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I don't know if there's much point in keeping a separate article for this type of craft. Going by the descriptions in the individual articles, this appears to be a pretty standard gunboat.
Peter Isotalo 21:20, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
I've been working on the article galley for quite a while. The work right has been on hold for a while, but I have already added a lot of material and corrected plenty of misconceptions. This includes a "Definition and terminology"-section that discusses the use of the term "galley" in the sense that was used primarily by the earliest US Navy. What's clear is that these vessels aren't defined as galleys in the existing literature on the history of galleys. The term "galley" or "row galley" remains in use in histories of the US Navy itself, but it is absolutely meaningless to actually define these craft as galleys. And it also seems that the separation of the two categories Category:Galleys of the United States Navy and Category:Row galleys of the United States Navy really have no business staying separate.
I brought the issue up at the latest renaming of US Navy ship categories, for example. [1] This included an examination of how standard US Navy histories themselves as well as more general references deal with the issue. [2] Despite a very obvious lack of consistency in the usage of "galleys" and "row galleys" in the literature, and their even more obvious lack of likeness to "genuine", Mediterranean-style galleys, the "galley"-category was added to Category:Galleys by an editor who participated in the category discussion. [3] So I'm guessing a consensus discussion is in order.
How do we deal with this problem? Is the suggestion in the thread above, to simply identify these craft as a variant of gunboats, a workable solution? Are there any valid arguments for keeping "galleys" and "row galleys" separate? And how do we make sure that these US Navy gunboats aren't constantly confused with Mediterranean-style galleys?
Peter Isotalo 17:20, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
As coincidence would have it, I just happened to be reading The Jeffersonian Gunboat Navy by Spencer Tucker. During the ARW there were two terms used for these ships. One was "gondola" (apparently not to be confused with the gondolas of Venice) and the other "galley" but he makes no mention of "row galley." Tucker is basically comparing "gondola" and "galley" as ancestors of "gunboats" that appeared during Jefferson's time as president. However, I too have seen the US Navy using all three names: "gondola", "galley", and "row galley." at random. Most of these terms are found in the various articles contained within DANFS. What needs to be said though is that I've found Tucker's works to be a bit sloppy and often lacking in full explanations. He tends to gloss over descriptions that really should be explained completely for clarity. Brad ( talk) 03:48, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
So do are there any reasons not to join the "galleys" and "row galleys" of the US Navy into the same category? We can leave the detailed description of these vessels to those who wish to the homework on that, but it seems obvious that the two terms are mere synonyms.
Peter Isotalo 01:06, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I don't know if there's much point in keeping a separate article for this type of craft. Going by the descriptions in the individual articles, this appears to be a pretty standard gunboat.
Peter Isotalo 21:20, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
I've been working on the article galley for quite a while. The work right has been on hold for a while, but I have already added a lot of material and corrected plenty of misconceptions. This includes a "Definition and terminology"-section that discusses the use of the term "galley" in the sense that was used primarily by the earliest US Navy. What's clear is that these vessels aren't defined as galleys in the existing literature on the history of galleys. The term "galley" or "row galley" remains in use in histories of the US Navy itself, but it is absolutely meaningless to actually define these craft as galleys. And it also seems that the separation of the two categories Category:Galleys of the United States Navy and Category:Row galleys of the United States Navy really have no business staying separate.
I brought the issue up at the latest renaming of US Navy ship categories, for example. [1] This included an examination of how standard US Navy histories themselves as well as more general references deal with the issue. [2] Despite a very obvious lack of consistency in the usage of "galleys" and "row galleys" in the literature, and their even more obvious lack of likeness to "genuine", Mediterranean-style galleys, the "galley"-category was added to Category:Galleys by an editor who participated in the category discussion. [3] So I'm guessing a consensus discussion is in order.
How do we deal with this problem? Is the suggestion in the thread above, to simply identify these craft as a variant of gunboats, a workable solution? Are there any valid arguments for keeping "galleys" and "row galleys" separate? And how do we make sure that these US Navy gunboats aren't constantly confused with Mediterranean-style galleys?
Peter Isotalo 17:20, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
As coincidence would have it, I just happened to be reading The Jeffersonian Gunboat Navy by Spencer Tucker. During the ARW there were two terms used for these ships. One was "gondola" (apparently not to be confused with the gondolas of Venice) and the other "galley" but he makes no mention of "row galley." Tucker is basically comparing "gondola" and "galley" as ancestors of "gunboats" that appeared during Jefferson's time as president. However, I too have seen the US Navy using all three names: "gondola", "galley", and "row galley." at random. Most of these terms are found in the various articles contained within DANFS. What needs to be said though is that I've found Tucker's works to be a bit sloppy and often lacking in full explanations. He tends to gloss over descriptions that really should be explained completely for clarity. Brad ( talk) 03:48, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
So do are there any reasons not to join the "galleys" and "row galleys" of the US Navy into the same category? We can leave the detailed description of these vessels to those who wish to the homework on that, but it seems obvious that the two terms are mere synonyms.
Peter Isotalo 01:06, 5 January 2012 (UTC)