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We have a discussion about this Talk:United States involvement in regime change. This might affect this article. A lot of content here might get deleted.-- SharʿabSalam▼ ( talk) 15:14, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
Why is most of the article talking about the Soviet Union? Russia, or the Russian Federation, and the Soviet Union, are two different entities and this is reflected on Wikipedia. It would make more sense to have a separate article called "Soviet involvement in regime change." Though this article would then become pretty much useless, a lot of what has been included is questionable. Election interference is distinct to regime change. I've seen a small amount of discussion on this topic but it doesn't seem to have gone anywhere. The regime change article states that "the term regime change is sometimes erroneously used to describe a change in the government of the day" so I don't see how these would fall under regime change. Instead, I think it would make sense for them to stay in the foreign electoral intervention article. I also don't see how helping to keep regimes in power, such as in Syria and Venezuela, also falls under regime change, since they're not trying to change a regime... Mellk ( talk) 06:56, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
I am inclined to remove examples of election interference and meddling (where the regime did not change) because this article is about regime change. Those examples can instead stay at other relevant articles. Simply helping one party or candidate win an election by interfering is not an example of regime change. Helping Trump win the election is not an example of regime change; the regime did not change.
I am also inclined to create a new article for the Soviet Union and move all Soviet examples to that article. Russia and the Soviet Union are not synonymous.
Any opposition? Mellk ( talk) 08:12, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
I don't think this split was warranted. Russia's history includes its Soviet era. If length is an issue, then cut the it down in summary style but bifurcating the histories as if they're disconnected does not seem reasonable. I would be curious what sources cover Soviet regime change as a distinct concept from post-Cold War Russian regime change. czar 19:05, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
Because this article focused on US-backed cases, the question naturally arises of whether we can apply its insights beyond the United States. Nothing in this article’s arguments regarding the strategic objectives and logic of regime change nor the decision-making framework for covert and overt conduct is limited to the United States, so future research can access its generalizability as additional covert cases are uncovered. Although obtaining reliable data on foreign covert actions is difficult, where limited information is currently available, I have found this data to be consistent.
For instance, Rory Cormac’s detailed analysis of British covert interventions since World War II shows British leaders launched numerous covert regime changes in pursuit of similar security-oriented objectives as the United States. During the Cold War, in fact, Cormac shows that the United Kingdom frequently intervened alongside the United States during many of the covert interventions discussed here. Soviet-backed regime changes during the Cold War, by contrast, mirrored their American counterparts in terms of objectives and conduct: Moscow conducted offensive operations to divide the American alliance system and help communist parties win elections in Italy and France; preventive operations into multiple civil wars— including in Angola, Congo, Ethiopia, and Mozambique—to prevent those countries from joining the Western camp; and hegemonic operations to carve out a sphere of influence in Eastern Europe. Despite overt interventions in Hungary (1956), Czechoslovakia (1968), and Afghanistan (1979), the Soviet Union also demonstrated a similar strong preference for covert action to minimize the chances of military conformation. Since the Cold War, Russia has been accused of using covert action to help pro-Russian leaders assume power in Eastern Europe as part of its bid reestablish a sphere of influence in the region. US intelligence agencies have also accused Russia of covertly meddling in democratic elections in the United States and Western Europe to support candidates sympathetic to Russia’s strategic objectives and to “undermine the credibility of the US-led liberal democratic order.”
Given the centrality of covert regime change in current foreign policy debates, it is important for scholars to understand when and why states will pursue these interventions. Nevertheless, existing scholarship on regime change has focused very heavily on overt cases. To redress that problem, this article has introduced a new theory regarding the strategic objectives of America’s Cold War regime changes and a framework to explain policymakers’ reasoning to intervene covertly versus overtly.
No one has argued this. czar 06:24, 30 January 2021 (UTC)Modern day Russia is not the same state/country as Soviet Union.
Is Russia annexing Crimea really regime change? I don't think it falls under the definition of regime change and none of the sources cited use that term. PailSimon ( talk) 10:58, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
The Intercept has just published an article which lists the numerous United States training programmes that Paul-Henri Sandaogo Damiba has attended. The article does not mention that he has any connection with Russia. [1] Burrobert ( talk) 06:22, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
References
The description of the Caucasus War is implying, that Russia started the war, which is false, Georgia did. That should be corrected. 91.55.243.68 ( talk) 20:45, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Russian involvement in regime change article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to Eastern Europe or the Balkans, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
We have a discussion about this Talk:United States involvement in regime change. This might affect this article. A lot of content here might get deleted.-- SharʿabSalam▼ ( talk) 15:14, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
Why is most of the article talking about the Soviet Union? Russia, or the Russian Federation, and the Soviet Union, are two different entities and this is reflected on Wikipedia. It would make more sense to have a separate article called "Soviet involvement in regime change." Though this article would then become pretty much useless, a lot of what has been included is questionable. Election interference is distinct to regime change. I've seen a small amount of discussion on this topic but it doesn't seem to have gone anywhere. The regime change article states that "the term regime change is sometimes erroneously used to describe a change in the government of the day" so I don't see how these would fall under regime change. Instead, I think it would make sense for them to stay in the foreign electoral intervention article. I also don't see how helping to keep regimes in power, such as in Syria and Venezuela, also falls under regime change, since they're not trying to change a regime... Mellk ( talk) 06:56, 11 April 2020 (UTC)
I am inclined to remove examples of election interference and meddling (where the regime did not change) because this article is about regime change. Those examples can instead stay at other relevant articles. Simply helping one party or candidate win an election by interfering is not an example of regime change. Helping Trump win the election is not an example of regime change; the regime did not change.
I am also inclined to create a new article for the Soviet Union and move all Soviet examples to that article. Russia and the Soviet Union are not synonymous.
Any opposition? Mellk ( talk) 08:12, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
I don't think this split was warranted. Russia's history includes its Soviet era. If length is an issue, then cut the it down in summary style but bifurcating the histories as if they're disconnected does not seem reasonable. I would be curious what sources cover Soviet regime change as a distinct concept from post-Cold War Russian regime change. czar 19:05, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
Because this article focused on US-backed cases, the question naturally arises of whether we can apply its insights beyond the United States. Nothing in this article’s arguments regarding the strategic objectives and logic of regime change nor the decision-making framework for covert and overt conduct is limited to the United States, so future research can access its generalizability as additional covert cases are uncovered. Although obtaining reliable data on foreign covert actions is difficult, where limited information is currently available, I have found this data to be consistent.
For instance, Rory Cormac’s detailed analysis of British covert interventions since World War II shows British leaders launched numerous covert regime changes in pursuit of similar security-oriented objectives as the United States. During the Cold War, in fact, Cormac shows that the United Kingdom frequently intervened alongside the United States during many of the covert interventions discussed here. Soviet-backed regime changes during the Cold War, by contrast, mirrored their American counterparts in terms of objectives and conduct: Moscow conducted offensive operations to divide the American alliance system and help communist parties win elections in Italy and France; preventive operations into multiple civil wars— including in Angola, Congo, Ethiopia, and Mozambique—to prevent those countries from joining the Western camp; and hegemonic operations to carve out a sphere of influence in Eastern Europe. Despite overt interventions in Hungary (1956), Czechoslovakia (1968), and Afghanistan (1979), the Soviet Union also demonstrated a similar strong preference for covert action to minimize the chances of military conformation. Since the Cold War, Russia has been accused of using covert action to help pro-Russian leaders assume power in Eastern Europe as part of its bid reestablish a sphere of influence in the region. US intelligence agencies have also accused Russia of covertly meddling in democratic elections in the United States and Western Europe to support candidates sympathetic to Russia’s strategic objectives and to “undermine the credibility of the US-led liberal democratic order.”
Given the centrality of covert regime change in current foreign policy debates, it is important for scholars to understand when and why states will pursue these interventions. Nevertheless, existing scholarship on regime change has focused very heavily on overt cases. To redress that problem, this article has introduced a new theory regarding the strategic objectives of America’s Cold War regime changes and a framework to explain policymakers’ reasoning to intervene covertly versus overtly.
No one has argued this. czar 06:24, 30 January 2021 (UTC)Modern day Russia is not the same state/country as Soviet Union.
Is Russia annexing Crimea really regime change? I don't think it falls under the definition of regime change and none of the sources cited use that term. PailSimon ( talk) 10:58, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
The Intercept has just published an article which lists the numerous United States training programmes that Paul-Henri Sandaogo Damiba has attended. The article does not mention that he has any connection with Russia. [1] Burrobert ( talk) 06:22, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
References
The description of the Caucasus War is implying, that Russia started the war, which is false, Georgia did. That should be corrected. 91.55.243.68 ( talk) 20:45, 4 July 2022 (UTC)