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Renaissance (band) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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In 1978, a compilation of Prologue and Ashes are Burning was released on a two-disc record/one cassette tape, and titled "In the Beginning." Should this be added to compilations? 98.221.131.77 ( talk) 11:07, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Any muso's fancy casting an NPOV eye over this article??? quercus robur 23:57 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)
Isn't this article better titled Renaissance (band)? Wshun
There's a lot of POV stuff in this article. Needs a fairly heavy edit to remove bias. -- Lee M (Renaissance fan)
Re the original band: their first album was on Island in UK, not Elektra, and the second was only released in Germany. Re the second line-up, the original guitarist was Mick Parsons who died in a car crash the day before Prologue was recorded. Note also that very many musicians passed through in the early days. Incidentally, Annie Haslam has said that she never regarded Renaissance as a rock band. The (almost) original line-up reformed as Illusion, and released two albums. Sbz5809 12:29, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
"However, Renaissance's live performances were normally faithful reproductions of the studio recordings, and this was not taken well by fans.", that's quite an odd statement. Where is the proof that this hasn't been taken well by fans? - since this is typical behaviour for a progressive rock band at the time and is something that can hardly be an obvious reason for why their concerts were apparently not 'taken well by fans.'
I want to add two items to List of popular songs based on classical music: "Cold Is Being" (Adagio for Strings, by Albinoni) and "Going Home" (part of Symphony from the New World, by Dvořák) — but I don't know which album(s) they're on, and thus their dates. (One of them may be on Annie in Wonderland.) Anybody? — Tamfang 22:30, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Image:Renren123.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 04:21, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
The main article would be improved if there were a word or two on the band's relationship with Betty Thatcher, and how they got her to write the lyrics to some of their songs. 198.177.27.22 ( talk) 01:32, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
That aspect is now covered on Betty's own wiki article RGCorris ( talk) 17:19, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
I question the release dates -- are they the CD release dates? I have cassette versions of these albums; volume 1 is dated 1975 and volume 2 is dated 1979. -- AFbrat1972-MN ( talk) 03:20, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Northern Lights has volume 1 covering the years 1974-76 and volume 2 covering the years 1976-79; original releases of both, on CD and cassette in 1990. Perhaps the date on your cassette refers to the original recording date rather than the compilation release date ? RGCorris ( talk) 13:09, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm reasonably certain that I first saw Renaissance on the Mike Douglas show perform "Can You Hear Me" in promotion of Novella. That was my introduction to the band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.196.15.140 ( talk) 18:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Kids' TV show, used to be on (many years back) when I'd get home from school. Set in Tyneside. It even has its own Wikipedia page, which states: "The signature tune of the series, "Back Home Once Again", was performed by progressive folk rock band Renaissance, and it appears (re-recorded) as a full-length song on their 1978 album A Song For All Seasons." Doesn't this merit a mention here? To many (not of the prog-rock persuasion) this may be what the band is best known for. Johncurrandavis ( talk) 11:40, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Johncurrandavis (
talk)
11:40, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
The link on Michael Dunford points to a football administrator! There does not seem to be an entry for Dunford the musician. Seftelcm ( talk) 09:20, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
Michael Dunford has died [1], as some recent edits have noted.
I understand why some editors want to remove Dunford from the band's line-up, but I think that this should not be done. So far, there has been no announcement from the band as to whether they will continue to play together. So the recent edits, although well-intentioned, have created a new hypothetical band:
2012 - present
In other words, the current Renaissance article asserts that there exists a band called "Renaissance" whose lineup is Haslam-Keyes-Tesar-Pagano-Hart. But no such band has ever existed. In fact, if someone actually believed what was said on this page, they would conclude that "from 2012 to the present day", there was a band named Renaissance which had no guitar player. That's simply not true.
That is why I have removed the hypothetical "2012 to present" band lineup.
If the band announces that they will continue touring, they will surely announce their new lineup. I will bet a lot of money that the new lineup will include a guitarist. Therefore, even if the band does continue, there is not, and never will be, a Renaissance whose members are Haslam-Keyes-Tesar-Pagano-Hart.
On the other hand, if they announce that they will not continue as a band, then Dunford will be listed as a "member" of the band on this page, just as John Lennon is listed as a "member" of the Beatles (contrast to Pete Best, who is listed as a "former member" of the Beatles. But until we hear any notice, we should note Dunford's passing :-( but we can't invent new futures for this band without evidence. — Lawrence King ( talk) 20:35, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
I strongly feel there should be a dedicated wiki page for Michael Dunford, as he was the band's principal songwriter. He was exceptionally gifted and composed and arranged long, intricate, sophisticated, instrumental passages for the band. Would someone like to create a dedicated page for him? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Truthspeak ( talk • contribs) 23:49, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
The image which has been in the Infobox for some years has been removed from the article at the request of the band because of issues with its quality. Please do not revert this edit. The image which is currently displayed there is temporary, and could be changed quite soon. Progress reports will be posted here, when necessary. Other editors ideas are most welcome. CaesarsPalaceDude ( talk) 20:58, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
Enlighten me, please.
Where is it clearly and unambiguously documented that it is essential to attribute ownership of the infobox image in the infobox? Clearly the file page at commons contains the attribution information which, to my mind, is in compliance with the words at WP:CREDITS and the words at Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported.
If a requirement for attribution in the infobox exists, it isn't readily available to editors who might do as I did and remove the attribution. Such requirement, should they exist, must be obvious to any editor.
And one last tidbit: The license under which we all release our work on Wikipedia when we click Save page, appears to be the same license that applies to the infobox image.
Am I missing something?
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 20:05, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
|caption=
parameter would look like this:
|caption=Renaissance, 2012. Clockwise from upper left: Jason Hart, David J. Keyes, Rave Tesar, Frank Pagano, Michael Dunford, and Annie Haslam. {{small|{{color|silver|Photo by RBarnesPhotography.com}}}}<!--see [[Talk:Renaissance_(band)#.22essential.22_attribution.3F]]-->
Renaissance are currently (April 2015) touring the UK and Europe with the following six-piece line-up :
Annie Haslam – vocals Rave Tesar – keyboards Frank Pagano – drums Tom Brislin – keyboards Mark Lambert – guitar, backing vocals Leo Traversa – bass
So in what way are David Keyes, Jason Hart and Ryche Chlanda still "current members" of the band while Brislin, Lambert and Traversa are only "current touring musicians" ? RGCorris ( talk) 10:38, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
Many sources have been found which state that Annie Haslam possesses a five-octave vocal range, including Snider which is quoted in the body of the article as "crystal clear five-octave voice". Whether Haslam uses all of her vocal range with Renaissance is entirely irrelevant. Repeatedly changing the article without citing sources will eventually be marked as vandalism. CaesarsPalaceDude ( talk) 19:00, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
I have a big problem with aggressive music critics as a whole. I think if one really wants to add such appallingly harsh content to a Wikipedia article, it should be necessary to prove that it reflects the opinion of a sufficient base of listeners (IMHO just saying "some critics" as in the main article is not enough). The guy at Rolling Stone could basically have said the same about ELP or Jethro Tull, but I guess he wouldn't have dared. If he hates this kind of music, that is alright, I'd just advise him to concentrate on what he likes and knows about.
A clue might be that the guy had a problem with women at large, as appears in this example:
The Slits
Cut (1979)
Rating: 1 Star
"...reveals no singing ability, a rudimentary handling of musical instruments and rather poor reggae-influenced songwriting. Yet this do-it-yourself incompetence is precisely the point, claim the group's admirers. Obviously, then, for hard-core Anglophilic ass kissers only." (Wayne King, 1983 RS Record Guide)
Source
More interesting and constructive critical material can be found e.g. at
http://www.tranglos.com/marek/yes/tr_14.html or
http://starling.rinet.ru/music/haslam.htm
Alexandre Oberlin (
talk)
00:17, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
Basically you are saying that any dude can show up and say e.g. that Leonard Bernstein was a mediocre composer and conductor, and you will value such statement as encyclopedia grade for Wikipedia and fight for it to stay online with an equal visibility as the chorus of praise. Are you really sure that Wikipedia is supposed to work that way? BTW did you take a look at the critics I linked to? They are not only positive, but at least have some rationale beyond raw personal disdain. I’m sure we’ll be able to agree on a small set of qualified and representative appreciations rather than censoring each other. Alexandre Oberlin ( talk) 18:51, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
In the classic line-up photo, Terry Sullivan and John Tout are swapped. It's John Tout at the top, and it's Terry Sullivan whose knee Annie Haslam is resting her arm on. 84.216.108.70 ( talk) 13:30, 12 June 2024 (UTC)
|
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Renaissance (band) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
In 1978, a compilation of Prologue and Ashes are Burning was released on a two-disc record/one cassette tape, and titled "In the Beginning." Should this be added to compilations? 98.221.131.77 ( talk) 11:07, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Any muso's fancy casting an NPOV eye over this article??? quercus robur 23:57 14 Jul 2003 (UTC)
Isn't this article better titled Renaissance (band)? Wshun
There's a lot of POV stuff in this article. Needs a fairly heavy edit to remove bias. -- Lee M (Renaissance fan)
Re the original band: their first album was on Island in UK, not Elektra, and the second was only released in Germany. Re the second line-up, the original guitarist was Mick Parsons who died in a car crash the day before Prologue was recorded. Note also that very many musicians passed through in the early days. Incidentally, Annie Haslam has said that she never regarded Renaissance as a rock band. The (almost) original line-up reformed as Illusion, and released two albums. Sbz5809 12:29, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
"However, Renaissance's live performances were normally faithful reproductions of the studio recordings, and this was not taken well by fans.", that's quite an odd statement. Where is the proof that this hasn't been taken well by fans? - since this is typical behaviour for a progressive rock band at the time and is something that can hardly be an obvious reason for why their concerts were apparently not 'taken well by fans.'
I want to add two items to List of popular songs based on classical music: "Cold Is Being" (Adagio for Strings, by Albinoni) and "Going Home" (part of Symphony from the New World, by Dvořák) — but I don't know which album(s) they're on, and thus their dates. (One of them may be on Annie in Wonderland.) Anybody? — Tamfang 22:30, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Image:Renren123.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 04:21, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
The main article would be improved if there were a word or two on the band's relationship with Betty Thatcher, and how they got her to write the lyrics to some of their songs. 198.177.27.22 ( talk) 01:32, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
That aspect is now covered on Betty's own wiki article RGCorris ( talk) 17:19, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
I question the release dates -- are they the CD release dates? I have cassette versions of these albums; volume 1 is dated 1975 and volume 2 is dated 1979. -- AFbrat1972-MN ( talk) 03:20, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Northern Lights has volume 1 covering the years 1974-76 and volume 2 covering the years 1976-79; original releases of both, on CD and cassette in 1990. Perhaps the date on your cassette refers to the original recording date rather than the compilation release date ? RGCorris ( talk) 13:09, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm reasonably certain that I first saw Renaissance on the Mike Douglas show perform "Can You Hear Me" in promotion of Novella. That was my introduction to the band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.196.15.140 ( talk) 18:37, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
Kids' TV show, used to be on (many years back) when I'd get home from school. Set in Tyneside. It even has its own Wikipedia page, which states: "The signature tune of the series, "Back Home Once Again", was performed by progressive folk rock band Renaissance, and it appears (re-recorded) as a full-length song on their 1978 album A Song For All Seasons." Doesn't this merit a mention here? To many (not of the prog-rock persuasion) this may be what the band is best known for. Johncurrandavis ( talk) 11:40, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Johncurrandavis (
talk)
11:40, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
The link on Michael Dunford points to a football administrator! There does not seem to be an entry for Dunford the musician. Seftelcm ( talk) 09:20, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
Michael Dunford has died [1], as some recent edits have noted.
I understand why some editors want to remove Dunford from the band's line-up, but I think that this should not be done. So far, there has been no announcement from the band as to whether they will continue to play together. So the recent edits, although well-intentioned, have created a new hypothetical band:
2012 - present
In other words, the current Renaissance article asserts that there exists a band called "Renaissance" whose lineup is Haslam-Keyes-Tesar-Pagano-Hart. But no such band has ever existed. In fact, if someone actually believed what was said on this page, they would conclude that "from 2012 to the present day", there was a band named Renaissance which had no guitar player. That's simply not true.
That is why I have removed the hypothetical "2012 to present" band lineup.
If the band announces that they will continue touring, they will surely announce their new lineup. I will bet a lot of money that the new lineup will include a guitarist. Therefore, even if the band does continue, there is not, and never will be, a Renaissance whose members are Haslam-Keyes-Tesar-Pagano-Hart.
On the other hand, if they announce that they will not continue as a band, then Dunford will be listed as a "member" of the band on this page, just as John Lennon is listed as a "member" of the Beatles (contrast to Pete Best, who is listed as a "former member" of the Beatles. But until we hear any notice, we should note Dunford's passing :-( but we can't invent new futures for this band without evidence. — Lawrence King ( talk) 20:35, 25 November 2012 (UTC)
I strongly feel there should be a dedicated wiki page for Michael Dunford, as he was the band's principal songwriter. He was exceptionally gifted and composed and arranged long, intricate, sophisticated, instrumental passages for the band. Would someone like to create a dedicated page for him? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Truthspeak ( talk • contribs) 23:49, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
The image which has been in the Infobox for some years has been removed from the article at the request of the band because of issues with its quality. Please do not revert this edit. The image which is currently displayed there is temporary, and could be changed quite soon. Progress reports will be posted here, when necessary. Other editors ideas are most welcome. CaesarsPalaceDude ( talk) 20:58, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
Enlighten me, please.
Where is it clearly and unambiguously documented that it is essential to attribute ownership of the infobox image in the infobox? Clearly the file page at commons contains the attribution information which, to my mind, is in compliance with the words at WP:CREDITS and the words at Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported.
If a requirement for attribution in the infobox exists, it isn't readily available to editors who might do as I did and remove the attribution. Such requirement, should they exist, must be obvious to any editor.
And one last tidbit: The license under which we all release our work on Wikipedia when we click Save page, appears to be the same license that applies to the infobox image.
Am I missing something?
— Trappist the monk ( talk) 20:05, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
|caption=
parameter would look like this:
|caption=Renaissance, 2012. Clockwise from upper left: Jason Hart, David J. Keyes, Rave Tesar, Frank Pagano, Michael Dunford, and Annie Haslam. {{small|{{color|silver|Photo by RBarnesPhotography.com}}}}<!--see [[Talk:Renaissance_(band)#.22essential.22_attribution.3F]]-->
Renaissance are currently (April 2015) touring the UK and Europe with the following six-piece line-up :
Annie Haslam – vocals Rave Tesar – keyboards Frank Pagano – drums Tom Brislin – keyboards Mark Lambert – guitar, backing vocals Leo Traversa – bass
So in what way are David Keyes, Jason Hart and Ryche Chlanda still "current members" of the band while Brislin, Lambert and Traversa are only "current touring musicians" ? RGCorris ( talk) 10:38, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
Many sources have been found which state that Annie Haslam possesses a five-octave vocal range, including Snider which is quoted in the body of the article as "crystal clear five-octave voice". Whether Haslam uses all of her vocal range with Renaissance is entirely irrelevant. Repeatedly changing the article without citing sources will eventually be marked as vandalism. CaesarsPalaceDude ( talk) 19:00, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
I have a big problem with aggressive music critics as a whole. I think if one really wants to add such appallingly harsh content to a Wikipedia article, it should be necessary to prove that it reflects the opinion of a sufficient base of listeners (IMHO just saying "some critics" as in the main article is not enough). The guy at Rolling Stone could basically have said the same about ELP or Jethro Tull, but I guess he wouldn't have dared. If he hates this kind of music, that is alright, I'd just advise him to concentrate on what he likes and knows about.
A clue might be that the guy had a problem with women at large, as appears in this example:
The Slits
Cut (1979)
Rating: 1 Star
"...reveals no singing ability, a rudimentary handling of musical instruments and rather poor reggae-influenced songwriting. Yet this do-it-yourself incompetence is precisely the point, claim the group's admirers. Obviously, then, for hard-core Anglophilic ass kissers only." (Wayne King, 1983 RS Record Guide)
Source
More interesting and constructive critical material can be found e.g. at
http://www.tranglos.com/marek/yes/tr_14.html or
http://starling.rinet.ru/music/haslam.htm
Alexandre Oberlin (
talk)
00:17, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
Basically you are saying that any dude can show up and say e.g. that Leonard Bernstein was a mediocre composer and conductor, and you will value such statement as encyclopedia grade for Wikipedia and fight for it to stay online with an equal visibility as the chorus of praise. Are you really sure that Wikipedia is supposed to work that way? BTW did you take a look at the critics I linked to? They are not only positive, but at least have some rationale beyond raw personal disdain. I’m sure we’ll be able to agree on a small set of qualified and representative appreciations rather than censoring each other. Alexandre Oberlin ( talk) 18:51, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
In the classic line-up photo, Terry Sullivan and John Tout are swapped. It's John Tout at the top, and it's Terry Sullivan whose knee Annie Haslam is resting her arm on. 84.216.108.70 ( talk) 13:30, 12 June 2024 (UTC)