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Archive 1 |
Clue Game I've snipped the following material which is entertaining but doesn't belong in an encyclopedia article. Dpbsmith (talk) 15:47, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
I can't find any references on Goddard being the "inventor" of the bazooka, where the bazooka article itself tells a different story. Can someone confirm either story? -- Anthony Liekens 14:10, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
In the following quotation about Goddard's moon-rocket ideas, I added the word "large" which seemed most likely to be the missing word (emphasis added):
24.171.142.93 wrote in a comment, "Removed editorial commentary -- Tsiolkovsky's work does not need defending here. If Tsiolkovsky needs to be mentioned with Goddard, there are less clumsy ways of doing so." Please do find a less clumsy way to do so! The relevance of Tsiolkovsky's work is clear. The question is whether the article can be WP:NPOV without mentioning it. I personally don't believe it can be. Sdsds 23:47, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
The footnote [1] in the section about his inspiration day links to a spam website. I was going to revert it back but could not figure it out. Please some one fix this.
There is another middle school based on him. Goddard Middle School in Littleton, Colorado. I know because I go there. I think it should be mentioned in the article somewhere to. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.208.66.198 ( talk) 19:00, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
I was pleasantly surprised to see the content and accuracy at such a high level on RHG's entry. Good work team! FYI, RHG is a distant ancestor of mine (many cousins removed), and my mother always thought my interest in space and electronics keyed into RHG somehow. She didn't know about his electronics work. She always said that RHG was a bit of a dreamer and his Mass. relatives were still embarrassed by the NYT article on the burning of (his; my great aunt x-removed))Aunt Effie's farm(land)...that was 40 years ago she said this, so these yankees didn't forget easily!
God Bless the one-dream man :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.41.123.210 ( talk) 15:13, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm surprised there is no mention of the antipathy that Goddard had for Oberth. Goddard believed that Oberth plagarized his 1919 work and was furious, even paranoid, about Oberth's claims to have independantly invented the same ideas several years later. This one of reason that historians cite for why Goddard became so secretive. See for example: http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4211/ch3-1.htm or take a look around page 110 of "Rocket Man" by David Clary. The Russian professor of aeronautics at Leningrad, Nicolai Rynin, openly accused Oberth of plagiarizing Goddard's work. This is a delicate topic, but should be noted in some way in the article. DonPMitchell ( talk) 18:14, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Eventually, she and Goddard were engaged, but they drifted apart and ended the engagement around 1909.
This information seems more for a biographical book than a biographical encyclopaedia article.
The entire article seems to be written as a Goddard autobiography instead of as a detached biographical sketch of the man, but I thought I would point out this one instance as particularly out of place (fotoguzzi) 69.64.235.42 ( talk) 05:56, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
While overall, this article reads well (there is a bit of a cheerleading tone to some of it), there is a distinct lack of specific citations in large passages, as if they were lifted in large part from a single source (possibly a magazine article). Does anybody know if this is the case? -- Piledhigheranddeeper ( talk) 15:58, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
It should be listed that he died from throat cancer.-- Craigboy ( talk) 04:44, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
“Wernher von Braun did most of his work from Goddard's theories. The V-2 was extremely similar to Goddard's designs.”
I am sorry, but von Braun could fool naive Americans of using as own advertising the propaganda of ideas of Konstantin Tsiolkovsky and Kondratyuk-Shargei, but forgetting to inform about authorship only.
So the source for plagiarism of ideas for the Lunar program there was a book - "Conquest of interplanetary spaces"/Yuri Kondratyuk, Sibkraysouz, Novosibirsk, 1929! — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
92.100.6.38 (
talk)
20:43, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
Ridiculous.
Those are obviously politically motivated statements… probably because people are sensitive to von Braun’s Nazi connection and one of America’s crowning achievements has its roots in grey morality.
Lets look at the facts….
Goddard is credited with creating the first successful liquid-fuelled rocket. 2.4 seconds of flight. Check out the nice picture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Goddard_%28scientist%29
Among well known von Braun designs….the V-2 , Redstone, and Saturn V rockets. Man on the moon. Check out von Braun’s projects.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redstone_%28rocket%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_V
“EXTREMELY” similar to Goddard’s design?
Although there are historical connections… notably liquid-propellent and nozzle technology (based on a Swede’s design)…this is analogous to saying Charles Babbage’s difference engine is the extremely similar to a modern supercomputer. Or Einstein's 1905 work is mostly based on Newton because they both use calculus.
Pah-lease.
As I see it…. American’s first choice would have been to not use a former Nazi for rocket research… however because the Soviet Union was so far ahead (because of other Nazi German scientists)…. they really had no choice. (First Man in space, first Satellite in space, etc….)
Otherwise why not rely on Goddard’s work and avoid the political scandal of using von Braun’s work?
Goddard’s achievements are truly notable… but please no propaganda or revisionist history. Unfortunately, because rocket technology contains a special propaganda value (even today) this myth will sadly likely continue to propagate.
On the other hand though…. even von Braun couldn’t do it alone. He was financed by America money and assistance. America would have eventually got there on its own... but the propaganda value of achieving “firsts” before the Soviet Union solidified his importance to their space program.
If someone wants to make a connection between von Braun and Goddard it should only be made in a history of rocket article where it would be appropriate and the details of connections could be properly argued and backed up with evidence.
History can be ugly, but we should never rewrite or else we’ll fail to learn lessons. Not to mention it is an abandonment of rationalism.
Sources:
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/sputnik/braun.html http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Dictionary/von_Braun/DI119.htm
The picture of Goddard claimed to be from 1924 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Robert_Goddard_1924.jpg) is obviously not from the '20s (note the color in the background and poor photoshopping on Goddard). I doubt someone is trying to fool us all with this picture, so what's the deal here? I removed the photo pending the result of this discussion. - Why Americans very often get in the trap of primitive ignorance? so even naive Robert Goddard did not know in 1926, about, as In 1916, colonel Ivan Grave invented a missile powered by smokeless powder and launched from mobile launchers, and started first experiments of primitive a liquid-fueled rockets! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.100.6.38 ( talk) 20:11, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
The picture of the brass plaque that says Robert H Goddard park is just that, a picture of the plaque in the park (behind Auburn FD HQ) dedicated to him. His first launch was on the farm that became Pakachoag Golf course. I hear there is a marker there as well, but I've yet to stop by and see it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ssquire ( talk • contribs) 13:22, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
Is anyone sure that the photograph of the scientist with a rocket is of Goddard? It said on the Library of Congress's site that it was possibly Robert H. Goddard. 74.4.205.208 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:46, 26 October 2011 (UTC).
vc´s americanos são muito fdp´s..pra roubar o sulamericano paulet ja dizem que precisa de comprovações, mas quando é pra roubar outro sulamericano dumont não precisa por que só basta o testemunho vosso dos irmãos wright ou o caralho a 4.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.48.117.116 ( talk) 07:57, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
Paulet claimed in 1920 that he had built a rocket engine 25 years before. No witnesses. No documents. Test site never identified. He claimed to use nitrogen peroxide, which was probably not obtainable in Peru in 1895. He claimed it worked by explosive pulses at 300/minute, which is a difficult and unusual way to operate a rocket engine. George Sutton concludes this in his _History of Liquid Propellant Rocket Engines_, "It is doubtful that a single individual could accomplish all this, when talented investigators in other countries took years to come up with such an advanced pulsing thrust chamber, with the claimed relatively high trust level and firing duration, and a fancy ignition system. The consensus among historians is that Goddard was the first to fire and launch a LPRE" DonPMitchell ( talk) 19:57, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
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![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Clue Game I've snipped the following material which is entertaining but doesn't belong in an encyclopedia article. Dpbsmith (talk) 15:47, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
I can't find any references on Goddard being the "inventor" of the bazooka, where the bazooka article itself tells a different story. Can someone confirm either story? -- Anthony Liekens 14:10, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
In the following quotation about Goddard's moon-rocket ideas, I added the word "large" which seemed most likely to be the missing word (emphasis added):
24.171.142.93 wrote in a comment, "Removed editorial commentary -- Tsiolkovsky's work does not need defending here. If Tsiolkovsky needs to be mentioned with Goddard, there are less clumsy ways of doing so." Please do find a less clumsy way to do so! The relevance of Tsiolkovsky's work is clear. The question is whether the article can be WP:NPOV without mentioning it. I personally don't believe it can be. Sdsds 23:47, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
The footnote [1] in the section about his inspiration day links to a spam website. I was going to revert it back but could not figure it out. Please some one fix this.
There is another middle school based on him. Goddard Middle School in Littleton, Colorado. I know because I go there. I think it should be mentioned in the article somewhere to. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.208.66.198 ( talk) 19:00, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
I was pleasantly surprised to see the content and accuracy at such a high level on RHG's entry. Good work team! FYI, RHG is a distant ancestor of mine (many cousins removed), and my mother always thought my interest in space and electronics keyed into RHG somehow. She didn't know about his electronics work. She always said that RHG was a bit of a dreamer and his Mass. relatives were still embarrassed by the NYT article on the burning of (his; my great aunt x-removed))Aunt Effie's farm(land)...that was 40 years ago she said this, so these yankees didn't forget easily!
God Bless the one-dream man :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.41.123.210 ( talk) 15:13, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm surprised there is no mention of the antipathy that Goddard had for Oberth. Goddard believed that Oberth plagarized his 1919 work and was furious, even paranoid, about Oberth's claims to have independantly invented the same ideas several years later. This one of reason that historians cite for why Goddard became so secretive. See for example: http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4211/ch3-1.htm or take a look around page 110 of "Rocket Man" by David Clary. The Russian professor of aeronautics at Leningrad, Nicolai Rynin, openly accused Oberth of plagiarizing Goddard's work. This is a delicate topic, but should be noted in some way in the article. DonPMitchell ( talk) 18:14, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Eventually, she and Goddard were engaged, but they drifted apart and ended the engagement around 1909.
This information seems more for a biographical book than a biographical encyclopaedia article.
The entire article seems to be written as a Goddard autobiography instead of as a detached biographical sketch of the man, but I thought I would point out this one instance as particularly out of place (fotoguzzi) 69.64.235.42 ( talk) 05:56, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
While overall, this article reads well (there is a bit of a cheerleading tone to some of it), there is a distinct lack of specific citations in large passages, as if they were lifted in large part from a single source (possibly a magazine article). Does anybody know if this is the case? -- Piledhigheranddeeper ( talk) 15:58, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
It should be listed that he died from throat cancer.-- Craigboy ( talk) 04:44, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
“Wernher von Braun did most of his work from Goddard's theories. The V-2 was extremely similar to Goddard's designs.”
I am sorry, but von Braun could fool naive Americans of using as own advertising the propaganda of ideas of Konstantin Tsiolkovsky and Kondratyuk-Shargei, but forgetting to inform about authorship only.
So the source for plagiarism of ideas for the Lunar program there was a book - "Conquest of interplanetary spaces"/Yuri Kondratyuk, Sibkraysouz, Novosibirsk, 1929! — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
92.100.6.38 (
talk)
20:43, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
Ridiculous.
Those are obviously politically motivated statements… probably because people are sensitive to von Braun’s Nazi connection and one of America’s crowning achievements has its roots in grey morality.
Lets look at the facts….
Goddard is credited with creating the first successful liquid-fuelled rocket. 2.4 seconds of flight. Check out the nice picture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Goddard_%28scientist%29
Among well known von Braun designs….the V-2 , Redstone, and Saturn V rockets. Man on the moon. Check out von Braun’s projects.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redstone_%28rocket%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_V
“EXTREMELY” similar to Goddard’s design?
Although there are historical connections… notably liquid-propellent and nozzle technology (based on a Swede’s design)…this is analogous to saying Charles Babbage’s difference engine is the extremely similar to a modern supercomputer. Or Einstein's 1905 work is mostly based on Newton because they both use calculus.
Pah-lease.
As I see it…. American’s first choice would have been to not use a former Nazi for rocket research… however because the Soviet Union was so far ahead (because of other Nazi German scientists)…. they really had no choice. (First Man in space, first Satellite in space, etc….)
Otherwise why not rely on Goddard’s work and avoid the political scandal of using von Braun’s work?
Goddard’s achievements are truly notable… but please no propaganda or revisionist history. Unfortunately, because rocket technology contains a special propaganda value (even today) this myth will sadly likely continue to propagate.
On the other hand though…. even von Braun couldn’t do it alone. He was financed by America money and assistance. America would have eventually got there on its own... but the propaganda value of achieving “firsts” before the Soviet Union solidified his importance to their space program.
If someone wants to make a connection between von Braun and Goddard it should only be made in a history of rocket article where it would be appropriate and the details of connections could be properly argued and backed up with evidence.
History can be ugly, but we should never rewrite or else we’ll fail to learn lessons. Not to mention it is an abandonment of rationalism.
Sources:
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/sputnik/braun.html http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Dictionary/von_Braun/DI119.htm
The picture of Goddard claimed to be from 1924 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Robert_Goddard_1924.jpg) is obviously not from the '20s (note the color in the background and poor photoshopping on Goddard). I doubt someone is trying to fool us all with this picture, so what's the deal here? I removed the photo pending the result of this discussion. - Why Americans very often get in the trap of primitive ignorance? so even naive Robert Goddard did not know in 1926, about, as In 1916, colonel Ivan Grave invented a missile powered by smokeless powder and launched from mobile launchers, and started first experiments of primitive a liquid-fueled rockets! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.100.6.38 ( talk) 20:11, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
The picture of the brass plaque that says Robert H Goddard park is just that, a picture of the plaque in the park (behind Auburn FD HQ) dedicated to him. His first launch was on the farm that became Pakachoag Golf course. I hear there is a marker there as well, but I've yet to stop by and see it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ssquire ( talk • contribs) 13:22, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
Is anyone sure that the photograph of the scientist with a rocket is of Goddard? It said on the Library of Congress's site that it was possibly Robert H. Goddard. 74.4.205.208 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:46, 26 October 2011 (UTC).
vc´s americanos são muito fdp´s..pra roubar o sulamericano paulet ja dizem que precisa de comprovações, mas quando é pra roubar outro sulamericano dumont não precisa por que só basta o testemunho vosso dos irmãos wright ou o caralho a 4.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.48.117.116 ( talk) 07:57, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
Paulet claimed in 1920 that he had built a rocket engine 25 years before. No witnesses. No documents. Test site never identified. He claimed to use nitrogen peroxide, which was probably not obtainable in Peru in 1895. He claimed it worked by explosive pulses at 300/minute, which is a difficult and unusual way to operate a rocket engine. George Sutton concludes this in his _History of Liquid Propellant Rocket Engines_, "It is doubtful that a single individual could accomplish all this, when talented investigators in other countries took years to come up with such an advanced pulsing thrust chamber, with the claimed relatively high trust level and firing duration, and a fancy ignition system. The consensus among historians is that Goddard was the first to fire and launch a LPRE" DonPMitchell ( talk) 19:57, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 09:45, 8 November 2017 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 09:28, 9 December 2017 (UTC)