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I believe the page is currently slightly too antagonistic. It begins with a more traditional view of the belief, and moves on to a refutation by citing progressive Adventist and non-Adventist views. Instead, it needs to start with a presentation modelled after the fundamental belief. Specifically, the most important part of this belief is that the church believes there will be an end-time group of godly people. After that, more intense debate may follow as to whom that group constitutes. Colin MacLaurin 14:10, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Personally I am unhappy with what I perceive to be a dissonance between standard Adventist teaching, and the presentation given in this article. Standard Adventist teaching is that the remnant of Revelation 12:17 is the Seventh-day Adventist church.
All of these statements identify the Adventist church (that is, the visible organization) precisely with "the remnant" or "the remnant church". By comparison, my feeling is that this article as a whole distances itself from admitting and exploring this identification. As such I think there is a progressive bias, which I would like to try and correct. Tonicthebrown 14:11, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Gerhard F. Hasel wrote an important book on the Remnant which is respected by non-Adventist scholars. It might be worth taking a look at it as a source. Tonicthebrown 13:13, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
I propose a new article, perhaps titled
remnant theology or
remnant (theology), about the theology of the remnant theme in the Bible, within Christianity that is. This present article would be a {{
main}} branch of that one. As I understand, remnant theology has existed in many movements throughout Christendom (or all? I'm not sure). Read one author who surveyed major remnant thinkers and criticised the overemphasis of the concept. Will try to didg it out.
Colin MacLaurin
13:27, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
I've had a bit of a think about this article. As it stands it may give the reader the impression that there are 5 equally notable views about the Remnant. My impression is that there are really only 3 notable positions, or groups of positions: (1) The traditional position (Adventist church = remnant church), (2) The "broad" or "remnant message" position (remnant is an invisible entity which includes all sincere Christians, although the Adventist church may have a unique remnant message), and (3) Liberal positions -- which include social activism views, Steve Daily, and outright rejection.
Also, the descriptions of each view are currently fairly convoluted with plenty of references to books/articles but a lack of clear explanations. Here is what I suggest:
I think that will make for a much higher quality article. Tonicthebrown ( talk) 10:27, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
This quote from the article:
"Only members of the eschatological remnant will be saved through the end-times.[1]"
This creates the impression that only a small number of people will be saved through the end times, however, to be put more accurately, Romans 10 outlines the body of believers who will be saved: "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (v9)" The complete context of Romans 10 is completely clear that the only requirement of salvation is the confession of lordship and belief that God resurrected our Messiah. That's it.. no denominational affiliation mentioned anywhere. There is no argument to be made that you can confess Jesus' lordship over your life and believe in the Resurrection and not be saved.
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||
|
I believe the page is currently slightly too antagonistic. It begins with a more traditional view of the belief, and moves on to a refutation by citing progressive Adventist and non-Adventist views. Instead, it needs to start with a presentation modelled after the fundamental belief. Specifically, the most important part of this belief is that the church believes there will be an end-time group of godly people. After that, more intense debate may follow as to whom that group constitutes. Colin MacLaurin 14:10, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Personally I am unhappy with what I perceive to be a dissonance between standard Adventist teaching, and the presentation given in this article. Standard Adventist teaching is that the remnant of Revelation 12:17 is the Seventh-day Adventist church.
All of these statements identify the Adventist church (that is, the visible organization) precisely with "the remnant" or "the remnant church". By comparison, my feeling is that this article as a whole distances itself from admitting and exploring this identification. As such I think there is a progressive bias, which I would like to try and correct. Tonicthebrown 14:11, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Gerhard F. Hasel wrote an important book on the Remnant which is respected by non-Adventist scholars. It might be worth taking a look at it as a source. Tonicthebrown 13:13, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
I propose a new article, perhaps titled
remnant theology or
remnant (theology), about the theology of the remnant theme in the Bible, within Christianity that is. This present article would be a {{
main}} branch of that one. As I understand, remnant theology has existed in many movements throughout Christendom (or all? I'm not sure). Read one author who surveyed major remnant thinkers and criticised the overemphasis of the concept. Will try to didg it out.
Colin MacLaurin
13:27, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
I've had a bit of a think about this article. As it stands it may give the reader the impression that there are 5 equally notable views about the Remnant. My impression is that there are really only 3 notable positions, or groups of positions: (1) The traditional position (Adventist church = remnant church), (2) The "broad" or "remnant message" position (remnant is an invisible entity which includes all sincere Christians, although the Adventist church may have a unique remnant message), and (3) Liberal positions -- which include social activism views, Steve Daily, and outright rejection.
Also, the descriptions of each view are currently fairly convoluted with plenty of references to books/articles but a lack of clear explanations. Here is what I suggest:
I think that will make for a much higher quality article. Tonicthebrown ( talk) 10:27, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
This quote from the article:
"Only members of the eschatological remnant will be saved through the end-times.[1]"
This creates the impression that only a small number of people will be saved through the end times, however, to be put more accurately, Romans 10 outlines the body of believers who will be saved: "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (v9)" The complete context of Romans 10 is completely clear that the only requirement of salvation is the confession of lordship and belief that God resurrected our Messiah. That's it.. no denominational affiliation mentioned anywhere. There is no argument to be made that you can confess Jesus' lordship over your life and believe in the Resurrection and not be saved.