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![]() | This article is/was the subject of an Outreach Programs & Events Dashboard-supported course assignment. |
This page is part of an Educational Project by students of LIUC, Italy, with a course page at: https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/LIUC_-_Universit%C3%A0_Cattaneo/Digital_Technology_(Autumn_2020)/home The users of the group are new to the Wikipedia platform and are learning to edit following Wikipedia rules. They are open to any advice on improvements of the page in conformity to Wikipeida requirements and guidelines, and any help useful for the enhancement of the page will be gladly accepted. The student team User names are:.
Limelightangel ( talk) 15:58, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
There is already a poor page on Manerba del Garda. If you retain your draft topic, you will need to clearly differentiate it from the existing page, and include enough specific topic content to avoid it being labelled as a Stub and/or to be included as a section on the existing page. This might also involve editing or even moving content on the existing page, to clearly establish two different topic pages. Limelightangel ( talk) 15:57, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
It is a different topic, Manerba del Garda is a city while this one is a fortress in Manerba del Garda, we are not going to talk about the town, but should we also add content on the specific article of Manerba del Garda, in order to link it in a proper way? Milan20MA ( talk) 18:19, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
I've added in Manerba del Garda article, more specifically in the paragraph: "see also" the reference to our article: Rocca di Manerba del Garda, highlighting the fact that we are still working on it, but that it will be realesed soon. I will check the talk in case it will be removed. Correct me if I've done anything wrong. TheGodfatherVitoCorleone ( talk) 21:22, 26 October 2020
The content needs citations for all the content, so that it is clear where the information comes from. All editors need to add these at the same time as the relevant content. Use the Cite drop-down in the edit page, select the correct media format for your source, and complete as much of the template as possible. It was covered in the online training, and there is plenty of online help. Learn the differences between blue in text citations to other wiki pages, numbered references, and External Links. You have the same source for an External link and reference 1. This is not correct. Use the source for the numbered reference (as you have), but don't use the same source as an External Link. Nor is this example a relevant external link. These are usually external websites that provide context to the page, without duplicating your numbered references. They appear above the References section. Your numbered reference does not appear where it should - under References. Nor is just a URL an acceptable format for this type of reference: use the Cite template for websites, and include the page title, website name, author, publisher, data and data accessed. Look at some existing pages, and read the help resources on external links (Google 'Wikipedia external links'): /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:External_links.
Some other essential starting points are:
Limelightangel ( talk) 15:28, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
The archaeological significance of this site needs a good summary/synthesis. Google Scholar has a range of academic articles related to this (there are 52, and not all relevant). You're not going to use them all, read them all, or copy from them. Use these and other good sources to look for facts that you can summarize and source - don't repeat/cut and paste detail from these or any sources. An example: look at how I used one of them to create a single referenced factual sentence under a new, and needed, page section on Archaeological Features - it's just an example. I didn't read the entire article source on Chalcothic cemeteries, just the article abstract/summary from Scholar. Look how I did the reference (Cite>journals>fill in template info). You may be using some good sources in Italian, so look at the rules here for referencing foreign language materials e.g. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Citing_sources/Archive_1#Non-English_references_in_the_English_Wikipedia_(copy_from_Village_Pump). Limelightangel ( talk) 17:47, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
websites: https://www.riservaroccamanerba.com/it/ books: https://www.unilibro.it/libro/lunardi-costanza/pietra-acqua-rocca-manerba-paesaggi-colori-garda-ediz-italiana-inglese/9788873859796?idaff=googlebase-03 From Google scholar: research that talks about the structure of the Rocca, it might be another subtitle. http://www.bibar.unisi.it/sites/www.bibar.unisi.it/files/testi/testisap/19/19-01.pdf Milan20MA ( talk) 15:37, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
Some sources: http://www.cai-desenzano.it/joomla/PDF/2013/Attendamento/La%20Rocca%20di%20Manerba%20del%20Garda%20tra%20Storia%20e%20Natura.pdf http://www.parchibresciani.it/parco-archeo-manerba/ https://www.riservaroccamanerba.com/en/ https://search.proquest.com/openview/d767d924811480bfc4134c4b750e649e/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=36387 http://www.bibar.unisi.it/sites/www.bibar.unisi.it/files/testi/testisap/19/19-01.pdf https://search.proquest.com/docview/1298016404?pq-origsite=gscholar&fromopenview=true https://www.lonelyplanet.com/italy/the-italian-lakes/valtenesi/attractions/parco-archeologico-rocca-di-manerba/a/poi-sig/1395803/1335818 LIUCLaura4 ( talk) 15:15, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
A source related to the trails : https://www.lecosmopolite.it/rocca-di-manerba-trekking-lago-di-garda/#Come_arrivare_alla_Rocca_di_Manerba TheGodfatherVitoCorleone ( talk) 14:50, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
I am adding the church of Saint Mary in the archeological features. Let me know what you think. Walk.culture ( talk) 18:58, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
TheGodfatherVitoCorleone ( talk) here the https for flora and fauna images: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Carpione_del_Garda.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/PikiWiki_Israel_3421_Geography_of_Israel.jpg TheGodfatherVitoCorleone ( talk) 11:36, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
I've added to images, that shows either the grass and the oak present near the Rocca, could u tell me which one do u prefer the most? thanks TheGodfatherVitoCorleone ( talk) 14:14, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
I've added the Visitor's centre, let me know if you think that we should keep it. Thanks Walk.culture ( talk) 15:14, 10 November 2020
There are two images of the cross in the gallery do u think we should keep both of them or not? TheGodfatherVitoCorleone, 4 November 2020
https://www.riservaroccamanerba.com/it/riserva-naturale/i-sentieri-della-riserva 16:16, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
I have made some corrections in the second subsection of the curiosities. Let me know if it is more readable. Milan20MA ( talk) 22:21, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
Note the conventions, purpose, and 'rules' for using Talk pages. Don't be discouraged from using it regularly, but note the following:
* /info/en/?search=Help:Talk_pages * /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines * /info/en/?search=Help:Introduction_to_talk_pages/1
As an example: the two URLs below need a section heading, e.g. Potential Sources, some text context (what are they there for?), and the automatic signature of the person who has posted (it's easy: 4 tildes (~) symbols creates my signature and time stamp). You also need to sign replies and indent your replies in the same section. Limelightangel ( talk) 15:36, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
-provide better captions to images, not just 'view to the north'. The images reside at another location, and the caption needs to clearly identify/describe the image content. -there needs to be images located in the relevant text, and aligned with the text and section. -there needs to be some images of the archaeological features, as this should be a main focus for notability and content. - needs a detailed map of the location and sites
- the sections on flora, fauna, origins, sacredness all have no references. The History section has one reference. There needs to be far more. - note the help on referencing. The current reference no. 6 is just a URL and in an unacceptable format - use the Cite web template correctly. See [ [1]]. ref. 8 needs a date - you need to balance the Italian language references with some acceptable English references. The only English reference was by User:Limelightangel. - learn how to use Ref Group in the cite templates to reference the same source multiple times from the text, but list it only once in the references. There are two references for an identical source (currently references 3 and 10). See Help:Footnotes#WP:NAMEDREFS - use acceptable sources, and avoid sources like myBrixen, Hiwio, etc. See Wikipedia:Acceptable_sources
- you need far more content on the archaeological and historical parts. These sections need defining and creating, probably chronologically. - the sections on History and Sacredness need re-writing/editing (and referencing) to make better sense. - the section on the museum needs to come after Archaeological Features. - the section on the chalcothic cemetry needs to be in the list below, and in the same format.
-avoid subjective and journalistic style e.g. 'brilliant sacredness', 'brilliant scenography', 'these days we see', 'tourists admire', etc.
- remove duplicate links to the same existing pages e.g. Iron Age, Lake Garda, etc. You link out once, where you first use the linked text. - understand the use, purpose and conventions with See Also links. remove irrelevant links here e.g. to Lombardy (Wine). See [ [3]] - fix the issues with external links. Neither are good sources (Wikiloc, Tutto Garda) nor relevant external links for this topic; neither are displaying properly on the page. Fix them. See [ [4]] - you are missing obvious relevant internal links e.g. to World heritage site, etc. Limelightangel ( talk) 14:43, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
- learn how to use Ref Group in the cite templates to reference the same source multiple times from the text, but list it only once in the references. There are two references for an identical source (references 3 and 4). See Help:Footnotes#WP:NAMEDREFS - use a consistent format for references. References 1, 12, and 19 have UPPER CASE, which is not used in the other references - fix these.
- you may lose the image of the Judas tree, which is taken in Israel, not at the Rocca. The caption is incorrect, and the image irrelevant for the page topic. - if you take a picture of someone else's work, you do not automatically hold copyright for it, as in the case of the medieval castle and the image of map running trails. These have been licensed by you as your own work when this is clearly not the case. Do you own the copyright here? The captions also need to be better, but the bigger issue is understanding acceptable image use. The pubscent [sic] oak and feather grass images (and some in the gallery) are explicitly not public domain and have usage conditions attached. The lake carp image is irrelevant to the page topic. You need to understand and deal with the requirements here for images and understand public domain licenses. - try to find an acceptable detailed map of the location and sites
- fix the issues with external links. Neither are good 'See also' sources (Wikiloc, Tutto Garda), nor relevant external links for this topic; neither are displaying properly on the page. Fix them. See [ [6]] - understand the use, purpose and conventions with See Also links. You don't duplicate links here that already occur in the text. See [ [7]] - you are still missing obvious relevant internal links, particularly to relevant archaeological pages, pile/stilt dwellings, etc. - you still have multiple links out to the same pages. - you link out the first time you use the linked text. See World Heritage Site link.
- the sub-sections under Curiosities still need substantial re-writing and should be addressed as a team. Avoid 'seems to', 'then','generally', 'finally', etc.
Limelightangel ( talk) 15:50, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
As requested on my talk page by Milan20MA, I am just having a quick look at this article to see if I can offer any suggestions. Although I cannot guarantee approval, it is looking pretty good so far, and at this point I am only going to offer a few minor copyediting suggestions.
GENERAL:
One last thing - I'd probably put the Geology section after History, as it seems more logical there. I think that's about it for now! As you can see, I've only mentioned a few copyediting tips; I haven't read and absorbed the content, but it all looks pretty good and well cited. I should think it would get through, based on my own experience of creating new articles (but I am not a new page reviewer, so can't officially pass it for you, sorry). Good luck! Laterthanyouthink ( talk) 10:33, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
I have fixed some of the links to disambiguation pages, but it still has a link to San Bernardino, which is a list of places named after the various Saint Bernards. If possible it wuold be better to link to the specific saint. Ϣere SpielChequers 09:27, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure that all of christianity except possibly Father Jack came long after the Bronze Age. So "Church of Saint Mary: Is the old baptismal church, a triple-naved church built after the Bronze Age" is not hugely useful. Unless the Church was originally a much older pre christian building that was converted in to a church? Ϣere SpielChequers 09:32, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article is/was the subject of an Outreach Programs & Events Dashboard-supported course assignment. |
This page is part of an Educational Project by students of LIUC, Italy, with a course page at: https://outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org/courses/LIUC_-_Universit%C3%A0_Cattaneo/Digital_Technology_(Autumn_2020)/home The users of the group are new to the Wikipedia platform and are learning to edit following Wikipedia rules. They are open to any advice on improvements of the page in conformity to Wikipeida requirements and guidelines, and any help useful for the enhancement of the page will be gladly accepted. The student team User names are:.
Limelightangel ( talk) 15:58, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
There is already a poor page on Manerba del Garda. If you retain your draft topic, you will need to clearly differentiate it from the existing page, and include enough specific topic content to avoid it being labelled as a Stub and/or to be included as a section on the existing page. This might also involve editing or even moving content on the existing page, to clearly establish two different topic pages. Limelightangel ( talk) 15:57, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
It is a different topic, Manerba del Garda is a city while this one is a fortress in Manerba del Garda, we are not going to talk about the town, but should we also add content on the specific article of Manerba del Garda, in order to link it in a proper way? Milan20MA ( talk) 18:19, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
I've added in Manerba del Garda article, more specifically in the paragraph: "see also" the reference to our article: Rocca di Manerba del Garda, highlighting the fact that we are still working on it, but that it will be realesed soon. I will check the talk in case it will be removed. Correct me if I've done anything wrong. TheGodfatherVitoCorleone ( talk) 21:22, 26 October 2020
The content needs citations for all the content, so that it is clear where the information comes from. All editors need to add these at the same time as the relevant content. Use the Cite drop-down in the edit page, select the correct media format for your source, and complete as much of the template as possible. It was covered in the online training, and there is plenty of online help. Learn the differences between blue in text citations to other wiki pages, numbered references, and External Links. You have the same source for an External link and reference 1. This is not correct. Use the source for the numbered reference (as you have), but don't use the same source as an External Link. Nor is this example a relevant external link. These are usually external websites that provide context to the page, without duplicating your numbered references. They appear above the References section. Your numbered reference does not appear where it should - under References. Nor is just a URL an acceptable format for this type of reference: use the Cite template for websites, and include the page title, website name, author, publisher, data and data accessed. Look at some existing pages, and read the help resources on external links (Google 'Wikipedia external links'): /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:External_links.
Some other essential starting points are:
Limelightangel ( talk) 15:28, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
The archaeological significance of this site needs a good summary/synthesis. Google Scholar has a range of academic articles related to this (there are 52, and not all relevant). You're not going to use them all, read them all, or copy from them. Use these and other good sources to look for facts that you can summarize and source - don't repeat/cut and paste detail from these or any sources. An example: look at how I used one of them to create a single referenced factual sentence under a new, and needed, page section on Archaeological Features - it's just an example. I didn't read the entire article source on Chalcothic cemeteries, just the article abstract/summary from Scholar. Look how I did the reference (Cite>journals>fill in template info). You may be using some good sources in Italian, so look at the rules here for referencing foreign language materials e.g. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Citing_sources/Archive_1#Non-English_references_in_the_English_Wikipedia_(copy_from_Village_Pump). Limelightangel ( talk) 17:47, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
websites: https://www.riservaroccamanerba.com/it/ books: https://www.unilibro.it/libro/lunardi-costanza/pietra-acqua-rocca-manerba-paesaggi-colori-garda-ediz-italiana-inglese/9788873859796?idaff=googlebase-03 From Google scholar: research that talks about the structure of the Rocca, it might be another subtitle. http://www.bibar.unisi.it/sites/www.bibar.unisi.it/files/testi/testisap/19/19-01.pdf Milan20MA ( talk) 15:37, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
Some sources: http://www.cai-desenzano.it/joomla/PDF/2013/Attendamento/La%20Rocca%20di%20Manerba%20del%20Garda%20tra%20Storia%20e%20Natura.pdf http://www.parchibresciani.it/parco-archeo-manerba/ https://www.riservaroccamanerba.com/en/ https://search.proquest.com/openview/d767d924811480bfc4134c4b750e649e/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=36387 http://www.bibar.unisi.it/sites/www.bibar.unisi.it/files/testi/testisap/19/19-01.pdf https://search.proquest.com/docview/1298016404?pq-origsite=gscholar&fromopenview=true https://www.lonelyplanet.com/italy/the-italian-lakes/valtenesi/attractions/parco-archeologico-rocca-di-manerba/a/poi-sig/1395803/1335818 LIUCLaura4 ( talk) 15:15, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
A source related to the trails : https://www.lecosmopolite.it/rocca-di-manerba-trekking-lago-di-garda/#Come_arrivare_alla_Rocca_di_Manerba TheGodfatherVitoCorleone ( talk) 14:50, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
I am adding the church of Saint Mary in the archeological features. Let me know what you think. Walk.culture ( talk) 18:58, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
TheGodfatherVitoCorleone ( talk) here the https for flora and fauna images: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Carpione_del_Garda.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/PikiWiki_Israel_3421_Geography_of_Israel.jpg TheGodfatherVitoCorleone ( talk) 11:36, 15 November 2020 (UTC)
I've added to images, that shows either the grass and the oak present near the Rocca, could u tell me which one do u prefer the most? thanks TheGodfatherVitoCorleone ( talk) 14:14, 7 November 2020 (UTC)
I've added the Visitor's centre, let me know if you think that we should keep it. Thanks Walk.culture ( talk) 15:14, 10 November 2020
There are two images of the cross in the gallery do u think we should keep both of them or not? TheGodfatherVitoCorleone, 4 November 2020
https://www.riservaroccamanerba.com/it/riserva-naturale/i-sentieri-della-riserva 16:16, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
I have made some corrections in the second subsection of the curiosities. Let me know if it is more readable. Milan20MA ( talk) 22:21, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
Note the conventions, purpose, and 'rules' for using Talk pages. Don't be discouraged from using it regularly, but note the following:
* /info/en/?search=Help:Talk_pages * /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines * /info/en/?search=Help:Introduction_to_talk_pages/1
As an example: the two URLs below need a section heading, e.g. Potential Sources, some text context (what are they there for?), and the automatic signature of the person who has posted (it's easy: 4 tildes (~) symbols creates my signature and time stamp). You also need to sign replies and indent your replies in the same section. Limelightangel ( talk) 15:36, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
-provide better captions to images, not just 'view to the north'. The images reside at another location, and the caption needs to clearly identify/describe the image content. -there needs to be images located in the relevant text, and aligned with the text and section. -there needs to be some images of the archaeological features, as this should be a main focus for notability and content. - needs a detailed map of the location and sites
- the sections on flora, fauna, origins, sacredness all have no references. The History section has one reference. There needs to be far more. - note the help on referencing. The current reference no. 6 is just a URL and in an unacceptable format - use the Cite web template correctly. See [ [1]]. ref. 8 needs a date - you need to balance the Italian language references with some acceptable English references. The only English reference was by User:Limelightangel. - learn how to use Ref Group in the cite templates to reference the same source multiple times from the text, but list it only once in the references. There are two references for an identical source (currently references 3 and 10). See Help:Footnotes#WP:NAMEDREFS - use acceptable sources, and avoid sources like myBrixen, Hiwio, etc. See Wikipedia:Acceptable_sources
- you need far more content on the archaeological and historical parts. These sections need defining and creating, probably chronologically. - the sections on History and Sacredness need re-writing/editing (and referencing) to make better sense. - the section on the museum needs to come after Archaeological Features. - the section on the chalcothic cemetry needs to be in the list below, and in the same format.
-avoid subjective and journalistic style e.g. 'brilliant sacredness', 'brilliant scenography', 'these days we see', 'tourists admire', etc.
- remove duplicate links to the same existing pages e.g. Iron Age, Lake Garda, etc. You link out once, where you first use the linked text. - understand the use, purpose and conventions with See Also links. remove irrelevant links here e.g. to Lombardy (Wine). See [ [3]] - fix the issues with external links. Neither are good sources (Wikiloc, Tutto Garda) nor relevant external links for this topic; neither are displaying properly on the page. Fix them. See [ [4]] - you are missing obvious relevant internal links e.g. to World heritage site, etc. Limelightangel ( talk) 14:43, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
- learn how to use Ref Group in the cite templates to reference the same source multiple times from the text, but list it only once in the references. There are two references for an identical source (references 3 and 4). See Help:Footnotes#WP:NAMEDREFS - use a consistent format for references. References 1, 12, and 19 have UPPER CASE, which is not used in the other references - fix these.
- you may lose the image of the Judas tree, which is taken in Israel, not at the Rocca. The caption is incorrect, and the image irrelevant for the page topic. - if you take a picture of someone else's work, you do not automatically hold copyright for it, as in the case of the medieval castle and the image of map running trails. These have been licensed by you as your own work when this is clearly not the case. Do you own the copyright here? The captions also need to be better, but the bigger issue is understanding acceptable image use. The pubscent [sic] oak and feather grass images (and some in the gallery) are explicitly not public domain and have usage conditions attached. The lake carp image is irrelevant to the page topic. You need to understand and deal with the requirements here for images and understand public domain licenses. - try to find an acceptable detailed map of the location and sites
- fix the issues with external links. Neither are good 'See also' sources (Wikiloc, Tutto Garda), nor relevant external links for this topic; neither are displaying properly on the page. Fix them. See [ [6]] - understand the use, purpose and conventions with See Also links. You don't duplicate links here that already occur in the text. See [ [7]] - you are still missing obvious relevant internal links, particularly to relevant archaeological pages, pile/stilt dwellings, etc. - you still have multiple links out to the same pages. - you link out the first time you use the linked text. See World Heritage Site link.
- the sub-sections under Curiosities still need substantial re-writing and should be addressed as a team. Avoid 'seems to', 'then','generally', 'finally', etc.
Limelightangel ( talk) 15:50, 9 November 2020 (UTC)
As requested on my talk page by Milan20MA, I am just having a quick look at this article to see if I can offer any suggestions. Although I cannot guarantee approval, it is looking pretty good so far, and at this point I am only going to offer a few minor copyediting suggestions.
GENERAL:
One last thing - I'd probably put the Geology section after History, as it seems more logical there. I think that's about it for now! As you can see, I've only mentioned a few copyediting tips; I haven't read and absorbed the content, but it all looks pretty good and well cited. I should think it would get through, based on my own experience of creating new articles (but I am not a new page reviewer, so can't officially pass it for you, sorry). Good luck! Laterthanyouthink ( talk) 10:33, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
I have fixed some of the links to disambiguation pages, but it still has a link to San Bernardino, which is a list of places named after the various Saint Bernards. If possible it wuold be better to link to the specific saint. Ϣere SpielChequers 09:27, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure that all of christianity except possibly Father Jack came long after the Bronze Age. So "Church of Saint Mary: Is the old baptismal church, a triple-naved church built after the Bronze Age" is not hugely useful. Unless the Church was originally a much older pre christian building that was converted in to a church? Ϣere SpielChequers 09:32, 1 December 2020 (UTC)