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The list is biased and needs to be updated. Or removed. BenficaNNossaPaixao ( talk)
I don't know who created, but biased how?-- Threeohsix ( talk) 16:54, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
It' also subjective. In my opinion these are not notable players: Sílvio, Miguel Lopes, André Carvalhas, Leandro Pimenta, Romeu Ribeiro, Miguel Rosa, David Simão, Miguel Vítor, Leandro Pimenta, Ruben Lima, Lassana Camará, Rúben Pinto. BenficaNNossaPaixao ( talk) 19:06, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
I agree, but I wouldn't be bother, maybe remove a few like "André Carvalhas, Leandro Pimenta, Romeu Ribeiro, Miguel Rosa, David Simão, Leandro Pimenta, Ruben Lima, Lassana Camará" that never played for Benfica. Others like Silvio ou Vlad Chirches have notability and it's good to have them present.-- Threeohsix ( talk) 19:00, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
I changed "notable" to "known". BenficaNNossaPaixao ( talk)
"Known former players" should mean ex- football players, not active ones. BenficaNNossaPaixao ( talk) 19:15, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
@ BenficaNNossaPaixao, Threeohsix, Besteirense, and The Replicator: I do not agree with the criteria used in this section. Why only players who played in the Primeira Liga? What is the difference between Clésio, who played 63 minutes in Primeira Liga, and David Simão who played 65 minutes in two Taça de Portugal games? I think the criteria should be "Players who played for Benfica's first team."
What do you think? P3DRO ( talk) 17:07, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
Benfica isn't Sporting Lisbon, so we shouldn't add players that didn't become notable at Benfica without a valid reason and source. "In rare exceptions, some graduates debuted for the first-team but left the club before reaching 25 matches and went on to achieve recognition elsewhere while representing their country at full international level" is subjective. "Additionally, outstanding performances (Player of the Year) without ever playing for Benfica are also noteworthy of inclusion": problem is original research, and p3dro adds players without adequate sources. "Manchester City Player of the Year" has nothing to do with Benfica, and it's simply a club award. Rúben Dias was awarded FWA Footballer of the Year (a notable honour), while Bernardo Silva and João Cancelo weren't. As for the "full international level" debut, one or a few appearances for the Jorge Mendes national team doesn't make them notable, so maybe we should impose a minimum number of matches for Portugal, e.g. 25. SLBedit ( talk) 19:16, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
Maniche: played more than 25 matches with Benfica; included. Miguel Rosa: no 25 matches with Benfica, not a full international; removed. Vlad Chiricheș: was 18 years old when he arrived at Benfica, spending only one year there, thus not graduating; removed. Bernardo Silva: 25 caps for Portugal in 2018; included. João Cancelo: 2 matches with Benfica, reached 25 caps for Portugal in 2021; included. António Silva: no 25 matches for Benfica or Portugal; temporarily removed. SLBedit ( talk) 23:45, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
p3dro is blindly reverting my edits claiming there is a consensus here. There isn't. SLBedit ( talk) 10:54, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
@ BenficaNNossaPaixao, Threeohsix, Besteirense, and The Replicator: Please read and comment what I recently wrote above and the changes I've made to the article. SLBedit ( talk) 20:39, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
@ Threeohsix, Besteirense, and The Replicator: This page is about Benfica Juniors, a very concrete section of Benfica's youth system. The Junior team are the U19 not the U17, U15, etc. I thinks the honour section should only focus the U19 honours. The same for the page's header. The Current squad and the Technical staff sections are only about the Juniors. I think the page need some coherence.
What do you think? P3DRO ( talk) 17:04, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved as requested per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 06:21, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
S.L. Benfica Juniors → S.L. Benfica (youth) – Although the article is mainly about Benfica's under-19 team, it also has information on the club's youth system. Moreover, "Benfica Juniors", a translation of "Juniores do Benfica", isn't common in the English media, unlike "Benfica U(-)19" or "Benfica under-19" (sub-19 in Portuguese). In addition, Benfica U19 play(s) in the UEFA Youth League, so it makes sense for the name of the article to use "youth". SLBedit ( talk) 22:13, 14 June 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. >>> Extorc. talk 06:11, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
The correct European Portuguese pronunciation is juniores ("junióres"), not juniores ("juníores"). [1] SLBedit ( talk) 17:57, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
@ Sol505000: Please listen to the correct pronunciation of "juniores" at 08:03. https://www.rtp.pt/play/p11208/e684022/voz-do-cidadao SLBedit ( talk) 20:06, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
Now, onto the voicing of the final /ʃ/. Per Cruz-Ferreira (1999:128),Source: [1]. Sol505000 ( talk) 23:57, 12 April 2023 (UTC)Syllable-final /ʃ/ occurs as [ ʒ before a voiced consonant (except before /ʒ/ itself, where it is deleted), and as [ z before a syllable-initial vowel both within and across word boundaries, as in [ku̯al duʒ doi̯z ɛɾɔ] qual dos dois era o 'which of the two (m) was the (m)' in the transcribed passage.Her [ku̯al duʒ doi̯z ɛɾɔ] translates into our [kwal duʒ ðojz ɛɾɐ ɔ] per Help:IPA/Portuguese and Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Pronunciation#Other languages. In the context of Portugese, Spanish, Swedish, Norwegian, Polish etc. we transcribe how the whole phrases are pronounced, not just individual words (not even robots speak like that).
References
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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The list is biased and needs to be updated. Or removed. BenficaNNossaPaixao ( talk)
I don't know who created, but biased how?-- Threeohsix ( talk) 16:54, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
It' also subjective. In my opinion these are not notable players: Sílvio, Miguel Lopes, André Carvalhas, Leandro Pimenta, Romeu Ribeiro, Miguel Rosa, David Simão, Miguel Vítor, Leandro Pimenta, Ruben Lima, Lassana Camará, Rúben Pinto. BenficaNNossaPaixao ( talk) 19:06, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
I agree, but I wouldn't be bother, maybe remove a few like "André Carvalhas, Leandro Pimenta, Romeu Ribeiro, Miguel Rosa, David Simão, Leandro Pimenta, Ruben Lima, Lassana Camará" that never played for Benfica. Others like Silvio ou Vlad Chirches have notability and it's good to have them present.-- Threeohsix ( talk) 19:00, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
I changed "notable" to "known". BenficaNNossaPaixao ( talk)
"Known former players" should mean ex- football players, not active ones. BenficaNNossaPaixao ( talk) 19:15, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
@ BenficaNNossaPaixao, Threeohsix, Besteirense, and The Replicator: I do not agree with the criteria used in this section. Why only players who played in the Primeira Liga? What is the difference between Clésio, who played 63 minutes in Primeira Liga, and David Simão who played 65 minutes in two Taça de Portugal games? I think the criteria should be "Players who played for Benfica's first team."
What do you think? P3DRO ( talk) 17:07, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
Benfica isn't Sporting Lisbon, so we shouldn't add players that didn't become notable at Benfica without a valid reason and source. "In rare exceptions, some graduates debuted for the first-team but left the club before reaching 25 matches and went on to achieve recognition elsewhere while representing their country at full international level" is subjective. "Additionally, outstanding performances (Player of the Year) without ever playing for Benfica are also noteworthy of inclusion": problem is original research, and p3dro adds players without adequate sources. "Manchester City Player of the Year" has nothing to do with Benfica, and it's simply a club award. Rúben Dias was awarded FWA Footballer of the Year (a notable honour), while Bernardo Silva and João Cancelo weren't. As for the "full international level" debut, one or a few appearances for the Jorge Mendes national team doesn't make them notable, so maybe we should impose a minimum number of matches for Portugal, e.g. 25. SLBedit ( talk) 19:16, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
Maniche: played more than 25 matches with Benfica; included. Miguel Rosa: no 25 matches with Benfica, not a full international; removed. Vlad Chiricheș: was 18 years old when he arrived at Benfica, spending only one year there, thus not graduating; removed. Bernardo Silva: 25 caps for Portugal in 2018; included. João Cancelo: 2 matches with Benfica, reached 25 caps for Portugal in 2021; included. António Silva: no 25 matches for Benfica or Portugal; temporarily removed. SLBedit ( talk) 23:45, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
p3dro is blindly reverting my edits claiming there is a consensus here. There isn't. SLBedit ( talk) 10:54, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
@ BenficaNNossaPaixao, Threeohsix, Besteirense, and The Replicator: Please read and comment what I recently wrote above and the changes I've made to the article. SLBedit ( talk) 20:39, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
@ Threeohsix, Besteirense, and The Replicator: This page is about Benfica Juniors, a very concrete section of Benfica's youth system. The Junior team are the U19 not the U17, U15, etc. I thinks the honour section should only focus the U19 honours. The same for the page's header. The Current squad and the Technical staff sections are only about the Juniors. I think the page need some coherence.
What do you think? P3DRO ( talk) 17:04, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved as requested per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 06:21, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
S.L. Benfica Juniors → S.L. Benfica (youth) – Although the article is mainly about Benfica's under-19 team, it also has information on the club's youth system. Moreover, "Benfica Juniors", a translation of "Juniores do Benfica", isn't common in the English media, unlike "Benfica U(-)19" or "Benfica under-19" (sub-19 in Portuguese). In addition, Benfica U19 play(s) in the UEFA Youth League, so it makes sense for the name of the article to use "youth". SLBedit ( talk) 22:13, 14 June 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. >>> Extorc. talk 06:11, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
The correct European Portuguese pronunciation is juniores ("junióres"), not juniores ("juníores"). [1] SLBedit ( talk) 17:57, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
@ Sol505000: Please listen to the correct pronunciation of "juniores" at 08:03. https://www.rtp.pt/play/p11208/e684022/voz-do-cidadao SLBedit ( talk) 20:06, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
Now, onto the voicing of the final /ʃ/. Per Cruz-Ferreira (1999:128),Source: [1]. Sol505000 ( talk) 23:57, 12 April 2023 (UTC)Syllable-final /ʃ/ occurs as [ ʒ before a voiced consonant (except before /ʒ/ itself, where it is deleted), and as [ z before a syllable-initial vowel both within and across word boundaries, as in [ku̯al duʒ doi̯z ɛɾɔ] qual dos dois era o 'which of the two (m) was the (m)' in the transcribed passage.Her [ku̯al duʒ doi̯z ɛɾɔ] translates into our [kwal duʒ ðojz ɛɾɐ ɔ] per Help:IPA/Portuguese and Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Pronunciation#Other languages. In the context of Portugese, Spanish, Swedish, Norwegian, Polish etc. we transcribe how the whole phrases are pronounced, not just individual words (not even robots speak like that).
References