This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I added that Irish were poorer (not always but most of the times), while English immigrants came from the upper classes. And I changed not great for not as great as the Italian because more than half a million irish descendents are indeed a considerable number in a country of 35 million people.
THERE ARE NO SPANISH DIALECTS EXEPT LUNFARDO. American English is not a dialect and British English is not a dialect, nor is Australian.
That one who wrote the article is a beast that Doesn't know a word about Spanish.
"That is, in Rioplatense, se cayó "he fell down" is homophonous with se calló "he became silent"." Even if this is true, this homophony is too common in spoken spanish to be considered privative of Rioplatense Spanish. The words "calló" and "cayó" are also homophonous and frecuently pronounced "caió" in most spanish speaking countries, and the distinction beetween ll and y is more the exception (e.g. Paraguay) than the rule. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.96.66.41 ( talk) 17:33, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
The sound sample found in
voiced palatal approximant does not correspond with Río de la Plata yeism. Could someone more knowledgable verify it?
Ejrrjs |
What? 18:28, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
Well, I guess it's ok now. The only thing bodering me is that the aspirated s between vowels is not exactly a
voiceless glottal fricative, since it's a sound made far ahead, right behind the teeth, that seams not to bee among the IPA ones. Never mind, close enough.
By the way, the between-words aspiration of s ("te vua deja lo/h/ojo asi") is actually not Rioplatense at all. It's used in the south of Argentina (which are also said to speak Rioplatense spanish, as the use yeísmo), and in other provinces such as Cordoba, Catamarca, Salta, etc. as a matter of fact, I believe it's used all over argentina exept perhaps for the Chaco-Litoral Provinces (Misiones, Entre Rios, Corrientes, Chaco, Formosa). -- Marianocecowski 14:03, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
Aspiration of -s even when the following word begins with a vowel is found throughout the Spanish-speaking Americas, and is especially complete in and around the Caribbean. I didn't know it was also in Argentina. But anyways, I wanted to ask, do people down there also say "nojótroj"? Tomer TALK 17:33, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)
OK, can someone explain this to me? I have never heard, at least amongst well-educated people, the omision of the S-sound. I know that the aspiration of S happens quite often as in the word "mismo" which is generally pronunced something like [mih'mo] but the omission of the S-sound is something I generally don't hear. I've heard the homeless and the shantytown people talk like that (villeros) and tumberos speaking like that especially when they use the negative 2nd person verb voice. Instead of no vengas/vengás, no vengá. Does the omision of the S-sound really happen as often as the article states? Thanks for your help
As you sid(Lo) Usuario:AleG
Regarding the statement that "Residents of Spain tend to note such Italian intonation more easily than people from nearby regions", I would have thought that Rioplatense's Italian intonation would be quite evident for all Spanish-speakers; it is to me, and I'm Mexican. I don't know, but in my opinion the quoted statement adds little value to the article.-- Agurza 22:31, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
English is my every-day language (I live in Canada), but Italian is my mother tongue and I am fluent and current (standard and dialect). I have studied some Spanish and have travelled in much of the Spanish-speaking world (Spain, Mexico and parts of South America). Since I am not fluent in Spanish, I always found it easier to converse with locals in my mixed Italian-Spanish (slowly, of course). Even in remote parts of the Yucatán, this worked well. Several years ago, I paid a visit to Chile and Argentina. When I crossed the border on my travels towards Mendoza, I found my "Italian-Spanish" seemed to be coming out of everyone's mouths. I am exagerating my sentiment, of course, but the point I wish to make is that the sounds seemed very familiar to me. I cannot explain this in linguistic terms, but the Spanish suddenly sounded very "Italian". 207.6.233.239 22:59, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
i AM ITALIAN. I SPEAK A GOOD SPANISH. bUT WHEN I AM IN SPAIN, AND WHEN I HAVE BEEN IN MEXICO CITY, THEY HAVE ASK ME IF I WAS FROM ARGENTINA..
I'm colombian, from Barranquilla,with italian parents, and i knew many argentians in Miami, and I can tell u that their sound is like one italian is trying to speack spanish.Their language sound 100% italian.Also as they move face and hands ( gesticulation)is very italian, that is nothing latino.Of course they cannot notice that because for argentians to speak and gesticulate as one italian is the normal way life..But every spanish or latino, that is not fron Argentina notice their strong italian intonation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.49.160.162 ( talk) 23:36, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
I believe the Guaraní word gurí to be an important lunfardo word, found in a lot of tangos, and a clear example of native influece.
Link: Lunfardo G -- Mariano 14:14, 2005 Jun 3 (UTC)
I'm Uruguayan and the word gurí is widely used here. Mostly outside Montevideo, but in Montevideo is also used. Actually, I'm a 26 year old boy borned in Montevideo, and I and my friends still use gurí. About the comment "probably at least 15 million Rioplatense speakers do not use gurí", please don't be disrespectful, even though we have just 3 million inhabitants, Uruguay is an independent country. It's obvious that manners only common in Uruguay won't represent most Rioplatense speakers, but I think they should be taken into account. Pablo FG ( talk) 03:55, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Regarding the issue of the final -s in the preterite... What do you call it? Is it a remnant of the Spanish vosotros form, formed in the same way as other forms? Or is it hypercorrection? I'd like to know what (sub)dialects feature it. I have the impression that it's much more common, say, in Buenos Aires than it is in Rosario (where it sounds distinctively affected). -- Pablo D. Flores 15:14, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
Is this a technical term? I'm but an amateur of linguistics, but I'm afaid it is not.
Ejrrjs | What? 10:13, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
I wrote "ways". Im not linguistic, im underage and have no idea ot "technical" terms, but surely the one who worte the article has't even suspected that "rioplatense" couldn't be a dialect. The main argument they had to say it is a dialect is the use of 2 different "persons" (vos; ustedes) but, as I said, they dont even suspect that they are also part of the "correct" "real" "iberian" spanish. Vos is an archaism used to invocate really important people (the Pope, the King/Emperor and God himself) and was more than saying "your royal higness". In Spain is used only in the churches. It is widely used in Argentina and Uruguay because the conquerors wanted to be called in such an honorable way, in fact they talked to each other as they were an army of kings, and all the "natives" learned the "vos" form. In the other hand you have "ustedes", it is the spanish plural for "usted"", a formal pronoun (like german "Sie" or italian "lei"). It is used for the same reason, as there isn't a plural for "vos". Now we have differences of pronunctiation and some words, but it is the same difference that have british, american, australian, maltese et cetera englishes. – Argentino 22:27, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Calm down.
Argentino 00:02, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Yesterday i hadn't so much time, you see. I used the same arguments a 292–years–old istitution ( RAE) with hundreds of linguistics working for it and 21 linguistics academys (for many iberoamerican states + philippines and USA) associated to it, used for the last 100 years to determinate that there are no spanish dialects exept lunfardo. I know. I have no sources. I cannot scan the RAE's dictionary in the part that says it because it is a huge book impossible to scan, and it is illegal; so we are in the same condition we were when we started, you can just "trust me" but if i were you i wouldnt trust anyone i've never met. – Argentino 10:30, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
It says more or less the same i said before but it is 3 pages long including examples. im studyng right now. Argentino 17:45, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
I've reverted (twice) the additions by 201.151.69.13 ( talk · contribs) claiming that Rioplatense is spoken in Nicaragua and Costa Rica. The second time, this user added some arguments about immigration and relationship between the countries that seem rather inconsequential, at the very least. I've left a note on the user's talk page. If you're reading this, please raise the issue here; do not edit the article directly to reflect your personal view of the matter. -- Pablo D. Flores ( Talk) 21:56, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the phonetics terms but it seems like the article implies the exact opposite of what it should when it comes to the LL sound which, from my limited experience with speakers of the argentinian dialect, its most pronounced feature. The "normal" (castillian?) pronounciation of the word calle in english is pronounced as 'cai-yay' but in argentinian it is 'cai-jay.' (perhaps a little softer then english jay, more like the j sound in french 'jean') The article seems to make a big deal of giving the opposite message. Someone please correct me if i'm wrong here. -- Cptbuck 07:20, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
The difference between a dialect and a language is usually a political, not a linguistic, one. Someone once said, "A language is a dialect with an army and a navy." In Germany and Italy, regional languages that are completely incomprehensible to people from other regions are called "dialects" because they are all spoken in the same country. "Ladino" or "Judeo-Spanish" is often called a dialect of Spanish, but speakers of modern Spanish understand it as well as they understand the Spanish of someone from another Hispanic country.
The adding of "s" to the tú form of the preterit ("perdistes") is heard from uneducated speakers in all parts of the Spanish-speaking world. It is probably added by analogy with the other verb tenses in Spanish, all of which have an "s" at the end of the tú form: pierdes, perdías, perderás, perderías.
Too much of what has been said here is impressionistic. "To me it sounds like this," and "to me it sounds like that." Studies have been done with oscilloscopes and other gadgets to scientifically compare these sounds. Other statements wreak of patriotism: "Argentinean Spanish flows, while Mexican Spanish is consonantal and stress-timed." Anyone who thinks that Mexican Spanish is stress-timed has not lived surrounded by Mexicans, all rat-tat-tatting away like machine guns. Since I am often in the company of English-speakers and Spanish-speakers (mostly Mexican) at the same time, the difference between the rhythm patterns of the two languages is astounding.
-- 70.146.2.8 02:58, 27 December 2005 (UTC)Gerald Young
Yo ya sabía cuando escribí mi mensaje que no valía la pena. Adiós, y que se quede feliz, Sr. Flores, en su ignorancia.-- 70.146.2.8 20:34, 27 December 2005 (UTC)Gerald Young
I don't know, but Si te querés ir, andate. Yo no te voy a parar. sounds more natural to me... User:Ejrrjs says What? 23:01, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
R ELISION? That's a characteristic of our spanish? God, this is mad. Average people don't talk like that guy, hah. We usually don't omit any 'r' or 's'.
I just wanted to point out that the audio clip isn't very representative of how you would hear that sentence on the street, even when interacting with someone who has a less privileged educational background. Usually, the final s is either pronounced or aspirated at the very least, and that does not come through in the clip. It sounds much more Chileno than Rioplatense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.18.253.56 ( talk) 22:52, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
There's a fact about Rioplatense Spanish that might worth mention: Some verbs don't have an own imperative mode and actually "borrow" it from other verbs. Here you have some examples (actually maybe all). I write the infinitve of the verb itself, followed by the infinitive of the verb whose imperative is borrowed: Oír (to hear)/ escuchar (to listen); ver (to see)/ mirar (to look at); ir (to go)/ andar (eh...uhm...to move?). For instance, what in Rioplatense Spanish is said si querés irte, andate; in standard Spanish would be si quieres irte, vete (using the very same verb). Also note that mirar and escuchar frequently replace ver and oír in other modes as well. So, does it deserve mention?-- Cloviz 17:45, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Word-final Rioplatense clitics receive stress in a manner that is very different from the other Latin American dialects, making them sound as if they were free morphemes -- does anyone know anything about this phenomenon? I just know from having grown up next to Argentinian neighbors and watching Argentinian shows for decades: What in my Lima dialect I would pronounce as cállate /káyate/ is pronounced callá té /kashá/ + /te/ and this stress pattern holds for all suffixed personal pronouns in the infinitive and imperative (i.e. tenseless) conjugations. It'd be interesting to see if there is research out there that shows the dialect's clitics have been transformed into "free" pronouns that simply change place but are not suffixed as they are in the majority of Spanish dialects. I'm gonna look into it but if anyone knows more about this than I do please enlighten me :) -- Rcgy 15:26, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
I've restored the link to the Argentine slang dictionary (which was deleted here because the link was dead). I'm letting it be known because, as some of the editors of this page know, it is my dictionary (it was on a borrowed domain that somebody forgot to renew). I wasn't the one to link to it in the first place, but I guess it is useful, so I uploaded it again. — Pablo D. Flores ( Talk) 02:08, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
The first line of the article says "castellano rioplatense" but omits "español rioplatense". In this case, the more adequate term should be the one used in the regions where Rioplatense is spoken. Many teachers would say "castellano", others "español", others that they are synonyms, and a small minority that the RAE oficially describes the language as "español". But at least here in Montevideo, people would never say "la extranjera que vino ayer no habla castellano" but "la extranjera que vino ayer no habla español". Here, most people knows that word but never uses it. Would someone explain how it is in Colonia, Paysandú, Capital, Gran Buenos Aires, Rosario, Santa Fe or elsewhere? -- NaBUru38 19:57, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
- Espero que veas or Espero que veas "I hope you can see" (Peninsular veáis) A diacritic is missing, or else there is no difference beetween both examples. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.96.66.41 ( talk) 17:43, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Reading this article one gets the impression that Uruguayans use "tú" and "vos" indistinctly or even randomly. This is not so. Actually, Uruguayan Spanish has a ternary second-person pronoun system:
VOS: Informal and intimate. Used between siblings, very close friends, etc.
TÚ: Informal, but not intimate. Used, for instance, by a shopkeeper adressing a customer and not wanting to sound too stiff, by two young people meeting for the first time, etc.
USTED: Formal. Used between an employer and an employee, or between a civil servant and someone from the public, for instance.
Please check this out and find appropriate sources, but if you don't, PLEASE reword the article so as not to convey the idea that VOS and TÚ are interchangeable in Uruguay. -- 200.43.37.44 18:39, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
The several of the examples cited in the chart that compares Rioplatense to Castillian are not representative of Rioplatense in specific, but American Spanish overall. For example, the words durazno, papa, and celular are used in place of the castillian melocotón, patata, and movíl in every South American country I have visited (Peru, Bolivia, Argentina, Uruguay, Chile--and the dialects of Peru Bolivia and Chile are not considered Rioplatense) as well as by Mexican friends of mine (Mexican Spanish is not Rioplatense). Perhaps words need to be chosen that represent the distinct vocabulary of Rioplatense, and these examples could be used in an article which contrasts American Spanish with European Spanish.
Additionally, having lived in Spain for some time, the word used for tie is typically corbata. Joshua Crowgey 20:29, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, I looked at that chart again and I noticed some other examples where the word that should exemplify Rioplatense is actually an 'Americanism' used all over South and Central America. Here's that chart again, with my comments.
Rioplatense | Castilian | English (US/ UK) |
---|---|---|
durazno (American) | melocotón (Spanish) | peach |
damasco (I'm unfamiliar with this word | albaricoque (unfamiliar) | apricot |
frutilla (unfamiliar, perhaps a great example of Rioplatense) | fresa (Spain, Peru, Mexico, Bolivia, Chile) | strawberry |
papa (all over America) | patata (Spain) | potato |
poroto (Many S.A. and C.A. countries = frijol) | judía (also alubia is a common word for bean in Spain | bean |
pulóver (peruvians say polo) | jersey (spanish often say camisa or camiseta if not refereing to a sport's jersey, most spanish say el suéter for a sweater) | sweater / pullover |
moño (this is literally the word for 'bow' and is used in S.A. to mean bowtie | pajarita | necktie (these are the words for a bowtie, not a necktie; necktie is corbata) |
celular (everywhere in america) | móvil (Spain) | cell phone / mobile |
computadora (everywhere in america) | ordenador (spain) | computer |
baúl (used in Peru) | maletero (Spain, possibly elsewhere) | (car) trunk / boot |
valija (unfamiliar, poss. rioplatense) | maleta (spain, peru) | luggage or suitcase |
pollera (unfamiliar) | falda (spain, peru, etc.) | skirt |
ricota | requesón | ricotta cheese |
Joshua Crowgey 16:56, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
I'd be interested in seeing an Italian or Neapolitan column, just to see how close the words are to it as well, given the history of its influence. Any takers? -- MartinezMD ( talk) 07:46, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
About this:
"
"
Well in argentina, the "buzos" are made of cotton, and the "pulóveres/pulóvers" are made of wool. That's basically the diference :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.212.239.224 ( talk) 12:07, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
I see one is immediately redirected to this page when one enters "Argentine Spanish". But as it seems, Rioplatense is only the variant of some parts of Argentina...what about the rest of the country? What accent zone do these regions fit into? LightPhoenix ( talk) 10:00, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
The "Rioplatense Spanish" is not only Rioplatense. It's talked all around Argentina. What happens is that on the frontiers, the cultural exchange varied the lenguage used in those areas. Example: In Misiones people talk "portuñol" (a mix between postuguese and spanish) because there's a frontier between Brazil and Argentina. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.212.239.224 ( talk) 12:12, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Kotabatubara ( talk) 19:47, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
This article continues the INSANE Wikipedia delusion that there are "dialects" of Spanish. While the technical trivial differences in expression so painstakingly detailed in the text may be interesting, if you speak Spanish from ANY part of the world, you can go to ANY part of Argentina, and if they are speaking Spanish, IT'S THE SAME LANGUAGE! Perfectly understandable, even if you call a peach something different, it's only a regional idiosyncratic term, and wouldn't throw you off kilter any more than a Southern US person telling a person from Illinois that Jewfish is on the menu. It only takes a second to learn that it's a Grouper, and it's not a dialect, for Pete's sake! Someone needs to take control of this issue. It's Wiki-wide, and it's wrong. I know. I'm from Puerto Rico, a native Spanish speaker, and I've been to numerous countries in Latin America, South America, and Spain. IT'S ALL THE SAME LANGUAGE! GEEZ! I've even had people here in the US argue with me! They so authoritatively try to tell me that if I speak "Puerto Rican Spanish" I can't understand someone from Spain or Bolivia! I can't talk them out of it! (Probably because they've read it in Wikipedia). It's an ignorant contention, and I'm not sure what the genesis of it is. Wikipedia should NOT be perpetuating this fiction. 98.170.200.68 ( talk) 05:14, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
Definition time: "Linguists use the term 'dialect' to denote patterns in the way people use language. These patterns include pronunciation (or 'accent'), vocabulary and grammatical structures that reflect the user's cultural and regional backgrounds." Walt Wolfram (2002). "Everyone Has an Accent" in (Brenda Miller Power and Ruth Shagoury Hubbard, Eds.) Language Development: A Reader for Teachers. Therefore, Spanish does have dialects and Rioplatense is one of them. Craig Hughes —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.250.180.74 ( talk) 18:38, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
Given that Rioplatense Spanish is just a regional speech in Argentina, this article shouldn't be linked from Argentina infobox as representive of the whole of -or even the standard- Spanish spoken in Argentina. -- IANVS ( talk) 22:08, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Why was the page title changed? First, it's nonsensical since "Castellane" is not even an English word. Second, it's totally inconsistent with the material inside the article (which uses, correctly, "Rioplatense Spanish"), but also with the wikipages in other languages (check the use in French, German, for instance). Can we please go back to the previous title, and changed accordingly all other associated links? Nordisk varg ( talk) 19:00, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
In Argentina the "salchicha" is always a "salchicha", the "hot dog" is "pancho". So I've just changed the spanish word "salchicha" to "perro caliente", that is the used in Spain to say "hot dog". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.85.6.27 ( talk) 00:51, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
We say salchicha in my household, which includes Bs.As. and Mendocinos. I reverted unless there is a better source.-- MartinezMD ( talk) 03:08, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
You say salchicha when you mean sausage, but if you want to say hot dog, the word used in Argentina and Uruguay is "pancho". See the articles here in Wikipedia. You can't mean a hot dog (perro caliente in Spain) saying just "salchicha".
Me. A rioplatense in Spain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.85.6.27 ( talk) 20:40, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
A perro caliente is a direct but inaccurate translation. A "pancho" would be an accurate alternative. Also, is a hot dog not a specific type of sausage? That would make 'salchicha' accurate as well. -- MartinezMD ( talk) 21:32, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
No sé si hablás español, pero a lo mejor me hago entender así. Lo que quiero decir es que en el cuadro se muestran las distintas palabras usadas para designar un mismo elemento. En este caso el "pancho", de uso rioplatense. Un "pancho", en España (Andalucía) y México, es un "Perro Caliente", no una salchicha, porque la salchicha no es más que parte del perro caliente. Además que una salchicha española, en Argentina y Uruguay también es una salchicha.
Por eso, si se va a poner la traducción de salchicha, que se ponga salchicha en Rioplatense y Sausage en inglés, o sino, si se está explicando como se dice Pancho en otros idiomas (ahí está bien HotDog para los angloparlantes) que se ponga Perro Caliente, que es como se le llama en México y España.
Esto es comprobable, acá mismo en Wikipedia, buscando los artículos de "Perro Caliente" y "Salchicha". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.85.6.27 ( talk) 23:13, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
The aspiration of the 's' between or at the end of words is a quite carachteristic feature for rioplatense speech, I know. But its use is not at all a near universal (as this article appears to suggest) nor the standard. In fact, for the majority of educated speakers it is just a purposefully idiosincratic exaggeration of the speech. I think that this article has to state the minority status of this linguistic feature. At least, I would like to see some sources backing the current attribution of a standard status for it. Salut, -- IANVS ( talk) 03:48, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
The article has been changed to include Santa Fe among the main cities in the Argentine side of the area. I just want to point out that the map on the page leaves Santa Fe outside. I understand the map may be qualitative, but I would like to check with someone from Santa Fe province about this. While I know Rosario's dialect is the same as that of Buenos Aires and La Plata, much of the interior of Santa Fe province speaks differently. I'm not sure what happens in Santa Fe capital. Can anyone confirm whether this city should be included? Nordisk varg ( talk) 17:14, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
http://ar.answers.yahoo.com This Yahoo! Answers implementation does use Rioplatense Spanish :) Preguntá! Rispondé! Descubrí! I dunno if it's too much "advertising" to put this into the article, but whatever, it's very interesting! -andy 217.50.63.129 ( talk) 18:03, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
I added Mar del Plata to the list of locations in which Rioplatense Spanish mainly based. It is only 250 miles away from Buenos Aires and since its foundation shares almost evey aspect of Buenos Aires idiosyncrasy and customs. Even its name means Sea of Río de la Plata.
-- 190.178-y-lo-que-toque ( talk) 12:26, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
In the Wikipedia page entitled "Languages of Argentina", the section on Spanish says that the pronunciation of "r" in Argentina is approximately like the sound "zh" found in the English word "viSIon". Should that be included in the page on "Rioplatense Spanish"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.185.154.52 ( talk) 16:56, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
Thank you. Would anyone be opposed to me changing the information on the page "Languages of Argentina?" That is, the information concerning the sounding of "r" for Argentine Spanish. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
76.185.154.52 (
talk) 20:09, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. Jenks24 ( talk) 12:12, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
Rioplatense Spanish →
Riverplate Spanish – Rioplatense is a Spanish word; it's foreign to English language. It's like to have an article named Guatemalteco Spanish, Castellano Spanish, Andaluz Spanish or Puertorriqueño Spanish, it doesn't has sense.
★ Nacho ★
★ 18:34, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
You may want to comment on the influence of Rioplatense on other dialects and languages. However I don't remember many examples:
I don't know if Che should be mentioned as well. -- Error ( talk) 22:38, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
I think we need to remove the "and some common instances of diphthong simplification" part from the Phonology section. The voseo forms such as querés are not simply 'modifications' (or 'simplifications') of the tuteo forms such as quieres. Here's what Voseo#Conjugation with vos says (and it's properly sourced): "All modern voseo declensions derive from Old Spanish second person plural -ades, -edes, -ides, and -odes (as in sodes, 'you are'). The 14th and 15th centuries saw an evolution of these declensions, with -ades originally giving -áis, -edes giving -és (or -ís), -ides giving -ís, and -odes giving -óis. Soon analogous forms -ás and -éis appeared." In this case, I don't think you can speak about any diphthong simplifications, unless they appear in other contexts. Either way, that sentence is not even sourced. — Peter238 ( v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊) 17:25, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved ( non-admin closure) Kharkiv07 ( T) 19:43, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Rioplatense Spanish → River Plate Spanish – It is more natural to use the English name for the region than the Spanish-language demonym for the title and the rest of the article. ★ Nacho ★ (Talk page) ★ 15:32, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
Although Rioplatense seems to be much more commonly used than River Plate Spanish, I noticed that the latter occurs frequently in academic publications. So I added a sentence to the lede paragraph noting it as an alternate name. There was already a redirect in place. M.boli ( talk) 16:47, 31 May 2015 (UTC)
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I added that Irish were poorer (not always but most of the times), while English immigrants came from the upper classes. And I changed not great for not as great as the Italian because more than half a million irish descendents are indeed a considerable number in a country of 35 million people.
THERE ARE NO SPANISH DIALECTS EXEPT LUNFARDO. American English is not a dialect and British English is not a dialect, nor is Australian.
That one who wrote the article is a beast that Doesn't know a word about Spanish.
"That is, in Rioplatense, se cayó "he fell down" is homophonous with se calló "he became silent"." Even if this is true, this homophony is too common in spoken spanish to be considered privative of Rioplatense Spanish. The words "calló" and "cayó" are also homophonous and frecuently pronounced "caió" in most spanish speaking countries, and the distinction beetween ll and y is more the exception (e.g. Paraguay) than the rule. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.96.66.41 ( talk) 17:33, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
The sound sample found in
voiced palatal approximant does not correspond with Río de la Plata yeism. Could someone more knowledgable verify it?
Ejrrjs |
What? 18:28, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
Well, I guess it's ok now. The only thing bodering me is that the aspirated s between vowels is not exactly a
voiceless glottal fricative, since it's a sound made far ahead, right behind the teeth, that seams not to bee among the IPA ones. Never mind, close enough.
By the way, the between-words aspiration of s ("te vua deja lo/h/ojo asi") is actually not Rioplatense at all. It's used in the south of Argentina (which are also said to speak Rioplatense spanish, as the use yeísmo), and in other provinces such as Cordoba, Catamarca, Salta, etc. as a matter of fact, I believe it's used all over argentina exept perhaps for the Chaco-Litoral Provinces (Misiones, Entre Rios, Corrientes, Chaco, Formosa). -- Marianocecowski 14:03, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
Aspiration of -s even when the following word begins with a vowel is found throughout the Spanish-speaking Americas, and is especially complete in and around the Caribbean. I didn't know it was also in Argentina. But anyways, I wanted to ask, do people down there also say "nojótroj"? Tomer TALK 17:33, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)
OK, can someone explain this to me? I have never heard, at least amongst well-educated people, the omision of the S-sound. I know that the aspiration of S happens quite often as in the word "mismo" which is generally pronunced something like [mih'mo] but the omission of the S-sound is something I generally don't hear. I've heard the homeless and the shantytown people talk like that (villeros) and tumberos speaking like that especially when they use the negative 2nd person verb voice. Instead of no vengas/vengás, no vengá. Does the omision of the S-sound really happen as often as the article states? Thanks for your help
As you sid(Lo) Usuario:AleG
Regarding the statement that "Residents of Spain tend to note such Italian intonation more easily than people from nearby regions", I would have thought that Rioplatense's Italian intonation would be quite evident for all Spanish-speakers; it is to me, and I'm Mexican. I don't know, but in my opinion the quoted statement adds little value to the article.-- Agurza 22:31, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
English is my every-day language (I live in Canada), but Italian is my mother tongue and I am fluent and current (standard and dialect). I have studied some Spanish and have travelled in much of the Spanish-speaking world (Spain, Mexico and parts of South America). Since I am not fluent in Spanish, I always found it easier to converse with locals in my mixed Italian-Spanish (slowly, of course). Even in remote parts of the Yucatán, this worked well. Several years ago, I paid a visit to Chile and Argentina. When I crossed the border on my travels towards Mendoza, I found my "Italian-Spanish" seemed to be coming out of everyone's mouths. I am exagerating my sentiment, of course, but the point I wish to make is that the sounds seemed very familiar to me. I cannot explain this in linguistic terms, but the Spanish suddenly sounded very "Italian". 207.6.233.239 22:59, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
i AM ITALIAN. I SPEAK A GOOD SPANISH. bUT WHEN I AM IN SPAIN, AND WHEN I HAVE BEEN IN MEXICO CITY, THEY HAVE ASK ME IF I WAS FROM ARGENTINA..
I'm colombian, from Barranquilla,with italian parents, and i knew many argentians in Miami, and I can tell u that their sound is like one italian is trying to speack spanish.Their language sound 100% italian.Also as they move face and hands ( gesticulation)is very italian, that is nothing latino.Of course they cannot notice that because for argentians to speak and gesticulate as one italian is the normal way life..But every spanish or latino, that is not fron Argentina notice their strong italian intonation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.49.160.162 ( talk) 23:36, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
I believe the Guaraní word gurí to be an important lunfardo word, found in a lot of tangos, and a clear example of native influece.
Link: Lunfardo G -- Mariano 14:14, 2005 Jun 3 (UTC)
I'm Uruguayan and the word gurí is widely used here. Mostly outside Montevideo, but in Montevideo is also used. Actually, I'm a 26 year old boy borned in Montevideo, and I and my friends still use gurí. About the comment "probably at least 15 million Rioplatense speakers do not use gurí", please don't be disrespectful, even though we have just 3 million inhabitants, Uruguay is an independent country. It's obvious that manners only common in Uruguay won't represent most Rioplatense speakers, but I think they should be taken into account. Pablo FG ( talk) 03:55, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Regarding the issue of the final -s in the preterite... What do you call it? Is it a remnant of the Spanish vosotros form, formed in the same way as other forms? Or is it hypercorrection? I'd like to know what (sub)dialects feature it. I have the impression that it's much more common, say, in Buenos Aires than it is in Rosario (where it sounds distinctively affected). -- Pablo D. Flores 15:14, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
Is this a technical term? I'm but an amateur of linguistics, but I'm afaid it is not.
Ejrrjs | What? 10:13, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
I wrote "ways". Im not linguistic, im underage and have no idea ot "technical" terms, but surely the one who worte the article has't even suspected that "rioplatense" couldn't be a dialect. The main argument they had to say it is a dialect is the use of 2 different "persons" (vos; ustedes) but, as I said, they dont even suspect that they are also part of the "correct" "real" "iberian" spanish. Vos is an archaism used to invocate really important people (the Pope, the King/Emperor and God himself) and was more than saying "your royal higness". In Spain is used only in the churches. It is widely used in Argentina and Uruguay because the conquerors wanted to be called in such an honorable way, in fact they talked to each other as they were an army of kings, and all the "natives" learned the "vos" form. In the other hand you have "ustedes", it is the spanish plural for "usted"", a formal pronoun (like german "Sie" or italian "lei"). It is used for the same reason, as there isn't a plural for "vos". Now we have differences of pronunctiation and some words, but it is the same difference that have british, american, australian, maltese et cetera englishes. – Argentino 22:27, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Calm down.
Argentino 00:02, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Yesterday i hadn't so much time, you see. I used the same arguments a 292–years–old istitution ( RAE) with hundreds of linguistics working for it and 21 linguistics academys (for many iberoamerican states + philippines and USA) associated to it, used for the last 100 years to determinate that there are no spanish dialects exept lunfardo. I know. I have no sources. I cannot scan the RAE's dictionary in the part that says it because it is a huge book impossible to scan, and it is illegal; so we are in the same condition we were when we started, you can just "trust me" but if i were you i wouldnt trust anyone i've never met. – Argentino 10:30, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
It says more or less the same i said before but it is 3 pages long including examples. im studyng right now. Argentino 17:45, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
I've reverted (twice) the additions by 201.151.69.13 ( talk · contribs) claiming that Rioplatense is spoken in Nicaragua and Costa Rica. The second time, this user added some arguments about immigration and relationship between the countries that seem rather inconsequential, at the very least. I've left a note on the user's talk page. If you're reading this, please raise the issue here; do not edit the article directly to reflect your personal view of the matter. -- Pablo D. Flores ( Talk) 21:56, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
Maybe I'm misunderstanding the phonetics terms but it seems like the article implies the exact opposite of what it should when it comes to the LL sound which, from my limited experience with speakers of the argentinian dialect, its most pronounced feature. The "normal" (castillian?) pronounciation of the word calle in english is pronounced as 'cai-yay' but in argentinian it is 'cai-jay.' (perhaps a little softer then english jay, more like the j sound in french 'jean') The article seems to make a big deal of giving the opposite message. Someone please correct me if i'm wrong here. -- Cptbuck 07:20, 25 December 2005 (UTC)
The difference between a dialect and a language is usually a political, not a linguistic, one. Someone once said, "A language is a dialect with an army and a navy." In Germany and Italy, regional languages that are completely incomprehensible to people from other regions are called "dialects" because they are all spoken in the same country. "Ladino" or "Judeo-Spanish" is often called a dialect of Spanish, but speakers of modern Spanish understand it as well as they understand the Spanish of someone from another Hispanic country.
The adding of "s" to the tú form of the preterit ("perdistes") is heard from uneducated speakers in all parts of the Spanish-speaking world. It is probably added by analogy with the other verb tenses in Spanish, all of which have an "s" at the end of the tú form: pierdes, perdías, perderás, perderías.
Too much of what has been said here is impressionistic. "To me it sounds like this," and "to me it sounds like that." Studies have been done with oscilloscopes and other gadgets to scientifically compare these sounds. Other statements wreak of patriotism: "Argentinean Spanish flows, while Mexican Spanish is consonantal and stress-timed." Anyone who thinks that Mexican Spanish is stress-timed has not lived surrounded by Mexicans, all rat-tat-tatting away like machine guns. Since I am often in the company of English-speakers and Spanish-speakers (mostly Mexican) at the same time, the difference between the rhythm patterns of the two languages is astounding.
-- 70.146.2.8 02:58, 27 December 2005 (UTC)Gerald Young
Yo ya sabía cuando escribí mi mensaje que no valía la pena. Adiós, y que se quede feliz, Sr. Flores, en su ignorancia.-- 70.146.2.8 20:34, 27 December 2005 (UTC)Gerald Young
I don't know, but Si te querés ir, andate. Yo no te voy a parar. sounds more natural to me... User:Ejrrjs says What? 23:01, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
R ELISION? That's a characteristic of our spanish? God, this is mad. Average people don't talk like that guy, hah. We usually don't omit any 'r' or 's'.
I just wanted to point out that the audio clip isn't very representative of how you would hear that sentence on the street, even when interacting with someone who has a less privileged educational background. Usually, the final s is either pronounced or aspirated at the very least, and that does not come through in the clip. It sounds much more Chileno than Rioplatense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.18.253.56 ( talk) 22:52, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
There's a fact about Rioplatense Spanish that might worth mention: Some verbs don't have an own imperative mode and actually "borrow" it from other verbs. Here you have some examples (actually maybe all). I write the infinitve of the verb itself, followed by the infinitive of the verb whose imperative is borrowed: Oír (to hear)/ escuchar (to listen); ver (to see)/ mirar (to look at); ir (to go)/ andar (eh...uhm...to move?). For instance, what in Rioplatense Spanish is said si querés irte, andate; in standard Spanish would be si quieres irte, vete (using the very same verb). Also note that mirar and escuchar frequently replace ver and oír in other modes as well. So, does it deserve mention?-- Cloviz 17:45, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
Word-final Rioplatense clitics receive stress in a manner that is very different from the other Latin American dialects, making them sound as if they were free morphemes -- does anyone know anything about this phenomenon? I just know from having grown up next to Argentinian neighbors and watching Argentinian shows for decades: What in my Lima dialect I would pronounce as cállate /káyate/ is pronounced callá té /kashá/ + /te/ and this stress pattern holds for all suffixed personal pronouns in the infinitive and imperative (i.e. tenseless) conjugations. It'd be interesting to see if there is research out there that shows the dialect's clitics have been transformed into "free" pronouns that simply change place but are not suffixed as they are in the majority of Spanish dialects. I'm gonna look into it but if anyone knows more about this than I do please enlighten me :) -- Rcgy 15:26, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
I've restored the link to the Argentine slang dictionary (which was deleted here because the link was dead). I'm letting it be known because, as some of the editors of this page know, it is my dictionary (it was on a borrowed domain that somebody forgot to renew). I wasn't the one to link to it in the first place, but I guess it is useful, so I uploaded it again. — Pablo D. Flores ( Talk) 02:08, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
The first line of the article says "castellano rioplatense" but omits "español rioplatense". In this case, the more adequate term should be the one used in the regions where Rioplatense is spoken. Many teachers would say "castellano", others "español", others that they are synonyms, and a small minority that the RAE oficially describes the language as "español". But at least here in Montevideo, people would never say "la extranjera que vino ayer no habla castellano" but "la extranjera que vino ayer no habla español". Here, most people knows that word but never uses it. Would someone explain how it is in Colonia, Paysandú, Capital, Gran Buenos Aires, Rosario, Santa Fe or elsewhere? -- NaBUru38 19:57, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
- Espero que veas or Espero que veas "I hope you can see" (Peninsular veáis) A diacritic is missing, or else there is no difference beetween both examples. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.96.66.41 ( talk) 17:43, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Reading this article one gets the impression that Uruguayans use "tú" and "vos" indistinctly or even randomly. This is not so. Actually, Uruguayan Spanish has a ternary second-person pronoun system:
VOS: Informal and intimate. Used between siblings, very close friends, etc.
TÚ: Informal, but not intimate. Used, for instance, by a shopkeeper adressing a customer and not wanting to sound too stiff, by two young people meeting for the first time, etc.
USTED: Formal. Used between an employer and an employee, or between a civil servant and someone from the public, for instance.
Please check this out and find appropriate sources, but if you don't, PLEASE reword the article so as not to convey the idea that VOS and TÚ are interchangeable in Uruguay. -- 200.43.37.44 18:39, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
The several of the examples cited in the chart that compares Rioplatense to Castillian are not representative of Rioplatense in specific, but American Spanish overall. For example, the words durazno, papa, and celular are used in place of the castillian melocotón, patata, and movíl in every South American country I have visited (Peru, Bolivia, Argentina, Uruguay, Chile--and the dialects of Peru Bolivia and Chile are not considered Rioplatense) as well as by Mexican friends of mine (Mexican Spanish is not Rioplatense). Perhaps words need to be chosen that represent the distinct vocabulary of Rioplatense, and these examples could be used in an article which contrasts American Spanish with European Spanish.
Additionally, having lived in Spain for some time, the word used for tie is typically corbata. Joshua Crowgey 20:29, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, I looked at that chart again and I noticed some other examples where the word that should exemplify Rioplatense is actually an 'Americanism' used all over South and Central America. Here's that chart again, with my comments.
Rioplatense | Castilian | English (US/ UK) |
---|---|---|
durazno (American) | melocotón (Spanish) | peach |
damasco (I'm unfamiliar with this word | albaricoque (unfamiliar) | apricot |
frutilla (unfamiliar, perhaps a great example of Rioplatense) | fresa (Spain, Peru, Mexico, Bolivia, Chile) | strawberry |
papa (all over America) | patata (Spain) | potato |
poroto (Many S.A. and C.A. countries = frijol) | judía (also alubia is a common word for bean in Spain | bean |
pulóver (peruvians say polo) | jersey (spanish often say camisa or camiseta if not refereing to a sport's jersey, most spanish say el suéter for a sweater) | sweater / pullover |
moño (this is literally the word for 'bow' and is used in S.A. to mean bowtie | pajarita | necktie (these are the words for a bowtie, not a necktie; necktie is corbata) |
celular (everywhere in america) | móvil (Spain) | cell phone / mobile |
computadora (everywhere in america) | ordenador (spain) | computer |
baúl (used in Peru) | maletero (Spain, possibly elsewhere) | (car) trunk / boot |
valija (unfamiliar, poss. rioplatense) | maleta (spain, peru) | luggage or suitcase |
pollera (unfamiliar) | falda (spain, peru, etc.) | skirt |
ricota | requesón | ricotta cheese |
Joshua Crowgey 16:56, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
I'd be interested in seeing an Italian or Neapolitan column, just to see how close the words are to it as well, given the history of its influence. Any takers? -- MartinezMD ( talk) 07:46, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
About this:
"
"
Well in argentina, the "buzos" are made of cotton, and the "pulóveres/pulóvers" are made of wool. That's basically the diference :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.212.239.224 ( talk) 12:07, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
I see one is immediately redirected to this page when one enters "Argentine Spanish". But as it seems, Rioplatense is only the variant of some parts of Argentina...what about the rest of the country? What accent zone do these regions fit into? LightPhoenix ( talk) 10:00, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
The "Rioplatense Spanish" is not only Rioplatense. It's talked all around Argentina. What happens is that on the frontiers, the cultural exchange varied the lenguage used in those areas. Example: In Misiones people talk "portuñol" (a mix between postuguese and spanish) because there's a frontier between Brazil and Argentina. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.212.239.224 ( talk) 12:12, 10 November 2009 (UTC)
Kotabatubara ( talk) 19:47, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
This article continues the INSANE Wikipedia delusion that there are "dialects" of Spanish. While the technical trivial differences in expression so painstakingly detailed in the text may be interesting, if you speak Spanish from ANY part of the world, you can go to ANY part of Argentina, and if they are speaking Spanish, IT'S THE SAME LANGUAGE! Perfectly understandable, even if you call a peach something different, it's only a regional idiosyncratic term, and wouldn't throw you off kilter any more than a Southern US person telling a person from Illinois that Jewfish is on the menu. It only takes a second to learn that it's a Grouper, and it's not a dialect, for Pete's sake! Someone needs to take control of this issue. It's Wiki-wide, and it's wrong. I know. I'm from Puerto Rico, a native Spanish speaker, and I've been to numerous countries in Latin America, South America, and Spain. IT'S ALL THE SAME LANGUAGE! GEEZ! I've even had people here in the US argue with me! They so authoritatively try to tell me that if I speak "Puerto Rican Spanish" I can't understand someone from Spain or Bolivia! I can't talk them out of it! (Probably because they've read it in Wikipedia). It's an ignorant contention, and I'm not sure what the genesis of it is. Wikipedia should NOT be perpetuating this fiction. 98.170.200.68 ( talk) 05:14, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
Definition time: "Linguists use the term 'dialect' to denote patterns in the way people use language. These patterns include pronunciation (or 'accent'), vocabulary and grammatical structures that reflect the user's cultural and regional backgrounds." Walt Wolfram (2002). "Everyone Has an Accent" in (Brenda Miller Power and Ruth Shagoury Hubbard, Eds.) Language Development: A Reader for Teachers. Therefore, Spanish does have dialects and Rioplatense is one of them. Craig Hughes —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.250.180.74 ( talk) 18:38, 7 September 2010 (UTC)
Given that Rioplatense Spanish is just a regional speech in Argentina, this article shouldn't be linked from Argentina infobox as representive of the whole of -or even the standard- Spanish spoken in Argentina. -- IANVS ( talk) 22:08, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
Why was the page title changed? First, it's nonsensical since "Castellane" is not even an English word. Second, it's totally inconsistent with the material inside the article (which uses, correctly, "Rioplatense Spanish"), but also with the wikipages in other languages (check the use in French, German, for instance). Can we please go back to the previous title, and changed accordingly all other associated links? Nordisk varg ( talk) 19:00, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
In Argentina the "salchicha" is always a "salchicha", the "hot dog" is "pancho". So I've just changed the spanish word "salchicha" to "perro caliente", that is the used in Spain to say "hot dog". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.85.6.27 ( talk) 00:51, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
We say salchicha in my household, which includes Bs.As. and Mendocinos. I reverted unless there is a better source.-- MartinezMD ( talk) 03:08, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
You say salchicha when you mean sausage, but if you want to say hot dog, the word used in Argentina and Uruguay is "pancho". See the articles here in Wikipedia. You can't mean a hot dog (perro caliente in Spain) saying just "salchicha".
Me. A rioplatense in Spain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.85.6.27 ( talk) 20:40, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
A perro caliente is a direct but inaccurate translation. A "pancho" would be an accurate alternative. Also, is a hot dog not a specific type of sausage? That would make 'salchicha' accurate as well. -- MartinezMD ( talk) 21:32, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
No sé si hablás español, pero a lo mejor me hago entender así. Lo que quiero decir es que en el cuadro se muestran las distintas palabras usadas para designar un mismo elemento. En este caso el "pancho", de uso rioplatense. Un "pancho", en España (Andalucía) y México, es un "Perro Caliente", no una salchicha, porque la salchicha no es más que parte del perro caliente. Además que una salchicha española, en Argentina y Uruguay también es una salchicha.
Por eso, si se va a poner la traducción de salchicha, que se ponga salchicha en Rioplatense y Sausage en inglés, o sino, si se está explicando como se dice Pancho en otros idiomas (ahí está bien HotDog para los angloparlantes) que se ponga Perro Caliente, que es como se le llama en México y España.
Esto es comprobable, acá mismo en Wikipedia, buscando los artículos de "Perro Caliente" y "Salchicha". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.85.6.27 ( talk) 23:13, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
The aspiration of the 's' between or at the end of words is a quite carachteristic feature for rioplatense speech, I know. But its use is not at all a near universal (as this article appears to suggest) nor the standard. In fact, for the majority of educated speakers it is just a purposefully idiosincratic exaggeration of the speech. I think that this article has to state the minority status of this linguistic feature. At least, I would like to see some sources backing the current attribution of a standard status for it. Salut, -- IANVS ( talk) 03:48, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
The article has been changed to include Santa Fe among the main cities in the Argentine side of the area. I just want to point out that the map on the page leaves Santa Fe outside. I understand the map may be qualitative, but I would like to check with someone from Santa Fe province about this. While I know Rosario's dialect is the same as that of Buenos Aires and La Plata, much of the interior of Santa Fe province speaks differently. I'm not sure what happens in Santa Fe capital. Can anyone confirm whether this city should be included? Nordisk varg ( talk) 17:14, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
http://ar.answers.yahoo.com This Yahoo! Answers implementation does use Rioplatense Spanish :) Preguntá! Rispondé! Descubrí! I dunno if it's too much "advertising" to put this into the article, but whatever, it's very interesting! -andy 217.50.63.129 ( talk) 18:03, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
I added Mar del Plata to the list of locations in which Rioplatense Spanish mainly based. It is only 250 miles away from Buenos Aires and since its foundation shares almost evey aspect of Buenos Aires idiosyncrasy and customs. Even its name means Sea of Río de la Plata.
-- 190.178-y-lo-que-toque ( talk) 12:26, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
In the Wikipedia page entitled "Languages of Argentina", the section on Spanish says that the pronunciation of "r" in Argentina is approximately like the sound "zh" found in the English word "viSIon". Should that be included in the page on "Rioplatense Spanish"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.185.154.52 ( talk) 16:56, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
Thank you. Would anyone be opposed to me changing the information on the page "Languages of Argentina?" That is, the information concerning the sounding of "r" for Argentine Spanish. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
76.185.154.52 (
talk) 20:09, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. Jenks24 ( talk) 12:12, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
Rioplatense Spanish →
Riverplate Spanish – Rioplatense is a Spanish word; it's foreign to English language. It's like to have an article named Guatemalteco Spanish, Castellano Spanish, Andaluz Spanish or Puertorriqueño Spanish, it doesn't has sense.
★ Nacho ★
★ 18:34, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
You may want to comment on the influence of Rioplatense on other dialects and languages. However I don't remember many examples:
I don't know if Che should be mentioned as well. -- Error ( talk) 22:38, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
I think we need to remove the "and some common instances of diphthong simplification" part from the Phonology section. The voseo forms such as querés are not simply 'modifications' (or 'simplifications') of the tuteo forms such as quieres. Here's what Voseo#Conjugation with vos says (and it's properly sourced): "All modern voseo declensions derive from Old Spanish second person plural -ades, -edes, -ides, and -odes (as in sodes, 'you are'). The 14th and 15th centuries saw an evolution of these declensions, with -ades originally giving -áis, -edes giving -és (or -ís), -ides giving -ís, and -odes giving -óis. Soon analogous forms -ás and -éis appeared." In this case, I don't think you can speak about any diphthong simplifications, unless they appear in other contexts. Either way, that sentence is not even sourced. — Peter238 ( v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊) 17:25, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved ( non-admin closure) Kharkiv07 ( T) 19:43, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
Rioplatense Spanish → River Plate Spanish – It is more natural to use the English name for the region than the Spanish-language demonym for the title and the rest of the article. ★ Nacho ★ (Talk page) ★ 15:32, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
Although Rioplatense seems to be much more commonly used than River Plate Spanish, I noticed that the latter occurs frequently in academic publications. So I added a sentence to the lede paragraph noting it as an alternate name. There was already a redirect in place. M.boli ( talk) 16:47, 31 May 2015 (UTC)