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"Warren acquired the second and less complete of the two skeletons ... That skeleton is now in the American Museum of Natural History (no longer mounted)" from
The Rediscovery of Peale's Mastodon agrees with article
"The mastodon at the Baltimore Museum was eventually dismantled and dispersed, with some of the bones going to the Smithsonian. These were returned to the Peale Museum in 1954."
The Mastodon in the Museum
Hi there, and thank you for contributing to this article and letting me know of conflicting facts! I've reinvestigated the facts, and it appears that the narrative that the mastodon skeleton being destroyed in 1849-1850 by fire stemmed from
an assumption of its fate as a result of John Collins Warren stating that the whereabouts of the second skeleton are unknown in his
1852 monograph. Indeed, as Simpson pointed out, Warren said, "The upper figure, on the left hand, is that of Mr. Peale, discovered in 1801, which was the first approach to a regular skeleton. In 1802 it was transported to London, but subsequently restored to America, where it reigned with scarcely a rival for nearly half a century. In Peale’s Museum at Philadelphia, it occupied a prominent place, until, in the year 1849 or 50, it disappeared; and, since then, there is no authentic account of its history." The 1921 paper, amongst others, concluded that the second skeleton was therefore destroyed. Simpson in 1954 said, "The first Peale skeleton still exists. It is in the Geologisch-Mineralogische Abteilung des Hessischen Landesmuseums in Darmstadt, Germany, for which it was purchased by J. J. Kaup in 1854." Later on, he went on to explain, "Warren acquired the second and less complete of the two skeletons collected and restored by the Peales, the Baltimore skeleton exhibited in Rembrandt Peale's museum in that city. That skeleton is now in the American Museum of Natural History (no longer mounted) and cannot be the one in Darmstadt."
So what Simpson's arguing was that previous assumptions by American historians that the Peale's mastodon skeleton (or both skeletons) was (or were) destroyed stem from the belief that the disappearance(s) can be explained by a fire that could have destroyed the specimens. He stated that neither of them in fact were destroyed, as the first was purchased by Kaup for Hessisches Landesmuseum Darmstadt while the second, less complete skeleton was acquired by Warren for the American Museum of Natural History.
I should have mentioned that I have just written
Peale's Philadelphia Museum, hence my sudden interest in Peale's mastodons. I wanted to note the discrepancy about the Baltimore skeleton on the talk page, but not necessarily change the article. Obviously at least two of the three sources I quoted must be wrong and it is likely that the Yale University American monster is correct.
One bit of the article that doesn't look quite right is the paragraph about Barber's Farm, which is sourced to Zygmont, who only mentions Masten's Farm and doesn't say that the second skeleton came from Barber's Farm.
I forgot an additional citation by Semonin, and even then I got the fact wrong, so I corrected it by listing the farms of both Barber and Millspaw, the latter of which is where the second skeleton reportedly came from.
PrimalMustelid (
talk)
23:13, 30 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Thank you for the correction, I have also found
Mr. Peale and His Mammoth Museum, which says the Baltimore skeleton was sold to Warren, given to Harvard and then "In 1991, fifteen bones, all that remained, were transferred back to the Peale Museum in Baltimore", which supports the Maryland Center for History and Culture claim to have some of the Baltimore skeleton.
TSventon (
talk)
09:54, 1 May 2024 (UTC)reply
PrimalMustelid, I checked the AMNH paleontology database
here and found they had Catalog Number 9965, a partial skeleton of Mammut americanum, collector Charles Willson Peale, which supports what the article says.
TSventon (
talk)
13:56, 2 May 2024 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palaeontology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
palaeontology-related topics and create a standardized, informative, comprehensive and easy-to-use resource on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PalaeontologyWikipedia:WikiProject PalaeontologyTemplate:WikiProject PalaeontologyPalaeontology articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Mammals, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of mammal-related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MammalsWikipedia:WikiProject MammalsTemplate:WikiProject Mammalsmammal articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the
United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
This article is part of the History of Science WikiProject, an attempt to improve and organize the
history of science content on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the
project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
discussion. You can also help with the History of Science Collaboration of the Month.History of ScienceWikipedia:WikiProject History of ScienceTemplate:WikiProject History of Sciencehistory of science articles
"Warren acquired the second and less complete of the two skeletons ... That skeleton is now in the American Museum of Natural History (no longer mounted)" from
The Rediscovery of Peale's Mastodon agrees with article
"The mastodon at the Baltimore Museum was eventually dismantled and dispersed, with some of the bones going to the Smithsonian. These were returned to the Peale Museum in 1954."
The Mastodon in the Museum
Hi there, and thank you for contributing to this article and letting me know of conflicting facts! I've reinvestigated the facts, and it appears that the narrative that the mastodon skeleton being destroyed in 1849-1850 by fire stemmed from
an assumption of its fate as a result of John Collins Warren stating that the whereabouts of the second skeleton are unknown in his
1852 monograph. Indeed, as Simpson pointed out, Warren said, "The upper figure, on the left hand, is that of Mr. Peale, discovered in 1801, which was the first approach to a regular skeleton. In 1802 it was transported to London, but subsequently restored to America, where it reigned with scarcely a rival for nearly half a century. In Peale’s Museum at Philadelphia, it occupied a prominent place, until, in the year 1849 or 50, it disappeared; and, since then, there is no authentic account of its history." The 1921 paper, amongst others, concluded that the second skeleton was therefore destroyed. Simpson in 1954 said, "The first Peale skeleton still exists. It is in the Geologisch-Mineralogische Abteilung des Hessischen Landesmuseums in Darmstadt, Germany, for which it was purchased by J. J. Kaup in 1854." Later on, he went on to explain, "Warren acquired the second and less complete of the two skeletons collected and restored by the Peales, the Baltimore skeleton exhibited in Rembrandt Peale's museum in that city. That skeleton is now in the American Museum of Natural History (no longer mounted) and cannot be the one in Darmstadt."
So what Simpson's arguing was that previous assumptions by American historians that the Peale's mastodon skeleton (or both skeletons) was (or were) destroyed stem from the belief that the disappearance(s) can be explained by a fire that could have destroyed the specimens. He stated that neither of them in fact were destroyed, as the first was purchased by Kaup for Hessisches Landesmuseum Darmstadt while the second, less complete skeleton was acquired by Warren for the American Museum of Natural History.
I should have mentioned that I have just written
Peale's Philadelphia Museum, hence my sudden interest in Peale's mastodons. I wanted to note the discrepancy about the Baltimore skeleton on the talk page, but not necessarily change the article. Obviously at least two of the three sources I quoted must be wrong and it is likely that the Yale University American monster is correct.
One bit of the article that doesn't look quite right is the paragraph about Barber's Farm, which is sourced to Zygmont, who only mentions Masten's Farm and doesn't say that the second skeleton came from Barber's Farm.
I forgot an additional citation by Semonin, and even then I got the fact wrong, so I corrected it by listing the farms of both Barber and Millspaw, the latter of which is where the second skeleton reportedly came from.
PrimalMustelid (
talk)
23:13, 30 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Thank you for the correction, I have also found
Mr. Peale and His Mammoth Museum, which says the Baltimore skeleton was sold to Warren, given to Harvard and then "In 1991, fifteen bones, all that remained, were transferred back to the Peale Museum in Baltimore", which supports the Maryland Center for History and Culture claim to have some of the Baltimore skeleton.
TSventon (
talk)
09:54, 1 May 2024 (UTC)reply
PrimalMustelid, I checked the AMNH paleontology database
here and found they had Catalog Number 9965, a partial skeleton of Mammut americanum, collector Charles Willson Peale, which supports what the article says.
TSventon (
talk)
13:56, 2 May 2024 (UTC)reply