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The following statement represents a point of view per a particular academic and lacks balance.
"Professor of Sociology and Judicial Studies James T. Richardson describes deprogramming as a 'private, self-help process whereby participants in unpopular new religious movements (NRMs) were forcibly removed from the group, incarcerated, and put through radical resocialization processes that were supposed to result in their agreeing to leave the group.'"
It must be amended, both for balance and context.
I suggest the following:
There has been some controversy regarding the practice of deprogamming. Author and clinical psychologist Margaret Singer writes in her book "Cults in Our Midst" that deprogramming is "Providing members with information about the cult and showing them how their own decision-making power had been taken away from them." (Margaret Singer, Cults in Our Midst,San Francisco: Jossey Bass Publishers, 1995). But Professor of Sociology and Judicial Studies James T. Richardson, a defender of new religious movements called "cults," described deprogramming as the "private, self-help process whereby participants in unpopular new religious movements (NRMs) were forcibly removed from the group, incarcerated, and put through radical resocialization processes that were supposed to result in their agreeing to leave the group."[19] However, according to Vanderbilt Law Review "For purposes of legal analysis, there are three types of deprogramming. Voluntary deprogramming; forcible deprogramming; and deprogramming carried out with a court's sanction, usually in the form of an order of conservatorship." See https://scholarship.law.vanderbilt.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2794&context=vlr Rick Alan Ross ( talk) 19:30, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
From the above threads, it appears that we are lacking some coverage of Ross's involvement in the NXIVM controversy or whatever one wants to call it. The present article text mentions NXIVM only with the non sequitur "NXIVM, in April 2004, unsuccessfully sued Ross's Cult Education Institute in NXIVM Corp. v. Ross Institute, claiming copyright infringement.", follwed later by "Ross has been interviewed for various documentaries ... including: The Vow, season 1, episode 6, "Honesty & Disclosure" (2020, HBO), about Catherine Oxenberg and the NXIVM cult; Seduced: Inside the NXIVM Cult (2020, Starz), about the same; ....".
So, the "meat" of the Ross–NXIVM connection is missing.
To very selectively quote just the relevant stuff from all the earlier threads, and consolidate this into one talk-page topic:
|
---|
All the above closed-out Edit-COI requests are likely to be moved to an archive page soon, so here's the relevant gist:
|
The above can be distilled into a very rough draft along the lines of the following (using a bit of existing material in the article and the source for it, but without any other sources yet):
Ross's book was the first about cults to mention NXIVM, a non-religious group framed around "human potential development" seminars, and acting as a front for a variety of criminal activities. Papers published by Cult Education Institute (then still named Ross Institute) were the first critical analyses of NXIVM as a cult by mental-health professionals. NXIVM, in April 2004, sued Ross in NXIVM Corp. v. Ross Institute, claiming copyright infringement;[1] this 14-year legal battle against Ross ultimately was not successful. Ross later testified as a fact witness for the prosecution at the criminal trial of NXIVM leader Keith Raniere in 2019. Raniere was found guilty of racketeering, human trafficking, sex offenses, and fraud, and was sentenced to 120 years in prison and a $1.75 million fine.
This is missing various details (What did Ross's book and the CEI papers say about NXIVM, in nutshell summary? How exactly did the case resolve? Why was it a copyright case, which is kind of weird?), but I think there must be sources we can use already cited at the case article, at the NXIVM article, at the Raniere article, and possibly at one or another of the articles on the documentaries. One part from the thread summary above that is not addressed is "legal precedents established", since I don't know what that refers to, though perhaps the case article covers this (I haven't pored over it yet).
If something like the above block can be properly sourced and put into the article, then it would also be appropriate to include a summary of Ross's involvement with NXIVM matters in the lead of the article, since it's arguably more significant than some of what is already in the lead. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 03:17, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
The bio now states:
By 2004, Ross had handled more than 350 deprogramming cases in various countries[8] and testified as an expert witness in several court cases.[8][42][43] He has also contributed to a number of books, including a foreword to Tim Madigan's See No Evil[44] and a chapter to Roman Espejo's Cults: Opposing Viewpoints.[45]
But I have testified in notable cult trials including NXIVM criminal trial of Keith Raniere and recently the rape trial of cult leader Eligio Bishop.
I suggest the paragraph be revise to read:
By 2004, Ross had handled more than 350 deprogramming cases in various countries[8] and testified as an expert witness in several court cases.[8][42][43]. Ross testified as a fact witness in the criminal trial of NXIVM leader Keith Raniere and as an expert witness at the trial of Carbon Nation leader Eligio Bishop. Both alleged cult leaders were criminally convicted and sentenced to prison, Raniere for more than 100 years and Bishop for life without parole. He has also contributed to a number of books, including a foreword to Tim Madigan's See No Evil[44] and a chapter to Roman Espejo's Cults: Opposing Viewpoints.[45]
See https://www.timesunion.com/nxivm/article/Cult-expert-testifies-about-his-dealings-with-13972283.php
And see https://www.vice.com/en/article/j5wk88/what-its-like-to-be-surveilled-and-sued-by-nxivm
And see https://hoodline.com/2024/02/cult-clash-in-the-courtroom-expert-brands-eligio-bishop-a-destructive-leader-amidst-atlanta-rape-trial-shockers/ Rick Alan Ross ( talk) 21:44, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Rick Alan Ross article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10Auto-archiving period: 60 days |
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to articles about
living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is the subject of a request emailed to the
Volunteer Response Team (VRT). Issues identified are: Contentious categorization, correction of information related to institute, subject's image updated |
The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
This article was nominated for
deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:
|
The following Wikipedia contributor has declared a personal or professional connection to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
conflict of interest,
autobiography, and
neutral point of view.
|
Part of an edit requested by an editor with a conflict of interest has been implemented. |
The following statement represents a point of view per a particular academic and lacks balance.
"Professor of Sociology and Judicial Studies James T. Richardson describes deprogramming as a 'private, self-help process whereby participants in unpopular new religious movements (NRMs) were forcibly removed from the group, incarcerated, and put through radical resocialization processes that were supposed to result in their agreeing to leave the group.'"
It must be amended, both for balance and context.
I suggest the following:
There has been some controversy regarding the practice of deprogamming. Author and clinical psychologist Margaret Singer writes in her book "Cults in Our Midst" that deprogramming is "Providing members with information about the cult and showing them how their own decision-making power had been taken away from them." (Margaret Singer, Cults in Our Midst,San Francisco: Jossey Bass Publishers, 1995). But Professor of Sociology and Judicial Studies James T. Richardson, a defender of new religious movements called "cults," described deprogramming as the "private, self-help process whereby participants in unpopular new religious movements (NRMs) were forcibly removed from the group, incarcerated, and put through radical resocialization processes that were supposed to result in their agreeing to leave the group."[19] However, according to Vanderbilt Law Review "For purposes of legal analysis, there are three types of deprogramming. Voluntary deprogramming; forcible deprogramming; and deprogramming carried out with a court's sanction, usually in the form of an order of conservatorship." See https://scholarship.law.vanderbilt.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2794&context=vlr Rick Alan Ross ( talk) 19:30, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
From the above threads, it appears that we are lacking some coverage of Ross's involvement in the NXIVM controversy or whatever one wants to call it. The present article text mentions NXIVM only with the non sequitur "NXIVM, in April 2004, unsuccessfully sued Ross's Cult Education Institute in NXIVM Corp. v. Ross Institute, claiming copyright infringement.", follwed later by "Ross has been interviewed for various documentaries ... including: The Vow, season 1, episode 6, "Honesty & Disclosure" (2020, HBO), about Catherine Oxenberg and the NXIVM cult; Seduced: Inside the NXIVM Cult (2020, Starz), about the same; ....".
So, the "meat" of the Ross–NXIVM connection is missing.
To very selectively quote just the relevant stuff from all the earlier threads, and consolidate this into one talk-page topic:
|
---|
All the above closed-out Edit-COI requests are likely to be moved to an archive page soon, so here's the relevant gist:
|
The above can be distilled into a very rough draft along the lines of the following (using a bit of existing material in the article and the source for it, but without any other sources yet):
Ross's book was the first about cults to mention NXIVM, a non-religious group framed around "human potential development" seminars, and acting as a front for a variety of criminal activities. Papers published by Cult Education Institute (then still named Ross Institute) were the first critical analyses of NXIVM as a cult by mental-health professionals. NXIVM, in April 2004, sued Ross in NXIVM Corp. v. Ross Institute, claiming copyright infringement;[1] this 14-year legal battle against Ross ultimately was not successful. Ross later testified as a fact witness for the prosecution at the criminal trial of NXIVM leader Keith Raniere in 2019. Raniere was found guilty of racketeering, human trafficking, sex offenses, and fraud, and was sentenced to 120 years in prison and a $1.75 million fine.
This is missing various details (What did Ross's book and the CEI papers say about NXIVM, in nutshell summary? How exactly did the case resolve? Why was it a copyright case, which is kind of weird?), but I think there must be sources we can use already cited at the case article, at the NXIVM article, at the Raniere article, and possibly at one or another of the articles on the documentaries. One part from the thread summary above that is not addressed is "legal precedents established", since I don't know what that refers to, though perhaps the case article covers this (I haven't pored over it yet).
If something like the above block can be properly sourced and put into the article, then it would also be appropriate to include a summary of Ross's involvement with NXIVM matters in the lead of the article, since it's arguably more significant than some of what is already in the lead. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 03:17, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
The bio now states:
By 2004, Ross had handled more than 350 deprogramming cases in various countries[8] and testified as an expert witness in several court cases.[8][42][43] He has also contributed to a number of books, including a foreword to Tim Madigan's See No Evil[44] and a chapter to Roman Espejo's Cults: Opposing Viewpoints.[45]
But I have testified in notable cult trials including NXIVM criminal trial of Keith Raniere and recently the rape trial of cult leader Eligio Bishop.
I suggest the paragraph be revise to read:
By 2004, Ross had handled more than 350 deprogramming cases in various countries[8] and testified as an expert witness in several court cases.[8][42][43]. Ross testified as a fact witness in the criminal trial of NXIVM leader Keith Raniere and as an expert witness at the trial of Carbon Nation leader Eligio Bishop. Both alleged cult leaders were criminally convicted and sentenced to prison, Raniere for more than 100 years and Bishop for life without parole. He has also contributed to a number of books, including a foreword to Tim Madigan's See No Evil[44] and a chapter to Roman Espejo's Cults: Opposing Viewpoints.[45]
See https://www.timesunion.com/nxivm/article/Cult-expert-testifies-about-his-dealings-with-13972283.php
And see https://www.vice.com/en/article/j5wk88/what-its-like-to-be-surveilled-and-sued-by-nxivm
And see https://hoodline.com/2024/02/cult-clash-in-the-courtroom-expert-brands-eligio-bishop-a-destructive-leader-amidst-atlanta-rape-trial-shockers/ Rick Alan Ross ( talk) 21:44, 12 March 2024 (UTC)