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The last edit by 203.91.132.14 seems to substantively change the aim and tone of the article from glowing praise to suspicion and distaste. Can someone more familiar with the topic than I take a look and NPOV it? -- Brion 00:45 Sep 30, 2002 (UTC)
I'm talking with knowledge here, some years back while I was in Islamabad RAWA held some "protest marches". A core group of barely 20-30 women, on some occasions they hired women from an Afghani refugee camp for their "protests" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.91.132.14 ( talk) 22:11, 3 October 2002
guys you need to take a look. are they not those who held underground school classes for women in afghanistan under taliban? if not for RAWA, would the US have had any 'pro woman' propaganda to fling around justifying the invasion? the videos of women being beaten in public, did they not come from RAWA video? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.245.163.1 ( talk) 00:12, 23 September 2004
I took the liberty of adding a little more info: RAWA did hold secret schooling for girls in Pakistan. I don't know of any in Afghanistan, but that does not mean they did not exist. They also ran refugee camps during the Civil War and Taliban rule.-- jenlight 17:24, Jan 22, 2005 (UTC)
There were a number of misunderstandings on the main page and discussion page. Among them, the people of Afghanistan are Afghans, not Afghanis. Afghani is their unit of money. RAWA never created nor ran refugee camps. Many RAWA members and supporters live in refugee camps, and they do many of their projects in the camps, but they are not the camp owners, nor administrators. Their work is not on the "border" of Pakistan and Afghanistan, but is carried out throughout both countries. For example, they have had a lot of work going on in the Islamabad area which is central Pakistan (such as the Malalai Hospital). They have also had activities in Lahore which is on the India side of Pakistan. In contrast the area on the border of Pakistan is what is called the Northwest Frontier Territory and is or was outside the jurisdiction of the civil government of Pakistan (that may be changing somewhat with the collaboration of U.S. and Pakistani military). This area is and was considered very dangerous. When I traveled through there in 2001, I was required by the Pakistani government to hire a Pakistani soldier to accompany me from Peshawar to Khyber Pass (on the Afghan border), and so he did. The threat of robbery and kidnapping are very real for those not from the tribal area, however, having a Pakistani soldier along seems to deter that. RAWA does not have activities in this area that I know of at all. RAWA does not "hire" women from refugee camps to participate in demonstrations or protests. They often will assist women with travel costs to travel from the camps to the protests because the women have no way to afford it themselves and they desire to come. RAWA will also provide food and lodging. While at the protest the women are sometimes taken to RAWA's medical facility for care. In addition, many women have made the journey from inside Afghanistan to Peshawar or Islamabad in order to participate in the demonstrations as they have so little opportunity to give voice to their opinions inside Afghanistan. The Pakistani government has not been supportive of RAWA's demonstrations and often will stop the women from reaching the demonstrations by turning back bus loads of women or stopping them at the border of Pakistan. Thus the numbers of demonstrators in the marches is often far less than those who really would be there if they had finances and if they were not stopped for one reason or another. RAWA schools are held throughout Pakistan and Afghanistan. They are not limited to Pakistan. The U.S. government has been known to have used RAWA's video/photo property for their own propaganda purposes without permission. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.0.191.48 ( talk) 13:34, 30 May 2005
This article does not honestly discuss RAWA's Maoist roots. RAWA may (or may not) be an independent social democratic and feminist NGO at present, but its roots are as the women's section of the Afghan Maoist group SAMA. Meena Keshwar Kamal was the wife of SAMA leader Qayum Rahbar. RAWA's website even has a page showing back issues of their journal Payam-e-Zan, with Rahbar on the cover of issue number 2. [1]
Accusations of Maoist ties are not merely an empty accusation by groups opposed to RAWA, but a matter of historic fact. RAWA apparently now finds this history embarrasing and hence promulgates a revisionist view of its own history.
Any article that only gives the official RAWA line about its own history cannot be considered NPOV.
-- Peter G Werner 1 July 2005 19:41 (UTC)
I rewrote parts of the core article for greater accuracy and better organization. I also added a section on controversies about RAWA, including a somewhat more in-depth examination of the organization's Maoist roots. I have striven to be NPOV in this and cite sources for what I am saying, though I recognize that the tone of this section will come across as critical.
I welcome NPOV edits, HOWEVER, I will watch this page and if I see that information has been entirely thrown out, I will revert it back. I have reason for concern about partisan POV edits, as prior mentions of Maoism in relation this organization have been subject to POV editing and vandalism by self-described "friends of RAWA". I will keep an eye out for such activities and revert from it when I see it.
-- Peter G Werner 2 July 2005 17:37 (UTC)
A RAWA supporter going by the name of Aenjanb has posted a series of POV edits to the "Controversies" section - each time, I've re-edited them to make them more NPOV (as well as reworking his or her writing, which is not very good). I've tried to keep the substance of their writing whenever possible.
The last sentence in this statement I dropped entirely, however:
Obviously, a brief post from RAWA's own website is hardly proof one way or the other as to whether RAWA originally shot this footage or is merely presenting previously-existing footage as their own. -- Peter G Werner 00:26, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia takes a very strong position on not allowing
original research in its articles. Given the Controversies section is entirely founded on an editors 'investigative journalism', the section cannot exist as it is. The sources cited no not reflect the claims made, that being that RAWA is 'maoist'. To simply use sources as 'evidences' to support an editor's statements is not how sources are meant to be used. Also, RAWA isn't particularly notable for its alleged maoist sympathies, so the size of the section was clearly in violation of
WP:NPOV. If you have a credible source that states RAWA is maoist, and evidence that the political sympathy was at any time notable, that would merit inclusion.
His Excellency...
17:24, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
Mr Peter G Werner write that Meena was wife of Qayum Rahbar the leader of SAMA but this is not true. Meena was the wife of Dr. Faiz Ahmad leader of ALO (Afghanistan Liberation Organization).
When one discusses an issue must be careful not to make false statements. Due to his above error, I doubt that his other points will also be true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.251.135.124 ( talk) 18:33, 23 June 2006
I saw you have removed some interesting information srounding RAWA's controversial issues. Why? is there any reason behind it? According to my research, these issues are true and must be there. It will add to my knowledge if you explain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.61.56.100 ( talk) 20:58, 18 August 2006
RAWA had a good relationship with the ISI( pakistan Intelegence servise) during the soviet time and specialy during the taliban time.They funded RAWA and the organization were and stil is part of a ISI propaganda war against Afghanistan national alience during resistence against the Taliban and Al Qaeda.what they did to resistent against the Taliban or Soviet? nothing. they dont have suport of Afghani people either,
Seems this is only an accusation on RAWA. IF they "had good relationship with ISI" how their leader and founder was killed in Pakistan?? How their demonstrations are attached in Pakistan? They are being imprisoned in Pakistan and work semi-underground even in Pakistan.
If they had any link with ISI, they would never expose Taliban because everyone knows that Taliban were created and supported by ISI. This accusation is mainly raised by the "Northern Alliance" and Jehadis against RAWA because RAWA always expose their nature but they have nothing but to resort to lies. Wikiwriter3 03:46, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Different issue: the article may just be using poor writing style, but it frequently makes reference to the Taliban in close proximity to other pieces of information related to events in 1987 and 1992. The Taliban did not exist before 1994. I'm not sure if it's just poor writing or if RAWA is trying to assert the existence of the Taliban pre-1994.
Freeman2006's edit here includes the line, "But Tolo TV censored the audio of any sections where names were called!!" We should certainly avoid exclamation points like that for NPOV purposes. I'm not qualified to judge the rest of the article, but I'm going to turn those exclamation points into a period, at least. :P -- 38.99.84.14 13:22, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
(Please put new comments on the bottom of the page.)
Is the POV still being disputed? -- jenlight 13:49, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes! How could it not be! 24.131.225.162 05:13, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Is this a propaganda piece written by the RAWA itself? RAWA claims to be for women's rights, but opposed the Saur Revolution that brought education to Afghan women, brought them into decision making, brought them into industry, taught them to read, abolished reactionary anti-woman laws, etc. The PDPA, which is called "the puppet government" in this piece (very NPOV!) did more for Afghan women than RAWA could ever dream of. 24.131.225.162 23:25, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Is RAWA a political party? Has it ever sought to participate in an election? If not, the template at the bottom of this page should be removed, and RAWA should be taken off of the List of political parties in Afghanistan. If it is a political party, this should be explained further.-- Pharos ( talk) 07:35, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
i've replaced "regime" by "government". See wiktionary:regime : "Usage notes * This word is often used as a pejorative." and WP:WEASEL. i've also removed the adjective "puppet", replacing it by "Soviet-supported", and added in "US-supported" where it was missing and i found it. Boud ( talk) 20:41, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
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The last edit by 203.91.132.14 seems to substantively change the aim and tone of the article from glowing praise to suspicion and distaste. Can someone more familiar with the topic than I take a look and NPOV it? -- Brion 00:45 Sep 30, 2002 (UTC)
I'm talking with knowledge here, some years back while I was in Islamabad RAWA held some "protest marches". A core group of barely 20-30 women, on some occasions they hired women from an Afghani refugee camp for their "protests" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.91.132.14 ( talk) 22:11, 3 October 2002
guys you need to take a look. are they not those who held underground school classes for women in afghanistan under taliban? if not for RAWA, would the US have had any 'pro woman' propaganda to fling around justifying the invasion? the videos of women being beaten in public, did they not come from RAWA video? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.245.163.1 ( talk) 00:12, 23 September 2004
I took the liberty of adding a little more info: RAWA did hold secret schooling for girls in Pakistan. I don't know of any in Afghanistan, but that does not mean they did not exist. They also ran refugee camps during the Civil War and Taliban rule.-- jenlight 17:24, Jan 22, 2005 (UTC)
There were a number of misunderstandings on the main page and discussion page. Among them, the people of Afghanistan are Afghans, not Afghanis. Afghani is their unit of money. RAWA never created nor ran refugee camps. Many RAWA members and supporters live in refugee camps, and they do many of their projects in the camps, but they are not the camp owners, nor administrators. Their work is not on the "border" of Pakistan and Afghanistan, but is carried out throughout both countries. For example, they have had a lot of work going on in the Islamabad area which is central Pakistan (such as the Malalai Hospital). They have also had activities in Lahore which is on the India side of Pakistan. In contrast the area on the border of Pakistan is what is called the Northwest Frontier Territory and is or was outside the jurisdiction of the civil government of Pakistan (that may be changing somewhat with the collaboration of U.S. and Pakistani military). This area is and was considered very dangerous. When I traveled through there in 2001, I was required by the Pakistani government to hire a Pakistani soldier to accompany me from Peshawar to Khyber Pass (on the Afghan border), and so he did. The threat of robbery and kidnapping are very real for those not from the tribal area, however, having a Pakistani soldier along seems to deter that. RAWA does not have activities in this area that I know of at all. RAWA does not "hire" women from refugee camps to participate in demonstrations or protests. They often will assist women with travel costs to travel from the camps to the protests because the women have no way to afford it themselves and they desire to come. RAWA will also provide food and lodging. While at the protest the women are sometimes taken to RAWA's medical facility for care. In addition, many women have made the journey from inside Afghanistan to Peshawar or Islamabad in order to participate in the demonstrations as they have so little opportunity to give voice to their opinions inside Afghanistan. The Pakistani government has not been supportive of RAWA's demonstrations and often will stop the women from reaching the demonstrations by turning back bus loads of women or stopping them at the border of Pakistan. Thus the numbers of demonstrators in the marches is often far less than those who really would be there if they had finances and if they were not stopped for one reason or another. RAWA schools are held throughout Pakistan and Afghanistan. They are not limited to Pakistan. The U.S. government has been known to have used RAWA's video/photo property for their own propaganda purposes without permission. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.0.191.48 ( talk) 13:34, 30 May 2005
This article does not honestly discuss RAWA's Maoist roots. RAWA may (or may not) be an independent social democratic and feminist NGO at present, but its roots are as the women's section of the Afghan Maoist group SAMA. Meena Keshwar Kamal was the wife of SAMA leader Qayum Rahbar. RAWA's website even has a page showing back issues of their journal Payam-e-Zan, with Rahbar on the cover of issue number 2. [1]
Accusations of Maoist ties are not merely an empty accusation by groups opposed to RAWA, but a matter of historic fact. RAWA apparently now finds this history embarrasing and hence promulgates a revisionist view of its own history.
Any article that only gives the official RAWA line about its own history cannot be considered NPOV.
-- Peter G Werner 1 July 2005 19:41 (UTC)
I rewrote parts of the core article for greater accuracy and better organization. I also added a section on controversies about RAWA, including a somewhat more in-depth examination of the organization's Maoist roots. I have striven to be NPOV in this and cite sources for what I am saying, though I recognize that the tone of this section will come across as critical.
I welcome NPOV edits, HOWEVER, I will watch this page and if I see that information has been entirely thrown out, I will revert it back. I have reason for concern about partisan POV edits, as prior mentions of Maoism in relation this organization have been subject to POV editing and vandalism by self-described "friends of RAWA". I will keep an eye out for such activities and revert from it when I see it.
-- Peter G Werner 2 July 2005 17:37 (UTC)
A RAWA supporter going by the name of Aenjanb has posted a series of POV edits to the "Controversies" section - each time, I've re-edited them to make them more NPOV (as well as reworking his or her writing, which is not very good). I've tried to keep the substance of their writing whenever possible.
The last sentence in this statement I dropped entirely, however:
Obviously, a brief post from RAWA's own website is hardly proof one way or the other as to whether RAWA originally shot this footage or is merely presenting previously-existing footage as their own. -- Peter G Werner 00:26, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia takes a very strong position on not allowing
original research in its articles. Given the Controversies section is entirely founded on an editors 'investigative journalism', the section cannot exist as it is. The sources cited no not reflect the claims made, that being that RAWA is 'maoist'. To simply use sources as 'evidences' to support an editor's statements is not how sources are meant to be used. Also, RAWA isn't particularly notable for its alleged maoist sympathies, so the size of the section was clearly in violation of
WP:NPOV. If you have a credible source that states RAWA is maoist, and evidence that the political sympathy was at any time notable, that would merit inclusion.
His Excellency...
17:24, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
Mr Peter G Werner write that Meena was wife of Qayum Rahbar the leader of SAMA but this is not true. Meena was the wife of Dr. Faiz Ahmad leader of ALO (Afghanistan Liberation Organization).
When one discusses an issue must be careful not to make false statements. Due to his above error, I doubt that his other points will also be true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.251.135.124 ( talk) 18:33, 23 June 2006
I saw you have removed some interesting information srounding RAWA's controversial issues. Why? is there any reason behind it? According to my research, these issues are true and must be there. It will add to my knowledge if you explain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.61.56.100 ( talk) 20:58, 18 August 2006
RAWA had a good relationship with the ISI( pakistan Intelegence servise) during the soviet time and specialy during the taliban time.They funded RAWA and the organization were and stil is part of a ISI propaganda war against Afghanistan national alience during resistence against the Taliban and Al Qaeda.what they did to resistent against the Taliban or Soviet? nothing. they dont have suport of Afghani people either,
Seems this is only an accusation on RAWA. IF they "had good relationship with ISI" how their leader and founder was killed in Pakistan?? How their demonstrations are attached in Pakistan? They are being imprisoned in Pakistan and work semi-underground even in Pakistan.
If they had any link with ISI, they would never expose Taliban because everyone knows that Taliban were created and supported by ISI. This accusation is mainly raised by the "Northern Alliance" and Jehadis against RAWA because RAWA always expose their nature but they have nothing but to resort to lies. Wikiwriter3 03:46, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Different issue: the article may just be using poor writing style, but it frequently makes reference to the Taliban in close proximity to other pieces of information related to events in 1987 and 1992. The Taliban did not exist before 1994. I'm not sure if it's just poor writing or if RAWA is trying to assert the existence of the Taliban pre-1994.
Freeman2006's edit here includes the line, "But Tolo TV censored the audio of any sections where names were called!!" We should certainly avoid exclamation points like that for NPOV purposes. I'm not qualified to judge the rest of the article, but I'm going to turn those exclamation points into a period, at least. :P -- 38.99.84.14 13:22, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
(Please put new comments on the bottom of the page.)
Is the POV still being disputed? -- jenlight 13:49, 27 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes! How could it not be! 24.131.225.162 05:13, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
Is this a propaganda piece written by the RAWA itself? RAWA claims to be for women's rights, but opposed the Saur Revolution that brought education to Afghan women, brought them into decision making, brought them into industry, taught them to read, abolished reactionary anti-woman laws, etc. The PDPA, which is called "the puppet government" in this piece (very NPOV!) did more for Afghan women than RAWA could ever dream of. 24.131.225.162 23:25, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Is RAWA a political party? Has it ever sought to participate in an election? If not, the template at the bottom of this page should be removed, and RAWA should be taken off of the List of political parties in Afghanistan. If it is a political party, this should be explained further.-- Pharos ( talk) 07:35, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
i've replaced "regime" by "government". See wiktionary:regime : "Usage notes * This word is often used as a pejorative." and WP:WEASEL. i've also removed the adjective "puppet", replacing it by "Soviet-supported", and added in "US-supported" where it was missing and i found it. Boud ( talk) 20:41, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:33, 2 December 2017 (UTC)