tackle this nomination as it was listed as a COI nom and who better to counteract that than an
R user! :) This is a tough article to review, as we want to be careful about tone and neutrality but coverage of SAS is overwhelmingly positive. In general I don't feel tone is a serious problem with this article, although the history section reads as a chronologically ordered list of the awesome things SAS has done (many of which are repeated later in the Workplace section). I've found a few issues with sources (detailed below) and I have some comments about organization and structure but other than that this is a good effort and I don't think much work will be needed to promote the article.
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Feel free to reply inline. I'll watch this review and I'm happy to discuss points that I've made should you feel that the article doesn't need changing or I've made an error. Thanks. Protonk ( talk) 17:26, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
user:Protonk mentioned during the GA review that we should add a quote from SAS CEO and co-founder James Goodnight regarding his approach to creating a good place to work. I did not incorporate one initially because I felt it would be perceived as COI promotion, but the reviewer is correct that there are a couple very specific quotes from Goodnight that are widely reported in the source material and the article should be representative regardless of how positive the sources are. I suggest we add:
CorporateM ( Talk) 00:33, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
I've prepared a draft expanded Lede below based on the feedback of user:Protonk in the GA review. I don't feel it would be appropriate for me to make the edit myself as a COI editor, in particular because in the past there was some discussion on whether it was promotional to include so much information about SAS as a good corporate citizen in the Lede of the article. As discussed, this is a unique case where its role as a good employer is the company's primary claim to notability and an article that is "representative of the sources" is quite positive. CorporateM ( Talk) 22:10, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
draft Lede
|
---|
SAS Institute (pronounced "sass") is a developer of analytics software based in Cary, North Carolina. SAS develops and markets a suite of analytics software (also called SAS), which helps manage, access, analyze and report on data to aid in decision-making. The company is the world's largest privately-held software business and its software is used by most of the Fortune 500. SAS has developed a model workplace environment and benefits program designed to retain employees, allow them to focus on their work, and reduce operating costs. Professor Jeffrey Pfeffer from the Stanford Graduate School of Business estimated that the company saves $60–$80 million annually in expenses related to employee turnover. It provides on-site, subsidized or free healthcare, gyms, daycare and life counseling services. SAS Institute started as a project at North Carolina State University to create a "statistical analysis software" that was originally used primarily by agricultural departments at universities in the late 1960s. It became an independent, private business led by current CEO James Goodnight and three other project leaders from the university in 1976. SAS grew from $10 million in revenues in 1980 to $1.1 billion by 2000. SAS spends 20-30 percent of its revenues on research and development, 2.5 times the industry average as of 1994. |
Some comments:
Overall with some changes it will be an improvement over the current lede. Protonk ( talk) 22:21, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
I'm using this space to store new source material as I see it. Feel free to add it to the article or wait for me to put together a Request Edit every 6-12 months or so. CorporateM ( Talk) 00:27, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
It's been about 9 months or so since I brought the SAS Institute and SAS (software) pages up to GA. I wanted to suggest a couple small additions/updates to keep them up to date.
References
CorporateM ( Talk) 20:57, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
@ Tschudi: I'm a little concerned that this edit is unsourced and overly detailed. Were there any press articles, books or other credible, independent sources that discuss the SAS Analytics U initiative? If there are good sources for it, I would suggest something more concise like "In March 2014, SAS launched SAS Analytics U, which provides free software to teachers and students." CorporateM ( Talk) 19:35, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
I'll some some information on SAS and JMP user groups to discuss here in TALK to improve the Article herein. -- Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 04:07, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
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See this 2019 newspaper article [4] -- "Five fraud victims are suing the computer system developer, SAS Analytics, and..." -- AnonMoos ( talk) 09:44, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
I came across a reference to Rothschild Concordia SAS, an investment management firm: https://www.bloomberg.com/profile/company/0566889D:FP and this ties to this release by SAS Institute that shows a link but doesn't mention ownership: https://www.sas.com/en_us/news/press-releases/2023/may/concordia-event-at-sas.html So is there an ownership connection not mentioned in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Danchall ( talk • contribs) 11:55, 11 July 2023 (UTC) (I'm not positive it's the same SAS or Concordia....) Danchall ( talk) 12:19, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
![]() | SAS Institute has been listed as one of the
Social sciences and society good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: September 23, 2014. ( Reviewed version). |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
SAS Institute article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The following Wikipedia contributor has declared a personal or professional connection to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
conflict of interest,
autobiography, and
neutral point of view.
|
See first paragraph of the article. I had a look on this list and it seems a couple of other privately held software companies are bigger now (e.g. SunGard and Infor). Tell me if I'm wrong, otherwise maybe it's better to remove that statement. Mårten Berglund ( talk) 13:35, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
Hi All. I am the original author of a majority of the article's content, which I wrote about three years ago. It needs a lot of work, in particular to reduce its reliance on primary sources and an excessive level of detail. Like I do with most articles where I have a COI, I'd like to correct my prior in-adequacies and prep the article for Good Article status. I find this is a good way to get the article vetted and re-assure the community that I'm doing good work. With that in mind, I've started working on another draft at User:CorporateM/SAS Institute and I welcome input, suggestions, etc..
There is a separate article on the company's software at SAS (software), which was just recently awarded the GA rank. The company itself is primarily notable due to its reputation as a good place to work, showing that greed isn't always the best way to run a business, etc. so I think that will make it especially challenging to remain neutral when there are a lot of fluffy anecdotes. Also for a GA reviewer to assess whether it is representative of the sources or if it is a COI thing will also be challenging. CorporateM ( Talk) 22:35, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
Working on the article from the bottom-up, I'd like to suggest we remove the SAS_Institute#Aircraft section entirely. It is cited to a document from the Federal Aviation Administration and a bizjournals article that briefly mentions SAS has its own hangar at the airport on page 2. As further context, SAS owns a lot of things (their piano is mentioned by USA Today, Inc. magazine and Fortune) and as the article develops we'll have to evaluate which are truly significant to an encyclopedia. CorporateM ( Talk) 16:44, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
Currently the article has a long section on SAS' user community, certifications, publishing, etc. that is cited almost exclusively to primary sources. It pains me a bit to trim this section, because I know that SAS Publishing publishes a lot of books and the SAS-L listserv has a lot of history within the SAS user community, but alas, our rules clearly do not allow for such a large section using primary sources. I have offered an alternative here that summarizes the entire section in 4 sentences, using mostly secondary, rather than primary, sources.
A quick note, I am relying on a professionally edited tertiary source (the International Directory of Company Histories) to be a reliable representation of a 1993 article in Business Leader, but I have submitted an inter-library loan request in an effort to obtain an original copy. My hope is these kinds of things won't prevent us from improving the article incrementally even if there is still room for improvement if better sources are found later on, etc.. CorporateM ( Talk) 08:11, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Working my way up the article, I've put together a proposed replacement for the Software section at User:CorporateM/SAS Institute/Draft using Summary style for the main article at SAS (software). Because there is a main article about the software, the proposed draft would shorten it substantially while reducing the technical jargon that is better-suited for the software page.
Previously an editor noted that a 2011 ranking of software companies by revenue shows SAS at number 33, with some private companies listed above it. A 2012 story in The New York Times confirms what other sources say that SAS is the largest private software company. I'm not sure why there is a discrepancy between sources, but NYT seemed more reliable. CorporateM ( Talk) 18:41, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
I found this in a Computerworld article that may help explain what the software is: SAS products capture, store, manipulate, analyze and present information. SAS started with statistical tools, but it's now heavily into data warehousing, data mining and executive information systems. CorporateM ( Talk) 03:57, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
FYI, here is another description in Fast Company that I think has slightly less jargon: "SAS writes software that makes it possible to gather and understand data, to sift through mountains of information in order to find patterns and meaning." CorporateM ( Talk) 06:30, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
The "Corporate" section currently begins with a couple paragraphs on the company's financials, ownership, etc. and relies heavily on primary sources. I would like to offer a replacement that is more complete and relies more heavily on secondary sources. Both the current and proposed versions of this section are at User:CorporateM/SAS Institute/Draft for easy comparison. A couple notes:
CorporateM ( Talk) 04:43, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
Following user:John Broughton's advice, I have continued to restructure the article so that it's easy to compare the current content to proposed revisions. Additionally, at the same draft space as before I have prepared both a proposed re-write of the Work Environment section and an annotated version of the current article-text, which explains some of the most significant changes.
A few notes:
Please let me know if there is any way I can make it easier to compare the two versions and confirm the proposed is an improvement. CorporateM ( Talk) 08:27, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
I would like to propose an improvement of the History section, which brings us close to the Finish Line for a GAN-ready page after the Lead. As before, I have put together my proposed copy next to the current version of the article at User:CorporateM/SAS_Institute/Draft with some annotations on why changes were made. Unlike the other sections, the proposed would actually expand the History and make it more positive/promotional than it was before (while with most other sections it was the opposite). The proposed is more comprehensive and better-sourced with secondary, rather than primary sources.
If the proposed draft does not set off a few alarm bells for promo and COI, you may not be a good Wikipedian. It's got a lot of stuff about when their employee perks were first introduced, when it started winning awards for it, its record breaking R&D spend, and its contributions to charitable causes. However, if you look at the sources carefully and/or do your own searches, I think you'll find that the proposed is representative of high-quality sources. CorporateM ( Talk) 00:47, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
The last "section" I'd like to take a shot at is the Lead, which I've written in a single paragraph below. Compared to the current Lead, it reduces some repetition on how ubiquitous the software is and adds a summary of the company's work environment, which is its primary claim to notability. Should be ready for a GAN after this! Pinging @ user:Guy Macon, who has been working on the article with me for a while now. CorporateM ( Talk) 01:06, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
Proposed Lead
SAS Institute is a developer of enterprise analytics software headquartered in
Cary, North Carolina. Its software is used by most
Fortune 500 companies to manage, present and analyze data that can assist in making decisions. SAS Institute was founded in
North Carolina State University and incorporated as a private corporation in 1976. It grew quickly and as of 2013 employs 5,200 employees. SAS is known for being a good place to work. Employees are given extensive medical benefits, life counseling services and are granted a high degree of autonomy.
-- Guy Macon ( talk) 01:31, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Protonk ( talk · contribs) 14:19, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
I figured I'd tackle this nomination as it was listed as a COI nom and who better to counteract that than an
R user! :) This is a tough article to review, as we want to be careful about tone and neutrality but coverage of SAS is overwhelmingly positive. In general I don't feel tone is a serious problem with this article, although the history section reads as a chronologically ordered list of the awesome things SAS has done (many of which are repeated later in the Workplace section). I've found a few issues with sources (detailed below) and I have some comments about organization and structure but other than that this is a good effort and I don't think much work will be needed to promote the article.
completed
|
---|
|
completed
|
---|
|
completed
|
---|
|
Feel free to reply inline. I'll watch this review and I'm happy to discuss points that I've made should you feel that the article doesn't need changing or I've made an error. Thanks. Protonk ( talk) 17:26, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
user:Protonk mentioned during the GA review that we should add a quote from SAS CEO and co-founder James Goodnight regarding his approach to creating a good place to work. I did not incorporate one initially because I felt it would be perceived as COI promotion, but the reviewer is correct that there are a couple very specific quotes from Goodnight that are widely reported in the source material and the article should be representative regardless of how positive the sources are. I suggest we add:
CorporateM ( Talk) 00:33, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
I've prepared a draft expanded Lede below based on the feedback of user:Protonk in the GA review. I don't feel it would be appropriate for me to make the edit myself as a COI editor, in particular because in the past there was some discussion on whether it was promotional to include so much information about SAS as a good corporate citizen in the Lede of the article. As discussed, this is a unique case where its role as a good employer is the company's primary claim to notability and an article that is "representative of the sources" is quite positive. CorporateM ( Talk) 22:10, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
draft Lede
|
---|
SAS Institute (pronounced "sass") is a developer of analytics software based in Cary, North Carolina. SAS develops and markets a suite of analytics software (also called SAS), which helps manage, access, analyze and report on data to aid in decision-making. The company is the world's largest privately-held software business and its software is used by most of the Fortune 500. SAS has developed a model workplace environment and benefits program designed to retain employees, allow them to focus on their work, and reduce operating costs. Professor Jeffrey Pfeffer from the Stanford Graduate School of Business estimated that the company saves $60–$80 million annually in expenses related to employee turnover. It provides on-site, subsidized or free healthcare, gyms, daycare and life counseling services. SAS Institute started as a project at North Carolina State University to create a "statistical analysis software" that was originally used primarily by agricultural departments at universities in the late 1960s. It became an independent, private business led by current CEO James Goodnight and three other project leaders from the university in 1976. SAS grew from $10 million in revenues in 1980 to $1.1 billion by 2000. SAS spends 20-30 percent of its revenues on research and development, 2.5 times the industry average as of 1994. |
Some comments:
Overall with some changes it will be an improvement over the current lede. Protonk ( talk) 22:21, 22 September 2014 (UTC)
I'm using this space to store new source material as I see it. Feel free to add it to the article or wait for me to put together a Request Edit every 6-12 months or so. CorporateM ( Talk) 00:27, 14 November 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered. |
It's been about 9 months or so since I brought the SAS Institute and SAS (software) pages up to GA. I wanted to suggest a couple small additions/updates to keep them up to date.
References
CorporateM ( Talk) 20:57, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
@ Tschudi: I'm a little concerned that this edit is unsourced and overly detailed. Were there any press articles, books or other credible, independent sources that discuss the SAS Analytics U initiative? If there are good sources for it, I would suggest something more concise like "In March 2014, SAS launched SAS Analytics U, which provides free software to teachers and students." CorporateM ( Talk) 19:35, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
I'll some some information on SAS and JMP user groups to discuss here in TALK to improve the Article herein. -- Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 04:07, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on SAS Institute. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 11:07, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
See this 2019 newspaper article [4] -- "Five fraud victims are suing the computer system developer, SAS Analytics, and..." -- AnonMoos ( talk) 09:44, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
I came across a reference to Rothschild Concordia SAS, an investment management firm: https://www.bloomberg.com/profile/company/0566889D:FP and this ties to this release by SAS Institute that shows a link but doesn't mention ownership: https://www.sas.com/en_us/news/press-releases/2023/may/concordia-event-at-sas.html So is there an ownership connection not mentioned in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Danchall ( talk • contribs) 11:55, 11 July 2023 (UTC) (I'm not positive it's the same SAS or Concordia....) Danchall ( talk) 12:19, 11 July 2023 (UTC)