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This page is really misleading.
DMA Design is not Rockstar North, and although all the history for DMA seems to be right, it's completely wrong to lump it together on the same page with Rockstar.
It makes no sense to give the history of DMA on this page, I suggest you split them into two separate pages.
Even though RSN bought DMA, they shut the Dundee studio and most of the original employees left.
RobertAnderberg 00:51, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
can anyone put on a trivia section that rockstar north did say that DMA means "doesnt mean anything"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.208.150.67 ( talk) 20:18, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
I am completely mystified about the name of DMA being "Dundee Modern Arts". If so, this must have taken place after 1997. Does anyone have a citation for this? I was an employeed of DMA up to that point and whilst it was a joke to begin with "Doesn't Mean Anything" definitely became official. - snap2grid
There is a bit of editorial comment in this article, ranging from "monumentally successful" to "undetailed retro graphics and tongue-in-cheek humour." It either needs to be cited or cleaned up. Pairadox 01:54, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Image:DMA Design.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot 05:01, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Image:DMA Design.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 02:37, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure the following sentence is really accurate. "It was the first high profile game to use middleware technology." Does using a licensed game engine really count as middleware? I personally don't think so, as middleware is usually a form of connection software, such as legacy mainframe to web-infrastructure apps, etc. Further, this would hardly be the first instance of licensing a game engine from one company to another. So, either way I feel that entire sentence is wrong. I don't think game engines are middleware, and even if they are, this is not the first time for this type of arrangement. burnte 07:47, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Is North officially Scotish? Because I know its based there but reading the "key" people are English. Given its diversity, wouldn't it be "British"? Stabby Joe ( talk) 18:07, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Obviously you havent read it correctly since the key people are in fact the key people in relation to Rockstar Games not Rockstar North.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.157.108.214 ( talk) 12:33, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
it is a scottish company because they are based in Scotland and that is more specific than 'British' and just because the 'key people' are english or whatever does not change that. Andrew22k ( talk) 18:44, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
R* North is Scottish. It's based in Scotland and its roots are Scottish. That R* Games [or R* New York] is based in the US or Dan & Sam Houser are of English origin doesn't change that. Dan & Sam live in the US nowadays and work directly for the New York HQ. That they have influence on R* North is quite normal because it is a subsidiary of R* Games. That such large teams like R* North are of many nationalities is also quite normal in games dev. business [cf. Crytek → german developer but international team]. –( de) jello ¿? 14:53, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
It is a British company, because they are a registered British company, operating in the UK, based in Edinburgh, a city in Britain. If Scotland becomes independant then fine, call it a Scottish company, but isn't this supposed to be a factual encyclopedia? Rhetorical question obviously, legally it is British, in the name of FACTS and because this is a FACTUAL ENCYCLOPEDIA it should be called a British company.... Avae010
Look in an encylopedia facts are important, legally Rockstar North is not a Scottish company, it may be based in Edinburgh, but the fact is that it is A LEGALLY REGISTERED BRITISH COMPANY with the UK INLAND REVENUE. Check out the legality yourself, http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/81373b689c3aa7bf631db49e0ef30be5/compdetails . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.146.52.171 ( talk) 13:48, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Well Im not sorry for pointing out the obvious to you, but by the very fact that it is registered in the British Governments' Companies House, it is by definition a British business, if you actually looked then you would have seen that it's legal country of origin is the United Kingdom, not Scotland, not Turkmenistan, not Narnia, but the United Kingdom. Additionally, in response to your assertation that the only address that is registered is a 'mailing address' this is quite simply misleading, legally they must specify the location of their administrative headquarters, that is quite seperate however from the reality that Rockstar North is a registered British company. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.129.147.220 ( talk) 00:59, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Alright, this is frankly becoming rather bizzarre and I find your attitude frankly unwarranted. Now im not embarrassed or ashamed to be wrong, I have researched this and you claim to have done likewise, yet you continue to mislead. Im not argueing over the existance of Scotland, what im argueing with you is that your now completely ignoring the facts about this. Rockstar North is legally a British company, it is a British company because there is not registration agency for doing so in Scotland, there is only one such agency, it is Company House, an executive agency of the United Kingdom government. If you find Rockstar North's name in the database of Company House, it is THEREFORE A BRITISH COMPANY. It is not registered under it's parent company, it has to register with its legal trading name. Addittionaly, in regards to WP:UKNATIONALS, that has nothing to do with businesses, it is in relation to the nationality of the peoples of the UK, though I assume you knew this already. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.129.147.220 ( talk) 01:48, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Look, maybe im coming across too strong and it's absolutely not my intention to offend you, really its not, I respect your opinion. Im only debating so vehemantly, not as an English person who wants to steal Rockstar North and claim it as British because it operates in Scotland (believe it or not I live in Scotland), but because of the fact that it is indeed a British company, though its offices are in Edinburgh. I wanted to clear the air, I hope you are not offended, though i'm standing by my guns and not giving an inch. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.129.147.220 ( talk) 02:31, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Right, firstly Companies House has registration offices in Edinburgh, Glasgow, Cardiff and London, all of these offices are merely offices of the UK agency itself. Secondly, the point of this debate is whether or not it is a UK company based on Edinburgh, I quote the original article "...is a Scottish developer based in Edinburgh,Scotland.", surprisingly you seem to be deviating from this. Addittionally, Scottish business have to comply with the UK Companies Act 2006, this superceedes Scottish Law, fact. All incorporated or limited businesses legally must register with Companies House, making any business registered with Companies House UK businesses. This is an important legal distinction, since there is no sovereign entity called Scotland, nor one called England or Wales, the only sovereign legal entity here is the UK. So forgive my earlier statements, it should be called a UK company.
++ Furthermore, I quote the Companies Act 2006 Chapter 46 "...provides for a single company law regime applying to the whole of the UK, so that companies will be UK companies..." ++
So again, your simply not providing factual points and your relying on user generated wikipedia articles.
Well,
A.G. Barr, makers of
Irn-Bru have on the front page of their website "A.G.Barr p.l.c., Westfield House, 4 Mollins Road, Westfield, Cumbernauld, G68 9HD Registered in Scotland (Reg No SC5653)". I don't know the legal basis of this but certainly suggests that they are registered, in Scotland, and that there is a distinction between a Scottish company and a British one.
Neilgravir (
talk)
19:30, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Clear as mud, then. The constant petty squabbling and distinctions between English/British, Scottish/British and English born Australian (etc, etc) on Wikipedia is reaching such a petty heights that it's almost reminiscent of the former Yugoslavia here. The arguments and vandalism are exposing some very insecure xenophobes.
Guv2006 (
talk)
05:54, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
Not that I want to wade into this argument, but if you look at any other company who is based in the UK, they are referred to as a British company. Even the Royal Bank of Scotland has British and United Kingdom mentioned in it.
Also, I'd like to point out that WP:UKNATIONALS says
"1.Look at what others have done in comparable articles."
What others have done is label any company based in any of the constituent countries as British, although infoboxes may sometimes use "Scotland, UK" in them. In the interests of fairness, would it not be better to say "...is a British company, based in Edinburgh, Scotland."? TomB123 ( talk) 17:00, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
It may be registered in England and have a few key English employees, but it still should be called a Scottish company. As most of the creative employees working there are Scottish. Making most of what Rockstar North produces Scottish creations. 95.151.33.143 ( talk) 22:50, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
The article for the PS3 exclusive Rockstar North developed game, is gone. Why?... because it seems to be directed to this article instead. There really needs to be a good reason for this, because the original article gave information worth knowing about the game & could be updated heavily in the future. The arctile for Rockstar North doesn't even list the game, let alone mention it. - Someone needs to come up with a good reason for the direction, or otherwise I'll change it back myself. Jas315 ( talk) 02:49, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for the inconvenience, I kept on clicking on the wrong talk page hyperlink and nothing would appear (also I made this account). Now to the main point, I have had a Problem with the origin of the Rockstar North Head Quarters, it is clearly in the heart of Scotland, Edinburgh but it states it is on British land which is also true but misleading and not giving enough credit to the country it is located, Scotland. I know this problem has gone on for many years, for example, Andy Murray is a famous Tennis player, he is known as a British Tennis player when he succeeding in his career and he is known as a Scottish Tennis player when he is preceding in his career. With the launch of Rockstar North's new installment to Rockstar Games' "Best-Selling" franchise, Grand Theft Auto V , Grand Theft Auto enthusiasts like myself would like to learn something new from its developers. I know it states it is located in Scotland but I could be more specific since the majority of the world thinks that Scotland is a County in the country Great Britain. I could come to an agreement if we let visitors of the page know that it was located in the Country Scotland and the sovereign state Britain instead of them thinking that Scotland is a County in the Country Britain. - MisterFR3SH 01 ( talk) 20:52, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
OK then, you win but Rockstar Toronto Head Quarters is located in Canada but on its Wikipedia page, it states it is a Canadian based company, not a North American company. I do not read tabloids, I watch Wimbledon when it is on, and it normally states that Murray is British when he is succeeding and Scottish hen he is preceding giving Scotland a bad name, an unfortunately, that is shown around the world, making watchers think that Scotland is a bad place even though it has one of the finest game developers in the world and a beautiful landscape. I just think that it is unfair but I am not everyone. - MisterFR3SH 01 ( talk) 16:36, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Personally, I am of the opinion that Rockstar North is a British video game developer based in... is the appropriate way of phrasing it. Firstly, currently Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales make up the United Kingdom. When you register a company within any of these countries, you register it within the United Kingdom, not the individual companies. The location/headquarters etc can be based in a country but the company is based in the United Kingdom. People and entities from the UK are referred to as British, ergo, they are a British Company. Looking at other articles (such as Id software) they tend to start with X is a <american/british/iranian> video game company based in <city/state/country> etc. Cabe 6403 ( Talk• Sign) 16:14, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
Why don't we focus off nationality and focus on it as an entity of
Rockstar Games? For example:
Rockstar North is a video game development studio of Rockstar Games located in Edinburgh, Scotland. Then the rest of the lead
--Edit I didn't purposely leave off formally DMA and the VGD link, I just paraphrased and forgot the link
This way the Rockstar Games has "credit" of ownership of Rockstar North. Also in the opening sentence, it doesn't really matter where Rockstar Games is located but what does matter is where Rockstar North is located since that's what this article is about. As as side note, the lead really needs to be rewritten to fit the guidelines of a lead
Anyway, just my opinion. ChadH ( talk) 00:47, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
It is of my opinion, that it is fine the way it is. It is just various political nationalistic views coming across. It's fine the way it is. People need to get over this "I'm not British, I'm Scottish, I'm English blah blah blah" Point is, the world mostly knows the UK as the UK. they already get confused with "Oh you live in England, how wonderful, do you know the Queen?" As long as it shows that it is based in Scotland then it should be fine, but is still British (It will be registered with the companies people in London). As for the American, well American is, one could argue, made up of countries (states) to form a United States (lets face it, some are bigger than Scotland) just like the UK which in turn is made up of different states/countries. MisterShiney ✉ 07:24, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
"Rockstar North (formerly DMA Design Ltd) is a British video game developer based in Edinburgh, Scotland"
I think the new text should read "Rockstar North (formerly DMA Design Ltd) is a Scottish video game developer based in the Capital City Edinburgh"
The reason for this is that Scotland is a more specific location and recognised internationally easier than "Britain". With all due respect to non-Brits reading this, it is a well known fact that people living outside of Britain are often unclear about what Britain is actually made up of. I think calling it Scottish and identifying Edinburgh as the Capital City will make the location instantly recognisable.
I'd like to hear your views on this.
Many thanks,
Michael — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michaelc840 ( talk • contribs) 17:24, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
I am aware of the previous posts but thanks for your suggestion. I have read the previous posts and feel that the argument is in favour of having Britain changed to Scotland. If no valid argument is presented against changing the post to Scotland withihn the next 10 days, I will proceed to edit the opening paragraph to read Scotland rather than Britain and if any attempts are made to reverse this back to Britain I will have no option but to undo their change and report the user of vandalism to the page.
Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michaelc840 ( talk • contribs) 23:40, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
Hi,
Just noticed that in the intro this states that Rockstar North has been a part of Take-Two Interactive since 2002, "Since early 2002 the company has been a part of the multinational company Rockstar Games, owned by Take-Two Interactive." which is not true.
Rockstar was initially bought by Take-Two from Infograms in September 1999 and then changed its name initially to Rockstar Studio's in March 2002 then Rockstar North in May of the same year.
Links for reference: Take-Two take over http://uk.gamespot.com/news/take-two-acquires-dma-design-2450265
Rockstar Studio's rename: http://uk.ign.com/articles/2002/03/19/scottish-developer-becomes-rockstar http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/article_45659
Rockstar North Rename:
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2002/05/24/e3-2002-rockstar-studios-changes-name-again
Could we get this changed?
thanks — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Anthony.job99 (
talk •
contribs)
14:12, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
Hi everybody,
I was looking through this article today and I would like to propose merging some of the section headers. If we moved the DMA Arrangement into the Mid 90's section and created a new late 90's section to include the release of GTA 1 and 2, as well as Space Station Silicon Valley and Body Harvest then made a new Early 2000's section to cover the companies move from Dundee to Edinburgh as well as the focus on GTA and Manhunt after the Take Two buy it it would make the article more structured and more informative.
Happy to make these changes myself but thought I would reach out to the community here first, thanks Juno.808 ( talk) 20:57, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
Hello again,
I thought I was put in a discussion here on splitting this article into two. This split would be to create a new article based on the history of DMA Design and to then keep the current one as a history of Rockstar North. These are two separate companies that acted independently and should be represented as such.
My suggestion would be to:
1. Create a new article on DMA Design which would be able to better represent that company focusing on the people that made it and to have more focus on the early, very interesting history.
2. To change this article to a more accurate history of Rockastar North beginning from 1999 and telling the story of how this company was started from former DMA Staff and Rockstar Games.
One of the main motivations for this is that information is being misrepresented on the web at the moment. i.e. google Rockstar North and it claims that Dave Jones set up the company (via info taken from this wiki), which is untrue. Similarly it claims that Rockstar North made Lemmings which it did not, that was an early DMA Design game and should be attributed as such. Splitting this article would allow more concise and accurate information on both of these separate companies.
again more than happy to complete this work myself,
thanks, look forward to hearing peoples thoughts Juno.808 ( talk) 10:28, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
Hello again, Just to address a couple of the points that TheDeviantPro pointed out. 1. That's true they have been under the same management since Take-Two purchased the company. 2. The article does say this but I was pointing out that this is not being accurately represented elsewhere on the web when this article is referenced. Therefore I put the idea that this should be made more clear by splitting the pages meaning the correct info is clearer. As my example stated above a simple Google Search will display "Rockstar North - Founded 2002 - Founders - David Jones, Steve Hammond, Mike Dailly, Russell Kay" with reference to this wiki article and is obviously incorrect. 3. Same as above.
I still think that splitting the articles would make more sense and would suggest this split: 1. The studio which became Rockstar North that was started by DMA employees in Edinburgh in 1999 and 2. The company DMA and the studio that it ran a Dundee Studio and was bought out by Take-Two for their Edinburgh studio - set up by some of its employees in 1999.
I'll put his up for discussion on the Video game project as suggested by TheDeviantPro Juno.808 ( talk) 19:11, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
I put up a discussion here: /info/en/?search=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Video_games#Splitting_Rockstar_North_and_DMA_Design_pages
However nobody seems to have voiced any concerns. The argument centers around that Rockstar North should is a studio and should be viewed as such, therefore any history of North should be since its founding in 1999, when it operated under DMA until the present day owned by Rockstar Games and should not include a full history of DMA which comprised the parent company based in Dundee. thanks Juno.808 ( talk) 11:50, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
I've read the various discussions above about whether the company should be described as Scottish, British or whatever. Quite regardless of this, it is not necessary or helpful to refer to "Edinburgh, Scotland, United Kingdom" in the infobox as those who do not know that Scotland is in the UK can easily find out in one click. If we were to take this line, why would we stop at the UK? We could extend it further by adding "European Union, Northern Hemisphere, Planet Earth" but we do not, as "Edinburgh, Scotland" is completely unambiguous and therefore all we need. -- John ( talk) 21:24, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
DMA was not co-founded, it was founded by Dave Jones, and the first employee was Dailly followed by the others. https://www.google.de/search?q=Mike+Dailly+%22first+employee%22 BlitzGreg ( talk) 13:57, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Scotland generally sees itself as separate to the rest of the UK and as such the vast majority of things/people on Wikipedia from Scotland are listed as 'Scottish' rather than 'British'. Couple this with the fact that 'British' is seen often as synonymous with 'English' that the game developer should be listed as Scottish rather than British to coincide with the identity of the people of Scotland as well as to coincide with typical standard of attributing nationality on Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.223.27.150 ( talk) 17:32, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
Formal request has been received to merge: DMA Design into Rockstar North; dated: February 2017. Proposer's Rationale: Since they are the same company (including being the same legal entity), they share the same history. The latter article already includes about all of the information from the prior, just in a different writing style, so it makes no sense to keep both. The DMA Design article should be redirected, and the lede and infobox of Rockstar North be adapted to DMA Design's. @ Lordtobi:. Discuss here. GenQuest "Talk to Me" 01:15, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
It is listed as developed by Rockstar North, is this correct? I didn't find info on this. Wasn't this game made by the Australian compaany? 187.65.217.107 ( talk) 19:36, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
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Hello fellow Wikipedians. Full disclosure, I work for TaxWatch UK.
In July 2019, we published a report which revealed that Rockstar North paid £0 corporation tax between 2009 and 2018 and received £42 million in tax relief, despite GTA V grossing over $5 billion in revenues.
This report was picked up by close to a hundred outlets, including The Guardian, BBC News, and The Sunday Times.
I would like for a small section to be included on the Rockstar North Wikipedia page. However, given the conflict of interest, I believe that someone else should make that edit.
Happy to answer any questions on the report.
Thanks,
Alex Alex0190 ( talk) 12:03, 14 November 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alex0190 ( talk • contribs) 11:44, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
Change "British" to Scotland, UK for the following reason:
(Copied from revisions) British is not formal and is vague. Scotland, UK refers to the sovereign country (UK) and state country (Scotland). Instead of just "British" it is a more informal and alternative word for the UK and the UK has of course been formal since the unification of Great Britain and Ireland, sources are in the public domain.
Do you agree/disagree with my point? Thanks... Also I'm new here :). Coronaverification ( talk) 20:07, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
The natural solution to this debate would be to describe it as "Scottish", something that is not able to be disputed given the company is in Scotland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:32F7:4100:DCF4:4ADA:E2E0:EF77 ( talk) 18:33, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This page is really misleading.
DMA Design is not Rockstar North, and although all the history for DMA seems to be right, it's completely wrong to lump it together on the same page with Rockstar.
It makes no sense to give the history of DMA on this page, I suggest you split them into two separate pages.
Even though RSN bought DMA, they shut the Dundee studio and most of the original employees left.
RobertAnderberg 00:51, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
can anyone put on a trivia section that rockstar north did say that DMA means "doesnt mean anything"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.208.150.67 ( talk) 20:18, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
I am completely mystified about the name of DMA being "Dundee Modern Arts". If so, this must have taken place after 1997. Does anyone have a citation for this? I was an employeed of DMA up to that point and whilst it was a joke to begin with "Doesn't Mean Anything" definitely became official. - snap2grid
There is a bit of editorial comment in this article, ranging from "monumentally successful" to "undetailed retro graphics and tongue-in-cheek humour." It either needs to be cited or cleaned up. Pairadox 01:54, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Image:DMA Design.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 05:01, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Image:DMA Design.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 02:37, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure the following sentence is really accurate. "It was the first high profile game to use middleware technology." Does using a licensed game engine really count as middleware? I personally don't think so, as middleware is usually a form of connection software, such as legacy mainframe to web-infrastructure apps, etc. Further, this would hardly be the first instance of licensing a game engine from one company to another. So, either way I feel that entire sentence is wrong. I don't think game engines are middleware, and even if they are, this is not the first time for this type of arrangement. burnte 07:47, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
Is North officially Scotish? Because I know its based there but reading the "key" people are English. Given its diversity, wouldn't it be "British"? Stabby Joe ( talk) 18:07, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Obviously you havent read it correctly since the key people are in fact the key people in relation to Rockstar Games not Rockstar North.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.157.108.214 ( talk) 12:33, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
it is a scottish company because they are based in Scotland and that is more specific than 'British' and just because the 'key people' are english or whatever does not change that. Andrew22k ( talk) 18:44, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
R* North is Scottish. It's based in Scotland and its roots are Scottish. That R* Games [or R* New York] is based in the US or Dan & Sam Houser are of English origin doesn't change that. Dan & Sam live in the US nowadays and work directly for the New York HQ. That they have influence on R* North is quite normal because it is a subsidiary of R* Games. That such large teams like R* North are of many nationalities is also quite normal in games dev. business [cf. Crytek → german developer but international team]. –( de) jello ¿? 14:53, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
It is a British company, because they are a registered British company, operating in the UK, based in Edinburgh, a city in Britain. If Scotland becomes independant then fine, call it a Scottish company, but isn't this supposed to be a factual encyclopedia? Rhetorical question obviously, legally it is British, in the name of FACTS and because this is a FACTUAL ENCYCLOPEDIA it should be called a British company.... Avae010
Look in an encylopedia facts are important, legally Rockstar North is not a Scottish company, it may be based in Edinburgh, but the fact is that it is A LEGALLY REGISTERED BRITISH COMPANY with the UK INLAND REVENUE. Check out the legality yourself, http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/81373b689c3aa7bf631db49e0ef30be5/compdetails . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.146.52.171 ( talk) 13:48, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
Well Im not sorry for pointing out the obvious to you, but by the very fact that it is registered in the British Governments' Companies House, it is by definition a British business, if you actually looked then you would have seen that it's legal country of origin is the United Kingdom, not Scotland, not Turkmenistan, not Narnia, but the United Kingdom. Additionally, in response to your assertation that the only address that is registered is a 'mailing address' this is quite simply misleading, legally they must specify the location of their administrative headquarters, that is quite seperate however from the reality that Rockstar North is a registered British company. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.129.147.220 ( talk) 00:59, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Alright, this is frankly becoming rather bizzarre and I find your attitude frankly unwarranted. Now im not embarrassed or ashamed to be wrong, I have researched this and you claim to have done likewise, yet you continue to mislead. Im not argueing over the existance of Scotland, what im argueing with you is that your now completely ignoring the facts about this. Rockstar North is legally a British company, it is a British company because there is not registration agency for doing so in Scotland, there is only one such agency, it is Company House, an executive agency of the United Kingdom government. If you find Rockstar North's name in the database of Company House, it is THEREFORE A BRITISH COMPANY. It is not registered under it's parent company, it has to register with its legal trading name. Addittionaly, in regards to WP:UKNATIONALS, that has nothing to do with businesses, it is in relation to the nationality of the peoples of the UK, though I assume you knew this already. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.129.147.220 ( talk) 01:48, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Look, maybe im coming across too strong and it's absolutely not my intention to offend you, really its not, I respect your opinion. Im only debating so vehemantly, not as an English person who wants to steal Rockstar North and claim it as British because it operates in Scotland (believe it or not I live in Scotland), but because of the fact that it is indeed a British company, though its offices are in Edinburgh. I wanted to clear the air, I hope you are not offended, though i'm standing by my guns and not giving an inch. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.129.147.220 ( talk) 02:31, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Right, firstly Companies House has registration offices in Edinburgh, Glasgow, Cardiff and London, all of these offices are merely offices of the UK agency itself. Secondly, the point of this debate is whether or not it is a UK company based on Edinburgh, I quote the original article "...is a Scottish developer based in Edinburgh,Scotland.", surprisingly you seem to be deviating from this. Addittionally, Scottish business have to comply with the UK Companies Act 2006, this superceedes Scottish Law, fact. All incorporated or limited businesses legally must register with Companies House, making any business registered with Companies House UK businesses. This is an important legal distinction, since there is no sovereign entity called Scotland, nor one called England or Wales, the only sovereign legal entity here is the UK. So forgive my earlier statements, it should be called a UK company.
++ Furthermore, I quote the Companies Act 2006 Chapter 46 "...provides for a single company law regime applying to the whole of the UK, so that companies will be UK companies..." ++
So again, your simply not providing factual points and your relying on user generated wikipedia articles.
Well,
A.G. Barr, makers of
Irn-Bru have on the front page of their website "A.G.Barr p.l.c., Westfield House, 4 Mollins Road, Westfield, Cumbernauld, G68 9HD Registered in Scotland (Reg No SC5653)". I don't know the legal basis of this but certainly suggests that they are registered, in Scotland, and that there is a distinction between a Scottish company and a British one.
Neilgravir (
talk)
19:30, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Clear as mud, then. The constant petty squabbling and distinctions between English/British, Scottish/British and English born Australian (etc, etc) on Wikipedia is reaching such a petty heights that it's almost reminiscent of the former Yugoslavia here. The arguments and vandalism are exposing some very insecure xenophobes.
Guv2006 (
talk)
05:54, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
Not that I want to wade into this argument, but if you look at any other company who is based in the UK, they are referred to as a British company. Even the Royal Bank of Scotland has British and United Kingdom mentioned in it.
Also, I'd like to point out that WP:UKNATIONALS says
"1.Look at what others have done in comparable articles."
What others have done is label any company based in any of the constituent countries as British, although infoboxes may sometimes use "Scotland, UK" in them. In the interests of fairness, would it not be better to say "...is a British company, based in Edinburgh, Scotland."? TomB123 ( talk) 17:00, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
It may be registered in England and have a few key English employees, but it still should be called a Scottish company. As most of the creative employees working there are Scottish. Making most of what Rockstar North produces Scottish creations. 95.151.33.143 ( talk) 22:50, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
The article for the PS3 exclusive Rockstar North developed game, is gone. Why?... because it seems to be directed to this article instead. There really needs to be a good reason for this, because the original article gave information worth knowing about the game & could be updated heavily in the future. The arctile for Rockstar North doesn't even list the game, let alone mention it. - Someone needs to come up with a good reason for the direction, or otherwise I'll change it back myself. Jas315 ( talk) 02:49, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for the inconvenience, I kept on clicking on the wrong talk page hyperlink and nothing would appear (also I made this account). Now to the main point, I have had a Problem with the origin of the Rockstar North Head Quarters, it is clearly in the heart of Scotland, Edinburgh but it states it is on British land which is also true but misleading and not giving enough credit to the country it is located, Scotland. I know this problem has gone on for many years, for example, Andy Murray is a famous Tennis player, he is known as a British Tennis player when he succeeding in his career and he is known as a Scottish Tennis player when he is preceding in his career. With the launch of Rockstar North's new installment to Rockstar Games' "Best-Selling" franchise, Grand Theft Auto V , Grand Theft Auto enthusiasts like myself would like to learn something new from its developers. I know it states it is located in Scotland but I could be more specific since the majority of the world thinks that Scotland is a County in the country Great Britain. I could come to an agreement if we let visitors of the page know that it was located in the Country Scotland and the sovereign state Britain instead of them thinking that Scotland is a County in the Country Britain. - MisterFR3SH 01 ( talk) 20:52, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
OK then, you win but Rockstar Toronto Head Quarters is located in Canada but on its Wikipedia page, it states it is a Canadian based company, not a North American company. I do not read tabloids, I watch Wimbledon when it is on, and it normally states that Murray is British when he is succeeding and Scottish hen he is preceding giving Scotland a bad name, an unfortunately, that is shown around the world, making watchers think that Scotland is a bad place even though it has one of the finest game developers in the world and a beautiful landscape. I just think that it is unfair but I am not everyone. - MisterFR3SH 01 ( talk) 16:36, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Personally, I am of the opinion that Rockstar North is a British video game developer based in... is the appropriate way of phrasing it. Firstly, currently Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales make up the United Kingdom. When you register a company within any of these countries, you register it within the United Kingdom, not the individual companies. The location/headquarters etc can be based in a country but the company is based in the United Kingdom. People and entities from the UK are referred to as British, ergo, they are a British Company. Looking at other articles (such as Id software) they tend to start with X is a <american/british/iranian> video game company based in <city/state/country> etc. Cabe 6403 ( Talk• Sign) 16:14, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
Why don't we focus off nationality and focus on it as an entity of
Rockstar Games? For example:
Rockstar North is a video game development studio of Rockstar Games located in Edinburgh, Scotland. Then the rest of the lead
--Edit I didn't purposely leave off formally DMA and the VGD link, I just paraphrased and forgot the link
This way the Rockstar Games has "credit" of ownership of Rockstar North. Also in the opening sentence, it doesn't really matter where Rockstar Games is located but what does matter is where Rockstar North is located since that's what this article is about. As as side note, the lead really needs to be rewritten to fit the guidelines of a lead
Anyway, just my opinion. ChadH ( talk) 00:47, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
It is of my opinion, that it is fine the way it is. It is just various political nationalistic views coming across. It's fine the way it is. People need to get over this "I'm not British, I'm Scottish, I'm English blah blah blah" Point is, the world mostly knows the UK as the UK. they already get confused with "Oh you live in England, how wonderful, do you know the Queen?" As long as it shows that it is based in Scotland then it should be fine, but is still British (It will be registered with the companies people in London). As for the American, well American is, one could argue, made up of countries (states) to form a United States (lets face it, some are bigger than Scotland) just like the UK which in turn is made up of different states/countries. MisterShiney ✉ 07:24, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
"Rockstar North (formerly DMA Design Ltd) is a British video game developer based in Edinburgh, Scotland"
I think the new text should read "Rockstar North (formerly DMA Design Ltd) is a Scottish video game developer based in the Capital City Edinburgh"
The reason for this is that Scotland is a more specific location and recognised internationally easier than "Britain". With all due respect to non-Brits reading this, it is a well known fact that people living outside of Britain are often unclear about what Britain is actually made up of. I think calling it Scottish and identifying Edinburgh as the Capital City will make the location instantly recognisable.
I'd like to hear your views on this.
Many thanks,
Michael — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michaelc840 ( talk • contribs) 17:24, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
I am aware of the previous posts but thanks for your suggestion. I have read the previous posts and feel that the argument is in favour of having Britain changed to Scotland. If no valid argument is presented against changing the post to Scotland withihn the next 10 days, I will proceed to edit the opening paragraph to read Scotland rather than Britain and if any attempts are made to reverse this back to Britain I will have no option but to undo their change and report the user of vandalism to the page.
Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michaelc840 ( talk • contribs) 23:40, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
Hi,
Just noticed that in the intro this states that Rockstar North has been a part of Take-Two Interactive since 2002, "Since early 2002 the company has been a part of the multinational company Rockstar Games, owned by Take-Two Interactive." which is not true.
Rockstar was initially bought by Take-Two from Infograms in September 1999 and then changed its name initially to Rockstar Studio's in March 2002 then Rockstar North in May of the same year.
Links for reference: Take-Two take over http://uk.gamespot.com/news/take-two-acquires-dma-design-2450265
Rockstar Studio's rename: http://uk.ign.com/articles/2002/03/19/scottish-developer-becomes-rockstar http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/article_45659
Rockstar North Rename:
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2002/05/24/e3-2002-rockstar-studios-changes-name-again
Could we get this changed?
thanks — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Anthony.job99 (
talk •
contribs)
14:12, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
Hi everybody,
I was looking through this article today and I would like to propose merging some of the section headers. If we moved the DMA Arrangement into the Mid 90's section and created a new late 90's section to include the release of GTA 1 and 2, as well as Space Station Silicon Valley and Body Harvest then made a new Early 2000's section to cover the companies move from Dundee to Edinburgh as well as the focus on GTA and Manhunt after the Take Two buy it it would make the article more structured and more informative.
Happy to make these changes myself but thought I would reach out to the community here first, thanks Juno.808 ( talk) 20:57, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
Hello again,
I thought I was put in a discussion here on splitting this article into two. This split would be to create a new article based on the history of DMA Design and to then keep the current one as a history of Rockstar North. These are two separate companies that acted independently and should be represented as such.
My suggestion would be to:
1. Create a new article on DMA Design which would be able to better represent that company focusing on the people that made it and to have more focus on the early, very interesting history.
2. To change this article to a more accurate history of Rockastar North beginning from 1999 and telling the story of how this company was started from former DMA Staff and Rockstar Games.
One of the main motivations for this is that information is being misrepresented on the web at the moment. i.e. google Rockstar North and it claims that Dave Jones set up the company (via info taken from this wiki), which is untrue. Similarly it claims that Rockstar North made Lemmings which it did not, that was an early DMA Design game and should be attributed as such. Splitting this article would allow more concise and accurate information on both of these separate companies.
again more than happy to complete this work myself,
thanks, look forward to hearing peoples thoughts Juno.808 ( talk) 10:28, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
Hello again, Just to address a couple of the points that TheDeviantPro pointed out. 1. That's true they have been under the same management since Take-Two purchased the company. 2. The article does say this but I was pointing out that this is not being accurately represented elsewhere on the web when this article is referenced. Therefore I put the idea that this should be made more clear by splitting the pages meaning the correct info is clearer. As my example stated above a simple Google Search will display "Rockstar North - Founded 2002 - Founders - David Jones, Steve Hammond, Mike Dailly, Russell Kay" with reference to this wiki article and is obviously incorrect. 3. Same as above.
I still think that splitting the articles would make more sense and would suggest this split: 1. The studio which became Rockstar North that was started by DMA employees in Edinburgh in 1999 and 2. The company DMA and the studio that it ran a Dundee Studio and was bought out by Take-Two for their Edinburgh studio - set up by some of its employees in 1999.
I'll put his up for discussion on the Video game project as suggested by TheDeviantPro Juno.808 ( talk) 19:11, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
I put up a discussion here: /info/en/?search=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Video_games#Splitting_Rockstar_North_and_DMA_Design_pages
However nobody seems to have voiced any concerns. The argument centers around that Rockstar North should is a studio and should be viewed as such, therefore any history of North should be since its founding in 1999, when it operated under DMA until the present day owned by Rockstar Games and should not include a full history of DMA which comprised the parent company based in Dundee. thanks Juno.808 ( talk) 11:50, 12 January 2014 (UTC)
I've read the various discussions above about whether the company should be described as Scottish, British or whatever. Quite regardless of this, it is not necessary or helpful to refer to "Edinburgh, Scotland, United Kingdom" in the infobox as those who do not know that Scotland is in the UK can easily find out in one click. If we were to take this line, why would we stop at the UK? We could extend it further by adding "European Union, Northern Hemisphere, Planet Earth" but we do not, as "Edinburgh, Scotland" is completely unambiguous and therefore all we need. -- John ( talk) 21:24, 22 August 2014 (UTC)
DMA was not co-founded, it was founded by Dave Jones, and the first employee was Dailly followed by the others. https://www.google.de/search?q=Mike+Dailly+%22first+employee%22 BlitzGreg ( talk) 13:57, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
Scotland generally sees itself as separate to the rest of the UK and as such the vast majority of things/people on Wikipedia from Scotland are listed as 'Scottish' rather than 'British'. Couple this with the fact that 'British' is seen often as synonymous with 'English' that the game developer should be listed as Scottish rather than British to coincide with the identity of the people of Scotland as well as to coincide with typical standard of attributing nationality on Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.223.27.150 ( talk) 17:32, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
Formal request has been received to merge: DMA Design into Rockstar North; dated: February 2017. Proposer's Rationale: Since they are the same company (including being the same legal entity), they share the same history. The latter article already includes about all of the information from the prior, just in a different writing style, so it makes no sense to keep both. The DMA Design article should be redirected, and the lede and infobox of Rockstar North be adapted to DMA Design's. @ Lordtobi:. Discuss here. GenQuest "Talk to Me" 01:15, 24 May 2017 (UTC)
It is listed as developed by Rockstar North, is this correct? I didn't find info on this. Wasn't this game made by the Australian compaany? 187.65.217.107 ( talk) 19:36, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
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Hello fellow Wikipedians. Full disclosure, I work for TaxWatch UK.
In July 2019, we published a report which revealed that Rockstar North paid £0 corporation tax between 2009 and 2018 and received £42 million in tax relief, despite GTA V grossing over $5 billion in revenues.
This report was picked up by close to a hundred outlets, including The Guardian, BBC News, and The Sunday Times.
I would like for a small section to be included on the Rockstar North Wikipedia page. However, given the conflict of interest, I believe that someone else should make that edit.
Happy to answer any questions on the report.
Thanks,
Alex Alex0190 ( talk) 12:03, 14 November 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alex0190 ( talk • contribs) 11:44, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
Change "British" to Scotland, UK for the following reason:
(Copied from revisions) British is not formal and is vague. Scotland, UK refers to the sovereign country (UK) and state country (Scotland). Instead of just "British" it is a more informal and alternative word for the UK and the UK has of course been formal since the unification of Great Britain and Ireland, sources are in the public domain.
Do you agree/disagree with my point? Thanks... Also I'm new here :). Coronaverification ( talk) 20:07, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
The natural solution to this debate would be to describe it as "Scottish", something that is not able to be disputed given the company is in Scotland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:32F7:4100:DCF4:4ADA:E2E0:EF77 ( talk) 18:33, 4 November 2021 (UTC)