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Archive 1 |
There's one point missing about the Moldovan (Romanian) language. Originally, that language was written in Cyrillic, and introduction of Latin script was politically motivated. Thus, use of Cyrillic in the MSSR can be regarded as restoration of the original script. Today, quite many Moldovans continue using Cyrillic in spite of the fact that it's no longer official in Moldova (however, it is in the Transnistrian Moldovan Republic). Some of them say that use of Cyrillic stresses their national identity (not being Romanian). -- Gabix 10:23, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
I don't understand what you mean by "vanity". Moldovan is the same thing as Romanian. Two-thirds of the Moldovans declared "Romanian" as their native language at the last census. bogdan | Talk 18:51, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
I plan to rewrite this article, removing all the unreferenced POV comments like "some say" or "some opposition forces argue". IMHO it is another way of saying "I think..." or "my neighbour argues..." Also, can anybody clear up the phrase "in all Russian regions, including those of Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan", before I rephrase it too? -- Ghirlandajo 20:07, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
Ghirlandajo, if you insist that these sentences are not about Russification:
then why did you put them into this article in the first place ? -- Lysy ( talk) 14:20, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
"Russian is an offical language in Crimea, an autonomous republic within Ukraine, however." It is not. It is widespread, but it's not official according to Crimean constitution (state 10 of it says, that Russian, Crimea-tatar and other languages can be used and must be protected as good as state language (which is ukrainian, as at all the other Ukraine territory).
The following statement is false. "As such, schools where non-Russian Soviet languages would be taught weren't available outside the respective ethnically based administrational units of these ethnicities; the same could be said about the cultural institutions." My grandma worked as an accoucheur for some 10 years serving a group of three neighboring Tatar-populated villages in the South of Gorky oblast (now Nizhniy Novgorod oblast). Like all of the social life, the school teaching was in Tatar language; Russian language was taught additionally, in higher classes. My grandma did study the language (despite another claim in the article) to communicate with the local citizens. There were and are Tatar schools in Gorkiy/Nizhniy Novgorod, which, although generally Russian-populated, has quite a large Tatar diaspora. -- Achp ru 15:35, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Or is it the same thing?-- 68.85.27.47 23:40, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Because a lot of new material has been added to the Soviet Union section, I have identified major subsections based first of all chronologically, with substantive labels for sub-subsections where appropriate. Also, I have added numerous citations and footnotes to facts and background literature. I hope this is helpful.-- Mack2 19:20, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Moved from the article page to talk. SeventyThree( Talk) 17:32, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
{{ Image requested}}
any apt material to break the sections into easier to read segments and provide support for the article visually
I had to learn Russian at school, even if I wanted to learn English. I had to read Murzilka or something like that. The same was in any Soviet block country. Hungarians and East Germans were quite resistant. Xx236 15:00, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
The same sentence twice. Xx236 15:03, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I mean that the Russian language was taught as a tool of Sovietization rather than classical Russification. So not typo but basic difference. Xx236 16:33, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Someone take that "citation needed" sign from "it was mandatory for all children to learn russian in school" or whatever. Some one is darn blind or plane stupid. I CITATE and my whole family, and my whole family's friends, and a whole nation, and a whole eastern block that WE WERE FORCED TO LEARN RUSSIAN IN SCHOOLS!!! It's like doubting that killing is imoral for the reason that we need citations... dumb... And there is no sovietatization or whatever without russification because the ultimate goal is the merging into one mentality to ease the denationalization of the minorities (although russians were NOT in an absolute majority in the Soviet Union even if the censuses state they were 50%. blind fake.)
“ | That's also true for many other countries, spanish-speaking population of USA, for example. Also, compare that to strict lingual policy of France, which made all other languages besides official French practically extinct, you'll realise that respect to minor languages in Russia and Soviet Union wasn't formal. Most of spoken languages of former Russian Empire and Soviet Union are well-alive nowadays, and now it's Russians themselves are the suppressed minorities in these new states. | ” |
Unreferenced claims:
The comparison with other countries may have some merit however it should be referenced and written in encyclopaedic style. Alæxis ¿question? 11:31, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
I have some collection of international links to Ukrainian and European ethnographic maps. Maybe it will help to see the difference with the current state:
This section is not only very lacking in sources but it does not treat the subject in any systematic way. It relates a few undocumented anecdotes about some regions of the former Soviet space (e.g., Tatarstan, Belarus, Ukraine), but leaves out most of the Russian Federation and doesn't touch on some of the regions that were covered earlier in the (main) article (Baltic, Moldova). What would be most helpful is a well documented section on the current status of Russification (or derussification) in each area of the former Soviet space, including perhaps a focus on Russian language and culture in the media and education. --Mack2 ( talk) 06:08, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
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File:Discrimination of Ukrainian language.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
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Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
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The article doesn't go into the Russian Empire's attempts to russify Non Russian Orthodox churches, especially in the caucasus like the Georgiana dn Armenian churches.
http://nftu.net/abolish-church-slavonic-institute-vernacular/
http://books.google.com/books?id=RSxt-JB-PDkC&pg=PA8#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=q_189OeDwSMC&pg=PA54#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=50GTIhntKvYC&pg=PA190#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=-XzKVba8xN8C&pg=PA195#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=aRJJ9qs6PeQC&pg=PA13#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=UFETmNH-nm4C&pg=PA197#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=JQRTev1AHjQC&pg=PA194#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=TlD2z8KiE_AC&pg=PA232#v=onepage&q&f=false
23:29, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
Why is there is no mention that during czarist rule, the Russian government made great efforts to convert Jews to Christianity and forcibly assimilate them into Russia? Military conscription where Jews were encouraged to convert to Christianity, the state government heavily regulating Jewish communal life, forcing Jews to use Russian, French, or German instead of Yiddish.
And of course there was the even harsher forms of Russification during the Soviet Union. The commies outright banned Hebrew, shut down synagogues and converted them into Communist offices, and forced Jews to give up their religion and culture in favor of Russian identity. The Communists recruited self-hating Jews called Yevsektsiya to do their dirty work.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2606:6000:fd07:e900:8422:2271:e028:5d6 ( talk • contribs)
The article lacks information about russification of names. Most Soviet republics were forced to use the russian name structure, which would include a first name, a patronym (your father's first name) with -ovich/ovna, and a last name with -ev/a or -ov/ova, but didn't allow any other names. For example, a person named George Walker Bush (whose father is also named George) would be forced to rename himself as George Georgovich Bushov. This naming structure still persists in many ex-Soviet nations, although many are abandoning it and reverting to their culture/ethnicity's original naming structures. Someone with more knowledge should write/add more info about this to the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Donbom2 ( talk • contribs) 02:39, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Russification/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Has shown continuous improvement in coverage and accuracy. Needs more attention to the situation in the Russian Federation since 1991 as well as to the situations in some of the former non-Russian republics of the Soviet Union in which substantial numbers of Russian-speakers still reside. --Mack2 ( talk) 20:31, 19 April 2008 (UTC) |
Last edited at 20:32, 19 April 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 05:06, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
Too much of this article is about the USSR, and some of that material is about the opposite of Russification. This is partly because the information about Tsarist times has not been expanded, but the effect is that it creates a very biased article, whether intentionally or not.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 20:58, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
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![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
There's one point missing about the Moldovan (Romanian) language. Originally, that language was written in Cyrillic, and introduction of Latin script was politically motivated. Thus, use of Cyrillic in the MSSR can be regarded as restoration of the original script. Today, quite many Moldovans continue using Cyrillic in spite of the fact that it's no longer official in Moldova (however, it is in the Transnistrian Moldovan Republic). Some of them say that use of Cyrillic stresses their national identity (not being Romanian). -- Gabix 10:23, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
I don't understand what you mean by "vanity". Moldovan is the same thing as Romanian. Two-thirds of the Moldovans declared "Romanian" as their native language at the last census. bogdan | Talk 18:51, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
I plan to rewrite this article, removing all the unreferenced POV comments like "some say" or "some opposition forces argue". IMHO it is another way of saying "I think..." or "my neighbour argues..." Also, can anybody clear up the phrase "in all Russian regions, including those of Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan", before I rephrase it too? -- Ghirlandajo 20:07, 10 September 2005 (UTC)
Ghirlandajo, if you insist that these sentences are not about Russification:
then why did you put them into this article in the first place ? -- Lysy ( talk) 14:20, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
"Russian is an offical language in Crimea, an autonomous republic within Ukraine, however." It is not. It is widespread, but it's not official according to Crimean constitution (state 10 of it says, that Russian, Crimea-tatar and other languages can be used and must be protected as good as state language (which is ukrainian, as at all the other Ukraine territory).
The following statement is false. "As such, schools where non-Russian Soviet languages would be taught weren't available outside the respective ethnically based administrational units of these ethnicities; the same could be said about the cultural institutions." My grandma worked as an accoucheur for some 10 years serving a group of three neighboring Tatar-populated villages in the South of Gorky oblast (now Nizhniy Novgorod oblast). Like all of the social life, the school teaching was in Tatar language; Russian language was taught additionally, in higher classes. My grandma did study the language (despite another claim in the article) to communicate with the local citizens. There were and are Tatar schools in Gorkiy/Nizhniy Novgorod, which, although generally Russian-populated, has quite a large Tatar diaspora. -- Achp ru 15:35, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Or is it the same thing?-- 68.85.27.47 23:40, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Because a lot of new material has been added to the Soviet Union section, I have identified major subsections based first of all chronologically, with substantive labels for sub-subsections where appropriate. Also, I have added numerous citations and footnotes to facts and background literature. I hope this is helpful.-- Mack2 19:20, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Moved from the article page to talk. SeventyThree( Talk) 17:32, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
{{ Image requested}}
any apt material to break the sections into easier to read segments and provide support for the article visually
I had to learn Russian at school, even if I wanted to learn English. I had to read Murzilka or something like that. The same was in any Soviet block country. Hungarians and East Germans were quite resistant. Xx236 15:00, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
The same sentence twice. Xx236 15:03, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I mean that the Russian language was taught as a tool of Sovietization rather than classical Russification. So not typo but basic difference. Xx236 16:33, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Someone take that "citation needed" sign from "it was mandatory for all children to learn russian in school" or whatever. Some one is darn blind or plane stupid. I CITATE and my whole family, and my whole family's friends, and a whole nation, and a whole eastern block that WE WERE FORCED TO LEARN RUSSIAN IN SCHOOLS!!! It's like doubting that killing is imoral for the reason that we need citations... dumb... And there is no sovietatization or whatever without russification because the ultimate goal is the merging into one mentality to ease the denationalization of the minorities (although russians were NOT in an absolute majority in the Soviet Union even if the censuses state they were 50%. blind fake.)
“ | That's also true for many other countries, spanish-speaking population of USA, for example. Also, compare that to strict lingual policy of France, which made all other languages besides official French practically extinct, you'll realise that respect to minor languages in Russia and Soviet Union wasn't formal. Most of spoken languages of former Russian Empire and Soviet Union are well-alive nowadays, and now it's Russians themselves are the suppressed minorities in these new states. | ” |
Unreferenced claims:
The comparison with other countries may have some merit however it should be referenced and written in encyclopaedic style. Alæxis ¿question? 11:31, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
I have some collection of international links to Ukrainian and European ethnographic maps. Maybe it will help to see the difference with the current state:
This section is not only very lacking in sources but it does not treat the subject in any systematic way. It relates a few undocumented anecdotes about some regions of the former Soviet space (e.g., Tatarstan, Belarus, Ukraine), but leaves out most of the Russian Federation and doesn't touch on some of the regions that were covered earlier in the (main) article (Baltic, Moldova). What would be most helpful is a well documented section on the current status of Russification (or derussification) in each area of the former Soviet space, including perhaps a focus on Russian language and culture in the media and education. --Mack2 ( talk) 06:08, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
![]() |
An image used in this article,
File:Discrimination of Ukrainian language.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests - No timestamp given
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Discrimination of Ukrainian language.jpg) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 19:32, 1 March 2012 (UTC) |
The article doesn't go into the Russian Empire's attempts to russify Non Russian Orthodox churches, especially in the caucasus like the Georgiana dn Armenian churches.
http://nftu.net/abolish-church-slavonic-institute-vernacular/
http://books.google.com/books?id=RSxt-JB-PDkC&pg=PA8#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=q_189OeDwSMC&pg=PA54#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=50GTIhntKvYC&pg=PA190#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=-XzKVba8xN8C&pg=PA195#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=aRJJ9qs6PeQC&pg=PA13#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=UFETmNH-nm4C&pg=PA197#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=JQRTev1AHjQC&pg=PA194#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=TlD2z8KiE_AC&pg=PA232#v=onepage&q&f=false
23:29, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
Why is there is no mention that during czarist rule, the Russian government made great efforts to convert Jews to Christianity and forcibly assimilate them into Russia? Military conscription where Jews were encouraged to convert to Christianity, the state government heavily regulating Jewish communal life, forcing Jews to use Russian, French, or German instead of Yiddish.
And of course there was the even harsher forms of Russification during the Soviet Union. The commies outright banned Hebrew, shut down synagogues and converted them into Communist offices, and forced Jews to give up their religion and culture in favor of Russian identity. The Communists recruited self-hating Jews called Yevsektsiya to do their dirty work.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 2606:6000:fd07:e900:8422:2271:e028:5d6 ( talk • contribs)
The article lacks information about russification of names. Most Soviet republics were forced to use the russian name structure, which would include a first name, a patronym (your father's first name) with -ovich/ovna, and a last name with -ev/a or -ov/ova, but didn't allow any other names. For example, a person named George Walker Bush (whose father is also named George) would be forced to rename himself as George Georgovich Bushov. This naming structure still persists in many ex-Soviet nations, although many are abandoning it and reverting to their culture/ethnicity's original naming structures. Someone with more knowledge should write/add more info about this to the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Donbom2 ( talk • contribs) 02:39, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Russification/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Has shown continuous improvement in coverage and accuracy. Needs more attention to the situation in the Russian Federation since 1991 as well as to the situations in some of the former non-Russian republics of the Soviet Union in which substantial numbers of Russian-speakers still reside. --Mack2 ( talk) 20:31, 19 April 2008 (UTC) |
Last edited at 20:32, 19 April 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 05:06, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
Too much of this article is about the USSR, and some of that material is about the opposite of Russification. This is partly because the information about Tsarist times has not been expanded, but the effect is that it creates a very biased article, whether intentionally or not.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 20:58, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on Russification. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:04, 11 December 2017 (UTC)