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The old one was really a stub. AaCBrown ( talk) 00:58, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
I have issues with this article. We want to avoid WP:HOWTO and any appearance that we are giving investment advice. I'm uncomfortable with the lead being so specific about percentage gains or losses and the disclaimers and wishy washy wording violates WP:WEASEL. I think this lead and article needs some significant revision.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 23:04, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
The content below was removed because it is off topic, speculative and violates WP:OR in my opinion even though the content was created with good intentions. The relationship between the various events it highlights are not reflected in the sources as being related. In fact many of the sources do not seem mention Risk Parity. Instead I have created new content to replace it that accurately reflects sources that deal directly with Risk Parity and its history. I hope it will be a satisfactory replacement. If anyone disagrees we can discuss it and replace any content that is deemed to be reliably sourced back in to the article. Cheers!
References
Tütüncü
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Scherer2
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).I am considering removing additional content from the article. The content below contains a graphic produced by an editor and placed in the article during its early stages. I'm sure his/her actions were a good faith attempt to improve the article but the self made graphic then became a reason to add content to explain the graphic. This is also OK except that the sources used to explain the graphic do not mention Risk Parity as far as I can see. In addition, none of the articles and analysis of Risk Parity that I have read mention CAPM or discuss the Risk Parity strategy in terms of CAPM so I wonder if it is a comparion or analysis that even needs to be in the article? At present, the graphic creates a situation where the tail is wagging the dog and it appears to be Original Research WP:OR. Any thoughts from other editors?
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: SCB '92 ( talk • contribs • count) 12:25, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
Okay looking article
I wrote an original article from a stub. I think the subsequent revisions are generally misguided as they refer to a commercial product marketed by Bridgewater (the All Weather Fund) and rely entirely on research put out by that company and some fund consultants. I believe the article should concentrate on the academic idea, which is older than the Bridgewater fund and is broader. I don't believe risk parity can be explained outside a CAPM framework. I understand the objection to using hypothetical return distributions to illustrate the claims, although I did put in disclaimers. I think the original article can be rewritten to avoid them. But the current version relies far too heavily on commercial research put out to sell a product and does not do justice to the range of the risk parity ideas.
If no one objects, I'd like to remove all commercial research from this article, and replace some of my original academic citations. There is also quite a bit of new academic work as the idea has become hot. I would like to add back the CAPM interpretation, the pre-Bridgewater history and the applications other than the All Weather Fund (question: should we mention all major risk parity funds or none? I don't think mentioning only one is a good idea).
This is a major rewrite, and I don't want to do it if it is controversial. I'll wait a while for responses. I don't intend to restore my original article, just go to something halfway in between and less commercial.
AaCBrown —Preceding undated comment added 15:59, 3 March 2012 (UTC).
Hi ACBrown, thanks for your comments and prior work on the article. I am happy to collaborate with you to improve the article. Over the past year the article has been developed quite a bit and now has been reviewed by other editors and received Good Article status which only a fraction of 1% of all the articles on Wikipedia have. That doesn't mean its perfect or that it can't be improved but doing a rewrite as you have described above seems inappropriate. It would be better to choose a specific sentence or section that you feel needs improvement and discuss together. Keep in mind that Wikipedia is based on 'reliable secondary sources' regardless of how we personally feel about those sources. On the other hand if there are additional sources that support a different view or definition of the term, those can be included. Thanks again for your interest and help. Best,-- — Keithbob • Talk • 18:02, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Fair enough. My overall concern is that I believe the article has morphed from a description of the academic concept of risk parity to an account of one particular commercial implementation. Academic material has been deleted, most importantly the link to the Capital Asset Pricing Model. CAPM is an academic argument for weighting investments by market capitalization, risk parity began as an alternative argument for weighting by some measure of stand-alone risk (usually standard deviation). How can you describe the reaction without mentioning what it reacted to? I think it's also important to preserve references to related ideas which come under the general heading of robust portfolio optimization. Without these links, I'm not sure risk parity deserves an article at all, it's reduced to a marketing slogan.
One possibility is to split into two articles, one on risk parity as a theoretical model and one on risk parity as a category of investment managers, just as one could have an article on the theory and history of capitalization-weighted indexing and another on the impact of the growth of index funds on the market. However that second article should not focus entirely on one company, it should either avoid naming specific funds or include a list of all major funds. And both articles should avoid references that discuss one specific fund (and especially those written by the owners of that fund), they should rely on articles that discuss risk parity in general, ideally written by disinterested parties.
I won't do any changes myself. If you agree with my view in general, I will point out the sections I feel are most problematic in the current article, and the deletions that would be most useful to restore. If you agree, or if we can come to agreement through discussion, then one or the other of us can do the painstaking work of trying to blend the changes in while keeping the article readable. If we can't agree, then I'll just leave it alone. There are plenty of articles to write or fix on Wikipedia without controversy.
I understand that Wikipedia requires reliable secondary sources rather than original research. My complaint is not that the new sources are unreliable, but that they are narrowly commercial. You wouldn't cite a Microsoft publication on the superiority of the Windows operating system to Apple software, nor write an article on operating systems that only discussed Windows. That's no reflection on Microsoft. I think the earlier charge that CAPM and robust portfolio optimatization material were original research were not complaints about the quality of the sources or lack of sources, but claims that the sources were not about risk parity. The trouble here is that in the academic literature more than five years old, "risk parity" is a very general term. The articles all use the term, but not always in the titles. For example a paper on robust portfolio optimization might mention in the text that one of the techniques studied "sometimes goes by the name of risk parity." The version of risk parity described might differ from the Bridgewater implementation, so for someone who thinks risk parity is defined by the Bridgewater version, the paper appears irrelevant.
Another possibility is to address the issue head-on and say that the largest risk parity fund goes by the name Allweather and specifically describe the Allweather idea in particular, as well as the academic idea of risk parity in general. I don't like putting so much emphasis on a commercial product, after all people who want to learn about Allweather can go to Bridgewater's website. But if the discussion is to be included, I think it's better to do it explicitly rather than slip in mentions and possibly give the impression that Allweather is the definition of risk parity. AaCBrown ( talk) 18:54, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
"One possibility is to split into two articles, one on risk parity as a theoretical model and one on risk parity as a category of investment managers, just as one could have an article on the theory and history of capitalization-weighted indexing and another on the impact of the growth of index funds on the market."---AcBrown
So I'll leave this one alone. You're correct that the material I think is important could be put in a Robust Portfolio Optimization article. The main difference of opinion, it seems to me, is you are judging the relevance of material based on frequency of use, while I tend to consider older and more academic interpretations to be more legitimate. It's an issue that comes up a lot, whenever a technical topic starts getting marketing attention. After reading your responses, I guess "risk parity" has crossed over into the popular domain, and insisting on technical purity would now get in the way of the article. I appreciate all the time you took to respond, and also to fix the article. AaCBrown ( talk) 01:28, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
A good article is—
Criteria | Notes | Result |
---|---|---|
(a) (prose) | Seems fine in this department. |
![]() |
(b) (MoS) | The reviewer has no notes here. |
![]() |
Criteria | Notes | Result |
---|---|---|
(a) (references) | Well done here. |
![]() |
(b) (citations to reliable sources) | The reviewer has no notes here. |
![]() |
(c) (original research) | The reviewer has no notes here. |
![]() |
Notes | Result |
---|---|
The reviewer has no notes here. |
![]() |
Notes | Result |
---|---|
The reviewer has no notes here. |
![]() |
Result | Notes |
---|---|
![]() |
This article lacked the required depth that would exemplify a GA. |
Please add any related discussion here.
Hi everyone. I come here after a note was placed at WP:GAR regarding this reassessment. I do run through these occasionally so probably would have commented here eventually. It has not had any activity for over a month now and it appears the initiator is on a Wikibreak. As to the requests above the image one is not really part of the GA criteria unless there are free ones available. The broadness criteria can be a bit tricky. It must over the main aspects of a topic, but that doesn't mean that it needs to cover them all or in great detail. I don't know enough about the topic to comment too much on this, but if you give a bit more detail on what is missing that would help. 11:13, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
Please join the conversation here. -- — Keithbob • Talk • 23:35, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
Should we subject this article to peer review? Lbertolotti ( talk) 15:31, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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Risk parity. Please take a moment to review
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 02:26, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | Risk parity has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
Current status: Good article |
![]() | This article has been
mentioned by a media organization:
|
The old one was really a stub. AaCBrown ( talk) 00:58, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
I have issues with this article. We want to avoid WP:HOWTO and any appearance that we are giving investment advice. I'm uncomfortable with the lead being so specific about percentage gains or losses and the disclaimers and wishy washy wording violates WP:WEASEL. I think this lead and article needs some significant revision.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 23:04, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
The content below was removed because it is off topic, speculative and violates WP:OR in my opinion even though the content was created with good intentions. The relationship between the various events it highlights are not reflected in the sources as being related. In fact many of the sources do not seem mention Risk Parity. Instead I have created new content to replace it that accurately reflects sources that deal directly with Risk Parity and its history. I hope it will be a satisfactory replacement. If anyone disagrees we can discuss it and replace any content that is deemed to be reliably sourced back in to the article. Cheers!
References
Tütüncü
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Scherer2
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).I am considering removing additional content from the article. The content below contains a graphic produced by an editor and placed in the article during its early stages. I'm sure his/her actions were a good faith attempt to improve the article but the self made graphic then became a reason to add content to explain the graphic. This is also OK except that the sources used to explain the graphic do not mention Risk Parity as far as I can see. In addition, none of the articles and analysis of Risk Parity that I have read mention CAPM or discuss the Risk Parity strategy in terms of CAPM so I wonder if it is a comparion or analysis that even needs to be in the article? At present, the graphic creates a situation where the tail is wagging the dog and it appears to be Original Research WP:OR. Any thoughts from other editors?
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: SCB '92 ( talk • contribs • count) 12:25, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
Okay looking article
I wrote an original article from a stub. I think the subsequent revisions are generally misguided as they refer to a commercial product marketed by Bridgewater (the All Weather Fund) and rely entirely on research put out by that company and some fund consultants. I believe the article should concentrate on the academic idea, which is older than the Bridgewater fund and is broader. I don't believe risk parity can be explained outside a CAPM framework. I understand the objection to using hypothetical return distributions to illustrate the claims, although I did put in disclaimers. I think the original article can be rewritten to avoid them. But the current version relies far too heavily on commercial research put out to sell a product and does not do justice to the range of the risk parity ideas.
If no one objects, I'd like to remove all commercial research from this article, and replace some of my original academic citations. There is also quite a bit of new academic work as the idea has become hot. I would like to add back the CAPM interpretation, the pre-Bridgewater history and the applications other than the All Weather Fund (question: should we mention all major risk parity funds or none? I don't think mentioning only one is a good idea).
This is a major rewrite, and I don't want to do it if it is controversial. I'll wait a while for responses. I don't intend to restore my original article, just go to something halfway in between and less commercial.
AaCBrown —Preceding undated comment added 15:59, 3 March 2012 (UTC).
Hi ACBrown, thanks for your comments and prior work on the article. I am happy to collaborate with you to improve the article. Over the past year the article has been developed quite a bit and now has been reviewed by other editors and received Good Article status which only a fraction of 1% of all the articles on Wikipedia have. That doesn't mean its perfect or that it can't be improved but doing a rewrite as you have described above seems inappropriate. It would be better to choose a specific sentence or section that you feel needs improvement and discuss together. Keep in mind that Wikipedia is based on 'reliable secondary sources' regardless of how we personally feel about those sources. On the other hand if there are additional sources that support a different view or definition of the term, those can be included. Thanks again for your interest and help. Best,-- — Keithbob • Talk • 18:02, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
Fair enough. My overall concern is that I believe the article has morphed from a description of the academic concept of risk parity to an account of one particular commercial implementation. Academic material has been deleted, most importantly the link to the Capital Asset Pricing Model. CAPM is an academic argument for weighting investments by market capitalization, risk parity began as an alternative argument for weighting by some measure of stand-alone risk (usually standard deviation). How can you describe the reaction without mentioning what it reacted to? I think it's also important to preserve references to related ideas which come under the general heading of robust portfolio optimization. Without these links, I'm not sure risk parity deserves an article at all, it's reduced to a marketing slogan.
One possibility is to split into two articles, one on risk parity as a theoretical model and one on risk parity as a category of investment managers, just as one could have an article on the theory and history of capitalization-weighted indexing and another on the impact of the growth of index funds on the market. However that second article should not focus entirely on one company, it should either avoid naming specific funds or include a list of all major funds. And both articles should avoid references that discuss one specific fund (and especially those written by the owners of that fund), they should rely on articles that discuss risk parity in general, ideally written by disinterested parties.
I won't do any changes myself. If you agree with my view in general, I will point out the sections I feel are most problematic in the current article, and the deletions that would be most useful to restore. If you agree, or if we can come to agreement through discussion, then one or the other of us can do the painstaking work of trying to blend the changes in while keeping the article readable. If we can't agree, then I'll just leave it alone. There are plenty of articles to write or fix on Wikipedia without controversy.
I understand that Wikipedia requires reliable secondary sources rather than original research. My complaint is not that the new sources are unreliable, but that they are narrowly commercial. You wouldn't cite a Microsoft publication on the superiority of the Windows operating system to Apple software, nor write an article on operating systems that only discussed Windows. That's no reflection on Microsoft. I think the earlier charge that CAPM and robust portfolio optimatization material were original research were not complaints about the quality of the sources or lack of sources, but claims that the sources were not about risk parity. The trouble here is that in the academic literature more than five years old, "risk parity" is a very general term. The articles all use the term, but not always in the titles. For example a paper on robust portfolio optimization might mention in the text that one of the techniques studied "sometimes goes by the name of risk parity." The version of risk parity described might differ from the Bridgewater implementation, so for someone who thinks risk parity is defined by the Bridgewater version, the paper appears irrelevant.
Another possibility is to address the issue head-on and say that the largest risk parity fund goes by the name Allweather and specifically describe the Allweather idea in particular, as well as the academic idea of risk parity in general. I don't like putting so much emphasis on a commercial product, after all people who want to learn about Allweather can go to Bridgewater's website. But if the discussion is to be included, I think it's better to do it explicitly rather than slip in mentions and possibly give the impression that Allweather is the definition of risk parity. AaCBrown ( talk) 18:54, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
"One possibility is to split into two articles, one on risk parity as a theoretical model and one on risk parity as a category of investment managers, just as one could have an article on the theory and history of capitalization-weighted indexing and another on the impact of the growth of index funds on the market."---AcBrown
So I'll leave this one alone. You're correct that the material I think is important could be put in a Robust Portfolio Optimization article. The main difference of opinion, it seems to me, is you are judging the relevance of material based on frequency of use, while I tend to consider older and more academic interpretations to be more legitimate. It's an issue that comes up a lot, whenever a technical topic starts getting marketing attention. After reading your responses, I guess "risk parity" has crossed over into the popular domain, and insisting on technical purity would now get in the way of the article. I appreciate all the time you took to respond, and also to fix the article. AaCBrown ( talk) 01:28, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
A good article is—
Criteria | Notes | Result |
---|---|---|
(a) (prose) | Seems fine in this department. |
![]() |
(b) (MoS) | The reviewer has no notes here. |
![]() |
Criteria | Notes | Result |
---|---|---|
(a) (references) | Well done here. |
![]() |
(b) (citations to reliable sources) | The reviewer has no notes here. |
![]() |
(c) (original research) | The reviewer has no notes here. |
![]() |
Notes | Result |
---|---|
The reviewer has no notes here. |
![]() |
Notes | Result |
---|---|
The reviewer has no notes here. |
![]() |
Result | Notes |
---|---|
![]() |
This article lacked the required depth that would exemplify a GA. |
Please add any related discussion here.
Hi everyone. I come here after a note was placed at WP:GAR regarding this reassessment. I do run through these occasionally so probably would have commented here eventually. It has not had any activity for over a month now and it appears the initiator is on a Wikibreak. As to the requests above the image one is not really part of the GA criteria unless there are free ones available. The broadness criteria can be a bit tricky. It must over the main aspects of a topic, but that doesn't mean that it needs to cover them all or in great detail. I don't know enough about the topic to comment too much on this, but if you give a bit more detail on what is missing that would help. 11:13, 14 February 2013 (UTC)
Please join the conversation here. -- — Keithbob • Talk • 23:35, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
Should we subject this article to peer review? Lbertolotti ( talk) 15:31, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Risk parity. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 02:26, 2 March 2016 (UTC)