This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Article was previously created by Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Milram2010.
Commons uploads look lousy with copyvios:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:ListFiles/Runultratalk
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Robert_Young_(triathlete)
see also:
https://www.reddit.com/r/running/comments/4nc18o/robert_young_who_is_on_pace_to_break_the/
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=7355147&page=20
©Geni ( talk) 12:21, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
I'm not sure why I got a mention, my contact before was largely about how I don't really get how to do this stuff because I am a Wikipedia novice. My contribution to the page was to provide evidence, such as results, that directly refuted claims that were clearly put there by the guy himself. Personally I think a page which is about the controversy in the states and the report by skins is probably the only reliable information that you can have on here. None of his actual evidenced performances are of any note [redacted] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Woodywing ( talk • contribs) 07:20, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
This article is a disaster from start to finish: it was written as a puff piece in the first person, and along the way got augmented by editorial commentary, supposed video evidence, and was basically turned into a hit job. There is only one solution, and that is to nuke it. NeilN, after I pinged you I saw you had been contacted by a number of COI editors in this history, and I hope you agree that this BLP-violating nightmare needs to die.
Below I'll paste the external links, and I'll cull some of the reliable sources from the article--not the forums, not the videos, not the Facebook posts, not the press releases, not the reputation-destroying https://www.marathoninvestigation.com/. I'll try to rewrite it as a brief stub, but this will take some work. Drmies ( talk) 14:48, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
Ritchie333, thank you for your assistance. I posted at WP:BLPN also and am hoping that some seriously uninvolved editors will start pitching in. Which leads me to Woodywing's edit, this one: Woodywing, if you are a novice, I suppose you may not know that we have a policy that covers these kinds of article subjects, that is, living people. Please see our policy: Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. In light of that policy, I am telling you that the tendentious text of your edit is completely unacceptable (and not just because you state non-factual things in Wikipedia's voice), and please consider this a warning: do NOT make such edits again, because I will block you, just as any other admin would, for a serious BLP violation.
Kevin McE, you also: read the BLP, and also read our policy on WP:Reliable sources. You may think that the person was not being truthful when interviewed BY A RELIABLE SOURCE, but your opinion is immaterial: reliable sources are deemed reliable because we surmise there is editorial oversight, and that things don't get printed without being fact-checked.
For both of you, I am going to leave a templated BLP warning on your talk pages, so you know that I am quite serious about this. I am also going to place a template that informs you of ArbCom sanctioned discretionary sanctions--see WP:NEWBLPBAN--which basically means that you may be sanctioned for BLP violations. Such sanctions may include a topic ban, which means you cannot be involved with this article or even discuss the very topic on Wikipedia: I am already considering issuing both of you a topic ban, and I will look at y'all's edits again to see if they should be scrubbed from the history.
I do not really enjoy being all authoritative, but I thought I had been clear (and Ritchie too) about the problems with this article: to see them being brought back up again immediately is irksome. You both are welcome to collaborate, but it must be in agreement with our policy. And if you can't set your personal opinions on the subject aside when you edit Wikipedia, or this Wikipedia article, then you shouldn't be editing it. Thank you, Drmies ( talk) 15:31, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
If you're adding controversial content you must use good quality sources and stick closely to what the source says. For example, this adds a good source but the source does not back up the text being added. Do not editorialize, synthesize, or add speculations based off of thin air. -- NeilN talk to me 23:45, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
I've fully protected this page for two days because of an edit war between three editors that can edit through semi-protection. My primary concerns are WP:COATRACK issues on a WP:BLP. If this is resolved within two days, I'll remove the protection. I felt this was a better solution for now than WP:CSD as an attack page.--v/r - T P 23:55, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
What are you doing here, Black Kite? The content seems sourced per this. -- NeilN talk to me 19:18, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
After the hacking at the article, the last paragraph seems to be highly disjointed with the "out of the blue" mention of cheating. If I can find time later I'll do a rewrite to make it flow better but it seems there's a lot of gatekeeping going on with respect to the cheating allegations. I know this is a BLP and sources matter but it seems there is a higher standard being applied here than elsewhere. 129.9.75.191 ( talk) 12:46, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
The report was issued, and the authors appear to be recognized experts in the field. No claim is made in the body of the BLP as to the contents of the report or the statement by the sponsor.
Collect (
talk) 20:10, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
Note: the link to the report and the actual press release were removed as being "blacklisted." I note that "blacklisting" generally does not include material directly and uniquely attributable to the source, but is intended to prevent improper use of a source, especially as spam.
Collect (
talk) 13:57, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
The biographical "information" in this article is based only on what Robert Young has said about himself. This is through a series of interviews and/or press releases given by Young in the course of his promotional work for a book. Publications that we usually consider to be reliable sources have apparently chosen to accept that on face value.
Consistency demands that we also consider other things that Young has said about himself, not least here at Wikipedia. Admins will be able to access the series of claims that he made about himself in the series of articles accessible by looking at the contributions of this set of sockpuppets. Several admins have involved themselves in this issue and have failed to confirm, when invited to do so, that they have informed themselves about this history: strangely, none of them have been able to bring themselves to give a categorical yes or no.
Perhaps an admin will look at the deleted articles and extract some of the claims therein so that they can be compared with this more recent version of Young's descripion of his own personal and sporting history. The contrast that will then be abundantly clear will give all editors the chance to make an informed choice as to what level of trust they are willing to place on statements ultimately sourced to Young himself. Kevin McE ( talk) 08:55, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Article was previously created by Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Milram2010.
Commons uploads look lousy with copyvios:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:ListFiles/Runultratalk
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Robert_Young_(triathlete)
see also:
https://www.reddit.com/r/running/comments/4nc18o/robert_young_who_is_on_pace_to_break_the/
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=7355147&page=20
©Geni ( talk) 12:21, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
I'm not sure why I got a mention, my contact before was largely about how I don't really get how to do this stuff because I am a Wikipedia novice. My contribution to the page was to provide evidence, such as results, that directly refuted claims that were clearly put there by the guy himself. Personally I think a page which is about the controversy in the states and the report by skins is probably the only reliable information that you can have on here. None of his actual evidenced performances are of any note [redacted] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Woodywing ( talk • contribs) 07:20, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
This article is a disaster from start to finish: it was written as a puff piece in the first person, and along the way got augmented by editorial commentary, supposed video evidence, and was basically turned into a hit job. There is only one solution, and that is to nuke it. NeilN, after I pinged you I saw you had been contacted by a number of COI editors in this history, and I hope you agree that this BLP-violating nightmare needs to die.
Below I'll paste the external links, and I'll cull some of the reliable sources from the article--not the forums, not the videos, not the Facebook posts, not the press releases, not the reputation-destroying https://www.marathoninvestigation.com/. I'll try to rewrite it as a brief stub, but this will take some work. Drmies ( talk) 14:48, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
Ritchie333, thank you for your assistance. I posted at WP:BLPN also and am hoping that some seriously uninvolved editors will start pitching in. Which leads me to Woodywing's edit, this one: Woodywing, if you are a novice, I suppose you may not know that we have a policy that covers these kinds of article subjects, that is, living people. Please see our policy: Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. In light of that policy, I am telling you that the tendentious text of your edit is completely unacceptable (and not just because you state non-factual things in Wikipedia's voice), and please consider this a warning: do NOT make such edits again, because I will block you, just as any other admin would, for a serious BLP violation.
Kevin McE, you also: read the BLP, and also read our policy on WP:Reliable sources. You may think that the person was not being truthful when interviewed BY A RELIABLE SOURCE, but your opinion is immaterial: reliable sources are deemed reliable because we surmise there is editorial oversight, and that things don't get printed without being fact-checked.
For both of you, I am going to leave a templated BLP warning on your talk pages, so you know that I am quite serious about this. I am also going to place a template that informs you of ArbCom sanctioned discretionary sanctions--see WP:NEWBLPBAN--which basically means that you may be sanctioned for BLP violations. Such sanctions may include a topic ban, which means you cannot be involved with this article or even discuss the very topic on Wikipedia: I am already considering issuing both of you a topic ban, and I will look at y'all's edits again to see if they should be scrubbed from the history.
I do not really enjoy being all authoritative, but I thought I had been clear (and Ritchie too) about the problems with this article: to see them being brought back up again immediately is irksome. You both are welcome to collaborate, but it must be in agreement with our policy. And if you can't set your personal opinions on the subject aside when you edit Wikipedia, or this Wikipedia article, then you shouldn't be editing it. Thank you, Drmies ( talk) 15:31, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
If you're adding controversial content you must use good quality sources and stick closely to what the source says. For example, this adds a good source but the source does not back up the text being added. Do not editorialize, synthesize, or add speculations based off of thin air. -- NeilN talk to me 23:45, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
I've fully protected this page for two days because of an edit war between three editors that can edit through semi-protection. My primary concerns are WP:COATRACK issues on a WP:BLP. If this is resolved within two days, I'll remove the protection. I felt this was a better solution for now than WP:CSD as an attack page.--v/r - T P 23:55, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
What are you doing here, Black Kite? The content seems sourced per this. -- NeilN talk to me 19:18, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
After the hacking at the article, the last paragraph seems to be highly disjointed with the "out of the blue" mention of cheating. If I can find time later I'll do a rewrite to make it flow better but it seems there's a lot of gatekeeping going on with respect to the cheating allegations. I know this is a BLP and sources matter but it seems there is a higher standard being applied here than elsewhere. 129.9.75.191 ( talk) 12:46, 16 May 2017 (UTC)
The report was issued, and the authors appear to be recognized experts in the field. No claim is made in the body of the BLP as to the contents of the report or the statement by the sponsor.
Collect (
talk) 20:10, 17 May 2017 (UTC)
Note: the link to the report and the actual press release were removed as being "blacklisted." I note that "blacklisting" generally does not include material directly and uniquely attributable to the source, but is intended to prevent improper use of a source, especially as spam.
Collect (
talk) 13:57, 18 May 2017 (UTC)
The biographical "information" in this article is based only on what Robert Young has said about himself. This is through a series of interviews and/or press releases given by Young in the course of his promotional work for a book. Publications that we usually consider to be reliable sources have apparently chosen to accept that on face value.
Consistency demands that we also consider other things that Young has said about himself, not least here at Wikipedia. Admins will be able to access the series of claims that he made about himself in the series of articles accessible by looking at the contributions of this set of sockpuppets. Several admins have involved themselves in this issue and have failed to confirm, when invited to do so, that they have informed themselves about this history: strangely, none of them have been able to bring themselves to give a categorical yes or no.
Perhaps an admin will look at the deleted articles and extract some of the claims therein so that they can be compared with this more recent version of Young's descripion of his own personal and sporting history. The contrast that will then be abundantly clear will give all editors the chance to make an informed choice as to what level of trust they are willing to place on statements ultimately sourced to Young himself. Kevin McE ( talk) 08:55, 21 May 2017 (UTC)