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I see that the British use of the word 'pavement' has been pushed down into it's own page entitled 'Pavement (British English)'. When there are regional variations such as this, please consider making any 'disambiguation' consistent. IE, please consider renaming this article 'Pavement (US English)'. Hopefully, do this would avoid causing offence unnecessarily.
My campaign is for a pavement to be put along all A-Road dual carriageways inb Britain to make it safer for pedestrains.
How is this comment encyclopedic? Everybody got to be somewhere! ( talk) 22:21, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
I modified the title of this section to "Pavement deterioration" and added discussion of the design process. This was added to clarify the recent behind-the-scenes controversy over pavement damage due to truck traffic. Trucks are, in point of fact, almost entirely responsible for long-term pavement distress. This is not a controversy to civil engineers.
I added reference to the new FHwA standards for completeness.
MARussellPESE 17:36, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
This is not the American term for these kinds of roads that I can tell. These are typically called macadam here, or formally: "Stabilized." Regional usage varies widely even here. I recommend modifying the title to "Stabilized" (Yes, with a "z" as this is the American pavement article. :) ) but expand the reference to include metalling, macadam, gravel, etc. I would also recommend discussing the various ways that these are stabilized: sand-clay, calcium-chloride, portland cement, bitumen, etc. Opinions are invited. MARussellPESE 17:36, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
Why is the emphasis on American road paving stated above??? Do we need to start a Worldpedia? eg. calling Roman water channels French Drain after an 1800s American is just so jingoist that I choke! Please be more factual and less parochial American. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Strider22 ( talk • contribs) 19:59, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
As an American, pavement refers to the material which cars, bicycles, and pedestrians may travel on, and not so much to the actual roadways, bicycle paths, and sidewalks themselves. Am I alone here?
does not show a new road being laid next to the old surface... the old surface has been stripped away.
It would be interesting to learn more about the history of paving technology, and the reasons why it has changed. -- Beland 00:46, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
The answer is simple. Paved roads offer better performance in a wide variety of weather conditions, especially when they are more intensely trafficked. Even so the US still has many kilometres of earth roads, far more per capita than in Europe for example. Everybody got to be somewhere! ( talk) 22:24, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
The section on concrete states "Today, a majority of the U.S. state agencies build jointed plain pavements." At least in the Northeastern US, HMA is the favored material. Should this be "Today, a majority of the U.S. state agencies that construct concrete pavement build jointed plain pavements."
Triskele Jim 20:03, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
The page Pavement (material) was moved to Road surface by Parable1991 at 14:03, 5 May 2007. This appears to be a unilateral move without prior discussion. I believe it was done against standard practice, and by someone who has a history of engaging in such acts (see past warning and user edit history). I'm going to request the page be moved back and that the user be blocked. — DragonHawk ( talk| hist) 22:45, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
There is an OECD sponsored organization AIPCR - PIARC that has worked hard to standardize terminology in the road construction field. Its recommendations are apparently ignored in this article, which so far seems to be largely drawn from US sources. Road construction is an empirical kind of activity and it is difficult if not impossible to extrapolate from one particular geographical area of expertise to another. Nonetheless a standardized English for road construction does exist as does a standardized French, German, Dutch, Spanish, Italian and Russian. The standardized glossary is available from PIARC for a small sum. Everybody got to be somewhere! ( talk) 22:19, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
I don't have any problem with examples of the various road surface types, however they need to be worded appropriately.
A line I removed was, "The Operation Division of the Ministry of Highways and Infrastructure in Saskatchewan has the responsibility of maintaining 6,102 kilometres (3,791.6 mi) of thin membrane surface"
If an example of Thin Membrane Surface is provided, it should read "There are 6,102 kilometres (3,791.6 mi) of thin membrane surface roadways in Saskatchewan"
The original phrase draws more attention on the 'responsibility of maintenance' of that road surface, and not a clear example of the road surface itself.
The same applies to the previous line under the "Granular" heading. I removed "Besides the 4,929 kilometres (3,062.7 mi) of granular pavements maintained in Saskatchewan, over 90% of New Zealand roads are unbound granular pavement structures."
I don't see the relevance of specifically mentioning roads "maintained" in Saskatchewan. I think the example written as "90% of New Zealand roads are unbound granular pavement structures" is fine, however if there's a need to cite Saskatchewan roads as well, it should focus on the example of the material and not emphasize "maintenance" of the roadways.
I think it would be more appropriate to state: "Over 90% of New Zealand roads are unbound granular pavement structures, and 4,929 kilometres (3,062.7 mi) of roads in Saskatchewan." Lowrydr310 ( talk) 18:54, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
This section lacks adequate references and contains partially substantiated material. A subject-matter expert should review the classes of deterioration systematically and provide documented sections for each. Some examples include the omission of frost-heave damage and thaw weakening, and that snow tires wear surfaces rather than cause rutting by deforming the surface. -- User:HopsonRoad 23:23, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
Unimproved road redirects to here... but there isn't any explanation or definition of what that term means. Can anyone gather together some road surface terms and give their meanings? Please include the meaning sof "unimproved" and "improved". Thanks 125.215.150.94 ( talk) 04:44, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
Concrete pavement preservation (CPP) and concrete pavement restoration (CPR) are techniques used to manage the rate of pavement deterioration on concrete streets, highways and airports. Without changing concrete grade, this non-overlay method is used to repair isolated areas of distress. CPP and CPR techniques include slab stabilization, full- and partial-depth repair, dowel bar retrofit, cross stitching longitudinal cracks or joints, diamond grinding and joint and crack resealing. CPR methods, developed over the last 40 years, are utilized in lieu of short-lived asphalt overlays and bituminous patches to repair roads. These methods are often less expensive citation neededthan an asphalt overlay but last three times longer and provide a greener solution. [1]
CPR techniques can be used to address specific problems or bring a pavement back to its original quality. When repairing a road, design data, construction data, traffic data, environmental data, previous CPR activities and pavement condition, must all be taken into account. Pavements repaired using CPR methods usually last 15 years. The methods are described below.
This section is all about concrete pavements, not concrete in general - I have moved it here in case any is useful. Imgaril ( talk) 17:41, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
References
Any leads on that? I figured it would be here in this article but the subject is beyond me to research on my own. 216.183.185.138 ( talk) 15:14, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: article not moved Armbrust, B.Ed. WrestleMania XXVIII The Undertaker 20–0 06:36, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
Road surface → Paving materials – This article started out in 2003 at pavement (or some such) and somehow wound up at this name. Ignoring the UK v. US English issues, the current name is simply wrong since it includes sidewalks which are not roads. Paving materials is mentioned in that first version and might be a better name. It also avoids the problem with surfaces for vehicles versus people in the title. One other question to consider is, is a cinder track, or a tartan track pavement? If they are, it could influence the decision here. I'm raising this following comments at CfD over Category:Pavements. Vegaswikian ( talk) 18:41, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
I don't see anything specifically noted within the article. It is my strong impression that concrete considerably decreases the useful life of rubber tyres. This was shown some decades ago when a new chord of the Paris metro had a concrete trough to maintain the trains' horizontal stability. Or is that water under the bridge, so to speak? Unbuttered parsnip ( talk) mytime= Fri 17:55, wikitime= 09:55, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
Please consider using material from this draft to improve this article. ~ Kvng ( talk) 16:09, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
I see no mention here of vitrified brick, but it was at least a serious contender for road surfacing in the 1910s. See the ads at File:The Town Crier, v.12, no.15, Apr. 14, 1917 - DPLA - 48ac799d82f3c2c43eb64fba36ec96bf (page 9).jpg, File:The Town Crier, v.12, no.16, Apr. 21, 1917 - DPLA - b26a6dc6a104ee766677caae989d2a8a (page 9).jpg, and File:The Town Crier, v.12, no.25, Jun. 23, 1917 - DPLA - 173f6e6da127deb34dda1776503b2847 (page_9).jpg. - Jmabel | Talk 02:32, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Road surface article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I see that the British use of the word 'pavement' has been pushed down into it's own page entitled 'Pavement (British English)'. When there are regional variations such as this, please consider making any 'disambiguation' consistent. IE, please consider renaming this article 'Pavement (US English)'. Hopefully, do this would avoid causing offence unnecessarily.
My campaign is for a pavement to be put along all A-Road dual carriageways inb Britain to make it safer for pedestrains.
How is this comment encyclopedic? Everybody got to be somewhere! ( talk) 22:21, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
I modified the title of this section to "Pavement deterioration" and added discussion of the design process. This was added to clarify the recent behind-the-scenes controversy over pavement damage due to truck traffic. Trucks are, in point of fact, almost entirely responsible for long-term pavement distress. This is not a controversy to civil engineers.
I added reference to the new FHwA standards for completeness.
MARussellPESE 17:36, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
This is not the American term for these kinds of roads that I can tell. These are typically called macadam here, or formally: "Stabilized." Regional usage varies widely even here. I recommend modifying the title to "Stabilized" (Yes, with a "z" as this is the American pavement article. :) ) but expand the reference to include metalling, macadam, gravel, etc. I would also recommend discussing the various ways that these are stabilized: sand-clay, calcium-chloride, portland cement, bitumen, etc. Opinions are invited. MARussellPESE 17:36, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
Why is the emphasis on American road paving stated above??? Do we need to start a Worldpedia? eg. calling Roman water channels French Drain after an 1800s American is just so jingoist that I choke! Please be more factual and less parochial American. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Strider22 ( talk • contribs) 19:59, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
As an American, pavement refers to the material which cars, bicycles, and pedestrians may travel on, and not so much to the actual roadways, bicycle paths, and sidewalks themselves. Am I alone here?
does not show a new road being laid next to the old surface... the old surface has been stripped away.
It would be interesting to learn more about the history of paving technology, and the reasons why it has changed. -- Beland 00:46, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
The answer is simple. Paved roads offer better performance in a wide variety of weather conditions, especially when they are more intensely trafficked. Even so the US still has many kilometres of earth roads, far more per capita than in Europe for example. Everybody got to be somewhere! ( talk) 22:24, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
The section on concrete states "Today, a majority of the U.S. state agencies build jointed plain pavements." At least in the Northeastern US, HMA is the favored material. Should this be "Today, a majority of the U.S. state agencies that construct concrete pavement build jointed plain pavements."
Triskele Jim 20:03, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
The page Pavement (material) was moved to Road surface by Parable1991 at 14:03, 5 May 2007. This appears to be a unilateral move without prior discussion. I believe it was done against standard practice, and by someone who has a history of engaging in such acts (see past warning and user edit history). I'm going to request the page be moved back and that the user be blocked. — DragonHawk ( talk| hist) 22:45, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
There is an OECD sponsored organization AIPCR - PIARC that has worked hard to standardize terminology in the road construction field. Its recommendations are apparently ignored in this article, which so far seems to be largely drawn from US sources. Road construction is an empirical kind of activity and it is difficult if not impossible to extrapolate from one particular geographical area of expertise to another. Nonetheless a standardized English for road construction does exist as does a standardized French, German, Dutch, Spanish, Italian and Russian. The standardized glossary is available from PIARC for a small sum. Everybody got to be somewhere! ( talk) 22:19, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
I don't have any problem with examples of the various road surface types, however they need to be worded appropriately.
A line I removed was, "The Operation Division of the Ministry of Highways and Infrastructure in Saskatchewan has the responsibility of maintaining 6,102 kilometres (3,791.6 mi) of thin membrane surface"
If an example of Thin Membrane Surface is provided, it should read "There are 6,102 kilometres (3,791.6 mi) of thin membrane surface roadways in Saskatchewan"
The original phrase draws more attention on the 'responsibility of maintenance' of that road surface, and not a clear example of the road surface itself.
The same applies to the previous line under the "Granular" heading. I removed "Besides the 4,929 kilometres (3,062.7 mi) of granular pavements maintained in Saskatchewan, over 90% of New Zealand roads are unbound granular pavement structures."
I don't see the relevance of specifically mentioning roads "maintained" in Saskatchewan. I think the example written as "90% of New Zealand roads are unbound granular pavement structures" is fine, however if there's a need to cite Saskatchewan roads as well, it should focus on the example of the material and not emphasize "maintenance" of the roadways.
I think it would be more appropriate to state: "Over 90% of New Zealand roads are unbound granular pavement structures, and 4,929 kilometres (3,062.7 mi) of roads in Saskatchewan." Lowrydr310 ( talk) 18:54, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
This section lacks adequate references and contains partially substantiated material. A subject-matter expert should review the classes of deterioration systematically and provide documented sections for each. Some examples include the omission of frost-heave damage and thaw weakening, and that snow tires wear surfaces rather than cause rutting by deforming the surface. -- User:HopsonRoad 23:23, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
Unimproved road redirects to here... but there isn't any explanation or definition of what that term means. Can anyone gather together some road surface terms and give their meanings? Please include the meaning sof "unimproved" and "improved". Thanks 125.215.150.94 ( talk) 04:44, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
Concrete pavement preservation (CPP) and concrete pavement restoration (CPR) are techniques used to manage the rate of pavement deterioration on concrete streets, highways and airports. Without changing concrete grade, this non-overlay method is used to repair isolated areas of distress. CPP and CPR techniques include slab stabilization, full- and partial-depth repair, dowel bar retrofit, cross stitching longitudinal cracks or joints, diamond grinding and joint and crack resealing. CPR methods, developed over the last 40 years, are utilized in lieu of short-lived asphalt overlays and bituminous patches to repair roads. These methods are often less expensive citation neededthan an asphalt overlay but last three times longer and provide a greener solution. [1]
CPR techniques can be used to address specific problems or bring a pavement back to its original quality. When repairing a road, design data, construction data, traffic data, environmental data, previous CPR activities and pavement condition, must all be taken into account. Pavements repaired using CPR methods usually last 15 years. The methods are described below.
This section is all about concrete pavements, not concrete in general - I have moved it here in case any is useful. Imgaril ( talk) 17:41, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
References
Any leads on that? I figured it would be here in this article but the subject is beyond me to research on my own. 216.183.185.138 ( talk) 15:14, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: article not moved Armbrust, B.Ed. WrestleMania XXVIII The Undertaker 20–0 06:36, 14 July 2012 (UTC)
Road surface → Paving materials – This article started out in 2003 at pavement (or some such) and somehow wound up at this name. Ignoring the UK v. US English issues, the current name is simply wrong since it includes sidewalks which are not roads. Paving materials is mentioned in that first version and might be a better name. It also avoids the problem with surfaces for vehicles versus people in the title. One other question to consider is, is a cinder track, or a tartan track pavement? If they are, it could influence the decision here. I'm raising this following comments at CfD over Category:Pavements. Vegaswikian ( talk) 18:41, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
I don't see anything specifically noted within the article. It is my strong impression that concrete considerably decreases the useful life of rubber tyres. This was shown some decades ago when a new chord of the Paris metro had a concrete trough to maintain the trains' horizontal stability. Or is that water under the bridge, so to speak? Unbuttered parsnip ( talk) mytime= Fri 17:55, wikitime= 09:55, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
Please consider using material from this draft to improve this article. ~ Kvng ( talk) 16:09, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
I see no mention here of vitrified brick, but it was at least a serious contender for road surfacing in the 1910s. See the ads at File:The Town Crier, v.12, no.15, Apr. 14, 1917 - DPLA - 48ac799d82f3c2c43eb64fba36ec96bf (page 9).jpg, File:The Town Crier, v.12, no.16, Apr. 21, 1917 - DPLA - b26a6dc6a104ee766677caae989d2a8a (page 9).jpg, and File:The Town Crier, v.12, no.25, Jun. 23, 1917 - DPLA - 173f6e6da127deb34dda1776503b2847 (page_9).jpg. - Jmabel | Talk 02:32, 16 March 2023 (UTC)