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There is conflicting info in the Early Life section. It says he earned his black belt at 16 in the first paragraph, but 18 in the second. Can we figure out which is correct and correct the inaccurate one? (BTW I'm not really sure how to format these talk pages and whatnot, apologies if I'm doing it wrong) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Esoteridactyl ( talk • contribs) 09:49, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
Does anyone have a picture of him that shows off his whole body? Since he is known for his fighting, its probably best if we use a picture that shows off what he looked like in the UFC instead of just his head. DurotarLord 02:45, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
The original rules stated that there would be a 30 minute time limit with no overtime. It was decided after it appeared that there would not be a winner that the fighters would then be restood on the feet and have a 5 minute overtime round in hopes of having a winner. THE COMMENTATORS MADE MENTION OF THIS DURING THE FIGHT. Jim Brown, for example, said it was a good idea to have the change in the rules because he felt the fans were getting restless. This was very controversial because it was to Ken's advantage and Royce was very upset about it afterwards, and said so in numerous interviews. This was one of the reasons that Royce "bowed out" from the later UFC's because of this new rule of the referee being able to split up the fighters was being enforced, which he did not agree with. This needs to be added to the article.
Removed: "He got beat down by matt hughes at ufc 62 and lost by knockout."
The grammatical phrasing doesn't co-incide with the general phrasing about Royce Gracie. I have removed it, if there is evidence of Gracie losing then it needs to be supplied and correct english maintained. -- Darktrial 23:03, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
In round one Hughes took Gracie down and applied an armbar to Gracie; however Gracie did not submit. Hughes released the armbar, put Gracie on his stomach, straddled his back and began to deliver uncontested punches and elbows to Gracie's head. After the 17 successive strike to the head, referee "Big John" McCarthy stopped the match at 4:39 because Gracie was not adequately defending himself. In a later interview, Hughes claimed that he purposely let Gracie out of the arm lock because he knew that Royce Gracie would not submit and would rather allow his arm to break.
After the fight, Gracie announced that he would return to fight again "I've got a couple more in me. Let me go home and heal this up. I'll be back. I'll be back." Although emotionally calm and smiling after the fight, he was visibly upset and disappointed in a later locker room shot after the fight [4]. This match was notably Royce's first and only match with Zuffa, LLC.
"Hughes has stated in past interviews, that he could not get enough leverage on Gracie's arm to break it" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.191.148.3 ( talk) 18:00, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
bobby ologun------
he won a fight against boby ologun that should be reflected in his fight record. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.111.80.15 ( talk) 07:22, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidehiko_Yoshida has hidehiko beating royce once and drawing royce once
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royce_Gracie has drawing, but not the loss
I am not sure which one is the correct record, but I wanted to bring this to your attention anyway.
--!phil
This and other articles on Gracies and Gracie Jiu Jitsu are extremely POV and full of loaded language. I am placing an NPOV tag on this and other articles until edits can be made. -- Malathion 01:26, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
Until you have proof of POV and loaded language, I am removing the tag. -- Aika 21:05, May 23, 2005 (UTC)
Didn't notice this before Malathion, and I agree, this has very bad instances of POV, returning the tag. -- KingMob 18:40, Aug 14, 2005 (UTC)
Personally I don't see any POV problems here. I don't know if these fellows are familliar with the history of the UFC or not, but the Gracies really are the main source of the grappling we've come to expect from the sport today. I definetly wouldn't call this article biased, if you've watched the first few UFC tournaments you can see how no one really expected the style which Royce came at them with. Most of the fighters were purely stand up martial artists, at least until Royce cleaned up the competition and came away with the first two true mixed martial arts titles, placing his style at the pinnacle of the sport. The Gracie style of fighting revolutionized the sport, and definetly deserves regonition for its great contributions.
I´ve removed the POV tag as I´ve previously stated I would do a few days ago. Me and a few other wikipedians take the time to search for POV content (read: Gracie HYPE) on the article and removed it when applicable. Hope the article is better than ever now. Loudenvier 02:14, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
"Keep in mind Gracie was 39 years old and recovering from surgery. Had they fought earlier in there careers Gracie would have dominated."
Well, there's a grammar error there, but beyond that this seems to be less than non-biased. I say it should be striken. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Thewikibert (
talk •
contribs)
13:52, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
a recent edit to this article added links for many of royce's opponets who do not have articles on them. question: is it reasonable to expect that some of these more obscure fighters will ever have an article written about them? even a stub? for example, i remember watching UFC I on pay-per-view when the event first started more than 10 years ago; i had never heard of art jimmerson then or since. and the only references to him you can find online are to his one fight with royce. so, what i am presenting here is a wikipedia style/philosophy question. i know that sometimes links like these are added to encourage someone to write an article, to fill in the holes, but in cases where it is highly unlikely, does it make sense to leave the article like that? i think some of those links should be removed but i am looking for opinions from others. uri budnik 17:34, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
I am planning on writing about the fighters that I can find enough information on, and the rest of somewhat notable stature will be left in 'red' to be written about.. but guys like Art Jimmerson, yeah, might as well remove that one. -- Aika 19:46, May 12, 2005 (UTC)
i think you should include as much info as possible. Art Jimmerson would probably agree.
The guy tapped out on a MOUNT, wore ONE boxing glove into the ring, looked like a hermit crab on crack, and was never heard from since. ;) -- Aika 14:50, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
No, remove the links to non-notable opponents. Unless, of course there is some sort of comedic reason, such as a man wearing only one boxing glove and tapping out on a mount.
After reading this article, I'm wondering, where is the perceived POV?
I think it would have been more helpful to cite some examples of the POV, rather than simply saying "there's POV" and putting up a tag. Maybe someone who claims POV can give some examples?
Or, better yet, modify the article itself?
Personally, I'm inclined to remove the tag at some point. Leaving it up indefinitely, without changing the article, is kind of sloppy (in my humble opinion). Ex0pos 00:48, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Okay, let me start: 'originator of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu' is a controversial statement to say the least, when everyone but Helio's side of the family all agree that Carlos was the one who founded BJJ. That's just the start. Any sort of flatly loaded statements about being an underdog or such subjective statements need to be tempered with qualifiers. The article's quality has improved since the tag was first put up, but it needs a lot more improvement until it's fit to not be disputed. Therefore I'm putting the tag back up. KingMob 16:09, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
My opinion is that both arts are only taken apart because of the trainning regime. Judo 80% stand-up (tachi-waza) 20% ground work (ne-waza), BJJ 99% ne-waza, 1% tachi-waza (I´m not kidding about this). I´ve got some books of Judo that show so many sweeps from the guard, half-guard and open-guard that I can´t really think/accept that BJJ is anything different from Judo. By going practically newaza-only, it is a natural course that BJJers came up with lot´s of trick unknown in Judo to help them pass guards, subtim people, etc. But the main body of techniques are all the same. Don´t you agree? Loudenvier 05:18, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Lou, I see what you are mean, but as you said, there is a huge difference in focus (ground vs. stand-up), and a resulting difference in developing 'tricks' specific to that focus. The end result being, there is a difference. -- CasualFighter 21:17, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
The article reads this: Others countered that Royler suffered a broken arm and several torn muscles stemming from the submission, validating the Sakuraba victory. People that tell this do not saw the fight and do not know Royler. If Royler arm was broken he could not move/use it as he did just after Sakuraba released the lock. And also it must be acknowledge that Royler is the most flexible of the Gracies. He is really very very flexible. It seems almost impossible to submit him with Kimura (Ude garami) as Sakuraba did. He is able to grab his left ear with his right hand passing it BEHIND his back (in a way like the Kimura lock). In other words it is almost impossible to bring his arm on his back (as in Ude Garami) far enough to stemm his muscles or broke his arm, and even more difficult if it is done by the angle that Sakuraba was doing it. I think we should at least say that there were no evidence for these people claims that Royler had his arm broken on the article text. Loudenvier 16:57, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
I just saw the fight on DVD and at the end when the kimura is being put on Royler he looks to be in definite agony. He looks like hes either screaming or yelling as Saka continues to twist his arm. He doesn't try anything to escape from it and just lies there in pain as his arm is being twisted further until the ref stops the fight. I highly doubt he was flexible enough to withstand the submission considering the pain he appeared to be in. In addition, after he got up, his arm is in a kinda of in an awkward position and as he protests, he continues to favor the arm. From the looks of it, I would say his arm was injured, not sure if he tore muscles or broke it or both, but he definitely seemed injured.
I saw the fight and it is clear to me that arm wasn't broken or heavily injured. Probably it suffered small injuries due to extension. It is also clear to me that Sakuraba could break Royler's arm from that position without much difficulty. 89.218.91.69 ( talk) 03:30, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
I´ve seen a fight in K-1 between Royce Gracie and Genki Sudo that the article dont even mention. Actually , it was a loss for Gracie by TKO . He was beaten in the ground by punches. More missing data is also possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.150.135.149 ( talk • contribs)
Okay, I figure it's time to start the discussion about Royce x Yoshida I. There is simply a lot of misinformation about the nature of this match. According to many who saw the fight after the fact, this match was simply a grappling match. Simply watching the fight reveals that it was an MMA match, It was not a grappling match. Grappling matches by their very definition do not include striking, and that match allowed striking during standup, with no punches to the head allowed and no striking on the ground. These rules are not too far from the rules which Pancrase held legit MMA matches for years, or the rules Rings KOK or ZST operated under. Despite the controversy of the match, it was a MMA match in which Royce lost by TKO/Ref stoppage. The excuse of mma sites not including it in their records, or Pride and UFC not including it in their records are far from completely unbiased sources, for the UFC has Royce's record at 13-2-2, when Royce has 3 draws (Shamrock, Yoshida, Tokoro). Pride has him at 12-2-2, which is similarly inaccurate. Also fight lists such as Sherdog have a lot of matches they don't cover, and since they list Pancrase matches (Original rules) there is no reason not to list that one. KingMob 00:46, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
i think there is some sorta Propaganda going on or some sorta evil Scheme by the crazy UFC and Gracie fans here in wikipedia, who are trying to make royce look too good, and are trying to slightly remove some of his negatives!!! --
Too Cool
03:10, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
In the Gracie Challenge section, there's a direct quote from Gracie that the kickboxer in question was "Bully the Judd". I just realized he meant Benny "The Jet" Urquidez and it seems the interviewer mistook it because of Gracie's accent. According to Clyde Gentry, it was the proposed challenge match with Urquidez that the 100,000 Gracie Challenge myth got started. I'll put up a cite next time I get a hold of the book. hateless 18:08, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
its tagged this up top of the article. But I don't see any citation needed links by any of the statements? Can the tag at the top be removed if the person who put it there can't show which statments need citation? Its like saying "fix it, but I won't tell you what's broke if anything".-- Xiahou 01:07, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
It's hard to find references or sources for MMA guys. 24.5.132.192 04:52, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Royce's corner threw in the towel; Sherdog has it as a loss. I'll change it to loss. Thedoorhinge 01:45, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
It counts as a loss, Fujita's corner did the same thing in Pride against Mark Coleman and it was a loss on his record. No question about it. Colemangracie 23:31, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Update I edited the article hereto remove the Howard fight completely. With any article on a living person we have to make sure that our prose and our stats closely match what the reliable sources say about the person. Sherdog is certainly a reliable source for MMA statistics. They don't list is as a loss or even a fight for Royce [3], and they don't list it at all much less a win for Howard [4] so I have treated it in this article as the reliable sources treat it. This is likely to be debated. Comments?-- Adam in MO Talk 19:58, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
References
The win allowed Howard to advance to the final of the UFC 3 tournament. I should also mention that up until the end of 2010, Sherdog did also list the Howard fight as a loss on Royce's record. [1]
References
I don't know why they stopped listing it, the fight results were never even challenged, much less overturned. I think it should be listed in Royce's fight record. -- FrancisC ( talk) 11:55, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
Hi all, it might be worth adding this about Royce and Rorion
"Modern Army Combatives began in the mid-1990s when the elite battalions of the 75th Ranger Regiment, specifically the 2nd Ranger Battalion, hired Gracie family instructors Royce and Rorion to instruct troops in Brazilian jiu-jitsu.
The Rangers absorbed the teachings and became fanatic in their ground fighting, holding Battalion tournaments in which the victors were sent to study at the Gracie Academy in Torrance. The Rangers then began to modify the jiu-jitsu techniques for combat use."
http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles.asp?n_id=3595
I'm fairly sure (but not positive) that Royce lived in Alaska during part of that time period.
LetterRip 16:12, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
The "Notes" in the record section inaccurately stated that Royce had been "exhausted during the previous match" and therefore threw in the towel. This was in UFC 3 and his corner did throw in the towel, and it counted as a loss, but it was because of an injury acquired in a previous match. "Exhausted" and "injured" are very different things. Corrected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Philosopher2king ( talk • contribs) 22:27, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)
DumZiBoT ( talk) 21:27, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
I would like to add a sourced quote that Royce made about steriods before he was found to havce used them. I removed the unsourced portion of my edit. Closetindex ( talk) 01:25, 22 March 2009 (UTC)closetindex
I removed ESPN quote since it is full of ignorance. Firstly, bout with Matt Hughes was a catchweight fight, for which Royce needed to lose weight. Secondly in the bout with Hideo Tokoro Royce was 190 lb (according to http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VRwpWP95Pho&t=153), thirdly every top fighter is a bodybuilder in some way and they know how to gain or lose weight (you know they are capable of jumping between weight classes) and gaining less than 5% of mass (assuming natural weight is 180 lb) over 10 months is easy for Royce, he is not 'big' for his height at all so he is far from his weight limits, fourthly age of 40 isnt an problem for a bodybuilder at all ( http://www.ironmanmagazine.com/index.cfm?page=article&go2=677) 89.218.91.69 ( talk) 05:01, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
While the text of the section "The Gracie Challenge" seems neutral, I do not see a reference. Closetindex ( talk) 01:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)closetindex
Is there a reason why none of his BJJ tournament history is noted? Is it simply a lack of sourcing or what? As far as I know Royce had a long string of undefeated victories in BJJ until his loss to Wallid Ismail, which was huge news at the time in MA circles, but there's no mention of it here. Livingston 17:25, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
He says in this interview that he has a black belt in karate as well. I'm not sure if this website is reliable. Anyone else ever hear about Royce having a black belt in karate? Skeeter08865 ( talk) 01:35, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm confused as to the right-side summary box that says he died of a Brain Tumor; however, it does not list a date, nor does the article represent him in the past-tense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.98.222.16 ( talk) 14:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Royce is not officially retired and he manifested wish to fight again in the UFC ( superfight ) perhaps a rematch with Matt Hughes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.73.65.177 ( talk) 18:42, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
Also could not find the Sherdog in formation , seems highly speculative . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.73.65.177 ( talk) 18:46, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
Got this source in English that might help at http: //bleacherreport.com/articles/545206-royce-gracie-to-compete-at-ufc-brazil-additional-information-on-brazil-event
Or not even mentioned at all? Throwing in the towel is not a loss in combat sports? Can anyone find a legit source for that concept? Or for the idea that the entire fight should be ignored? Don't argue with me, just tell me if you can find a source or not. Thedoorhinge ( talk) 08:16, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
I agree with Thedoorhinge. CrazyAces489 ( talk) 00:15, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
Research the rift between Jim Hughes (West Hartford,CT) and his instructors. It involves eyewitness accounts of Extra Marital Affairs that Royce Gracie & Jim Hughes had after matches in CT. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.227.176.147 ( talk) 01:00, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
I notice that fight still magically does not exist on wikipedia's Royce Gracie page. Royce did what Roberto Duran did- literally or metaphorically threw in the towel. Duran's page does not hide from that fact; Gracie's consistently does. Thedoorhinge ( talk) 13:44, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
UFC tv shows the fight, MMA fighting says that Royce withdrew from fight. MMA encyclopedia says that Royce withdrew. When you throw in the towel you lose. These are ALL primary resources. Bleacher report states that he pulls out. A loss is a loss.
The argument of take it up with the UFC isn't a valid one since the UFC was at one point OWNED by Royce's brother
Rorion Gracie. If you want to withdraw the comment please initiate an RFC (request for comment).
| [1]
References
References
CrazyAces489 ( talk) 14:45, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
Apparently, I and many others have argued with you in the past. I put the Yoshida fight in a separate section under limited rules and you just removed it. I put in the BJJ fight in its own section and you removed it. Lets just open up an RFC. Your deletions are problmeatic. CrazyAces489 ( talk) 03:32, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
References
A submission (depending on the context also referred to as a "tap out" or "tapping out") is a combat sports term for yielding to the opponent, and hence resulting in an immediate defeat. The submission is commonly performed by clearly tapping the floor or the opponent with the hand or sometimes with the foot, to signal the opponent and possibly the referee of the submission. The submission can also be verbal, during which the fighter verbally informs that he is giving up. In some combative sports where the fighter has cornermen, the corner can also stop the fight by "throwing in the towel".
Thedoorhinge ( talk) 09:06, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
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Royce Gracie holds the rank of 6th degree black belt in Gracie/Brazilian jiu-jitsu as confirmed by the Gracie Academy's affiliate website Gracie University, not 7th degree red and black belt. Gracie received his current rank from his late father Helio Gracie, and has stated that he will never accept another rank promotion from anyone else.
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Callanecc (
talk •
contribs •
logs)Should be included. The first two were referenced. Please add more CrazyAces489 ( talk) 11:13, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Because you are trying to present this information in the format of a BJJ record, you need more than this. There is nothing stopping you from adding information on these matches as text in the article, but framing two matches as his entire record is a misrepresentation, unless you can show a reliable source (comparable to something like this [8] but for BJJ ) which states that these are his only two career matches. -- SubSeven ( talk) 18:41, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Since you feel I have an agenda, what might you propose that agenda is? I create a lot of articles and have many edits! CrazyAces489 ( talk) 21:16, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Considering that I created articles on Soshihiro Satake, Geo Omori, Luiz França, and am creating an article on Jorge Gracie. These men were all large founders of BJJ. Something that no one else has done in the years of wikipedia. I have done a lot of research in their development. So do you think I have some sort of vendetta against BJJ? CrazyAces489 ( talk) 00:34, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
To be honest, I am not going to explain myself to you. I have shown that I am working to improve wikipedia. Your personal attacks aren't necessary and you feeling and openly stating that I am not acting in good faith. So with that being stated, I placed in objective data and sourced data on the BJJ record of Royce Gracie. If you want to put in more matches you can! If you would like to protest sourced data, you can open up an RFC. CrazyAces489 ( talk) 04:46, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
Carlson Gracie stated that "Here in Brazil, I've never seen Royce win ONE championship. He lost to everyone. He lost to De La Riva, who was so much smaller than him. He tapped out to Paschoal. He's a good fighter, but never won anything here. He's not this "phenomenon" that they talk about." [1]
CrazyAces489 ( talk) 05:49, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
2) The couple of losses which are against notable grapplers. 3) He never did win a BJJ championship. There is no record of him ever winning a BJJ match. I believe that Carlson Gracie is a reliable source. He was a Vale Tudo fighter, an instructor, and personally knows Royce Gracie. CrazyAces489 ( talk) 06:12, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
Really, what was this? [10] CrazyAces489 ( talk) 20:00, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
I removed some content that was unsourced since 2009, deleted some PV, and removed some other content that was unsourced and a BLP violation. The article requires improved referencing with large sections having no source. The article reads like a fan site in some sections and the unreferenced descriptions of fights in particular need work or trimming back. Flat Out ( talk) 04:18, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
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I wish to fix bare refs with a tool.-- Catlemur ( talk) 11:02, 12 July 2015 (UTC) Catlemur ( talk) 11:02, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
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Dear Wikipedians
I have been editing the article adding more information and making it more complete. I have been talking with @ NEDOCHAN: which helped me correct any grammar mistakes I've added and correct into Wiki, unfortunately, he removed a lot of important context to the page. For example, "The Gracie brothers continued the family's tradition of the " Gracie Challenge", in which they challenged other martial artists to a no-holds-barred Vale Tudo match in their gym in order to prove the superiority of Gracie jiu-jitsu. The Gracie in Action tapes inspired Art Davie to create the UFC." losing an entire context about the tapes. Or adding downright inncurate information, such as claiming the Takada vs Gracie bout happened at the Pride FC: Grand Prix 2000 - Finals in May 1, 2000 and not at the Pride FC: Grand Prix 2000 - Opening Round at January 30, 2000. Which can be checked by all this fighting data bases ( [1] [2] [3] [4]). I still believe some of his changes were necessary and made the whole article better, but I also think he removed some of the information that had no reason to be removed. LordLoko ( talk) 18:01, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
References
I was the person who originally added this point. A source for the victory is available on Sig Sauers official YouTube channel video titled Hunter Games 2022 at 6:00. I’m still new to editing Wikipedia so I don’t know how to add citations. 2603:800C:353C:F800:9D83:8573:86B9:4A9C ( talk) 06:05, 25 July 2023 (UTC)
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There is conflicting info in the Early Life section. It says he earned his black belt at 16 in the first paragraph, but 18 in the second. Can we figure out which is correct and correct the inaccurate one? (BTW I'm not really sure how to format these talk pages and whatnot, apologies if I'm doing it wrong) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Esoteridactyl ( talk • contribs) 09:49, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
Does anyone have a picture of him that shows off his whole body? Since he is known for his fighting, its probably best if we use a picture that shows off what he looked like in the UFC instead of just his head. DurotarLord 02:45, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
The original rules stated that there would be a 30 minute time limit with no overtime. It was decided after it appeared that there would not be a winner that the fighters would then be restood on the feet and have a 5 minute overtime round in hopes of having a winner. THE COMMENTATORS MADE MENTION OF THIS DURING THE FIGHT. Jim Brown, for example, said it was a good idea to have the change in the rules because he felt the fans were getting restless. This was very controversial because it was to Ken's advantage and Royce was very upset about it afterwards, and said so in numerous interviews. This was one of the reasons that Royce "bowed out" from the later UFC's because of this new rule of the referee being able to split up the fighters was being enforced, which he did not agree with. This needs to be added to the article.
Removed: "He got beat down by matt hughes at ufc 62 and lost by knockout."
The grammatical phrasing doesn't co-incide with the general phrasing about Royce Gracie. I have removed it, if there is evidence of Gracie losing then it needs to be supplied and correct english maintained. -- Darktrial 23:03, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
In round one Hughes took Gracie down and applied an armbar to Gracie; however Gracie did not submit. Hughes released the armbar, put Gracie on his stomach, straddled his back and began to deliver uncontested punches and elbows to Gracie's head. After the 17 successive strike to the head, referee "Big John" McCarthy stopped the match at 4:39 because Gracie was not adequately defending himself. In a later interview, Hughes claimed that he purposely let Gracie out of the arm lock because he knew that Royce Gracie would not submit and would rather allow his arm to break.
After the fight, Gracie announced that he would return to fight again "I've got a couple more in me. Let me go home and heal this up. I'll be back. I'll be back." Although emotionally calm and smiling after the fight, he was visibly upset and disappointed in a later locker room shot after the fight [4]. This match was notably Royce's first and only match with Zuffa, LLC.
"Hughes has stated in past interviews, that he could not get enough leverage on Gracie's arm to break it" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.191.148.3 ( talk) 18:00, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
bobby ologun------
he won a fight against boby ologun that should be reflected in his fight record. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.111.80.15 ( talk) 07:22, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidehiko_Yoshida has hidehiko beating royce once and drawing royce once
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royce_Gracie has drawing, but not the loss
I am not sure which one is the correct record, but I wanted to bring this to your attention anyway.
--!phil
This and other articles on Gracies and Gracie Jiu Jitsu are extremely POV and full of loaded language. I am placing an NPOV tag on this and other articles until edits can be made. -- Malathion 01:26, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
Until you have proof of POV and loaded language, I am removing the tag. -- Aika 21:05, May 23, 2005 (UTC)
Didn't notice this before Malathion, and I agree, this has very bad instances of POV, returning the tag. -- KingMob 18:40, Aug 14, 2005 (UTC)
Personally I don't see any POV problems here. I don't know if these fellows are familliar with the history of the UFC or not, but the Gracies really are the main source of the grappling we've come to expect from the sport today. I definetly wouldn't call this article biased, if you've watched the first few UFC tournaments you can see how no one really expected the style which Royce came at them with. Most of the fighters were purely stand up martial artists, at least until Royce cleaned up the competition and came away with the first two true mixed martial arts titles, placing his style at the pinnacle of the sport. The Gracie style of fighting revolutionized the sport, and definetly deserves regonition for its great contributions.
I´ve removed the POV tag as I´ve previously stated I would do a few days ago. Me and a few other wikipedians take the time to search for POV content (read: Gracie HYPE) on the article and removed it when applicable. Hope the article is better than ever now. Loudenvier 02:14, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
"Keep in mind Gracie was 39 years old and recovering from surgery. Had they fought earlier in there careers Gracie would have dominated."
Well, there's a grammar error there, but beyond that this seems to be less than non-biased. I say it should be striken. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Thewikibert (
talk •
contribs)
13:52, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
a recent edit to this article added links for many of royce's opponets who do not have articles on them. question: is it reasonable to expect that some of these more obscure fighters will ever have an article written about them? even a stub? for example, i remember watching UFC I on pay-per-view when the event first started more than 10 years ago; i had never heard of art jimmerson then or since. and the only references to him you can find online are to his one fight with royce. so, what i am presenting here is a wikipedia style/philosophy question. i know that sometimes links like these are added to encourage someone to write an article, to fill in the holes, but in cases where it is highly unlikely, does it make sense to leave the article like that? i think some of those links should be removed but i am looking for opinions from others. uri budnik 17:34, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
I am planning on writing about the fighters that I can find enough information on, and the rest of somewhat notable stature will be left in 'red' to be written about.. but guys like Art Jimmerson, yeah, might as well remove that one. -- Aika 19:46, May 12, 2005 (UTC)
i think you should include as much info as possible. Art Jimmerson would probably agree.
The guy tapped out on a MOUNT, wore ONE boxing glove into the ring, looked like a hermit crab on crack, and was never heard from since. ;) -- Aika 14:50, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
No, remove the links to non-notable opponents. Unless, of course there is some sort of comedic reason, such as a man wearing only one boxing glove and tapping out on a mount.
After reading this article, I'm wondering, where is the perceived POV?
I think it would have been more helpful to cite some examples of the POV, rather than simply saying "there's POV" and putting up a tag. Maybe someone who claims POV can give some examples?
Or, better yet, modify the article itself?
Personally, I'm inclined to remove the tag at some point. Leaving it up indefinitely, without changing the article, is kind of sloppy (in my humble opinion). Ex0pos 00:48, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
Okay, let me start: 'originator of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu' is a controversial statement to say the least, when everyone but Helio's side of the family all agree that Carlos was the one who founded BJJ. That's just the start. Any sort of flatly loaded statements about being an underdog or such subjective statements need to be tempered with qualifiers. The article's quality has improved since the tag was first put up, but it needs a lot more improvement until it's fit to not be disputed. Therefore I'm putting the tag back up. KingMob 16:09, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
My opinion is that both arts are only taken apart because of the trainning regime. Judo 80% stand-up (tachi-waza) 20% ground work (ne-waza), BJJ 99% ne-waza, 1% tachi-waza (I´m not kidding about this). I´ve got some books of Judo that show so many sweeps from the guard, half-guard and open-guard that I can´t really think/accept that BJJ is anything different from Judo. By going practically newaza-only, it is a natural course that BJJers came up with lot´s of trick unknown in Judo to help them pass guards, subtim people, etc. But the main body of techniques are all the same. Don´t you agree? Loudenvier 05:18, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Lou, I see what you are mean, but as you said, there is a huge difference in focus (ground vs. stand-up), and a resulting difference in developing 'tricks' specific to that focus. The end result being, there is a difference. -- CasualFighter 21:17, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
The article reads this: Others countered that Royler suffered a broken arm and several torn muscles stemming from the submission, validating the Sakuraba victory. People that tell this do not saw the fight and do not know Royler. If Royler arm was broken he could not move/use it as he did just after Sakuraba released the lock. And also it must be acknowledge that Royler is the most flexible of the Gracies. He is really very very flexible. It seems almost impossible to submit him with Kimura (Ude garami) as Sakuraba did. He is able to grab his left ear with his right hand passing it BEHIND his back (in a way like the Kimura lock). In other words it is almost impossible to bring his arm on his back (as in Ude Garami) far enough to stemm his muscles or broke his arm, and even more difficult if it is done by the angle that Sakuraba was doing it. I think we should at least say that there were no evidence for these people claims that Royler had his arm broken on the article text. Loudenvier 16:57, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
I just saw the fight on DVD and at the end when the kimura is being put on Royler he looks to be in definite agony. He looks like hes either screaming or yelling as Saka continues to twist his arm. He doesn't try anything to escape from it and just lies there in pain as his arm is being twisted further until the ref stops the fight. I highly doubt he was flexible enough to withstand the submission considering the pain he appeared to be in. In addition, after he got up, his arm is in a kinda of in an awkward position and as he protests, he continues to favor the arm. From the looks of it, I would say his arm was injured, not sure if he tore muscles or broke it or both, but he definitely seemed injured.
I saw the fight and it is clear to me that arm wasn't broken or heavily injured. Probably it suffered small injuries due to extension. It is also clear to me that Sakuraba could break Royler's arm from that position without much difficulty. 89.218.91.69 ( talk) 03:30, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
I´ve seen a fight in K-1 between Royce Gracie and Genki Sudo that the article dont even mention. Actually , it was a loss for Gracie by TKO . He was beaten in the ground by punches. More missing data is also possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.150.135.149 ( talk • contribs)
Okay, I figure it's time to start the discussion about Royce x Yoshida I. There is simply a lot of misinformation about the nature of this match. According to many who saw the fight after the fact, this match was simply a grappling match. Simply watching the fight reveals that it was an MMA match, It was not a grappling match. Grappling matches by their very definition do not include striking, and that match allowed striking during standup, with no punches to the head allowed and no striking on the ground. These rules are not too far from the rules which Pancrase held legit MMA matches for years, or the rules Rings KOK or ZST operated under. Despite the controversy of the match, it was a MMA match in which Royce lost by TKO/Ref stoppage. The excuse of mma sites not including it in their records, or Pride and UFC not including it in their records are far from completely unbiased sources, for the UFC has Royce's record at 13-2-2, when Royce has 3 draws (Shamrock, Yoshida, Tokoro). Pride has him at 12-2-2, which is similarly inaccurate. Also fight lists such as Sherdog have a lot of matches they don't cover, and since they list Pancrase matches (Original rules) there is no reason not to list that one. KingMob 00:46, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
i think there is some sorta Propaganda going on or some sorta evil Scheme by the crazy UFC and Gracie fans here in wikipedia, who are trying to make royce look too good, and are trying to slightly remove some of his negatives!!! --
Too Cool
03:10, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
In the Gracie Challenge section, there's a direct quote from Gracie that the kickboxer in question was "Bully the Judd". I just realized he meant Benny "The Jet" Urquidez and it seems the interviewer mistook it because of Gracie's accent. According to Clyde Gentry, it was the proposed challenge match with Urquidez that the 100,000 Gracie Challenge myth got started. I'll put up a cite next time I get a hold of the book. hateless 18:08, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
its tagged this up top of the article. But I don't see any citation needed links by any of the statements? Can the tag at the top be removed if the person who put it there can't show which statments need citation? Its like saying "fix it, but I won't tell you what's broke if anything".-- Xiahou 01:07, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
It's hard to find references or sources for MMA guys. 24.5.132.192 04:52, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Royce's corner threw in the towel; Sherdog has it as a loss. I'll change it to loss. Thedoorhinge 01:45, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
It counts as a loss, Fujita's corner did the same thing in Pride against Mark Coleman and it was a loss on his record. No question about it. Colemangracie 23:31, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Update I edited the article hereto remove the Howard fight completely. With any article on a living person we have to make sure that our prose and our stats closely match what the reliable sources say about the person. Sherdog is certainly a reliable source for MMA statistics. They don't list is as a loss or even a fight for Royce [3], and they don't list it at all much less a win for Howard [4] so I have treated it in this article as the reliable sources treat it. This is likely to be debated. Comments?-- Adam in MO Talk 19:58, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
References
The win allowed Howard to advance to the final of the UFC 3 tournament. I should also mention that up until the end of 2010, Sherdog did also list the Howard fight as a loss on Royce's record. [1]
References
I don't know why they stopped listing it, the fight results were never even challenged, much less overturned. I think it should be listed in Royce's fight record. -- FrancisC ( talk) 11:55, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
Hi all, it might be worth adding this about Royce and Rorion
"Modern Army Combatives began in the mid-1990s when the elite battalions of the 75th Ranger Regiment, specifically the 2nd Ranger Battalion, hired Gracie family instructors Royce and Rorion to instruct troops in Brazilian jiu-jitsu.
The Rangers absorbed the teachings and became fanatic in their ground fighting, holding Battalion tournaments in which the victors were sent to study at the Gracie Academy in Torrance. The Rangers then began to modify the jiu-jitsu techniques for combat use."
http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles.asp?n_id=3595
I'm fairly sure (but not positive) that Royce lived in Alaska during part of that time period.
LetterRip 16:12, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
The "Notes" in the record section inaccurately stated that Royce had been "exhausted during the previous match" and therefore threw in the towel. This was in UFC 3 and his corner did throw in the towel, and it counted as a loss, but it was because of an injury acquired in a previous match. "Exhausted" and "injured" are very different things. Corrected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Philosopher2king ( talk • contribs) 22:27, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)
DumZiBoT ( talk) 21:27, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
I would like to add a sourced quote that Royce made about steriods before he was found to havce used them. I removed the unsourced portion of my edit. Closetindex ( talk) 01:25, 22 March 2009 (UTC)closetindex
I removed ESPN quote since it is full of ignorance. Firstly, bout with Matt Hughes was a catchweight fight, for which Royce needed to lose weight. Secondly in the bout with Hideo Tokoro Royce was 190 lb (according to http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VRwpWP95Pho&t=153), thirdly every top fighter is a bodybuilder in some way and they know how to gain or lose weight (you know they are capable of jumping between weight classes) and gaining less than 5% of mass (assuming natural weight is 180 lb) over 10 months is easy for Royce, he is not 'big' for his height at all so he is far from his weight limits, fourthly age of 40 isnt an problem for a bodybuilder at all ( http://www.ironmanmagazine.com/index.cfm?page=article&go2=677) 89.218.91.69 ( talk) 05:01, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
While the text of the section "The Gracie Challenge" seems neutral, I do not see a reference. Closetindex ( talk) 01:28, 22 March 2009 (UTC)closetindex
Is there a reason why none of his BJJ tournament history is noted? Is it simply a lack of sourcing or what? As far as I know Royce had a long string of undefeated victories in BJJ until his loss to Wallid Ismail, which was huge news at the time in MA circles, but there's no mention of it here. Livingston 17:25, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
He says in this interview that he has a black belt in karate as well. I'm not sure if this website is reliable. Anyone else ever hear about Royce having a black belt in karate? Skeeter08865 ( talk) 01:35, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
I'm confused as to the right-side summary box that says he died of a Brain Tumor; however, it does not list a date, nor does the article represent him in the past-tense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.98.222.16 ( talk) 14:44, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Royce is not officially retired and he manifested wish to fight again in the UFC ( superfight ) perhaps a rematch with Matt Hughes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.73.65.177 ( talk) 18:42, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
Also could not find the Sherdog in formation , seems highly speculative . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.73.65.177 ( talk) 18:46, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
Got this source in English that might help at http: //bleacherreport.com/articles/545206-royce-gracie-to-compete-at-ufc-brazil-additional-information-on-brazil-event
Or not even mentioned at all? Throwing in the towel is not a loss in combat sports? Can anyone find a legit source for that concept? Or for the idea that the entire fight should be ignored? Don't argue with me, just tell me if you can find a source or not. Thedoorhinge ( talk) 08:16, 22 February 2012 (UTC)
I agree with Thedoorhinge. CrazyAces489 ( talk) 00:15, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
Research the rift between Jim Hughes (West Hartford,CT) and his instructors. It involves eyewitness accounts of Extra Marital Affairs that Royce Gracie & Jim Hughes had after matches in CT. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.227.176.147 ( talk) 01:00, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
I notice that fight still magically does not exist on wikipedia's Royce Gracie page. Royce did what Roberto Duran did- literally or metaphorically threw in the towel. Duran's page does not hide from that fact; Gracie's consistently does. Thedoorhinge ( talk) 13:44, 21 February 2013 (UTC)
UFC tv shows the fight, MMA fighting says that Royce withdrew from fight. MMA encyclopedia says that Royce withdrew. When you throw in the towel you lose. These are ALL primary resources. Bleacher report states that he pulls out. A loss is a loss.
The argument of take it up with the UFC isn't a valid one since the UFC was at one point OWNED by Royce's brother
Rorion Gracie. If you want to withdraw the comment please initiate an RFC (request for comment).
| [1]
References
References
CrazyAces489 ( talk) 14:45, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
Apparently, I and many others have argued with you in the past. I put the Yoshida fight in a separate section under limited rules and you just removed it. I put in the BJJ fight in its own section and you removed it. Lets just open up an RFC. Your deletions are problmeatic. CrazyAces489 ( talk) 03:32, 29 October 2014 (UTC)
References
A submission (depending on the context also referred to as a "tap out" or "tapping out") is a combat sports term for yielding to the opponent, and hence resulting in an immediate defeat. The submission is commonly performed by clearly tapping the floor or the opponent with the hand or sometimes with the foot, to signal the opponent and possibly the referee of the submission. The submission can also be verbal, during which the fighter verbally informs that he is giving up. In some combative sports where the fighter has cornermen, the corner can also stop the fight by "throwing in the towel".
Thedoorhinge ( talk) 09:06, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
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Royce Gracie holds the rank of 6th degree black belt in Gracie/Brazilian jiu-jitsu as confirmed by the Gracie Academy's affiliate website Gracie University, not 7th degree red and black belt. Gracie received his current rank from his late father Helio Gracie, and has stated that he will never accept another rank promotion from anyone else.
{{
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Callanecc (
talk •
contribs •
logs)Should be included. The first two were referenced. Please add more CrazyAces489 ( talk) 11:13, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Because you are trying to present this information in the format of a BJJ record, you need more than this. There is nothing stopping you from adding information on these matches as text in the article, but framing two matches as his entire record is a misrepresentation, unless you can show a reliable source (comparable to something like this [8] but for BJJ ) which states that these are his only two career matches. -- SubSeven ( talk) 18:41, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
Since you feel I have an agenda, what might you propose that agenda is? I create a lot of articles and have many edits! CrazyAces489 ( talk) 21:16, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
Considering that I created articles on Soshihiro Satake, Geo Omori, Luiz França, and am creating an article on Jorge Gracie. These men were all large founders of BJJ. Something that no one else has done in the years of wikipedia. I have done a lot of research in their development. So do you think I have some sort of vendetta against BJJ? CrazyAces489 ( talk) 00:34, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
To be honest, I am not going to explain myself to you. I have shown that I am working to improve wikipedia. Your personal attacks aren't necessary and you feeling and openly stating that I am not acting in good faith. So with that being stated, I placed in objective data and sourced data on the BJJ record of Royce Gracie. If you want to put in more matches you can! If you would like to protest sourced data, you can open up an RFC. CrazyAces489 ( talk) 04:46, 6 December 2014 (UTC)
Carlson Gracie stated that "Here in Brazil, I've never seen Royce win ONE championship. He lost to everyone. He lost to De La Riva, who was so much smaller than him. He tapped out to Paschoal. He's a good fighter, but never won anything here. He's not this "phenomenon" that they talk about." [1]
CrazyAces489 ( talk) 05:49, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
2) The couple of losses which are against notable grapplers. 3) He never did win a BJJ championship. There is no record of him ever winning a BJJ match. I believe that Carlson Gracie is a reliable source. He was a Vale Tudo fighter, an instructor, and personally knows Royce Gracie. CrazyAces489 ( talk) 06:12, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
Really, what was this? [10] CrazyAces489 ( talk) 20:00, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
I removed some content that was unsourced since 2009, deleted some PV, and removed some other content that was unsourced and a BLP violation. The article requires improved referencing with large sections having no source. The article reads like a fan site in some sections and the unreferenced descriptions of fights in particular need work or trimming back. Flat Out ( talk) 04:18, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
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I wish to fix bare refs with a tool.-- Catlemur ( talk) 11:02, 12 July 2015 (UTC) Catlemur ( talk) 11:02, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 17:22, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
Dear Wikipedians
I have been editing the article adding more information and making it more complete. I have been talking with @ NEDOCHAN: which helped me correct any grammar mistakes I've added and correct into Wiki, unfortunately, he removed a lot of important context to the page. For example, "The Gracie brothers continued the family's tradition of the " Gracie Challenge", in which they challenged other martial artists to a no-holds-barred Vale Tudo match in their gym in order to prove the superiority of Gracie jiu-jitsu. The Gracie in Action tapes inspired Art Davie to create the UFC." losing an entire context about the tapes. Or adding downright inncurate information, such as claiming the Takada vs Gracie bout happened at the Pride FC: Grand Prix 2000 - Finals in May 1, 2000 and not at the Pride FC: Grand Prix 2000 - Opening Round at January 30, 2000. Which can be checked by all this fighting data bases ( [1] [2] [3] [4]). I still believe some of his changes were necessary and made the whole article better, but I also think he removed some of the information that had no reason to be removed. LordLoko ( talk) 18:01, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
References
I was the person who originally added this point. A source for the victory is available on Sig Sauers official YouTube channel video titled Hunter Games 2022 at 6:00. I’m still new to editing Wikipedia so I don’t know how to add citations. 2603:800C:353C:F800:9D83:8573:86B9:4A9C ( talk) 06:05, 25 July 2023 (UTC)