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I would divide the article (and articles about the Kherson and Kharkov regions) into two: 1) military occupation by the armed forces. 2) the occupation administration (puppet government) within this military occupation.
"Russian occupation of Zaporizhzhia Oblast" - an article about the control, capture of cities by Russia, as well as the military commandant's office in these cities. article "Zaporizhzhia Oblact Military–Civilian Administration" - an article about the government, the executive authority in these territories (in the near future, probably, the government of Zaporozhye / Kherson regions as part of Russia)
Of course, these two articles are closely related, but the article "Russia" is not combined with "Mishustin's Cabinet". Military occupation is still not identical to the Civil (albeit nominally) government.
I would like to ask your opinion about splitting this article into two. PLATEL ( talk) 19:34, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
I think it would be better and easier for Wikipedia readers to just have a single article about both aspects (occupation and administration), as they will not have to be going back and forward between articles to fully understand the event. Instead, I propose that a sub-article be made about the military occupation that ocurred before the establishment of the administration; the "background". And maybe do an article (if it hasn't been made yet) of the battle, operation, etc. behind the occupation? Magnetizedlion27 ( talk) 01:31, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
Bad idea. We have one article about oblast and occupation. So it will be the same for the administration. -- Panam2014 ( talk) 16:50, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
Hi Currently, Zaporizhzhia oblast is a puppet state recognized by Russia. Should we change the infobox? [1] Panam2014 ( talk) 22:52, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
So we have two things. Russian occupation and Russia's defunct military councils. This can confuse some users. So the occupation continues, however those two councils are defunct, and created as oblasts by Russia. Thoughts? Beshogur ( talk) 20:07, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
Should it be Military-Civilian Administration and not Occupation administration?
One of the three categories present on this wiki is Occupation administration. I do admit that occupation is used a lot more than MCA, but I would think that the naming of Military-civilian administration would fit better than Occupation administration. It was run by a basis of an installed "civilian"-government with legislature & departments under the wing of a military command rather than a de-centralized territory inferred by the broad word of occupation. Category accuracy-wise, the specific terminology used for its governance is Military-Civilian Administration, not Occupation administration. I also would think that this would be more specific to the contents within this category and would still retain the neutrality of the page.
Moreover, I bring up this question, as this category name is also based on wording used in the Russian occupation of Kherson Oblast Wikipedia page. Seen here, concerning the same contents. Thus standardization? By using MCA instead of OA, It would be easier, simpler, and quick for Wikipedia readers to identify and read its contents after switching articles; and also instantly differ it from the Occupation category above it.
Any thoughts? Kaliper1 ( talk) 04:58, 3 October 2022 (UTC) Edit/s to this comment: Wording (change to Within)
I've done your work for you. The administrations have been renamed to "oblasts" and have been annexed by Russia. The administrations are still de facto the same as they were before, just with new clothing. It's the same with the DPR, the LPR, and Kherson Oblast. Same person, different clothes. If I took off my yellow jacket and put on a blue jacket, I would still be Jargo Nautilus in a jacket either way. Jargo Nautilus ( talk) 14:12, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
See Talk:Russian occupation of Kherson Oblast/Archive 1#NPOV Rule break; renaming request. Kleinpecan ( talk) 12:41, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
Why was the page about the Zhaphorizha and Kherson Oblast as part of russia deleted? As far as I understand the Military-Civilian Administrations have been dissolved and the regions incorporated into Russia so a page should've been created for that.
Furthermore, I don't understand why the pages for the Luhansk and Donetsk PR as republics within Russia have been deleted. The previous entities have been dissolved and shouldn't be in the same article in my opinion. Anyone can tell me why those pages were deleted? 2A02:2F08:861B:2700:E99E:E9B9:4B50:F96C ( talk) 07:47, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
"Showing De Facto control has always been part of Wikipedia..."- Do you have a source for this? I don't think this statement is true in the slightest. Most of the territorial disputes that are displayed in info-box maps on Wikipedia have the distinction of being old, and sometimes very old. For example, the dispute over the sovereignty of Taiwan is practically ancient (not actually though), being traced back all the way to 1895 when Japan annexed Taiwan via the Treaty of Shimonoseki. The modern PRC claim to Taiwan can be traced back to the establishment of the PRC in 1949, which is still relatively old. As per WP:RECENTISM, WP:CRYSTAL, and WP:NOTNEWS, a distinction has to be drawn between long-existing territorial disputes such as Taiwan and very recent territorial disputes such as Russia's claims to several parts of Ukraine. Jargo Nautilus ( talk) 05:49, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
The Kingdom of Italy and the Current Italian Republic have different articles because there has been a change in title. It shouldn't be any different here.- Along with most of the other things you've said, you've scored the bullseye for stating something that is incredibly incorrect. For there to be a "change in title" of a certain country, that change in title has to be internationally recognised, with the exception of historical entities that (1) preceded the creation of the United Nations and (2) are explicitly described by reliable secondary sources.
"Shouldnt a seperate article or disclaimer or note or info box or anything relfect this?"
Such change would reflect the fact Russia has incorporated Zaporizhzhia Oblast into its territory. El819 ( talk) 15:08, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
Can someone change information about territorial (administrative and municipal) divisions of Russian-occupied Zaporizhzhia Oblast? https://zapgov.ru/%d0%b2%d1%80%d0%b8%d0%be-%d0%b3%d1%83%d0%b1%d0%b5%d1%80%d0%bd%d0%b0%d1%82%d0%be%d1%80%d0%b0-%d0%b4%d0%be%d0%ba%d1%83%d0%bc%d0%b5%d0%bd%d1%82%d1%8b/ Lukdmi ( talk) 12:13, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
Hello, I believe updates are needed to this page.
First of all, a new administrative division has been approved like in Kherson region. Here is the decree: https://zapgov.ru/врио-губернатора-документы/указ-врио-21-у-от-03-03-2023/. There are maps there that can be used here. The part about administrative divisions should this be changed.
Secondly a new flag and coat of arms have been adopted with slight modifications. Here is the decree: https://zapgov.ru/врио-губернатора-документы/распоряжение-об-утверждении-герба-и-ф-2/. It would be good if someone would make new SVG versions based on it.
In other things I think the pages a standard should be adopted for the pages concerning the Russian occupation administrations. This page should be made similar to the one about Kherson region, so among others a table for districts and a table for the government composition etc.
I would also propose adding the map of Russia with Zaporozhye highlighted to the infobox below or above the territorial control map or next to the annexation section, as well as a section detailing the flag and coat of arms.
Also in the infobox like in the Kherson article the names of the region in in both Russian and Ukrainian with transliteration should be added. Also the name itself should be cleared up as the Zaporozhye region exists as a federal subject of Russia, but the Zaporozhye Military-Civilian Administration has not been dissolved and still exists as the official name for it's government. CactusCartocratus ( talk) 02:56, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
The redirect
Zaporozhye Oblast has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 March 25 § Zaporozhye Oblast until a consensus is reached.
HappyWith (
talk) 12:31, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
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contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to Eastern Europe or the Balkans, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
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A graph should have been displayed here but
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![]() | Governor of Zaporozhye Oblast was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 25 June 2023 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Russian occupation of Zaporizhzhia Oblast. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
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I would divide the article (and articles about the Kherson and Kharkov regions) into two: 1) military occupation by the armed forces. 2) the occupation administration (puppet government) within this military occupation.
"Russian occupation of Zaporizhzhia Oblast" - an article about the control, capture of cities by Russia, as well as the military commandant's office in these cities. article "Zaporizhzhia Oblact Military–Civilian Administration" - an article about the government, the executive authority in these territories (in the near future, probably, the government of Zaporozhye / Kherson regions as part of Russia)
Of course, these two articles are closely related, but the article "Russia" is not combined with "Mishustin's Cabinet". Military occupation is still not identical to the Civil (albeit nominally) government.
I would like to ask your opinion about splitting this article into two. PLATEL ( talk) 19:34, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
I think it would be better and easier for Wikipedia readers to just have a single article about both aspects (occupation and administration), as they will not have to be going back and forward between articles to fully understand the event. Instead, I propose that a sub-article be made about the military occupation that ocurred before the establishment of the administration; the "background". And maybe do an article (if it hasn't been made yet) of the battle, operation, etc. behind the occupation? Magnetizedlion27 ( talk) 01:31, 2 October 2022 (UTC)
Bad idea. We have one article about oblast and occupation. So it will be the same for the administration. -- Panam2014 ( talk) 16:50, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
Hi Currently, Zaporizhzhia oblast is a puppet state recognized by Russia. Should we change the infobox? [1] Panam2014 ( talk) 22:52, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
So we have two things. Russian occupation and Russia's defunct military councils. This can confuse some users. So the occupation continues, however those two councils are defunct, and created as oblasts by Russia. Thoughts? Beshogur ( talk) 20:07, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
Should it be Military-Civilian Administration and not Occupation administration?
One of the three categories present on this wiki is Occupation administration. I do admit that occupation is used a lot more than MCA, but I would think that the naming of Military-civilian administration would fit better than Occupation administration. It was run by a basis of an installed "civilian"-government with legislature & departments under the wing of a military command rather than a de-centralized territory inferred by the broad word of occupation. Category accuracy-wise, the specific terminology used for its governance is Military-Civilian Administration, not Occupation administration. I also would think that this would be more specific to the contents within this category and would still retain the neutrality of the page.
Moreover, I bring up this question, as this category name is also based on wording used in the Russian occupation of Kherson Oblast Wikipedia page. Seen here, concerning the same contents. Thus standardization? By using MCA instead of OA, It would be easier, simpler, and quick for Wikipedia readers to identify and read its contents after switching articles; and also instantly differ it from the Occupation category above it.
Any thoughts? Kaliper1 ( talk) 04:58, 3 October 2022 (UTC) Edit/s to this comment: Wording (change to Within)
I've done your work for you. The administrations have been renamed to "oblasts" and have been annexed by Russia. The administrations are still de facto the same as they were before, just with new clothing. It's the same with the DPR, the LPR, and Kherson Oblast. Same person, different clothes. If I took off my yellow jacket and put on a blue jacket, I would still be Jargo Nautilus in a jacket either way. Jargo Nautilus ( talk) 14:12, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
See Talk:Russian occupation of Kherson Oblast/Archive 1#NPOV Rule break; renaming request. Kleinpecan ( talk) 12:41, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
Why was the page about the Zhaphorizha and Kherson Oblast as part of russia deleted? As far as I understand the Military-Civilian Administrations have been dissolved and the regions incorporated into Russia so a page should've been created for that.
Furthermore, I don't understand why the pages for the Luhansk and Donetsk PR as republics within Russia have been deleted. The previous entities have been dissolved and shouldn't be in the same article in my opinion. Anyone can tell me why those pages were deleted? 2A02:2F08:861B:2700:E99E:E9B9:4B50:F96C ( talk) 07:47, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
"Showing De Facto control has always been part of Wikipedia..."- Do you have a source for this? I don't think this statement is true in the slightest. Most of the territorial disputes that are displayed in info-box maps on Wikipedia have the distinction of being old, and sometimes very old. For example, the dispute over the sovereignty of Taiwan is practically ancient (not actually though), being traced back all the way to 1895 when Japan annexed Taiwan via the Treaty of Shimonoseki. The modern PRC claim to Taiwan can be traced back to the establishment of the PRC in 1949, which is still relatively old. As per WP:RECENTISM, WP:CRYSTAL, and WP:NOTNEWS, a distinction has to be drawn between long-existing territorial disputes such as Taiwan and very recent territorial disputes such as Russia's claims to several parts of Ukraine. Jargo Nautilus ( talk) 05:49, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
The Kingdom of Italy and the Current Italian Republic have different articles because there has been a change in title. It shouldn't be any different here.- Along with most of the other things you've said, you've scored the bullseye for stating something that is incredibly incorrect. For there to be a "change in title" of a certain country, that change in title has to be internationally recognised, with the exception of historical entities that (1) preceded the creation of the United Nations and (2) are explicitly described by reliable secondary sources.
"Shouldnt a seperate article or disclaimer or note or info box or anything relfect this?"
Such change would reflect the fact Russia has incorporated Zaporizhzhia Oblast into its territory. El819 ( talk) 15:08, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
Can someone change information about territorial (administrative and municipal) divisions of Russian-occupied Zaporizhzhia Oblast? https://zapgov.ru/%d0%b2%d1%80%d0%b8%d0%be-%d0%b3%d1%83%d0%b1%d0%b5%d1%80%d0%bd%d0%b0%d1%82%d0%be%d1%80%d0%b0-%d0%b4%d0%be%d0%ba%d1%83%d0%bc%d0%b5%d0%bd%d1%82%d1%8b/ Lukdmi ( talk) 12:13, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
Hello, I believe updates are needed to this page.
First of all, a new administrative division has been approved like in Kherson region. Here is the decree: https://zapgov.ru/врио-губернатора-документы/указ-врио-21-у-от-03-03-2023/. There are maps there that can be used here. The part about administrative divisions should this be changed.
Secondly a new flag and coat of arms have been adopted with slight modifications. Here is the decree: https://zapgov.ru/врио-губернатора-документы/распоряжение-об-утверждении-герба-и-ф-2/. It would be good if someone would make new SVG versions based on it.
In other things I think the pages a standard should be adopted for the pages concerning the Russian occupation administrations. This page should be made similar to the one about Kherson region, so among others a table for districts and a table for the government composition etc.
I would also propose adding the map of Russia with Zaporozhye highlighted to the infobox below or above the territorial control map or next to the annexation section, as well as a section detailing the flag and coat of arms.
Also in the infobox like in the Kherson article the names of the region in in both Russian and Ukrainian with transliteration should be added. Also the name itself should be cleared up as the Zaporozhye region exists as a federal subject of Russia, but the Zaporozhye Military-Civilian Administration has not been dissolved and still exists as the official name for it's government. CactusCartocratus ( talk) 02:56, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
The redirect
Zaporozhye Oblast has been listed at
redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the
redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at
Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 March 25 § Zaporozhye Oblast until a consensus is reached.
HappyWith (
talk) 12:31, 25 March 2024 (UTC)