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This is a topic for Action (firearms) and should be merged into it. Digitallymade ( talk) 12:19, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
A rolling block is a generic action description, which is why the article title doesn't have it capped. And when it's used as a compound modifier, e.g before rifle or action or design, it would typically be hyphenated, to clue the user to read it as a unit (i..e. not the default non-hyphenated parse of rolling block rifle as a block rifle that is rolling). But when I made such fixes, I got reverted by an IP whose expertise is deep, I'm sure, in antique firearms, but perhaps not so deep in grammar and style. Per MOS:CAPS and MOS:HYPHEN, we should really be fixing these. Other ideas? Dicklyon ( talk) 02:41, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
Apparently Remington named this the "Remington System"; by 1956, Hatch says it "came to be known as the Remington Rolling Block Rifle", which I'd say is a historian capitalizing what's important to him (per WP:SSF), not evidence of proper name status. If there are retrospective model names (not that generic term for a bunch of models) that cap it, that's OK, but most uses, like in this article, are generic. Dicklyon ( talk) 17:18, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
On his talk page, the IP offered a bunch of URLs as evidence for why he needed to revert my fixes. So I looked at them and annotated them to make it clear that we should look to their sentence usage, which is mostly lowercase, not just their titles. These:
And there are also tons of sources that hyphenate. Just not these. Dicklyon ( talk) 21:58, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
@ Dicklyon: Thank you for inviting me. I looked through your notes and although I disagree with it, I nonetheless respect your decision as you clearly have much more knowledge of the fine, minute details of the English language along with the rules and regulations of Wikipedia. I've already gone ahead and made some of the adjustments based on your recommendations. Anything not relating to the company and model "Remington Rolling Block" has been lowercased along with a hyphen "rolling-block". Feel free to look over my work and make anymore corrections you may deem appropriate. [22] [23] [24] [25] 2600:1000:B05E:E107:F113:E420:D98:9394 ( talk) 23:07, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
@ Dicklyon: I suppose what you're saying makes sense and I went ahead and put mentions of the "Remington System" in a couple places. Feel free to edit or adjust as neccesary. [26] [27] 2600:1000:B05E:E107:A88F:220E:7155:27B ( talk) 01:35, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
Hi, I am not at all certain if I would agree with the capitalisations. "Remington system" does not appear to be catitalised in the majority of cases - see n-gram. As for "Remington rolling[-]block [rifle]", the analysis at the start of this thread doesn't tend to support capping. See also [28] [29] [30] [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] From all of this, while "Reminton rifle" and "roling block" peaked in usage around the Civil War and again a bit later, "Remington rolling block [rifle]" appears to be a relatively modern construct. It begs the question of how these rifles/carbines were named/designated when they were purchased and used by the US and other militaries? Onomastically, we generally don't capitalise noun phrases that are descriptive. "Remington rolling block rifle" is descriptive. An exception would be if it is intrinsically part of a model name - eg "Remington Rolling Block Model X". But "Remington Rolling Block" is a term that significantly post dates when such rifles were made by Remington. "Remington rolling-block" appears to be a generic term that describes a family of firearms made by Remington with a rolling breechblock. I think that the answer lies in determining how these rifles were known/designated when they were purchased and in use. This critical information appears to be missing from the WP record. I wasn't successful in getting hits for various combinations of "Remington pattern" or "Remington model". Regards, Cinderella157 ( talk) 03:25, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
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This is a topic for Action (firearms) and should be merged into it. Digitallymade ( talk) 12:19, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
A rolling block is a generic action description, which is why the article title doesn't have it capped. And when it's used as a compound modifier, e.g before rifle or action or design, it would typically be hyphenated, to clue the user to read it as a unit (i..e. not the default non-hyphenated parse of rolling block rifle as a block rifle that is rolling). But when I made such fixes, I got reverted by an IP whose expertise is deep, I'm sure, in antique firearms, but perhaps not so deep in grammar and style. Per MOS:CAPS and MOS:HYPHEN, we should really be fixing these. Other ideas? Dicklyon ( talk) 02:41, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
Apparently Remington named this the "Remington System"; by 1956, Hatch says it "came to be known as the Remington Rolling Block Rifle", which I'd say is a historian capitalizing what's important to him (per WP:SSF), not evidence of proper name status. If there are retrospective model names (not that generic term for a bunch of models) that cap it, that's OK, but most uses, like in this article, are generic. Dicklyon ( talk) 17:18, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
On his talk page, the IP offered a bunch of URLs as evidence for why he needed to revert my fixes. So I looked at them and annotated them to make it clear that we should look to their sentence usage, which is mostly lowercase, not just their titles. These:
And there are also tons of sources that hyphenate. Just not these. Dicklyon ( talk) 21:58, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
@ Dicklyon: Thank you for inviting me. I looked through your notes and although I disagree with it, I nonetheless respect your decision as you clearly have much more knowledge of the fine, minute details of the English language along with the rules and regulations of Wikipedia. I've already gone ahead and made some of the adjustments based on your recommendations. Anything not relating to the company and model "Remington Rolling Block" has been lowercased along with a hyphen "rolling-block". Feel free to look over my work and make anymore corrections you may deem appropriate. [22] [23] [24] [25] 2600:1000:B05E:E107:F113:E420:D98:9394 ( talk) 23:07, 30 May 2021 (UTC)
@ Dicklyon: I suppose what you're saying makes sense and I went ahead and put mentions of the "Remington System" in a couple places. Feel free to edit or adjust as neccesary. [26] [27] 2600:1000:B05E:E107:A88F:220E:7155:27B ( talk) 01:35, 31 May 2021 (UTC)
Hi, I am not at all certain if I would agree with the capitalisations. "Remington system" does not appear to be catitalised in the majority of cases - see n-gram. As for "Remington rolling[-]block [rifle]", the analysis at the start of this thread doesn't tend to support capping. See also [28] [29] [30] [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] From all of this, while "Reminton rifle" and "roling block" peaked in usage around the Civil War and again a bit later, "Remington rolling block [rifle]" appears to be a relatively modern construct. It begs the question of how these rifles/carbines were named/designated when they were purchased and used by the US and other militaries? Onomastically, we generally don't capitalise noun phrases that are descriptive. "Remington rolling block rifle" is descriptive. An exception would be if it is intrinsically part of a model name - eg "Remington Rolling Block Model X". But "Remington Rolling Block" is a term that significantly post dates when such rifles were made by Remington. "Remington rolling-block" appears to be a generic term that describes a family of firearms made by Remington with a rolling breechblock. I think that the answer lies in determining how these rifles were known/designated when they were purchased and in use. This critical information appears to be missing from the WP record. I wasn't successful in getting hits for various combinations of "Remington pattern" or "Remington model". Regards, Cinderella157 ( talk) 03:25, 28 July 2021 (UTC)