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Rhinelanders try to build up a Ripuarian Wikipedia. If you can speak or understand ripuarian, please help! The discussion can be found here. Dbach 13:00, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
A Ripuarian Wiki has been founded externally, plz don't use the page mentioned above any more. Dbach 14:45, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
Please support the Ripuarian/Kölsch Wikipedia on Metawiki. -- Purodha Blissenbach 04:46, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
Hoi, according to http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=ksh the code ksh is reserved exclusively for Kölsch. I do not think it great to call something with a code that it is not. GerardM 09:55, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
anybody got any useful links or info, like maybe language stats, infobox.
Number of speekers? Qrc2006 19:01, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
It has been suggested to merge this article with the article on the Wikipedia of Ripuarian languages.
This is complete nonsense. A language group and a Wikipedia are two so different things, far apart from each other, that you cannot have one useful article. Trying to make one would end up with 2 sections: (a) the language group (b) the Wikipedia and its history. How strange is that?
There is a policy to have an article on each Wikipedia (see List of Wikipedias) and there is another policy to have an article on each language or language group. Lets stick with that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rentenirer ( talk • contribs) 11:58, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Moved from the article as uncourced and contradicting:
google books doesn't have any reliable source for any of the two names, and it would be surprising, if the native speakers would prefer names for their specific subdialect like Kölsch, Bönnsch ( [1]), Öcher Platt, ... - 80.133.98.23 ( talk) 01:22, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
I am not here to advocate for anything except consistency.
There are language naming inconsistencies between this article, categories, templates and MediaWiki:
ksh
– this is disputed; see
Talk:Ripuarian language § Kölsch = ksh
ksh
refers to the language name 'Kölsch'ksh
refers to the language name 'Kölsch'{{#language:ksh|en}}
→ Colognian{{
ksh icon}}
→ (in Kölsch) (deprecated; to be replaced with {{
in lang|ksh}}
– see
TfD)
{{
Link language|ksh|cat-lang=Colognian}}
{{
link language|ksh}}
→ (in Kölsch)
{{in lang|ksh}}
→ (in Kölsch) (replaces {{ksh icon}}
)
{{
lang|ksh|text}}
→ text (has a tool tip that reads: 'Ripuarian language text')
{{
lang-ksh|text}}
→
Kölsch: text
|language=ksh
, |language=Colognian
, |language=Kölsch
, or |language=Ripuarian
:
{{cite book |title=Title |language=ksh}}
→ Title (in Kölsch).
{{cite book |title=Title |language=Colognian}}
→ Title (in Colognian).
{{cite book |title=Title |language=Kölsch}}
→ Title (in Kölsch).
{{cite book |title=Title |language=Ripuarian}}
→ Title (in Ripuarian).
Of the above, we can do nothing about MediaWiki. For the others, we can standardize on one of 'Colognian' or 'Kölsch', and / or 'Ripuarian' and modify the templates, categories, and article as necessary.
{{ksh icon}}
, {{link language}}
, {{in lang}}
, {{lang}}
, and {{lang-ksh}}
all rely on
Module:Lang which overrides the IANA / ISO 639 code-to-name definition (Kölsch) in
Module:Language/data/wp languages (Ripuarian) – the provenance of that module is unknown
ksh
for either of 'Colognian' or 'Kölsch' and desirable to have a code specific to 'Ripuarian', in Module:lang/data, create a private
IETF language tag, perhaps mis-x-ripuar
, to specifically identify 'Ripurian' in the various Module:Lang-based templates ('Colognian' or 'Kölsch' handled as described above){{ksh icon}}
, though deprecated, is modified to remove |cat-lang=Colognian
as redundant or wrongConsistency matters. Article name should match category names should match template renderings. So the question is:
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 17:13, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
A month on, and there having been no comment, these decisions:
ksh
– reserved for Kölsch per IANA and ISO 639-3mis-x-colog
– created for Colognianmis-x-ripuar
– created for Ripuarian— Trappist the monk ( talk) 15:26, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
ksh
is clearly derived from the word Kölsch, which the standard gives as the
autonym of the language designated by that code. The English primary name of the ksh
language is, however, Ripuarian.
Love —
LiliCharlie (
talk)
20:38, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
ksh
is the correct ISO 639-3 code for Ripuarian including Colognian (=Kölsch), as is yue
for Yue Chinese including Cantonese. (Per "Denotation" links on
iso639-3.sil.org/code/ksh, particularly
www.ethnologue.com/language/ksh.) Colognian proper could be assigned a private-use subcode of ksh
, e.g. ksh-stdrd
("Standard Ripuarian"), ksh-kolsh
or ksh-colog
(though ksh-colon
might be the better choice, as the spelling Colonian instead of Colognian is attested). Another conclusion is that it is not in line with ISO 639-3 to use the code mis
("Uncoded languages") or an extension of that code for Ripuarian or one of its varieties.
Love —
LiliCharlie (
talk)
00:03, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
ksh
with Ripuarian or had they determined that Ripuarian should have its own code, they would not have associated ksh
with Kölsch. Because the ISO 639-3 custodians have not elected to 'code' Ripuarian, for our use here, Ripuarian is an uncoded language so the private IETF tag mis-x-ripuar
is appropriate. If you disagree with the custodian's decisions, you should take the issue up with them.mis-x-colog
for Colognian, we might use ksh-x-colog
– colog
because the en.wiki article is
Colognian dialect (with the 'g').I just noticed that Low Dietsch has been turned into a redirect towards this article. I doubt whether this is the best solution. The two language varieties are apparently very similar, but I think they still shouldn't be treated as if no difference exists between them at all. See as well d:Q151156, where separate articles about Low Dietsch exist both on Wikipedia-fr and Wikipedia-nl.
Another issue in this context: for the last two days, two IPs (I suppose they're actually the same) have removed several internal links to Low Dietsch ( example). De Wikischim ( talk) 22:49, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
Rhinelanders try to build up a Ripuarian Wikipedia. If you can speak or understand ripuarian, please help! The discussion can be found here. Dbach 13:00, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
A Ripuarian Wiki has been founded externally, plz don't use the page mentioned above any more. Dbach 14:45, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
Please support the Ripuarian/Kölsch Wikipedia on Metawiki. -- Purodha Blissenbach 04:46, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
Hoi, according to http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=ksh the code ksh is reserved exclusively for Kölsch. I do not think it great to call something with a code that it is not. GerardM 09:55, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
anybody got any useful links or info, like maybe language stats, infobox.
Number of speekers? Qrc2006 19:01, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
It has been suggested to merge this article with the article on the Wikipedia of Ripuarian languages.
This is complete nonsense. A language group and a Wikipedia are two so different things, far apart from each other, that you cannot have one useful article. Trying to make one would end up with 2 sections: (a) the language group (b) the Wikipedia and its history. How strange is that?
There is a policy to have an article on each Wikipedia (see List of Wikipedias) and there is another policy to have an article on each language or language group. Lets stick with that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rentenirer ( talk • contribs) 11:58, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
Moved from the article as uncourced and contradicting:
google books doesn't have any reliable source for any of the two names, and it would be surprising, if the native speakers would prefer names for their specific subdialect like Kölsch, Bönnsch ( [1]), Öcher Platt, ... - 80.133.98.23 ( talk) 01:22, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
I am not here to advocate for anything except consistency.
There are language naming inconsistencies between this article, categories, templates and MediaWiki:
ksh
– this is disputed; see
Talk:Ripuarian language § Kölsch = ksh
ksh
refers to the language name 'Kölsch'ksh
refers to the language name 'Kölsch'{{#language:ksh|en}}
→ Colognian{{
ksh icon}}
→ (in Kölsch) (deprecated; to be replaced with {{
in lang|ksh}}
– see
TfD)
{{
Link language|ksh|cat-lang=Colognian}}
{{
link language|ksh}}
→ (in Kölsch)
{{in lang|ksh}}
→ (in Kölsch) (replaces {{ksh icon}}
)
{{
lang|ksh|text}}
→ text (has a tool tip that reads: 'Ripuarian language text')
{{
lang-ksh|text}}
→
Kölsch: text
|language=ksh
, |language=Colognian
, |language=Kölsch
, or |language=Ripuarian
:
{{cite book |title=Title |language=ksh}}
→ Title (in Kölsch).
{{cite book |title=Title |language=Colognian}}
→ Title (in Colognian).
{{cite book |title=Title |language=Kölsch}}
→ Title (in Kölsch).
{{cite book |title=Title |language=Ripuarian}}
→ Title (in Ripuarian).
Of the above, we can do nothing about MediaWiki. For the others, we can standardize on one of 'Colognian' or 'Kölsch', and / or 'Ripuarian' and modify the templates, categories, and article as necessary.
{{ksh icon}}
, {{link language}}
, {{in lang}}
, {{lang}}
, and {{lang-ksh}}
all rely on
Module:Lang which overrides the IANA / ISO 639 code-to-name definition (Kölsch) in
Module:Language/data/wp languages (Ripuarian) – the provenance of that module is unknown
ksh
for either of 'Colognian' or 'Kölsch' and desirable to have a code specific to 'Ripuarian', in Module:lang/data, create a private
IETF language tag, perhaps mis-x-ripuar
, to specifically identify 'Ripurian' in the various Module:Lang-based templates ('Colognian' or 'Kölsch' handled as described above){{ksh icon}}
, though deprecated, is modified to remove |cat-lang=Colognian
as redundant or wrongConsistency matters. Article name should match category names should match template renderings. So the question is:
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 17:13, 5 October 2019 (UTC)
A month on, and there having been no comment, these decisions:
ksh
– reserved for Kölsch per IANA and ISO 639-3mis-x-colog
– created for Colognianmis-x-ripuar
– created for Ripuarian— Trappist the monk ( talk) 15:26, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
ksh
is clearly derived from the word Kölsch, which the standard gives as the
autonym of the language designated by that code. The English primary name of the ksh
language is, however, Ripuarian.
Love —
LiliCharlie (
talk)
20:38, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
ksh
is the correct ISO 639-3 code for Ripuarian including Colognian (=Kölsch), as is yue
for Yue Chinese including Cantonese. (Per "Denotation" links on
iso639-3.sil.org/code/ksh, particularly
www.ethnologue.com/language/ksh.) Colognian proper could be assigned a private-use subcode of ksh
, e.g. ksh-stdrd
("Standard Ripuarian"), ksh-kolsh
or ksh-colog
(though ksh-colon
might be the better choice, as the spelling Colonian instead of Colognian is attested). Another conclusion is that it is not in line with ISO 639-3 to use the code mis
("Uncoded languages") or an extension of that code for Ripuarian or one of its varieties.
Love —
LiliCharlie (
talk)
00:03, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
ksh
with Ripuarian or had they determined that Ripuarian should have its own code, they would not have associated ksh
with Kölsch. Because the ISO 639-3 custodians have not elected to 'code' Ripuarian, for our use here, Ripuarian is an uncoded language so the private IETF tag mis-x-ripuar
is appropriate. If you disagree with the custodian's decisions, you should take the issue up with them.mis-x-colog
for Colognian, we might use ksh-x-colog
– colog
because the en.wiki article is
Colognian dialect (with the 'g').I just noticed that Low Dietsch has been turned into a redirect towards this article. I doubt whether this is the best solution. The two language varieties are apparently very similar, but I think they still shouldn't be treated as if no difference exists between them at all. See as well d:Q151156, where separate articles about Low Dietsch exist both on Wikipedia-fr and Wikipedia-nl.
Another issue in this context: for the last two days, two IPs (I suppose they're actually the same) have removed several internal links to Low Dietsch ( example). De Wikischim ( talk) 22:49, 22 July 2023 (UTC)